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View Full Version : How Would a Smoking Ban Effect Pool Rooms?



CueSportTV
01-12-2008, 01:30 PM
Please do not berate me if I am wrong but the way I understand it you can still smoke in Pool rooms over in the USA?

Our government last year banned smoking in public places - for me that is great as I am not a smoker, however it seems to have caused a major downturn in our traditional game of snooker.

My question is what would be the effect on US pool rooms if the same happened?

Link below is a local newspaper article in the UK:
Smoking Ban Affects Snooker Clubs (http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=156582&command=displayConte nt&sourceNode=156408&contentPK=18990431&folderPk=8 7028&pNodeId=156139)

wolfdancer
01-12-2008, 01:57 PM
Not so....it is regulated state by state. I've seen the effects in both California, and Washington, when the ban is enacted....initially business takes a downturn, and eventually rebounds. Some neighborhood bars have failed, but if all the bar had to offer was a free spin on the lung cancer roulette wheel..good riddance. All the ban requires is that a smoker step outside to lite up...as opposed to the old rules that required non-smokers, concerned over the risks to their health to leave the premises.

wolfdancer
01-12-2008, 02:08 PM
smokers fight back:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/smoking_dc

Sid_Vicious
01-12-2008, 02:08 PM
"All the ban requires is that a smoker step outside to lite up...as opposed to the old rules that required non-smokers, concerned over the risks to their health to leave the premises."

Why can't it simply be kept to a personal choice of whether one chooses to even enter a PH or any established smoking joint, instead of mandating a law against it entirely. Where's the free choice in this business oriented country going? If you can't stand the heat(smoke), then get(stay) out of the kitchen(PH.) That is your choice, you can go anywhere you wish where's there is no smoking. Simple...sid

wolfdancer
01-12-2008, 02:28 PM
that seriously limits the choices for non smokers...there were no bars, poolrooms, etc...that banned smoking...and years back you couldn't go to a theater, ride an elevator, travel by bus, train, or airplane, without being subjected to the carcinogenic cloud, that the smokers so kindly blew into your face.
I've had to leave restaurants with my meal unfinished, because some smokers settled in nearby.
If you take into consideration, playing pool in a bar league, then without any smoking regs...non smokers, particularly those allergic to smoking could not participate.
I just don't see the great imposition of stepping outside to smoke, when the trade off is cleaner air to breathe inside.
This has been an ongoing debate here for several years....with neither side yielding on it's position...no sense bringing it back up here. Smokers that feel their rights are being infringed upon should organize and protest to their elected representatives....I doubt though, that they can roll back the clock...

CueSportTV
01-12-2008, 03:06 PM
It was pretty much the same in the UK until the total ban last year. Some pubs banned smoking in advance of this with some success.

However, the total ban has effected much smaller pubs that relied on smokers to drink in the bars and play pool or darts. The same with snooker halls.

The biggest problem here is that a large number of pool rooms and snooker halls are up stairs - I don't know whether it is just smokers but they can't be bothered to go downstairs to go outside to smoke, so instead choose to stay away.

underdog
01-12-2008, 03:34 PM
Why don't we just get completely communist and ban smoking period. Shoot smokers on the spot if caught smoking anywhere! I have been on both sides of the fence and I am all for non-smoking places but it should be up to each individual business. It's prejudice against smokers to make it a LAW. The pool hall I go to put in a VERY good ventilation system that works great. You can actually watch the smoke go straight to the ducts in the ceiling. I can remember when this was a "free" country, can we go back to it?

mantis
01-13-2008, 11:09 AM
No ventilation system ever works that well. A non-smoker will still smell the smoke easily.

A poll on azbilliards suggested that 70% of pool players were non-smokers. Why should they have to be subjected to the few that want to smoke. I personally avoid pool halls and bowling alleys because I can't stand the smoke. The problem does not lye in freedom of one's choice, it lies in the fact that the act of smoking by one person affects all the people around them, regardless of their desire. It seems like a reasonable compromise that you simply go outside for a few minutes if you want to smoke. You can still have your cigarette, but the non-smokers do not HAVE to smell your smoke.

I always here smokers complain about their right to smoke, with no thought about the rights of non-smokers around them. Their argument is, "well just don't comer here then". That makes no sense that something that causes health issues be the winning choice. Also, it infringes on the right for people to work anywhere they want. If I wanted to work in a pool hall, but was allergic to smoke, I would be unable to.

A freedom of choice issue becomes clouded when the issue affects everyone in the area, regardless of their desires. If smoking only affected you, it would then be questionable to stop an individual, but the fact that it affects all in the area, makes it a more difficult issue.

Artemus
01-13-2008, 11:21 AM
Not to get off the smoking issue and hijack the thread, I just read in the paper this morning that certain restaurants are considering a "NO CELLPHONE GABBING" allowed.

I think one may have already started charging a $5 surcharge to the food bill for the right to rattle their mouth on the phone.

wolfdancer
01-13-2008, 11:28 AM
a news item yesterday said that in Fla, thousands of individuals, smokers will be suing the tobacco companies.
AND they made a conscious choice to smoke. They never were concerned about how they were endangering the health of others, but now that their own is affected........
Still can't understand this attitude of..."it's my right to smoke, if you are concerned about your own health issues, even allergic to smoke, just get up and leave...so what if you haven't finished your meal, or the movie isn't over, etc"

Rich R.
01-13-2008, 08:44 PM
I live in Maryland and, up until now, non-smoking bans have been passed on a county by county basis.
In one room where I play, they have been non-smoking for two years. In the beginning, some complained, but not many. Now, everyone is used to it and the smokers just step outside. Even the smokers admit that it is much nicer inside, since the ban. The room is busier than ever.
In another room, closer to my home, the ban is less than a year old, but everything is following the same pattern mentioned above. That room is also busier than ever.
Beginning in February, I believe a state wide smoking ban goes into effect. I don't anticipate any big changes.

Rich R.
01-13-2008, 08:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr>That is your choice, you can go anywhere you wish where's there is no smoking. Simple...sid <hr /></blockquote>
It is also simple for smokers to step outside to smoke.

The majority has changed from smokers to non-smokers. You may as well accept it. It is not going to change and laws will be favoring the non-smokers from now on.

billiards89
01-13-2008, 09:25 PM
i live in nebraska there looking at making a state wide smoking ban this month i would love if it passed because its pretty bad if u cant go play pool 1 night without getting breathing problems and leave smelling like crap. ive went to lincoln to play in the cornhusker state games pool tournament a couple times and its so nice there since they banned smoking in lincoln you can breath and actually see the pool table clear

sack316
01-13-2008, 11:12 PM
a local hall here opened up as a non-smoking alternative to another on the owners had in the same area. Surprisingly it didn't seem to effect the core business of APA members and regulars. They all just went outside, and even some smokers were happy with the lack of that dense fog covering the room. Of course not everybody was happy, but it was not a detriment to the business so far as I could see. But there were often times that there were upwards of 40-50 people outside at any given time!

What I did see it have an impact on was a general bar crowd. Some people that would come in once a week or bi-weekly or so chose to go elsewhere because their priority on a night out was to drink, have fun and smoke, as opposed to pool. Also just the random pop in groups would sometimes immediately leave when they saw it was non smoking. But at the same time a few of these "random" customers would choose the location based solely on the fact that it was the only smoke free bar around.

They have since went back to smoking, as they have gone another direction with their other poolhall. They got this bad-ass filtration system... and I'll agree with whoever said no system works that well.

I'm a smoker, and I found that I can manage either way... as did most of the smokers that frequented the place at the time.

Sack

DSAPOLIS
01-14-2008, 09:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote underdog:</font><hr> Why don't we just get completely communist and ban smoking period. Shoot smokers on the spot if caught smoking anywhere! I have been on both sides of the fence and I am all for non-smoking places but it should be up to each individual business. It's prejudice against smokers to make it a LAW. The pool hall I go to put in a VERY good ventilation system that works great. You can actually watch the smoke go straight to the ducts in the ceiling. I can remember when this was a "free" country, can we go back to it? <hr /></blockquote>

Prejudiced? I don't think its prejudicial at all.

I was a room owner for many years. I owned a room in El Paso Texas when they enacted the smoking bans. As many have said, initially you see a slight downturn in business, but eventually it gets better.

As far the ventilation systems - it increases the power bill - which increases the overhead - therefore the prices go up for smokers and non smokers - a direct result of the actions of only the smokers. Is that fair? I don't think so. I'll be all for your "free country" if my pool hall got "free electricity".

Having recently moved back to Florida, I can't stand to go out to pool rooms anymore BECAUSE OF THE SMOKING. It burns my eyes, stinks up my clothes, my cue case smells like complete $hit now parts of it are stained with a dingy yellow film from the nicotine. Any smoker want to buy me a new case or to have this one cleaned professionally?

I have a history of chronic respiratory ailments, so after an hour I have to leave because I value my life - and yes - I know that smokers won't think twice about that when they light up on the table next to me.

When I or anyone else mentions any of this, we're told by smokers that our health is not at risk due to second hand smoke. We're hit over the head by their "right to smoke". What about my right to breathe clean air?

The motivation behind the defensive statements of the smokers is to justify an addiction that they aren't mentally or physically strong enough to conquer. If that statement rubs some smokers the wrong way, then prove me wrong and quit. If you can quit and stay quit, I'll apologize.

Prejudicial laws? Rights? It goes both ways. It has not been proven that non-smoking is hazardous to my health or to anybody else's. Any takers on debating me on that?

Maybe the smokers enjoy smelling like smoke and nicotine, I don't. Maybe the smokers don't value their life or their health, but I value mine. The smoker's right to smoke ends when my right to not smelling like an ashtray ends.

The smoking bans were put in place because the smoke directly effects the health of the non smokers as well as smokers. I've heard all the arguments from the smokers - and I promise that I will agree with the first smoker that is willing to pay my medical and dry cleaning bills.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MikeM
01-14-2008, 10:20 AM
Sid,

I have always enjoyed reading your posts but this one is poorly thought out and borders on childish.

Where is a non-smoker supposed to play pool? You're saying that there is no place in the pool world for non-smokers. If we don't like to inhale second-hand smoke we just shouldn't play pool.

Thanks a lot. Unfortunately this is the mindset of smoking pool players. I'm going to do whatever I want, wherever and whenever I want and everyone else just has to put up with it or go home. Does this seem fair to you? Where really is my choice? I can quit something I love or endure all of the risk and unpleasantness (and it is horribly unpleasant) of second-hand smoke! Again, thanks for the great choice just so you don't have to walk outside every so often.

Can you see our viewpoint here?

MM

wolfdancer
01-14-2008, 12:09 PM
prophetic line in this tune, "....smoke yourself to death"
web page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIN8MmMloZE)
I always wondered what age would a child have to be, before a smoker thought it ok to blow smoke in his/her face?
1 yr, 5 yr,...or ?????
How old before their lungs are can deal with the assault?

wolfdancer
01-14-2008, 12:10 PM
prophetic line in this tune, "....smoke yourself to death"
web page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIN8MmMloZE)
I always wondered what age would a child have to be, before a smoker thought it ok to blow smoke in his/her face?
1 yr, 5 yr,...or ?????
How old before their lungs can deal with the assault?

SKennedy
01-14-2008, 05:14 PM
I smoked for 12 years, quit for 12, smoked another 12, and have been smoke free for about 10 months or so......just 11 years and 2 months and I can light up again. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I have mixed feelings on ths subject, but bottom line is that the decision to be smoke-free or not should be up to the owner of the establishment. Even when I smoked, I would leave a pool room reeking of smoke much more so than just from smoking myself. I would be happy to step outside and smoke if need be. If you allow smoking, put in a decent air filtration/scrubber system. In the end, let free market take care of itself. I've been told many folks don't go play pool due to smokers in the pool halls. Let free-market decide. I never smoked in a restaurant and like sitting in smoke free areas. If I sat near a smoking area and was bothered by the smoke from the smoking area, I did not go back to that place. The only time though I had to get up and leave a restaurant was because of someone's body odor. Some guy sat near us and he stunk so bad I had to leave.

Rich R.
01-14-2008, 08:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr>I have mixed feelings on ths subject, but bottom line is that the decision to be smoke-free or not should be up to the owner of the establishment. <hr /></blockquote>
The owners have proven that they will not make this decision. They are all afraid of losing business and will not make the tough decision. Others are smokers and don't want to make that decision.
As David said, non-smokers do not jeopardize the health of others. Smokers do. Therefore, for the well being of the majority, laws are being passed to protect everyone. No one is saying that people can't smoke. They are only saying that smokers have to go outside of a public building to smoke. I don't think that is too much to ask.

BTW, I also know the other side of this issue. At one time, I smoked from 3 to 4 packs of cigarettes per day. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

SKennedy
01-14-2008, 09:39 PM
I don't have a problem going outside to smoke (if I still smoked). I always did that at home. And I never smoked in the office.
I just get tired of the government telling us more and more what we can and can't do...

wolfdancer
01-14-2008, 10:21 PM
It's a health issue....in days gone by, if you had TB, you were sent away to an isolation ward, so that you couldn't infect others.
Smokers are spreading the risk of disease as well...
I also thought the government represented the wishes of the majority....and the majority would like to avoid lung cancer, emphysema, etc....AND still have the same access to bars and restaurants that smokers do.
Being subjected to the "mushroom cloud" of cigarette smoke....we might as well share a needle.....

av84fun
01-15-2008, 01:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote underdog:</font><hr> Why don't we just get completely communist and ban smoking period. Shoot smokers on the spot if caught smoking anywhere! I have been on both sides of the fence and I am all for non-smoking places but it should be up to each individual business. It's prejudice against smokers to make it a LAW. The pool hall I go to put in a VERY good ventilation system that works great. You can actually watch the smoke go straight to the ducts in the ceiling. I can remember when this was a "free" country, can we go back to it? <hr /></blockquote>

What you "free choicers" are missing is that the 75% of the population that does not smoke (in Tennessee anyway and I think roughly that around the U.S.) are paying significantly elevated health insurance premiums to pay for lung removals, chemo and rebab bills etc. for the smokers.

Treating cardio-vascular disease can EASILY cost $100,000.00 and up. So banning smoking has the exact same economic merit as, for example, motorcycle helmet laws.

I ride, but I could care less if some idiot incurs brain damage as a result of riding without a helmet. But I DO care about paying my share of the half million dollars or so it might cost to treat the guy for the rest of his life.

Regards,
Jim

SKennedy
01-15-2008, 05:09 PM
I am OK with the smoking ban. I want Wolfie to live another 70+ years!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r
01-15-2008, 06:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I never smoked in a restaurant and like sitting in smoke free areas. If I sat near a smoking area and was bothered by the smoke from the smoking area, I did not go back to that place. <hr /></blockquote> Stating there is a designated smoking zone in a restaurant is like saying there is a dedicated "pee" zone in a swimming pool. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

SKennedy
01-16-2008, 11:12 AM
Last night in league play there were smokers aplenty around me. On the way home, my eyes were tearing from the irritation. However, I did contribute by smoking a cigar. As a former smoker, if I get around a lot of smokers I seem to be able to have a cigar and not crave a cigarette. I'm not sure which was worse last night....the smoke or the extremely loud live head-banging bands that played last night....and the tables were set up in front of the speakers within about 75 feet. It was just a reminder that I'm getting old.....

Cydpkt
01-16-2008, 12:58 PM
I find it funny when the smokers complain about a cigar or pipe but get all up in arms when I complain about the smoke.

SKennedy
01-16-2008, 01:53 PM
Or fart! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BLACKHEART
01-16-2008, 09:44 PM
Illinois passed a smoking ban as of January 1 this year. I pose this question to those who are against the ban. "WOULD YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN OR GRANDCHILDREN TO BE IN THAT SMOKE FILLED ROOM, FOR 8 HOURS". The nonsmokers are &amp; some of them are employees, day in &amp; day out...JER

SKennedy
01-17-2008, 10:40 AM
I don't need convincing...I'm OK with a ban. My city is currently considering a public smoking ban and I spoke with one of the committee members yesterday. A year ago I would have been against it, but I have changed my mind on the subject.

wolfdancer
01-17-2008, 11:13 AM
I was working p.t. at a pool hall when SF was considering a smoking ban. The owner asked myself and his manager (both uf us non-smokers) to go to the meeting at City Hall and speak out against it...how it would hurt small businesses,etc.
The guy ahead of us was a retired USN Thoracic Surgeon, and told of the horrors that he saw...we just turned around and left without speaking.
I'd have liked to have his testimony in text, for a reply to the next guy that likens a smoking ban to an infringement on his "rights"
But no post against smoking wouldn't be fair unless one gave a link to the other side:
web page (http://www.vikarsrant.com/Smoking.htm)
Quote:
"George Burns smoked cigars almost everyday of his adult life and lived to be 100 years old. Adolph Hitler said no one should smoke in his presence. Who are you going to listen to - George Burns or Adolph Hitler?"

ARJ
01-17-2008, 07:05 PM
Ok, my turn. For about, I don't know, the 300th time I quit again, this time on Christmas and I'm doing well. RichR was and continues to be wonderful in my quest to clean up my act so to speak. At any rate, I haven't been to a pool room but once and that was a couple days ago to meet an old friend, a chance I just couldn't pass up no matter the tempatation. When I left the room after having a marvelous time for the first time ever I realized what it must be like for a non-smoker leaving a pool room in Florida, my clothes, my car just reeked. Even as a smoker I prayed for the day that my state banned smoking in pool rooms and bars because I thought that was the only way I could quit. Then I realized though I'd basically quit playing pool I'd never quit smoking, oops /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'd like to take the opportunity to apologize to everyone I've irritated over the last 15 years from smoking in pool rooms and lord willing I'll stay quit this time. However, every other way I've irratated you, sorry, ain't quitting that /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ARJ~~~won't begrudge either side on this one because I understand both points completely

Rich R.
01-18-2008, 05:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ARJ:</font><hr> I'd like to take the opportunity to apologize to everyone I've irritated over the last 15 years from smoking in pool rooms and lord willing I'll stay quit this time. However, every other way I've irratated you, sorry, ain't quitting that /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif<hr /></blockquote>
Now that you've gone totally public, you better stay a none smoker. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SKennedy
01-18-2008, 07:57 AM
Put on a jacket this morning that I last wore Tuesday night at league play. It still reeks of cigarette smoke!

And wolf, while those "horror" stories work on most same people, as they should, I knew 2 pulmonary doctors that smoked. I also remember seeing a woman lying in a hospital bed (yes, this was years ago and likely in a rural area) and smoking through her trachea.

I'm thrilled that I was able to quit this last time and hope I never have the need to "quit" again. Chantrix is great stuff.

Bambu
01-20-2008, 05:43 PM
I think its a crime to tell a business owner of any kind, what he can and cant do in his own place. Smoking is not a crime, so stop treating smokers like criminals. What ever happened to free rights? And who is the government to tell us what to do inside our own establishments?
This topic should be controversial enough, that owners themselves would be similarly divided on this issue. Its all a matter of supply and demand. Why would non-smokers care if smoking rooms existed, provided they could readily get non smoking service if they wanted it? To tell me that I cant smoke in my own bar, is simply just not right. I certainly would not question the rules you decide on in your own room. If I dont like them of course, I go someplace else.

Stonedviper
01-20-2008, 06:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> "All the ban requires is that a smoker step outside to lite up...as opposed to the old rules that required non-smokers, concerned over the risks to their health to leave the premises."

Why can't it simply be kept to a personal choice of whether one chooses to even enter a PH or any established smoking joint, instead of mandating a law against it entirely. Where's the free choice in this business oriented country going? If you can't stand the heat(smoke), then get(stay) out of the kitchen(PH.) That is your choice, you can go anywhere you wish where's there is no smoking. Simple...sid
<hr /></blockquote>

After a few drinks i sometimes like to whip out my thing and just take a leak right there next to the table i'm playing on. Whats wrong with that? not like my piss will give you cancer or anything, you don't like the smell you can just leave and go play elsewhere.

They wouldn't let you toss out cans of tear gas in the room, so why toxic cigarette smoke?

I can bet you most bar, restaurant or any enclosed place where people have to be in to make a living are happy when their state (or province for canadians) puts in a smoking ban. Employees get to work without being subjected to someone elses choice to smoke (i guess if they aren't happy they should go find another job right?)

Like a previous poster said, at the beginning smokers will bitch and whine, business will go down for a bit (might even go up by now attracting non-smokers who wouldn't have went before) but after a period the smoker will go back.

Use to be the non-smoker had to make a choice to go or not, now the choice has to be made by the party who's actually doing something that can do longterm harm to themselves and others. Sounds to me that the new way is the right way.

AnitoKid
01-20-2008, 06:31 PM
Back here in the Philippines, Puyat Sports designated a specific area of the pool room as a smoking room - no smoking is permitted outside this area. It's like a lounge of sort, with stools and a countertop. The air-conditioned room also has an exhaust built inside it. Initially, smokers had difficulty adjusting to the new rules. But in the end, the players adjusted.

What is interesting is the effect of live tournament coverages on TV. Whenever a pool player from the Philippines win in a major competition, one would suddenly see that all 21 tables at the pool hall are occupied till almost closing time. I guess the win and such inspire pool players, especially the newkids. And i kid you not! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

.

Heretic
01-23-2008, 03:53 PM
I have been a bouncer in a few bars, and I am a non smoker. I was against the smoking bans at first (because of the free choice issue), but I do prefer being in non smoking establishments. I always hated the smokers that had to light up, then get close to talk to you, or smoke while shooting, and drop ashes on the table.
I live in California, where there is a smoking ban, and I have to say, I have seen a significant improvement in the conditions since the ban has been in effect.

spaur
01-23-2008, 04:28 PM
The pool hall I go to all the time is now smoke-free because of the new city law. In Memphis if you allow people under 21 to enter your establishment, it must be smoke free.

I thought it was stupid at first and the owner was going to lose money for deciding to let under 21 in and be smoke-free. Luckily there is a smoking patio outside, it's just not very pleasant in really cold or hot weather. We smokers just have to deal.

I started to think about it and deciding to let under 21 in was actually a good decision on his part. Since most of the other pool halls here have decided to allow smoking, there's nowhere for younger people to go play. If you really think about it, the younger people are the future of the sport..

Of course, the owner being able to accomodate for the smokers instead of forcing us to literally go outside of the building to smoke helps keep his smokers coming back.

jingle
01-23-2008, 04:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DSAPOLIS:</font><hr>

Prejudiced? I don't think its prejudicial at all.

I was a room owner for many years. I owned a room in El Paso Texas when they enacted the smoking bans. As many have said, initially you see a slight downturn in business, but eventually it gets better.

As far the ventilation systems - it increases the power bill - which increases the overhead - therefore the prices go up for smokers and non smokers - a direct result of the actions of only the smokers. Is that fair? I don't think so. I'll be all for your "free country" if my pool hall got "free electricity".

Having recently moved back to Florida, I can't stand to go out to pool rooms anymore BECAUSE OF THE SMOKING. It burns my eyes, stinks up my clothes, my cue case smells like complete $hit now parts of it are stained with a dingy yellow film from the nicotine. Any smoker want to buy me a new case or to have this one cleaned professionally?

I have a history of chronic respiratory ailments, so after an hour I have to leave because I value my life - and yes - I know that smokers won't think twice about that when they light up on the table next to me.

When I or anyone else mentions any of this, we're told by smokers that our health is not at risk due to second hand smoke. We're hit over the head by their "right to smoke". What about my right to breathe clean air?

The motivation behind the defensive statements of the smokers is to justify an addiction that they aren't mentally or physically strong enough to conquer. If that statement rubs some smokers the wrong way, then prove me wrong and quit. If you can quit and stay quit, I'll apologize.

Prejudicial laws? Rights? It goes both ways. It has not been proven that non-smoking is hazardous to my health or to anybody else's. Any takers on debating me on that?

Maybe the smokers enjoy smelling like smoke and nicotine, I don't. Maybe the smokers don't value their life or their health, but I value mine. The smoker's right to smoke ends when my right to not smelling like an ashtray ends.

The smoking bans were put in place because the smoke directly effects the health of the non smokers as well as smokers. I've heard all the arguments from the smokers - and I promise that I will agree with the first smoker that is willing to pay my medical and dry cleaning bills.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

That's an awesome post Blackjack, I agree 100%!

I will add a little about my situation specifically. My wife is a former smoker, but now when she goes into any place where smoking is allowed it will offen trigger her to get a sinus infection. Therefore, she trys to avoid such places. When she can't/won't go with me, I don't get to go as often (you married guys should know how this works). Bottom line is, if Iowa had a smoking ban I'd probably get to play in more tourneys/leagues because my wife could go with me.

CarolNYC
01-23-2008, 06:54 PM
I am a smoker and congratulate all who quit!
I also have RESPECT for people who dont smoke-and there lies the problem-RESPECT for others-I dont like the smell of smoke when I eat or even an ashtray on the table-I dont think anyone should smoke around children,they should be knocked out just for the hell of it!
NY was one of the first to ban smoking,but,I also believe if your going to ban something-then,ban it completely-make cigarettes illegal,and, that'll be the day-
NY pack 7.00
Delaware 2.40-3.00
Some tax in NY,huh?

[ QUOTE ]
And wolf, while those "horror" stories work on most same people, as they should, I knew 2 pulmonary doctors that smoked. I also remember seeing a woman lying in a hospital bed (yes, this was years ago and likely in a rural area) and smoking through her trachea <hr /></blockquote>
There's a commercial here with a guy with one leg stating because he smoked-well, they investigated for some reason and the guy STILL smokes!
Carol

SKennedy
01-24-2008, 10:43 AM
Showing all the terrible and nasty medical results from smoking just seems to never work well as a deterrent to smoking. The main reason I quit? I got tired of a substance, in this case nicotine, having control over me. I would smoke about every hour or 1 1/2 hours. It was difficult to go 2 hours without a cigarette, and if I needed to go much longer than 2 hours, then I was ready to kill someone. So, I planned everything I did pretty much around having the ability to smoke at least every 2 hours.
When I smoked, I was always courteous about others that may be around me who did not smoke. I generally did not smoke inside...always outside and well away from others. I did smoke in the pool halls, but that was because my contribution did not appear to be signficant.
I'm very glad I quit, but this issue of public smoking is not an easy one to decide. My town is currently considering and will likely approve a public smoking ban very soon. It will be interesting to see how things turn out in the end. I don't really have a problem with a ban, even if I still smoked, but my concern is that one day someone will start telling me what I can or cannot eat, etc. (My wife is trying to do that now.....)

wolfdancer
01-24-2008, 11:21 AM
I think cigarettes are just small WMDs.
Even Patrick Reynolds has spoken out against smoking, against his own company.
"....Tell St. Peter at the Golden Gate That you hate to make him wait, But you just gotta have another cigarette."

CarolNYC
01-24-2008, 12:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
against his own company.
<hr /></blockquote>
But he still makes them /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Tell St. Peter at the Golden Gate That you hate to make him wait, But you just gotta have another cigarette."<hr /></blockquote>
I know,Jack-just like anyother addiction-"you have to WANT TO QUIT!" One Day! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Carol

CarolNYC
01-24-2008, 12:25 PM
good job-immense willpower!
In Hawaii, you have to be 20 ft. away from any building

[ QUOTE ]
but my concern is that one day someone will start telling me what I can or cannot eat, etc. (My wife is trying to do that now.....) <hr /></blockquote>
/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Carol

tedmauro
01-24-2008, 03:01 PM
We have had a law against public smoking for a while here in Colorado. The players that smoke are still complaining. A couple bars don't care about the ban and smoke anyway. They lie to the police when they are called.

In the pool rooms that do follow the law there is complaining. I noticed the smokers being outside slows down league play. It drives me nuts when someone is outside smoking when they are up on the table.

There are a couple of players that go out between shots. This one really gets me ticked off.

Ted

SKennedy
01-24-2008, 04:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tedmauro:</font><hr> We have had a law against public smoking for a while here in Colorado. The players that smoke are still complaining. A couple bars don't care about the ban and smoke anyway. They lie to the police when they are called.

In the pool rooms that do follow the law there is complaining. I noticed the smokers being outside slows down league play. It drives me nuts when someone is outside smoking when they are up on the table.

There are a couple of players that go out between shots. This one really gets me ticked off.

Ted <hr /></blockquote>

I was in Durango year before last and lit up, unaware of the ban. I was informed very quickly....and immediately went outside to finish.
As for league play....that's pretty selfish to step outside during your match to light up. Sounds like a forfeit brewing to me. If you need a smoke that bad, then either win them all or lose them all quickly and be done with it. But I'd never want you as a teammate.

CarolNYC
01-24-2008, 04:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I noticed the smokers being outside slows down league play. It drives me nuts when someone is outside smoking when they are up on the table.

<hr /></blockquote>
Hi Ted,

Thats outrageous-perhaps the league director should enforce a rule for one 5 minute time out during play
Someone mentioned a player playing with a cigarette in his mouth-that use to disgust me and leaving a burning cigarette on the rail-Oh my goodness!
Carol

tedmauro
01-25-2008, 03:06 PM
Yes Carol it is bad.
Last night during league we waited about 5 minutes for an older gentleman to smoke and then he used the restroom. This was all during the time when his match was ready to play. The guy playing him was on my team and he broke and ran on the old dude. That's what he gets for holding up the match.

tedmauro
01-25-2008, 05:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote tedmauro:</font><hr> We have had a law against public smoking for a while here in Colorado. The players that smoke are still complaining. A couple bars don't care about the ban and smoke anyway. They lie to the police when they are called.

In the pool rooms that do follow the law there is complaining. I noticed the smokers being outside slows down league play. It drives me nuts when someone is outside smoking when they are up on the table.

There are a couple of players that go out between shots. This one really gets me ticked off.

Ted <hr /></blockquote>

I was in Durango year before last and lit up, unaware of the ban. I was informed very quickly....and immediately went outside to finish.
As for league play....that's pretty selfish to step outside during your match to light up. Sounds like a forfeit brewing to me. If you need a smoke that bad, then either win them all or lose them all quickly and be done with it. But I'd never want you as a teammate. <hr /></blockquote>

Here Here. Sometimes the matches are lasting until 1:00 in the morning.

CarolNYC
01-25-2008, 05:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
ran on the old dude. That's what he gets for holding up the match. <hr /></blockquote>
Yep!

Stonedviper
01-25-2008, 07:48 PM
Big difference between smoking and eating. A person can eat 2 pounds of dog crap and it will probably make them ill, but it won't affect me, a smoker lighting up not only makes him more likely to get sick but me also and thats just not right.

I know smokers are hard headed people, my mother is a smoker. When i was younger i kept asking her to stop smoking "mom it's not good for you, i don't want you to get sick". She never listened always came back with some stupid reply like "Doctor says my lungs are fine dear". It is now 20yrs later, her lungs are down to 25-30% capacity she can't walk 15 feet without gasping for air, she's almost died 3 times in the last 2 years because her lungs can't handle her getting a common cold and she spent weeks with tubes down her throat breathing for her, but guess what she keeps defending the cigarettes saying they're not what killed her lungs, it's either bad genes from her parents or some other thing that gets blamed but no way is it the smokes in her mind.

My father quit some 20 or so years ago for 2 reasons, his doctor told him that if he didn't stop he'd be dragging an oxygen tank around within 10yrs and because he felt foolish hiding behind his desk or in the bathroom to smoke like some 14yr old in high school when he was in his 40's.

CarolNYC
01-26-2008, 07:32 AM
Hi,
Im sorry about your Mom-that must be hard and frustrating for you-
In our "social group" we had people who did all kinds of things-one friend did NOTHING-(drink,amoke,drugs)we were all devastated when HE died of Leukemia

Because Im used to no smoking in buildings,I do find it irritating if I go to another state and Im eating and someone will walk into the "SMOKING" section,which is in the SAME ROOM, 5 tables over-like,whats up with that?
Then one time in Virginia, I went outside a Dennys to smoke and the waitress actually came out and told me I could smoke inside and I just said,"no thank you!"
Im so use to going outside that no matter where I am, I just go outside /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Congratulations to your Dad!
Take care!
Carol

mantis
01-26-2008, 11:44 AM
I would suggest that it is extremely rude to step outsied during your own match to smoke. I live in Illinois where our smoking ban just came into effect on Jan 1 (thank God). I think pool leagues should make a rule stating forfeit occurs if the player leaves the table for more than a certain amount of time.

9baller
02-07-2008, 06:27 PM
first off,a seperate smoking and non smoking section would work fine enough for any poolhall or bar,or resturant.

even with that,you get people saying how bad it is still to thier health,which is like saying that the person firing a gun is more at a health risk from the gun smoke then the person getting shot!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

i personly think that every smoker sould boycott any bisness that does not allow smoking,as well as all smokers going on a tax strike,seeing as we are allready paying tax for everybody else already,as the non smokers sit back and enjoy thier tax breaks that are made possible because smokers are paying the tax`es for them.which is actually nothing but stealing on the goverments part.just like the insane amount of money the large tobacco companys were fined.this is stealing and a major crime in the worst sense,cause it was not only the biggest THEFT in the history of the world,but it was done by curupt officals that totally abused thier power,plain and simple.
they are constantly raiseing cigarette taxs to pay for things for children and so fourth,well i must ask this,what the hell does me smoking have to do with extra activitys for kids? i think its great for having things for kids to do to help keep them out of trouble,but why the hell sould i,and other smokers,have to be the ones paying for it,while the parents are getting tax breaks left and right!!??
i do not have any children,so why sould i be paying for them? dont they say thier doing everything posible to keep kids from smoking? so what right do they have stealing my hard earned money for thier activitys??? if they want to raise money for things like that,thats fine.but get the money by taxing the people that these activity`s are actually for,the parents!! tax toys and childrens clothing,and stuff like that,not me!!

and all these non smokers out there making these statements,which are actully proven false to the most degree,about how my second hand smoke is dangerous to thier healt,i must ask them,seeing as your so health conserned about your air qulity and others,i,mm sure you never even think about driving a car,right? seeing as thats thousands times worse for every single driver? heck,car fumes are known to kill people in just a few minutes,how many times have you heard of someone dropping dead because they had to be around a smoker for a few minutes?? and for that matter,i,mm sure none of them use any paper products at all,right?? after all,paper and would products have to be made from tree`s at first (before they can be recylced) so there for by useing any of these products they are harming the tree population,which helps myself and everybody breath.so if these people are so gung ho on preserveing air qulity,what the hell gives them the right to use these products which in turn endangers my health by harming the air qulity?
i guess air qulity issues are only important when it suites THIER needs and wants

Rich R.
02-07-2008, 07:00 PM
9baller, since you are so worried about your cigarette tax money going for things that do not affect you, how about telling Congress to stop using non-smoker's taxes to subsidize tobacco farmers. If you think cigarettes are expensive now, wait until the subsidies stop and watch the price skyrocket.

wolfdancer
02-07-2008, 08:14 PM
"....and all these non smokers out there making these statements,which are actully proven false to the most degree,about how my second hand smoke is dangerous to thier healt"
(they don't have spell checkers for smokers?)

You should report your findings to the Surgeon General's office, as it seems they have a different take on the issue
web page (http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/factsheets/factsheet9.html)
Two other sites report carcinogens from tobacco smoke can be passed on to a developing fetus., and that it has also been discovered in a baby's urine.
Since the costs of the consequences of smoke related lung diseases, is shared by non smokers....they ought to double the tax against these "public health threat" air polluting smokers.
Your reasonings for allowing unregulated smoking..have to be the poorest thought out, that I have ever read..
car exhausts (which is what cigarette smokes smells like to be), trees cut down (for cigarette paper, maybe?)
"One flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"?
THEFT????? what's your **** money compared to someone's life stolen by inconsiderate smokers?

9baller
02-07-2008, 08:33 PM
no offense,but you are talking like there is a small room packed with pregnent wemon and kids and smokers that are smoking non stop for years at a time,which in no way said.
my first response was it sould be regulated and seperated.
as far as the facts i pointed out,not only are they not poor,but actully very inteligent if anyone actully thinks about it.

as far as all these so called health reports about second hand smoke,it already,many times,has been admitted that they are GREATLY exagerated by the very people that make those claims.

and yes,it was/is the bigest theft in history to the point were the judge that ruled it sould be in prison

CueSportTV
02-11-2008, 06:22 AM
Wasn't quit sure that my original post would spark (no pun intended) such debate.

I hated it in the past when I came out of a snooker hall and stank of stale smoke, I also played far worse - can't really blame the smoke for that without scientific evidence but hey!

9baller
02-11-2008, 10:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
how about telling Congress to stop using non-smoker's taxes to subsidize tobacco farmers. <hr /></blockquote>
i do not know about this issue,but i,dd be happy to learn what it means if you can fill me in.
it just bugs the hell out of me all the money they take in form of cig tax,and most of it is the state,not goverment,thats way the difference in price is so great state to state.but any way,thats just a big pevve i have,i hope we all can have an honest debate about this or anything in a mature level (not saying anyone here has not) becuase i come here to learn about this great game on a higher level from you more exspeireanced player`s,and i certainly dont want to make any enemys with potenial friends over a silly debate that does not even really have (to much) to do with pool.
and with this or any debate,i,mm more then man enough to except when i,mm wrong about something when someone shows me the true facts,heck,i know i,mm not the brightest light bulb in the box /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

so with that being said,i certainly hope there`s no hard feelings with anyone /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Rich R.
02-11-2008, 08:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr>how about telling Congress to stop using non-smoker's taxes to subsidize tobacco farmers. <hr /></blockquote>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9baller:</font><hr>i do not know about this issue,but i,dd be happy to learn what it means if you can fill me in. <hr /></blockquote>
The Federal government has been paying tobacco farmers a subsidy so they can afford to grow tobacco. Otherwise, they could not make a profit growing tobacco. Also, if I understand the situation correctly, once land is used to grow tobacco, it is not good for growing food crops. I may be wrong on this point, but I don't think so.

This has been going on for decades. If no subsidy was paid, the price of all tobacco products would sky rocket. The taxes you are paying now would be the least of your problems.

My tax money, and the tax money of many other non-smokers, has been going to support your habit. Now, you have the nerve to tell us we can't ask you to step out side to smoke.

cue_z
02-25-2008, 03:31 PM
I like your comments, they make sense!!!
I live in NH where smoking is banned. It hasn't affected business in the places I go to. Most owners I talk to said they prefer the government ban that way the customers can't blame them....they blame the government. Works for me!!!

I also smoked for a number of years....been smoke free for 12 years!!