PDA

View Full Version : God's Profits: Faith, Fraud and the GOP Crusade



S0Noma
01-22-2008, 09:13 AM
God's Profits: Faith, Fraud and the GOP Crusade for Values Voters

By Sarah Posner, Posted January 22, 2008.

A look into the shady finances and manipulative politics of America's leading televangelist hucksters.

Like Bush's 2000 campaign slogan, Compassionate ConserŽvatism, Word of Faith preachers often give lip service to their church's community service projects yet worship at the altar of hyperindividualism and unregulated capitalism. Many of these televangelists spend millions of dollars of church funds on luxury jets, take huge salaries out of church coffers to build themselves mansions, and treat themselves to other luxuries like clothes, vacations, and high-end dinners. They use the free advertising of their churches and television shows to sell countless books, tapes, and DVDs of their sermons, raking in millions that go into for-profit church-related enterprises that line their own pockets.

All of this activity is rationalized as obeying Jesus' command to spread the Gospel throughout the world. Yet it is all possible precisely because there is virtually no oversight of the preachers' activities. Tax-exempt churches do not file tax returns and are under no obligation to divulge their finances to donors or the public. Where profit-driven church meets the cornerstone of conservative economic ideology, televangelists have been enriching themselves in an unregulated marketplace trading on God, the cult of personality, and American dreams of riches and success.

web page (http://www.alternet.org/story/74440/?page=1)

eg8r
01-22-2008, 09:23 AM
I see you just cannot help yourself. You are on some crusade to post as much negative news as you can possibly find. It might actually be interesting though if you found some original content. [ QUOTE ]
All of this activity is rationalized as obeying Jesus' command to spread the Gospel throughout the world. <hr /></blockquote> Who has ever stated this or is it just the author's opinion?

Since you are hell-bent on posting so much negativity about Christians can you answer one simple question, do you think the world would be a better place without religion? If so, why?

eg8r

bsmutz
01-22-2008, 02:19 PM
All of this activity is rationalized as obeying Jesus' command to spread the Gospel throughout the world.
There, I stated it just now if that helps. Seems fairly obvious to me that many people during my lifetime have been "spreading the Word" for the main motive of helping themselves to as much riches as they can talk their believers into coughing up to them, all in the guise of spreading the gospel. If what's written in the history books is to be believed, it's been happening a lot longer than that, too. There are also others that do it using some other religion as a basis for their get-rich-quick schemes. The Christians just seem to be the best at it in this country and are far more prolific.
I'll defer the answer to your other questions to Sonoma to answer, although it will be difficult at best. There's very little to base any type of conjecture on what life would be like without religion of some type as it is so pervasive and has been for so long.

Gayle in MD
01-22-2008, 02:24 PM
Good post.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

eg8r
01-22-2008, 02:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
All of this activity is rationalized as obeying Jesus' command to spread the Gospel throughout the world.
There, I stated it just now if that helps. <hr /></blockquote> If it helps what?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
01-22-2008, 02:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
There's very little to base any type of conjecture on what life would be like without religion of some type as it is so pervasive and has been for so long.

<hr /></blockquote>

It would be better. Just look at all the killing in God's name.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

bsmutz
01-22-2008, 03:39 PM
Calm you down. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

bsmutz
01-22-2008, 03:43 PM
While I agree that there has been plenty of killing God's name, there has also been plenty for other reasons. I would not be surprised to find out that much of the killing in God's name is very similar to the collecting of riches to spread God's word. Just a made up excuse for what one is doing that cannot be argued against as it isn't mine but "God's will".

LWW
01-22-2008, 04:49 PM
If it weren't for religion we would already be extinct.

LWW

bsmutz
01-22-2008, 05:06 PM
Only religion can save us from ourselves! Oh, yes, and if it wasn't for us rushing into Iraq, SH and the magnificent, omnipotent Republican Guard would have cut off our oil supply and we would also be extinct by now. It's true, it's true. All roads (except those espoused by Lost; Without Wits) lead to extinction! Just wait until December 21st, 2012 for all of his predictions to come true!

LWW
01-22-2008, 05:08 PM
Did you have a point or was that a brain seizure I just witnessed you having?

LWW

bsmutz
01-22-2008, 05:30 PM
Hey, at least I have a brain. Since you have fallen to replying to your own posts and having a long drawn out debate with yourself on a public forum, I thought I'd save you some time and embarassment by resharing your thoughts with the group. Oh, wait, I forgot that you have to care what other people think of you before you can become embarassed. When you are the epitome of stupidity, who cares! You're obviously too stupid to recognize a point if it jabbed you in the eye, much less respond coherently to it.

LWW
01-22-2008, 06:15 PM
do we have our first taker on the "CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS NEOLIB IS CALLING EL DUB STUPID!" challenge.

Many have called me out.

All have slunk away in shame with their tails between their legs.

Got a set?

LWW

bsmutz
01-22-2008, 06:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LWW:</font><hr>
Many have called me out.

<hr /></blockquote>
Golly, I wonder why. Finally noticing a trend here, are we?

LWW
01-22-2008, 06:21 PM
You didn't answer a very direct response to a very stupid and direct statement of yours.

Got a set?

The trend I see is big mouthed no-nothings who insult people, run away, and then cry victim status.

Well, you seem to no nothing, got big mouthed, ran away, and now I guess you claim to be a victim.

LWW

S0Noma
01-22-2008, 06:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> I see you just cannot help yourself. You are on some crusade to post as much negative news as you can possibly find. It might actually be interesting though if you found some original content. &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
All of this activity is rationalized as obeying Jesus' command to spread the Gospel throughout the world. <hr /></blockquote> Who has ever stated this or is it just the author's opinion?

Since you are hell-bent on posting so much negativity about Christians can you answer one simple question, do you think the world would be a better place without religion? If so, why?

<font color="blue">Hi Eg8r, how goes it? First things first, I am neither 'on a crusade' or 'hellbent' LOL. As to posting negative things about Christians? Believe it or not there's quite a bit of it out there and I really don't have to look too hard to find it. You may live in a place where people don't speak ill of Christians or studiously avoid any bad news about the role Christians play in our society but I don't and I'm not going to avoid it either.

As to religion? I think it serves a valid function in many ways and that there are some very good things to be said for it but... Eg8r, it wasn't atheists who flew those planes into the World Trade Centers. It was men convinced by their religious beliefs that they were going to be transported immediately to some imaginary place called heaven where each would be rewarded by their idea of God for their 'valiant sacrifice'.

I know this may be very difficult for you to accept or to understand, but I don't believe in ANY of it. Not the Muslim description of God, not the Mormon description of God, not the Catholics, or the Jews or the Jehovah's Witnesses or ANYONE who practices the thing called faith. To me it's all just made up stuff. The funny thing is that I'm pretty sure that you agree with me for the most part about all those misguided folks - except for where your own personal faith comes in - and for you I'd be willing to bet real money that you don't think that's made up stuff at all.

As I've said several times in this forum, I really don't care what anyone believes as long as they don't try to push their beliefs off on me. That includes not electing public officials who will in turn work to pass laws that force me to conform my behavior to their idea of morality. It includes not wanting people in public office who believe in Biblical prophecy and who might find their policy making decisions influenced by a desire to 'help' those prophecies come to pass.

I'm sorry if you don't like seeing some of the articles I post. This one particularly deals with an issue that I feel is worthy of closer scrutiny. I think with the freedom of tax exemption some of these so-called Christian preachers are abusing their positions of power in order to amass personal wealth. Once again, it's important for me to point out that I don't believe in a god or gods so, for me, it looks for all the world like they're cunning charlatans selling made up stuff to a gullible audience. You, may feel entirely different than me - I'm okay with that.

As to the direct question of the world being better off without religion? I think that the world would be better off without so many people putting their faith in fantasies. Particularly fantasies that cause them to behave in ways that are entirely unacceptable to the well-being of the rest of us humans who share the planet with them.



</font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

S0Noma
01-22-2008, 07:26 PM
Not the first, nor that last. Your question was pointless and sophomoric and did not merit a response.

Please don't tell us that LWW the big blustering, insecure, bully who lives deep in the state of denial has returned to harangue the forum with his phony claims of prowess and past victories?

Spare us the pontificating harangue - it's boring, juvenile, unconvincing and a waste of everyone's time.

By now we all know who and what you are. Your lying about it isn't going to change our low opinion of you even one little bit.

eg8r
01-23-2008, 09:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
As to religion? I think it serves a valid function in many ways and that there are some very good things to be said for it but... Eg8r, it wasn't atheists who flew those planes into the World Trade Centers. <hr /></blockquote> Nor were they Christians. I have yet to see many posts of yours showing the negativity of the religion of those that flew those planes. It seems your "crusades" are only pointing fingers at the Christian faith.

[ QUOTE ]
I think with the freedom of tax exemption some of these so-called Christian preachers are abusing their positions of power in order to amass personal wealth. <hr /></blockquote> There is nothing to think about, it is true there are some that are doing so. This is no different than any other tax exempt business where the one guy on top is making tons of money.

Is the issue of people amassing tons of money really the tax exempt portion or is it the fact that it is a religious person doing it?

eg8r

eg8r
01-23-2008, 09:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Many have called me out.

All have slunk away in shame with their tails between their legs. <hr /></blockquote> No, if you remember not that long ago the butt kicking you took from SONoma. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I guess he kicked your butt so hard you still have a little amnesia.

eg8r

eg8r
01-23-2008, 09:45 AM
You definitely don't read people well. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

eg8r

S0Noma
01-23-2008, 10:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
As to religion? I think it serves a valid function in many ways and that there are some very good things to be said for it but... Eg8r, it wasn't atheists who flew those planes into the World Trade Centers. <hr /></blockquote> Nor were they Christians. I have yet to see many posts of yours showing the negativity of the religion of those that flew those planes. It seems your "crusades" are only pointing fingers at the Christian faith.

<font color="blue">It's true, Eg8r, I do tend to focus more on the negative influences of Christianity in this country than I do those of Muslims in countries where they are the majority. But make no mistake, I consider evil done in the name of religion to be inexcusable where ever it exists. There are no exemptions. </font color>

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
I think with the freedom of tax exemption some of these so-called Christian preachers are abusing their positions of power in order to amass personal wealth. <hr /></blockquote> There is nothing to think about, it is true there are some that are doing so. This is no different than any other tax exempt business where the one guy on top is making tons of money.

Is the issue of people amassing tons of money really the tax exempt portion or is it the fact that it is a religious person doing it?

<font color="blue">No, it's because I believe these guys are egregious con-men abusing their positions of power AND the current tax structure for their own ends, plain and simple. </font color>

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

S0Noma
01-23-2008, 10:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Many have called me out.

All have slunk away in shame with their tails between their legs. <hr /></blockquote> No, if you remember not that long ago the butt kicking you took from SONoma. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I guess he kicked your butt so hard you still have a little amnesia.

<font color="blue">He has a VERY selective memory &amp; no integrity. The combination creates the opportunity for the classic response: "It wasn't what you thought".

Don't expect him to acknowledge the truth of what you say. It simply doesn't fit with the image of a flawless strutting peacock that he strives to maintain in spite of all evidence to the contrary. </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

eg8r
01-23-2008, 10:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No, it's because I believe these guys are egregious con-men abusing their positions of power AND the current tax structure for their own ends, plain and simple.
<hr /></blockquote> I don't believe you are being completely honest here otherwise we would see more posts from you about other egregious con-men who are abusing their positions of power AND the current tax structure for their own ends. Religious organizations are not the only business that are tax exempt with money hungry leaders yet those are the only ones you are pointing out. You problem is not that they are con-men your problem is that you believe they are religious con-men. Boil it all down and your problem is with religion, Christian religion to be specific.

eg8r

Bobbyrx
01-23-2008, 10:26 AM
I think someone being and acting like a Christian and someone calling themselves a Christian (i.e. 99% of T.V. evangelists) and doing something in the name of Christianity (for their own benefit) are two completely different things

LWW
01-23-2008, 11:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote S0Noma:</font><hr> Not the first, nor that last. Your question was pointless and sophomoric and did not merit a response.

Please don't tell us that LWW the big blustering, insecure, bully who lives deep in the state of denial has returned to harangue the forum with his phony claims of prowess and past victories?

Spare us the pontificating harangue - it's boring, juvenile, unconvincing and a waste of everyone's time.

By now we all know who and what you are. Your lying about it isn't going to change our low opinion of you even one little bit. <hr /></blockquote>
You are already on the "BIG HAT NO CATTLE" list.

Don't blame me because you guys make completely derogatory and stupid accusations and then you get called out on it.

If you don't like it, here's how you stop it ... quit making derogatory and stupid accusations unless you have the testicular fortitude to stand behind it.

Cowardice is cowardice. Rude is rude. You both have displayed both.

The honorable thing to do would be to back up your talk or rescind it like gentleman.

I doubt that either of you have the character to do either.

LWW