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Drop1
01-16-2008, 07:46 PM
Hilary is tough...Bill Clinton is tough...but,Hillary ClintonWhy on earth would we choose to put the Clinton family drama at the center of our politics again?
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, Jan. 14, 2008, at 12:15 PM ET

Also in Slate, John Dickerson details the "distractions" the Clinton team is creating for itself, and Timothy Noah argues that she's not the experience candidate.
Hillary Clinton. Click image to expand.Hillary Clinton

Seeing the name Hillary in a headline last week—a headline about a life that had involved real achievement—I felt a mouse stirring in the attic of my memory. Eventually, I was able to recall how the two Hillarys had once been mentionable in the same breath. On a first-lady goodwill tour of Asia in April 1995—the kind of banal trip that she now claims as part of her foreign-policy "experience"—Mrs. Clinton had been in Nepal and been briefly introduced to the late Sir Edmund Hillary, conqueror of Mount Everest. Ever ready to milk the moment, she announced that her mother had actually named her for this famous and intrepid explorer. The claim "worked" well enough to be repeated at other stops and even showed up in Bill Clinton's memoirs almost a decade later, as one more instance of the gutsy tradition that undergirds the junior senator from New York.

Sen. Clinton was born in 1947, and Sir Edmund Hillary and his partner Tenzing Norgay did not ascend Mount Everest until 1953, so the story was self-evidently untrue and eventually yielded to fact-checking. Indeed, a spokeswoman for Sen. Clinton named Jennifer Hanley phrased it like this in a statement in October 2006, conceding that the tale was untrue but nonetheless charming: "It was a sweet family story her mother shared to inspire greatness in her daughter, to great results I might add."

Perfect. It worked, in other words, having been coined long after Sir Edmund became a bankable celebrity, but now its usefulness is exhausted and its untruth can safely be blamed on Mummy. Yet isn't it all—all of it, every single episode and detail of the Clinton saga—exactly like that? And isn't some of it a little bit more serious? For Sen. Clinton, something is true if it validates the myth of her striving and her "greatness" (her overweening ambition in other words) and only ceases to be true when it no longer serves that limitless purpose. And we are all supposed to applaud the skill and the bare-faced bravado with which this is done. In the New Hampshire primary in 1992, she knowingly lied about her husband's uncontainable sex life and put him eternally in her debt. This is now thought of, and referred to in print, purely as a smart move on her part. In the Iowa caucuses of 2008, he returns the favor by telling a huge lie about his own record on the war in Iraq, falsely asserting that he was opposed to the intervention from the very start. This is thought of, and referred to in print, as purely a tactical mistake on his part: trying too hard to help the spouse. The happy couple has now united on an equally mendacious account of what they thought about Iraq and when they thought it. What would it take to break this cheap little spell and make us wake up and inquire what on earth we are doing when we make the Clinton family drama—yet again—a central part of our own politics?
Come time to vote, we will have a choice between the Democratic Socialist Party,and the Republican Socialist Party.

sack316
01-16-2008, 11:19 PM
heard a good joke on Leno tonight:

Q. What does Bill say to Hilary after sex?

A. "I'll be home in twenty minutes"

Sack

Deeman3
01-17-2008, 09:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> Come time to vote, we will have a choice between the Democratic Socialist Party,and the Republican Socialist Party. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> How true. Not much choice and either will be poor but probably about what we deserve. </font color>

Gayle in MD
01-17-2008, 11:18 AM
I think it is interesting that women, Hillary, to be specific, are accused of being opportunists, for being ambitious, while in men, the same trait is described as being a drive for success,. or as being successful. There really isn't a single arrow aimed at Hillary in this article that couldn't be said of every single one of the men running for the presidency. did McCain not capitalize on his horrible experience as a POW? Did Guiliani not capitalize on his walk through Ner York, holding the mask in front of his face? Did romney not capitalize on his family's history in government? Didn't Bush? Didn't Bush Sr? Thompson isn't capitalizing on his television role?

It's ridiculous, IMO, for the author to completely ignore the difficulty women in Hillary's generation faced to achieve what she did achieve in her youth, compared to the young women of today, or the men of yesterday, things for quite different for those women, of those times.

The fact is that women, still do not get equal pay for doing the same jobs performed by men. No question, that women have been the most oppressed group, of any group in history, or that black men were allowed to vote, before any women were allowed to vote.

I have ten times the respect for any woman, back in Hillary's time of young adulthood, for making the achievements which she made. We'll never hear stories about Bush, Cheney, Barack, or many others, (In fact I can't think of a single other candidate, or President, for that matter) having been Valedictorians of their class, that's for sure. The statistics on female entrants accepted to Law School, in that era, are probably still available.

Also, I might add, that Mickey Edwards, a Republican, who held a number of very high positions in Reagans' administration, many in foreign affairs, stated recently on C-Span, during a question and answer session, when asked which candidate had the best plan for Iraq, and I quote...

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I think the person who...God, they're never going to forgive me for saying this...I think the person whose view is most accurate, in terms of what's the proper, prudent thing to do, is Hillary Clinton. <hr /></blockquote>

I think that all the candidates pander, use rhetoric, tell stories that put them in the best light, play favors with certain of their contributors, basically, I could say that about any of them, but you may be sure that both men and women, in the press, resent Hillary Clinton for her accomplishments, and it certainly shows in the different ways they report on the candidates.

Imagine, if Hillary had said she wanted to change the Constitution, for example, OMG, they'd be running it non stop, or if she had said we should stay in Iraq for a hundred years, but tell me, how many reporters have you heard report that Huckabee smashed all the computers in the Governors offices right before he left? How many have discussed Romney's father being a lobbyist, or his tying the family dog on the roof of the car in the cold, and driving 800 miles, till the poor dog, fouled the whole side of the car? How many times did they ask George Bush about cocaine, his insider trading, his drinking and driving record, few, but when they did, he simply refused to answer the question. How many times have they asked Guiliani about refusing to heed warnings, to not put the security command center in the basement of the WTC? Or his unfaithfulness to all of his wives?

If there is one thing I've learned from this campaign, it is that in spite of the fact, to me atleast, that only one viable candidate, Hillary Clinton, has demonstrated the quickness of mind, the best plan for Iraq, the full command of the issues, the best most efficiently operated campaign, and by far, the most impressive in a debate, far more able to think on her feet than any other candidate, on either side, the most thorough explanations of her policy plans. Yet, she will continue to be bashed far beyond anything we will see aimed at any other candidate. My view is that much of it lies in the nasty little secret, that many men still can't stand the idea of a woman in our White House, and that the right hates this woman beyond anything else on our national horrizon. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif including terrorists.

We should all research, rather than allowing the infotainment that passes for news these days, to sway us in any way. We should study, and learn about our candidates, instead of allowing the press, left or right, to lead us in any way to our decisions, at such a critical time.

The fact that I refer to 28% of our Republicans as sheep, btw, is not aimed at all Republicans, but is aimed at those Republican Representatives who failed to perform their duties while serving under George Bush, and those who voted for bush twice, even after his lies became public. My view is grounded in having read so many posts filled with so called facts, which are truly nothing but right wing media myth. We cannot afford to rely on the press. Only live C-Span, Government links to documentation, and books, written by respected journalists, documentarians, and former whistleblowers, should be relied upon for accurate material from which to draw our own conclusions. the records of our Representatives are researchable. It just takes a little bit of time, but this is surely the time, to do so.

That Hillary Clinton did strive for greatness, is a fact which can be proven. The fact that she has managed to come so far in her life, is certainly illustrated by her credible campaign, as a credible candidate for the presidency. The fact that she was extremely active in our domestic and foreign affairs, is undeniable, as is her work ethic. No wonder the right hates her. they do not have a single candidate that can match her intellect, work ethic, and ability to overshadow her peers in every debate. Instead, her comments are twisted, and blown out of proportion. It's really a shame, regardless of which person if your favorite, or which party is your party, no woman with her credentials, should be discriminated against to this degree, in our country.

Martin Luther King, in fact, did not have the power to pass legislation. Without President Johnson's determination to forward President Kennedy's policies on ending discrimination in this country, such strides could never have been accomplished at that time. Those women who stand for women's rights, or even dare to stand for their convictions, are called everything in the book, mostly a word beginning with a B and I'm sure we all know the word.

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
01-17-2008, 06:38 PM
I think it's interesting that someone would jump to Hillary's defense over the perception that she is opportunistic...particularly when her camp accused her opponent of the same thing because he said in kindergarden that he wanted to be president! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Steve

LWW
01-18-2008, 04:11 AM
I find it fascinating that someone would hold up, as a defender of the USC, someone who wants to take America from a nation of individual freedom to one of collectivism ... as specified by her ChiCom paymasters I imagine ... and, NO, the MSM didn't utter a peep.

LWW

Deeman3
01-18-2008, 08:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I think it is interesting that women, Hillary, to be specific, are accused of being opportunists, for being ambitious, while in men, the same trait is described as being a drive for success,. or as being successful. Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Opportunist? Naw, just because she was liberated enough to ride Bill's coattails, smash the reputations of his women accusers and claim that 8 years as the First lady is relavent experience, along with the convienence of finding NY as her new home for Senate duties....Naw.... </font color>

Gayle in MD
01-18-2008, 12:37 PM
I don't put much credence in the ramblings of misogynists, Deeman.

Hillary Clinton distinguished herself long before she ran into Bill Clinton. Suffice it to say, Bill Clinton left office with a 65% approval rating, and all politicians are opportunists, that's how Bush Jr., and Sr., got into office, only in Jr.'s case, he had never even been outside the country, and spent his adult life snorting coke, and drunk driving. None of the Republican Candidates can light a candle to Hillary's achievements. I don't think there's a Valedictorian among them.

If you want a good look at opportunists, any White House photo taken during the last seven years, will surely provide it.

Gayle in Md.
So Proud To Never Have Voted For George Bush! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

LWW
01-18-2008, 12:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>Hillary Clinton distinguished herself long before she ran into Bill Clinton.

Gayle in Md.
So Proud To Never Have Voted For George Bush! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif<hr /></blockquote>
Really?

How did she do this?

LWW

LWW
01-18-2008, 12:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>spent his adult life snorting coke

Gayle in Md.
So Proud To Never Have Voted For George Bush! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif<hr /></blockquote>
Really?

Anything to support that?

I didn't think so.

Now, what about Roger Clinton and his drug convictions and his claiming to be selling pardons thru his brother?

Well, it was his brother. How about Dan Lassiter, Willie's first atty, who was pardoned by WJC for a cocaine conviction?

Well, that wasn't quite him either. How about the eyewitness testimony of Willie snorting up in the Governor's Mansion?

Does any of that bother you sweetheart?

LWW &lt;---Proudly offsetting Gayle's vote since 1980. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Gayle in MD
01-18-2008, 01:41 PM
Her Camp? Although you have no proof of any kind that Hillary had anything at all to do with that, I'm quite sure, a supremo misogynist such as yourself, and Deeman, will continue with your Hillary Rants, which have no credibility with me, given your posts, both past and present.

Deeman's statements are reminicent of many other MEN in the mdeia, Chris Mathews, for example, who has tied up the MSNBC switchboards for days, using the same misogynist styled statements against Hillary Clinton.

Since all three of the major Women's organizations have spoken out against his statements, I don't have to rely on my own perceptions of the two of youm suffice it to say, that your sentiments, and lies, have already been addressed by the women of this country, who do not walk ten steps behind their men. I will include proof in this post, but before I do, I might add, that any men who begins a sentence with...."When a woman spreads her legs... as you have done, here, and with no apology following, has exposed his misogynistic beliefs, along with his ignorance, to both women, and men.

If you were speaking in public, the way both you and Deeman write on this forum, about women, you would be called out for your ignorance, and shown up for what you both are in fact.

Atleast Chris Mathews made some effort, although far from enough, to apologize for his own misogynistic statements. Nothing like that would follow anything either you or Deeman would vomit onto this forum.


The Apology of Chris Mathews, long overdue.


Under pressure from feminist groups and his own bosses at MSNBC, Chris Matthews apologized yesterday for remarks about Hillary Clinton that he now admits sounded "nasty."
For 10 days, the "Hardball" host had doggedly insisted he was just reciting a bit of history when he said on the air that "the reason she's a U.S. senator, the reason she's a candidate for president, the reason she may be a front-runner is her husband messed around."

But protests against those and other remarks by Matthews reached a peak yesterday when the presidents of such groups as the National Organization for Women, Feminist Majority and National Women's Political Caucus sent a joint letter of complaint to NBC News President Steve Capus.


MATTHEWS: We might soon have the first woman president, the first african-american president or a man older than we've ever elected before. And, of course, we always treat things here with hope, our uniquely American hope that we can actually make things better. That we can make the greatest of countries, not only survive, but as William Faulkner said, prevail.
In the midst of talking about this, almost always without a script and almost always on tricky subjects of gender and race and right and left and what is in our country's interest and who I think is telling the truth and who I think isn't, I know I'm dealing with sensitive feelings. I've accepted all of this as part of the business I've chosen. This program, I'm proud to say is tough, fearless, and, yes, blunt. I want people to react when I say something. I don't like saying things so carefully and so politically correctly that no one thinks they've said anything.

What I've always counted on in all the wild, speeded up conversations on Hardball and elsewhere on television, is my good heart. I've always felt that no matter how tough I got, how direct, how provocative, how purposefully provocative, people out there watching would know I'm not out against them. It was them I was rooting for. While I was tough on individuals who sought to lead the country, I was not against the hopes we all have for a fair shake. In fact, a better deal for people who have been held back before we came along.

Some people I respect, politically concerned people like you who watch the show so faithfully every night, people who care about this country think I've been disrespectful for Hillary Clinton, not as a candidate, but as a woman. They point to something I said on MSNBC's Morning Joe the morning after the New Hampshire primary, that her election to the U.S. Senate and all that's come since was a result of her toughness, but also the sympathy for her because her husband embarrassed her by the conduct that led to his impeachment. The words I used were "messed around."

The truth, of course finer, smarter, larger than that. Yes, Hillary Clinton won tremendous respect from the country for the way she handled the difficult months in 1998. Her public approval numbers spiked from the mid-40s up to the 70s in one poll I looked at. Why? Because she stuck to her duty. She performed strongly as First Lady. She did such a wow of a job campaigning for Senate candidates, especially Chuck Schumer of New York, that she was urged to run for a Senate seat there herself. She might have well gotten that far by another route and through different circumstances, but this is how it happened. The rest is history.
How Hillary went up to New York, listened to people's concerns and beat the odds as well as the Republicans to become a well respected member of the U.S. senate. I did say it right? Was it fair to say that Hillary Clinton, like any great politician, took advantage of a crisis to prove herself? Was her conduct in 1998 a key to starting her independent electoral career the following year? Yes. Was it fair to imply that Hillary's whole career depending on being a victim of an unfaithful husband? No. And that's what it sounded like I was saying. And it hurt people.

I'd like to think people normally like what I say. In fact, normally like me. As I said, I rely on my heart to guide me in the heated, fast-paced talk we have here on Hardball. A heart that bears only goodwill toward people trying to make it out there, especially those who haven't before. If my heart has not always controlled my words, on those occasions when I have not taken the time to say things right or have simply said the inappropriate thing, I'll try to be clearer, smarter, more obviously in support of the right of women, of all people, the full equality and respect for their ambitions. So I get it.

On the particular point, if I'd said it the only reason John McCain has come so far is that he got shot down over North Vietnam and captured by the enemy, I'd be brutally ignoring the courage and guts he showed in bearing up under his captivity. Saying that Senator Clinton got where she's got simply because her husband did what he did to her is just as callous, and I can see now that it comes across just as nasty. Worse yet, just as dismissive.

Finally, if anyone doesn't know this, I love politics. I love politicians. I like and respect people with the guts to put their name, their very being out there for public approval so that they can lead our country. And that goes for Hillary and Barack and John and all the rest who are willing to fight to take on the toughest job in the world.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Deeman3
01-18-2008, 02:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I don't put much credence in the ramblings of misogynists, Deeman. <font color="blue"> Nor do I. </font color>

Hillary Clinton distinguished herself long before she ran into Bill Clinton. <font color="blue"> She did exactly what before she ran into Clinton? I admit she graduated but, other than Biil, she would be a lawyer in middle America. </font color> Suffice it to say, Bill Clinton left office with a 65% approval rating, <font color="blue"> Wait, are you still using his numbers to prop her up and claiming her independence as a modern woman of achievement? Try again. </font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

eg8r
01-18-2008, 03:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The Apology of Chris Mathews, long overdue.
<hr /></blockquote> What a sad day in history. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif It is organizations like these women organizations that are suppressing free speech in America.

eg8r

Deeman3
01-18-2008, 05:03 PM
As long as you continue to shut off discussion and debate by calling all opposition names that imply sexist attitudes, women will never make real progress in our culture. I do not ever recall her status as a women being used directly or indirectly as an excuse by me to not prefer her as a President. You, and she, play on the unfairness of any critique of her character and lack of accomplishment as gender based to avoid any real discussion of her qualifications, record of dealings with facts, etc.

It is the only strategy you have other than Bush is evil. If you can convince the world all who oppose her are just a bunch of women haters, you don't ever have to explain why many, even those in your own party, have problems with her as a candidate for President. At that very moment you will have her bask in the glory of her's husband's record while claiming her independence as a woman.

I don't mind her being a strong woman, which she is. I don't mind her riding Bill's coatails, as she is. Just don't pretend hanging out at the White House makes her the most qualified. Tell us how her policy, not Bill's will help America. How she will pay for her programs and how she will change health care for the better, something she blew on her first attempt. How she will chage the face of politics in Washington...can you do that without saying, I hate Bush? DeeMan hates women....Steve is evil....

Didn't think so.

My wife is an expert horse rider. No matter how long I carry her to events and watch her perform, I still can't ride anywhere near her level but it would be pretty easy to claim I could.

I am torturing several women as we speak. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

SKennedy
01-18-2008, 05:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I don't put much credence in the ramblings of misogynists, Deeman.

Hillary Clinton distinguished herself long before she ran into Bill Clinton. Suffice it to say, Bill Clinton left office with a 65% approval rating, and all politicians are opportunists, that's how Bush Jr., and Sr., got into office, only in Jr.'s case, he had never even been outside the country, and spent his adult life snorting coke, and drunk driving. None of the Republican Candidates can light a candle to Hillary's achievements. I don't think there's a Valedictorian among them.

If you want a good look at opportunists, any White House photo taken during the last seven years, will surely provide it.

Gayle in Md.
So Proud To Never Have Voted For George Bush! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <hr /></blockquote>

We had a valedictorian (H.S) who worked in my department for awhile. He was a good employee but after the first report he wrote for me I inquired more into his education (I did not hire him). Seems he went to very small rural school with only 11 in the graduating class. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SKennedy
01-18-2008, 05:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Her Camp? I'm quite sure, a supremo misogynist such as yourself, and Deeman, <hr /></blockquote>

Hey guys? Do your wives know you hate women? I thought about showing my wife these posts of Gayle's, especially those where she characterizes all of us, as I'm sure she would get a good laugh.

Respect for toughest job in the world....Hillary, Obama, and John.... How about Fred, Huck, and the rest?

Bobbyrx
01-18-2008, 05:53 PM
"It's ridiculous, IMO, for the author to completely ignore "the difficulty women in Hillary's generation faced to achieve what she did achieve in her youth, compared to the young women of today, or the men of yesterday, things for quite different for those women, of those times."

<font color="red"> Let's take Hillary out and try this </font color>

It's ridiculous, IMO, for the author to completely ignore the difficulty women in <font color="blue">Condi Rice's </font color> generation faced to achieve what she did achieve in her youth, compared to the young women of today, or the men of yesterday, things for quite different for those women, of those times.

<font color="red">Now it makes sense </font color>

Bobbyrx
01-18-2008, 06:18 PM
I would have thought that this quote would have bothered our female posters but it got no reaction:

"If i were you i go out play some 14.1 then pick up some young hottie Fu@k the [censored] out of her, always makes me feel better."

Is this:

A) Bill Clinton

B) Bill Clinton

C) Bill Clinton
or
D) One of our left leaning posters (who I enjoy reading by the way)

pooltchr
01-18-2008, 06:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Her Camp? Although you have no proof of any kind that Hillary had anything at all to do with that, <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, her camp...her responnsibility! You, of all people should understand that. If anything happens in Washington, it's GW's fault, because he is the president. Using that logic (I know using any kind of logic goes against your grain, but try to follow this one) if it's Hillary's campaign, she is responsible for everything her staff does.

I don't care if she is a woman, man, or somewhere in between. What I do care about is she has proven over and over that she will say whatever the polls tell her she should say. It worked for Bill, so it should work for her too.
If you think the economy is in trouble now, let her start putting all her entitlement programs in place and see how quickly the economy really tanks!

All those nice Christmas gifts she had in her tv commercial come with a very large price tag. But since she isn't the one paying for it, it doesn't bother her at all. It's easy to give away things when someone else is paying for it!

Steve

LAMas
01-18-2008, 09:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Her Camp? Although you have no proof of any kind that Hillary had anything at all to do with that, <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, her camp...her responnsibility! You, of all people should understand that. If anything happens in Washington, it's GW's fault, because he is the president. Using that logic (I know using any kind of logic goes against your grain, but try to follow this one) if it's Hillary's campaign, she is responsible for everything her staff does.

I don't care if she is a woman, man, or somewhere in between. What I do care about is she has proven over and over that she will say whatever the polls tell her she should say. It worked for Bill, so it should work for her too.
If you think the economy is in trouble now, let her start putting all her entitlement programs in place and see how quickly the economy really tanks!

All those nice Christmas gifts she had in her tv commercial come with a very large price tag. But since she isn't the one paying for it, it doesn't bother her at all. It's easy to give away things when someone else is paying for it!

Steve <hr /></blockquote>

Is she Responsible?
http://www.etherzone.com/body.html
CLINTON BODY COUNT

By: Ether Zone Staff

Here is the latest body count that we have. All of these people have been connected with the Clintons in some form or another. We have not included any deaths that could not be verified or connected to the Clinton scandals. All deaths are listed chronologically by date. This list is current and accurate to the best of our knowledge as of January 13, 1999 August 1, 2000.

Susan Coleman: Rumors were circulating in Arkansas of an affair with Bill Clinton. She was found dead with a gunshot wound to the head at 7 1/2 months pregnant. Death was an apparent suicide.

Larry Guerrin: Was killed in February 1987 while investigating the INSLAW case.

Kevin Ives &amp; Don Henry: Initial cause of death was reported to be the result of falling asleep on a railroad track in Arkansas on August 23, 1987. This ruling was reported by the State medical examiner Fahmy Malak. Later it was determined that Kevin died from a crushed skull prior to being placed on the tracks. Don had been stabbed in the back. Rumors indicate that they might have stumbled upon a Mena drug operation.

Keith Coney: Keith had information on the Ives/Henry deaths. Died in a motorcycle accident in July 1988 with unconfirmed reports of a high speed car chase.

Keith McKaskle: McKaskle has information on the Ives/Henry deaths. He was stabbed to death in November 1988.

Gregory Collins: Greg had information on the Ives/Henry deaths. He died from a gunshot wound to the face in January 1989.

Jeff Rhodes: He had information on the deaths of Ives, Henry &amp; McKaskle. His burned body was found in a trash dump in April 1989. He died of a gunshot wound to the head and there was some body mutilation, leading to the probably speculation that he was tortured prior to being killed.

James Milam: Milam had information on the Ives &amp; Henry deaths. He was decapitated. The state Medical examiner, Fahmy Malak, initially ruled death due to natural causes.

Richard Winters: Winters was a suspect in the deaths of Ives &amp; Henry. He was killed in a "robbery" in July 1989 which was subsequently proven to be a setup.

Jordan Kettleson: Kettleson had information on the Ives &amp; Henry deaths. He was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup in June 1990.

Alan Standorf: An employee of the National Security Agency in electronic intelligence. Standorf was a source of information for Danny Casalaro who was investigating INSLAW, BCCI, etc. Standorf's body was found in the backseat of a car at Washington National Airport on Jan 31, 1991.

Dennis Eisman: An attorney with information on INSLAW. Eisman was found shot to death on April 5, 1991.

Danny Casalaro: Danny was a free-lance reporter and writer who was investigating the "October Surprise", INSLAW and BCCI. Danny was found dead in a bathtub in a Sheraton Hotel room in Martinsburg, West Virginia. Danny was staying at the hotel while keeping appointments in the DC area pertinent to his investigation. He was found with his wrists slashed. At least one, and possibly both of his wrists were cut 10 times. All of his research materials were missing and have never been recovered.

Victor Raiser: The National Finance Co-Chair for "Clinton for President." He died in a airplane crash on July 30, 1992.

R. Montgomery Raiser: Also involved in the Clinton presidential campaign. He died in the same plane crash as Victor.

Paul Tully: Tulley was on the Democratic National Committee. He was found dead of unknown causes in his hotel room on September 24, 1992. No autopsy was ever allowed.

Ian Spiro: Spiro had supporting documentation for grand jury proceedings on the INSLAW case. His wife and 3 children were found murdered on November 1, 1992 in their home. They all died of gunshot wounds to the head. Ian's body was found several days later in a parked car in the Borego Desert. Cause of death? The ingestion of cyanide. FBI report indicated that Ian had murdered his family and then committed suicide.

Paula Gober: A Clinton speech writer. She died in a car accident on December 9, 1992 with no known witnesses.

Jim Wilhite: Wilhite was an associate of Mack McClarty's former firm. Wilhite died in a skiing accident on December 21, 1992. He also had extensive ties to Clinton with whom he visited by telephone just hours before his death.

Steve Willis, Robert Williams, Todd McKeahan &amp; Conway LeBleu: Died Feburary 28, 1993 by gunfire at Waco. All four were examined by a pathologist and died from identical wounds to the left temple. All four had been body guards for Bill Clinton, three while campaigning for President and when he was Governor of Arkansas.They also were the ONLY 4 BATF agents killed at Waco.

Sgt. Brian Haney, Sgt. Tim Sabel, Maj. William Barkley, Capt. Scott Reynolds: Died: May 19, 1993 - All four men died when their helicopter crashed in the woods near Quantico, Va. - Reporters were barred from the site, and the head of the fire department responding to the crash described it by saying, "Security was tight," with "lots of Marines with guns." A videotape made by a firefighter was seized by the Marines. All four men had escorted Clinton on his flight to the carrier Roosevelt shortly before their deaths.

John Crawford: An attorney with information on INSLAW. He died from a heart attack in Tacoma in April of 1993.

John Wilson: Found dead from an apparent hanging suicide on May 18, 1993. He was a former Washington DC council member and claimed to have info on Whitewater.

Paul Wilcher: A lawyer who was investigating drug running out of Mena, Arkansas and who also sought to expose the "October Surprise", BCCI and INSLAW. He was found in his Washington DC apartment dead of unknown causes on June 22, 1993.

Vincent Foster: A White House deputy counsel and long-time personal friend of Bill and Hillary's. Found on July 20, 1993, dead of a gunshot wound to the mouth -- a death ruled suicide. Many different theories on this case! Readers are encouraged to read our report in Strange Deaths.

Jon Parnell Walker: An investigator for the RTC who was looking into the linkage between the Whitewater and Madison S&amp;L bankruptcy. Walker "fell" from the top of the Lincoln Towers Building.

Stanley Heard &amp; Steven Dickson: They were members of the Clinton health care advisory committee. They died in a plane crash on September 10, 1993.

Jerry Luther Parks: Parks was the Chief of Security for Clinton's national campaign headquarters in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car on September 26, 1993 near the intersection of Chenal Parkway and Highway 10 west of Little Rock. Parks was shot through the rear window of his car. The assailant then pulled around to the driver's side of Park's car and shot him three more times with a 9mm pistol. His family reported that shortly before his death, they were being followed by unknown persons, and their home had been broken into (despite a top quality alarm system). Parks had been compiling a dossier on Clinton's illicit activities. The dossier was stolen.

Ed Willey: A Clinton fundraiser. He died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound on November 30, 1993. His death came the same day his wife, Kathleen, was sexually assaulted in the White House by Bill Clinton.

Gandy Baugh: Baugh was Lasater's attorney and committed suicide on January 8, 1994. Baugh's partner committed suicide exactly one month later on February 8, 1994.

Herschell Friday: A member of the presidential campaign finance committee. He died in an airplane explosion on March 1, 1994.

Ronald Rogers: Rogers died on March 3, 1994 just prior to releasing sensitive information to a London newspaper. Cause of death? Undetermined.

Kathy Furguson: A 38 year old hospital worker whose ex-husband is a co- defendant in the Paula Jones sexual harassment law suit. She had information supporting Paula Jone's allegations. She died of an apparent suicide on May 11, 1994 from a gunshot wound to the head.

Bill Shelton: Shelton was an Arkansas police officer and was found dead as an apparent suicide on kathy Ferguson's grave (Kathy was his girl friend), on June 12, 1994. This "suicide" was the result of a gunshot wound to the back of the head.

Stanley Huggins: Huggins, 46, was a principal in a Memphis law firm which headed a 1987 investigation into the loan practices of Madison Guaranty S&amp;L. Stanley died in Delaware in July 1994 -- reported cause of death was viral pneumonia.

Paul Olson: A Federal witness in investigations to drug money corruption in Chicago politics, Paul had just finished 2 days of FBI interviews when his plane ride home crashed, killing Paul and 130 others on Sept 8 1994. The Sept. 15, 1994 Tempe Tribune newspaper reported that the FBI suspected that a bomb had brought down the airplane.

Calvin Walraven: 24 year on Walraven was a key witness against Jocelyn Elder's son's drug case. Walraven was found dead in his apartment with a gunshot wound to the head. Tim Hover, a Little Rock police spokesman says no foul play is suspected.

Alan G. Whicher: Oversaw Clinton's Secret Service detail. In October 1994 Whicher was transferred to the Secret Service field office in the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. Whatever warning was given to the BATF agents in that building did not reach Alan Whicher, who died in the bomb blast of April 19th 1995.

Duane Garrett: Died July 26, 1995-A lawyer and a talk show host for KGO-AM in San Fransisco, Duane was the campaign finance chairman for Diane Fienstien's run for the senate, and was a friend and fundraiser for Al Gore. Garrett was under investigation for defrauding investors in Garrett's failed sports memorabilia venture. There was talk of a deal to evade prosecution. On July 26th, Garrett canceled an afternoon meeting with his lawyer because he had to meet some people at the San Fransisco airport. Three hours later he was found floating in the bay under the Golden Gate Bridge.

Ron Brown:. The Commerce Secretary died on April 3, 1996, in an Air Force jet carrying Brown and 34 others, including 14 business executives on a trade mission to Croatia, crashed into a mountainside. The Air Force, in a 22-volume report issued in June of 1996, confirmed its initial judgment that the crash resulted from pilot errors and faulty navigation equipment At the time of Brown's death, Independent Counsel Daniel Pearson was seeking to determine whether Brown had engaged in several sham financial transactions with longtime business partner Nolanda Hill shortly before he became secretary of commerce.

Charles Meissner: died: UNK - Following Ron Brown's death, John Huang was placed on a Commerce Department contract that allowed him to retain his security clearance
by Charles Meissner. Shortly thereafter, Meissner died in the crash of a small plane. He was an Assistant Secretary of Commerce for International Economic Policy.

William Colby: Retired CIA director was found dead on May 6,1996 after his wife reported him missing on April 27,1996. Apparently, Colby decided to go on a impromptu canoeing excursion and never returned. Colby who had just started writing for Strategic Investment newsletter, worried many in the intelligent community. Colby's past history of divulging CIA secrets in the past were well known. Strategic Investor had covered the Vince Foster suicide and had hired handwriting experts to review Foster's suicide note.

Admiral Jeremy Boorda: Died on May 16,1996 after he went home for lunch and decided to shoot himself in the chest (by one report, twice) rather than be interviewed by Newsweek magazine that afternoon. Explanations for Boorda's suicide focused on a claim that he was embarrassed over two "Valor" pins he was not authorized to wear.

Lance Herndon: Herndon a 41 year old computer specialist and a prominent entrepreneur who received a presidential appointment in 1995 died August 10, 1996 under suspicious circumstances. He appeared to have died from a blow to the head. Police said no weapons were found at his mansion, adding that Mr. Herndon had not been shot or stabbed and there was no evidence of forced entry or theft.

Neil Moody: Died -August 25, 1996 Following Vincent Foster's murder, Lisa Foster married James Moody, a judge in Arkansas, on Jan 1, 1996. Near the time Susan McDougal first went to jail for contempt, Judge Moor's son, Neil died in a car crash. There were other reports that Neil Moody had discovered something very unsettling among his stepmother's private papers and was threatening to go public with it just prior to the beginning of the Democratic National Convention. He was alleged to have been talking to Bob Woodward of the Washington Post about a blockbuster story. Witnesses said they saw Neil Moody sitting in his car arguing with another person just prior to His car suddenly speeding off out of control and hitting a brick wall.

Barbara Wise: Wise a 14-year Commerce Department employee found dead and partially naked in her office following a long weekend. She worked in the same section as John Huang. Officially, she is said to have died of natural causes.

Doug Adams: Died January 7, 1997- A lawyer in Arkansas who got involved trying to help the people who were being swindled out of their life savings. Adams was found in his vehicle with a gunshot wound to his head in a Springfield Mo. hospital parking lot.

Mary C. Mahoney: 25, murdered at the Georgetown Starbuck's coffee bar over the 4th of July '97 weekend. She was a former White House intern who worked with John Huang. Apparently she knew Monica Lewinsky and her sexual encounters with Bill Clinton. Although not verified, it has been said that Lewinsky told Linda Tripp that she did not want to end up like Mahoney.

Ronald Miller: Suddenly took ill on October 3rd,1997 and steadily worsened until his death 9 days later. (This pattern fits Ricin poisoning.) Owing to the strangeness of the illness, doctors at the Integris Baptist Medical Center referred the matter to the Oklahoma State Medical Examiner's Office. The Oklahoma State Medical Examiner's Office promptly ran tests on samples of Ron Miller's blood, but has refused to release the results or even to confirm that the tests were ever completed.

Had been investigated by authorities over the sale of his company, Gage Corp. to Dynamic Energy Resources, Inc. was the man who tape recorded Gene and Nora Lum and turned those tapes (and other records) over to congressional oversight investigators. The Lums were sentenced to prison for campaign finance violations, using "straw donors" to conceal the size of their contributions to various candidates. Indeed, Dynamic Energy Resources, Inc. had hired Ron Brown's son Michael solely for the purpose of funneling $60,000 through him to the Commerce Secretary, according to Nolanda Hill's testimony.

Sandy Hume: On Sunday, February 22nd, 1998, Sandy Hume, the 28 year old son of journalist Britt Hume, was reportedly found dead in his Arlington, Virginia home. Aside from the statement that this was an "apparent" suicide, there remains in place a total media blackout on this story, possibly out of concern that the actual facts will not withstand public scrutiny. Worked for Hill magazine, about Congress for Congress.

Jim McDougal: Bill and Hillary Clinton friend, banker, and political ally, sent to prison for eighteen felony convictions. A key whitewater witness, dies of a heart attack on March, 8 1998. As of this writing allegations that he was given an injection of the diuretic lasix has not been denied or confirmed.
Died on March 8, 1998

Johnny Lawhon: 29, died March 29, 1998- The Arkansas transmission specialist who discovered a pile of Whitewater documents in the trunk of an abandoned car on his property and turned them over to Starr, was killed in a car wreck two weeks after the McDougal death.. Details of the "accident" have been sketchy -- even from the local Little Rock newspaper.

Charles Wilbourne Miller: 63, was found dead of a gunshot wound to the head on November 17, 1998 in a shallow pit about 300 yards from his ranch house near Little Rock. Police found a .410 gauge shotgun near Miller's body and a Ruger .357-caliber revolver submerged in water. Investigators concluded the Ruger was the weapon used by Miller to kill himself. Yet, two rounds in the handgun's cylinder had been spent.

He had long served as executive vice president and member of the board of directors for a company called Alltel and was deeply involved in his own software engineering company until the day he died. Alltel is the successor to Jackson Stephens' Systematics, the company that provided the software for the White House's "Big Brother" data base system and that was behind the administration's plan to develop the secret computer "Clipper" chip to bug every phone, fax and email transmission in America.

Carlos Ghigliotti: 42, was found dead in his home just outside of Washington D.C. on April 28, 2000. There was no sign of a break-in or struggle at the firm of Infrared Technology where the badly decomposed body of Ghigliotti was found. Ghigliotti had not been seen for several weeks.

Ghigliotti, a thermal imaging analyst hired by the House Government Reform Committee to review tape of the siege, said he determined the FBI fired shots on April 19, 1993. The FBI has explained the light bursts on infrared footage as reflections of sun rays on shards of glass or other debris that littered the scene.

"I conclude this based on the groundview videotapes taken from several different angles simultaneously and based on the overhead thermal tape," Ghigliotti told The Washington Post last October. "The gunfire from the ground is there, without a doubt."

Ghigliotti said the tapes also confirm the Davidians fired repeatedly at FBI agents during the assault, which ended when flames raced through the compound. About 80 Branch Davidians perished that day, some from the fire, others from gunshot wounds.

Mark Corallo, a spokesman for the congressional committee chaired by Rep. Dan Burton, R-Ind., said that police found the business card of a committee investigator in Ghigliotti's office. Corallo said Ghigliotti's work for the committee ended some time ago.

Tony Moser: 41, was killed as he crossed a street in Pine Bluff, Ark on on June 10, 2000. Killed 10 days after being named a columnist for the Democrat-Gazette newspaper and two days after penning a stinging indictment of political corruption in Little Rock.

Police have concluded that no charges will be filed against the unnamed driver of a 1995 Chevrolet pickup, which hit Moser as he was walking alone in the middle of unlit Rhinehart Road about 10:10 p.m

Police say they have ruled out foul play and will file no charges against the driver because he was not intoxicated and there was no sign of excessive speed.


"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact."

Or just BS?

Qtec
01-18-2008, 09:31 PM
Yes, its BS.
web page (http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp)

eg, [ QUOTE ]
Paul Tully: Tulley was on the Democratic National Committee. He was found dead of unknown causes in his hotel room on September 24, 1992. No autopsy was ever allowed. <hr /></blockquote>

There WAS an autopsy and Tully died from a heart attack.

etc etc

Q

Sid_Vicious
01-18-2008, 09:41 PM
Thing that gets me is that the Clintons have not had one definable broken law except for being popular and successful, unless you really count Bill for his BJ and follow up dodging to play it down. BUT the AH we have now in office had tons of lies, bodies in Walter Reid, all of his actions of dishonesty and thievery so apparent that it is astounding that he's been shielded from impeachment. You rights are an embarrasment to "the system."

Hillary is an angel compared to these dumb-azzes. sid

Drop1
01-18-2008, 10:03 PM
You have a lot of homework to do. LMAO

LAMas
01-18-2008, 11:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> You have a lot of homework to do. LMAO <hr /></blockquote>

Yup, your absolutely right - so many dead and so little time - LMAO.

Gayle in MD
01-19-2008, 09:06 AM
He had stated that without her encouraging him, he would never have taken at shot at the presidency, in the first place.

Her work ethic and organization skills have been acknowledged by everyone who has ever worked with her, from the time she entered the natinal arena, during the Watergate investigations, she distinguished herself.

She is respected all over the world.

She's served on the Foreign Intelligence committee for the last seven years.

She didn't just graduate from an Ivey League college, but as Valedictorian.

She prove her strength, determination and dignity dealing with one of the most embarrassing situations that any first lady has ever faced, probably THE most embarrassing, and hurtful. And, through it all, managed to raise a fine young daughter, who has done this country proud, unlike the Bush twins, and their father.

According to what I read, even those who are out to get her have had to admit that she has operated the most well organized campaign of any of the candidates, on either side.
Unlike McCain, Thompson or Guiliani.

She has worked for women's rights, and against discrimination throughout her career, ad won the race for NY Senator, when no one thought she could, and has a high approval rating among New Yorkers.

She certainly was not a First Lady who was thought of as being a glorified hostess, and Clinton has stated that in a difficult situation, he would choose her, among all others, as his most prized advisor.

Now, come on back with your usual sarcastic, discriminatory, misogynist statements. She's never ridden on any mans coat tails. To the Contrary, she displays all the Characteristics of a woman who was behind her man, and contributed greatly to his success.

Gayle in MD
01-19-2008, 09:13 AM
[ QUOTE ]
As long as you continue to shut off discussion and debate by calling all opposition names that imply sexist attitudes, women will never make real progress in our culture. I do not ever recall her status as a women being used directly or indirectly as an excuse by me to not prefer her as a President. <hr /></blockquote>

I think you certainly did. Stating that a woman of her accomplishments was riding on her husbands coat tails was as misogynist a statement as I've ever read. The people in New York, were not voting for Bill Clinton. I've never heard you accuse George Bush of riding on his father's coat tails, or George HW Bush, or Romney. Calling her an opportunist, when you know damned well that ever man in Politics is an opportunist, is also chauvinistic.

Your statements are offensive, and would be offensive to any woman who has ever worked with her husband in the business world, or in the political field. Chris Mathews made the same exact statements aginst her as you have made here, and the top three women's organizations in this country, worte to the President of NBC. I think that proves how any woman would feel about your misogynist statements, and also any reasonable man.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
01-19-2008, 09:19 AM
Condi Rice is a good deal younger than Hillary Clinton. It was women like Hillary Clinton who blazed the patt for women like Condi Rice, and Presidents like Bill Clinton, who worked to give blacks more opportunity to go to college, and move poverty strickened blacks off the welfare roles, and into jobs.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
01-19-2008, 09:22 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Using that logic (I know using any kind of logic goes against your grain, but try to follow this one) if it's Hillary's campaign, she is responsible for everything her staff does.

<hr /></blockquote>

That's probably why the man who made the statement, apologized for it, unlike you, after your disgusting statement, or do you ever watch the news?

Gayle in MD
01-19-2008, 09:25 AM
That's so true, Martin. Bah bah bah... /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

pooltchr
01-19-2008, 11:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> you know damned well that ever man in Politics is an opportunist, is also chauvinistic.

<font color="red"> That has to be one of the most ignorant, prejudiced, biased and outlandish statements you have ever spewed. To say that every man in politics is chauvinistic might suggest that there is a deep seeded hatred of all men buried deep inside. It's could also indicate a significant degree of paranoia on your part.
You may want to consider seeking professional help. </font color>

Your statements are offensive, and would be offensive to any woman who has ever worked with her husband in the business world, or in the political field. <font color="red"> Play the "I'm offended" card when you disagree with someone...good plan. Deflect the facts by attacking anyone with a different perspective. </font color> Chris Mathews made the same exact statements aginst her as you have made here, and the top three women's organizations in this country, worte to the President of NBC. <font color="red"> The same tactic used by the likes of Jesse and Al...look for any reason to be offended and make a big stink about it. Make mountains out of molehills.</font color> I think that proves how any woman would feel about your misogynist statements, and also any reasonable man. <font color="red"> Once again, you assume that any woman would agree with you...you are letting your ego get in the way of reason. And I am surprised to see you admit that there is such a thing as a reasonable man. </font color>

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red"> When you returned to the forum from your recent sabatical, I actually thought you might have decided to tone down all the bs and make some intelligent contributions to the board. I'm sad to see that I was wrong.
Steve </font color>

Bobbyrx
01-19-2008, 05:51 PM
Seven years is not a great deal and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that Hillary Clinton (or Bill for that matter) has ever done to blaze any trail for Rice. She has accomplished ten times as much and done it ON HER OWN...

Gayle in MD
01-19-2008, 08:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Calling her an opportunist, when you know damned well that ever man in Politics is an opportunist, is also chauvinistic. This is the complete sentence, which I wrote. Pretty cheap trick, Steve.
<hr /></blockquote>

[ QUOTE ]
you know damned well that ever man in Politics is an opportunist, is also chauvinistic. This is how you edited it, completely changing the meaning of my original sentence. Again, cheap trick.


[ QUOTE ]
That has to be one of the most ignorant, prejudiced, biased and outlandish statements you have ever spewed. To say that every man in politics is chauvinistic might suggest that there is a deep seeded hatred of all men buried deep inside. It's could also indicate a significant degree of paranoia on your part.
You may want to consider seeking professional help.

<hr /></blockquote>

After what you just pulled, I think you're the one who might want to consider professional help.
<hr /></blockquote>

[ QUOTE ]
Play the "I'm offended" card when you disagree with someone...good plan. Deflect the facts by attacking anyone with a different perspective. <hr /></blockquote>

I don't recall saying I was offended. I simply stated what was obvious. You both hate Hillary Clinton, apparently with a real vengence. Too bad for you. Her accomplishments must really irritate you.

[ QUOTE ]
The same tactic used by the likes of Jesse and Al...look for any reason to be offended and make a big stink about it. Make mountains out of molehills. <hr /></blockquote>

Oh, so it isn't just women, but blacks, too? Figures.

[ QUOTE ]
Once again, you assume that any woman would agree with you...you are letting your ego get in the way of reason. And I am surprised to see you admit that there is such a thing as a reasonable man.

<hr /></blockquote>

I didn't assume anything. The exact same nasty statements were made about Hillary, that both you and Deeman have made, by Chris Mathews, and the three top women's organizations in the country, wrote to the President of NBC, after which he aplogized. Apparently, II'm not alone in my assessment of the impact, intent and psychological issues that are at work, in the minds of men who make such comments. Misogynistic comments. And some of yours in the past, are even worse. You can deny it all you want. Any man who begins a sentence, with "when a women spread her legs, she loses her..." Yes, in that regard, I feel quite comfortable to speak for all women, it was not only misogynistic, but ignorant, insulting, rude and revealing. And there are loads of reasonable men, and loads of misogynists. Women know the difference.


[ QUOTE ]
When you returned to the forum from your recent sabatical, I actually thought you might have decided to tone down all the bs and make some intelligent contributions to the board. I'm sad to see that I was wrong.
Steve
HA HA HA...coming from you, that is choice! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
01-19-2008, 08:51 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Seven years is not a great deal and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that Hillary Clinton (or Bill for that matter) has ever done to blaze any trail for Rice. She has accomplished ten times as much and done it ON HER OWN <hr /></blockquote>

Hillary Clinton has been in public service for thirty-five years. What do you know about her? Obviously. about as much as Steve, and Deeman. I'd wager not one of you three has ever even bothered to research a thing about her. Condi Rice was a career student, an only child, whose parents payed her way through college. Let's hear you list her accomplishments, and Hillary's...I can assure you of one thing, she's achieved zilch, as the Secretary Of State, and has the dsitinction of having completely ignored the most unprecedented advance warning of an impending terrorist attack in history, followed by documented lie, in fron of the congress Of The United States Of America. She's had about the same impact in the whole scheme of things as Smile/Nod Laura. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Bobbyrx
01-19-2008, 10:18 PM
"Condi Rice was a career student, an only child, whose parents payed her way through college. <font color="red"> oh no!!! </font color> Let's hear you list her accomplishments, <font color="red">not enough room and would tower over Hillary's but if you want to go there....... </font color> and Hillary's... <font color="red"> she was a LAWYER ,Bill Clinton's wife ( a huge failure as an UNELECTED policy maker) and never lived in New York until......hmmmm </font color>

nAz
01-20-2008, 01:00 AM
Gayle, Condi for all the goofiing done about her, is really smart person who i'm sure cares about our country... the problem with her and most of the admins inner and outer circle (with the exception of Rove) is just that they are way in over heads.
They just had no idea what they were doing, they were following and selling a pipe dream. Im sorry i do not have a link or a proven neo con document to back me up but all we have to do is look at the state of our nation to know this is true.... but maybe it all B. Clinton's BJ fault?

bamadog
01-20-2008, 01:43 AM
And the "pipe dream" was what, exactly?

nAz
01-20-2008, 02:17 AM
Come on...you know? the one you and ... roughly 23% percent still believe.

LWW
01-20-2008, 05:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> Come on...you know? the one you and ... roughly 23% percent still believe. <hr /></blockquote>
So, you don't actually have an answer.

LWW

LWW
01-20-2008, 05:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bobbyrx:</font><hr> Seven years is not a great deal and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that Hillary Clinton (or Bill for that matter) has ever done to blaze any trail for Rice. She has accomplished ten times as much and done it ON HER OWN... <hr /></blockquote>
Impossible!

It is DNC dogma that NO black, NO female, and NO minority can EVER succeed unless the gubmint fends off the EEEVILLL male, conservative, fascist, republican, illuminati, racist, sexist, homophobic status quo that America has become!

Please retract this ridiculous statement, take three shots of Kool Aid, and report to reprogramming Tuesday AM.

LWW

LWW
01-20-2008, 06:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Hillary Clinton has been in public service for thirty-five years. What do you know about her? <hr /></blockquote>
She's a pathological liar, an unabashed socialist, and a power hungry partyite who would gladly sell out to the Chicoms to get elected.

OOPS!

She already did that last one.

So did Billy Jeff.

Twice.

LWW

eg8r
01-20-2008, 06:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Her work ethic and organization skills have been acknowledged by everyone who has ever worked with her, <hr /></blockquote> Those organization skills were evident when the Rose Law firm documents were in question. Where were they hidden? Were they by the shoes or the panties? Yuck I shudder to mention Hillary and panties in the same sentence.

eg8r

pooltchr
01-20-2008, 06:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Yuck I shudder to mention Hillary and panties in the same sentence.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Two minutes in the penalty box for even thinking it...and a one game suspension for making the rest of us consider it!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Steve

Gayle in MD
01-20-2008, 06:59 PM
You are exactly right, my friend. Condi Rice is a brilliant woman, and as Hillary Clinton, did, she distinguished herself throughout her life, however, she apparently has no common sense, since she refused to do a damned thing after the two top National security people, on of them the director of the CIA, rushed to her office to warn her of an impending terrorist attack. Her excuse to the Congress, was a lie...

"No one ever imagined people flying airplanes into buildings" Total BULLS**T!

AND, her cover up for Bush, "the President had made it very clear that he wasn't going to swat at flies...

An Idiotic statement, and an idiotic policy, which caused the lives of over three thousand Americans, for whom we still have not killed the man who planned it! Totally OUTRAGEOUS!

THAT wasn't enough, now they've caused the deaths of over four thousand more, for WHAT! How many Iraqis are dead? We'll never know the true numbers. These people, and Cheney, are criminals, and they should be prosecuted for War Crimes, and for obstruction of Justice, Abuse of Power, AND TREASON, for lying our country into an un-necessary war, and then screwing the whole thing up, total FUBAR.

Bush is the worst ever, and Rice is no better. They're both liars, and their both incompetent.

And you're right, Naz, after all the right wing Bull about Clinton, and not one single thing has ever been proven against him as far as his presidential duties were concerned. All we have to do is read the damned papers, or watch the news, to see what a mess bush has made. We may never recover from it.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
01-20-2008, 07:01 PM
No laws were broken by either of them. Bill Clinton was never indicted for any crime, nor was Hillary, and he was cleared in the impeachment trial.

Gayle in Md.

Qtec
01-20-2008, 08:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Her work ethic and organization skills have been acknowledged by everyone who has ever worked with her, <hr /></blockquote> Those organization skills were evident when the Rose Law firm documents were in question. Where were they hidden? Were they by the shoes or the panties? Yuck I shudder to mention Hillary and panties in the same sentence.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

What is the charge? What are you accusing her of doing?
Do you really think top lawyers do their own filing? LOL
Anything to do with cash is surely the ultimate responsibility of the accounts Dept or the firm's accountants. ie an Accountant Company.

I confess I don't know much about this but after all time time and all the various accusations, nothing has ever been proved.!!!!!!!!!!!!.....and you are still going on about it?

OTOH, the WH DOES have a LEGAL requirement to save all e-mails and they have just erased MILLIONS of them!!!! To you of course, that is not even suspicious.????????????

Right now, at this very moment GW is mooning you and saying "you and the Constitution can kiss my a$$"and you guys are STILL moaning about the Clintons!

Amazing.......but not surprising.

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Drop1
01-20-2008, 09:23 PM
Q,Right now,I think Hillary will be the next President,and I think we need to know what makes her tick,as a personality. Had the people taken the time to really have a good look,at GWB last go around,instead of a mindless emotional electoral orgasm,I don't think he would have made it,and seventy percent of Americans,would not be saying dump the dumper. We have to separate the light from the darkness when we judge a candidate,and we are never going to get someone with no skeletons,but we can select the one who will be best suited for the job,skeletons and all.

Qtec
01-20-2008, 09:43 PM
Believe me, there is no way H will be Pres. They want her as candidate so they can SwiftBoat her.

Don't you think the GOP has been pretty mild with H up till now?

Its coming.

Does H go both ways? etc

The possibilities are endless.

Q

Drop1
01-20-2008, 09:55 PM
I don't believe God,why would I believe you? Sure there are going to be,and there have been questions about her orientation--twenty nine women,and one man on her staff. But when you say they,who are you referring to?

eg8r
01-20-2008, 10:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What is the charge? What are you accusing her of doing?
<hr /></blockquote> Why should I play the game with the guy across the pond when he is acting dumb? If you don't know then do one more google.

eg8r

LWW
01-20-2008, 10:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> No laws were broken by either of them. Bill Clinton was never indicted for any crime, nor was Hillary, and he was cleared in the impeachment trial.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>
He also plead guilty his last day in office to avoid prosecution, payed $800K to settle the Paula Jones case, and was disbarred before the SCOTUS.

Somehow you overlooked the parts of the story which don't fit your partisan agenda.

Imagine that?

LWW