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S0Noma
01-23-2008, 05:40 PM
Death Sentence for Afghan Student

By ABDUL WAHEED WAFA and CARLOTTA GALL
Published: January 24, 2008

KABUL, Afghanistan — An Afghan court in northern Afghanistan sentenced a journalism student to death for blasphemy for distributing an article from the Internet that was considered an insult to the Prophet Muhammad, the judge in charge of the court said Wednesday.

The student, Sayed Parwiz Kambakhsh, 23, who also works on a local newspaper, was charged with directly insulting Muhammad by calling the prophet “a killer and adulterer,” the judge, Shamsurahman Muhmand, said in a telephone interview.

The sentence was immediately denounced as unfair by Mr. Kambakhsh’s family and journalists’ organizations. Mr. Kambakhsh’s brother, Sayed Yaqub Ibrahimi, denied his brother had committed blasphemy, and said his brother was not given enough time to prepare his defense for the trial and was denied a defense lawyer.

Mr. Kambakhsh will have the right of appeal to the regional court and then the Supreme Court.

Mr. Kambakhsh is in fact being punished for articles written by his brother, Mr. Ibrahimi, said Jean Mackenzie, director for the Institute for Peace and War Reporting in Afghanistan, which has printed some of Mr. Ibrahimi’s stories. The day after his brother was arrested in October, officials from the National Directorate of Security raided Mr. Ibrahimi’s home and seized his computer hard drive, she said. They were most interested in the sources on a story that was critical of a local militia commander and parliamentarian called Piram Qol, she said.

Hearings of the case against Mr. Kambakhsh were delayed several times, until the provincial Council of Clerics met last week and called for the death sentence to be imposed on the student.

The case is the third time that clerics have called for the death sentence for a blasphemer in Afghanistan in the six years since the removal of the Taliban regime and reflects the deep conservatism that prevails in Afghan society even under the more liberal government of President Hamid Karzai.

In previous cases, those accused have either left the country and sought asylum abroad, or in one case an editor was absolved after government intervention. Yet mullahs have voiced increasingly strident complaints against the perceived corruption of society by foreign influence and in particular the influence of foreign television and film channels.

Mr. Muhmand, who is trained in religious law, headed a three-judge panel that heard Mr. Kambakhsh’s case in the primary civilian court in the town of Mazar-i-Sharif Tuesday. He denied that he was influenced by the call from clerics for the death sentence and said he judged the case according to the law.

Mr. Kambakhsh is a student at the faculty of journalism in Mazar-i-Sharif and also works for a daily paper, Jahan-e-Naw, as a reporter. He was accused of downloading a controversial article and adding some of his own paragraphs about the ignorance of the Prophet Muhammad on women’s rights.

“He confessed that he added three paragraphs to the article and distributed it to his classmates at the university,” Mr. Muhmand said.

The director of the Afghan Independent Journalists’ Association, Rahimullah Samander, said he was shocked to learn of the sentence and had already appealed to Mr. Karzai, Parliament and other officials, asking them to intervene.

“It was unfair and the case should have been referred to the commission of journalists’ offenses, based on the law on the media,” he said.

He said that the local government and the Council of Clerics had influenced the court’s decision as Mr. Kambakhsh and his brother, Mr. Ibrahimi, were often writing articles that were critical of the local government.

The case follows two previous incidents of journalists being accused of blasphemy in Afghanistan since 2001 and the installation of Mr. Karzai’s government. One concerned Ali Mohaqiq Nasab, the editor of a Kabul-based monthly women’s magazine, who was sentenced to two years imprisonment in October 2005 for blasphemy. He was later freed on appeal after intervention by the minister of information and culture.

web page (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/world/middleeast/24afghan.html?hp)

LWW
01-23-2008, 05:56 PM
And here I'd been told Islam was a harmless religion of peace?

LWW

S0Noma
01-23-2008, 06:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LWW:</font><hr> And here I'd been told Islam was a harmless religion of peace?

LWW <hr /></blockquote>

Well said! Sorry, I mean 'typically said'. Let's take one egregious act by fundamentalist Muslims and tar the entire Islamic faith, shall we?

Whereas if a Christian does something abominable in the name of his faith - let's all agree that he's 'not really a Christian' shall we?

Funny how that works.

S0Noma
01-23-2008, 06:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LWW:</font><hr> And here I'd been told Islam was a harmless religion of peace?

LWW <hr /></blockquote>

Well said! Sorry, I mean 'typically said'. Let's take one egregious act by fundamentalist Muslims and tar the entire Islamic faith, shall we?

Whereas if a Christian does something abominable in the name of his faith - let's all agree that he's 'not really a Christian' shall we?

Funny how that works.

LWW
01-23-2008, 06:11 PM
Sorry, but the site has not enough bandwidth to list them all ... but you knew that.

LWW

Drop1
01-23-2008, 08:31 PM
Those people need a good dose of Democracy. Now you take Mexico,we have only had one hundred sixty executions in the country,since the first of 2008. What is todays date?

eg8r
01-24-2008, 12:12 PM
You are being unfair. I don't remember anyone on this board stating the Christians in your posts were not really Christian.

eg8r

S0Noma
01-24-2008, 01:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> You are being unfair. I don't remember anyone on this board stating the Christians in your posts were not really Christian.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

It's a very common response, Ed. I'm almost certain that if I took the time to look it up I suspect I could provide you with at least one example from this fo.

It's been my experience that when people who call themselves 'Christians' are confronted with the obviously evil or illegal acts of other people who call themselves 'Christians' the most common response is for the confronted group to disavow the Christianity of the accused.

IE: Those aren't or weren't 'true' Christians - 'true' Christians don't act like that.

It gives people of belief an easy out and relieves them of the responsibility for the malevolent actions of those who claim to share their belief. It doesn't help the counter argument that Christianity has so little cohesion amongst its believers. I mean the fact that there are SO MANY different churches and religious groups each claiming to have the one best way to worship while the others are allegedly wrong to worship the way that they do. Catholics vs Protestants? Mormons vs (insert name of almost any other so-called Christian group here)? Protestants vs Protestants?

You know what I'm saying? Each of these groups or their splinter groups have the capacity to deny the sanctity of all the others and very often do. It's this capacity and inclination to deny the status of 'true believer' that also aids in rejecting anyone who claims to be religious but has obviously violated what are supposed to be their Christian tenets.

wolfdancer
01-24-2008, 01:52 PM
".....reflects the deep conservatism that prevails in Afghan society even under the more liberal government of President Hamid Karzai."
You see what could happen here if the conservatives finally wrest power from the liberals?
Then toss in a few rulings from the Old Testament....

bamadog
01-24-2008, 02:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote S0Noma:</font><hr>


It gives people of belief an easy out and relieves them of the responsibility for the malevolent actions of those who claim to share their belief.


<hr /></blockquote>

What responsibility do Christians bear for the actions of people claiming to be Christians?
Do you bear responsibility for actions of other atheists?

Gayle in MD
01-24-2008, 02:30 PM
They do the same thing on the conservative/liberal issue. Now that we can all see what a thorough dose of conservativism majority is looks like, the self proclaimed conservatives, deny that what we are seeing is in fact conservativism, and simply label all the failed Bush policies, and pork barrell spending the Republicans did, as liberal, and not really conservative at all.

Same tactics used by Christians.

In both instances, they need to wake up and realize reality. Faith, doesn't seem to be providing the fine up-standing citizens among those Republican Conservative Christians who are in the public eye, to say the least.

Gayle in Md.

bamadog
01-24-2008, 02:37 PM
So you condemn the $2billion in pork that Hillary has earmarked for her projects, most going to campaign contributers?

S0Noma
01-24-2008, 02:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bamadog:</font><hr>

What responsibility do Christians bear for the actions of people claiming to be Christians?

<font color="blue">Good question. What responsibility do moderate Muslims have for the actions of extremist Muslims? None? If not, who is there to police the actions of their fellow believers? No one? </font color>

Do you bear responsibility for actions of other atheists?

<font color="blue">A-theism is not a belief system. It is a lack of belief in a god or gods. There is very little cohesion among atheists with that one exception - they do not have sufficient reason to believe in a god or gods.

You do not call not believing in the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus - A-EasterBunnyism or A-SantaClausism because it would be pointless - ALL ADULTS have long since stopped believing in those fantasies. The atheist label only functions to designate the lack of belief in supernatural beings because there are SO-MANY adults who DO BELIEVE in them that it becomes useful to make that distinction.

Atheists are not carrying out terrorist attacks in the name of atheism - but people of faith certainly are. </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

eg8r
01-24-2008, 04:03 PM
Well, I have not seen much of that here at all. I have repeatedly stated all have sinned. I don't make judgements of others faith, but if I have in the past it was definitely a mistake on my part.

eg8r

nAz
01-24-2008, 04:24 PM
Islamic extremist is to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity.

LWW
01-24-2008, 04:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr>

Islamic extremist is to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity. <hr /></blockquote>
Good example.

The differenxce is that the rest of Christendom keeps their idjits in check.

Islam has as of yet failed to do this.

LWW

SKennedy
01-24-2008, 05:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bamadog:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote S0Noma:</font><hr>


It gives people of belief an easy out and relieves them of the responsibility for the malevolent actions of those who claim to share their belief.


<hr /></blockquote>

What responsibility do Christians bear for the actions of people claiming to be Christians?
Do you bear responsibility for actions of other atheists? <hr /></blockquote>

He's right SONoma. In the end, all this proves is that people, in general, and regardless of their faith or lack thereof, are not honorable beings. We are sinful by nature.....All of us...aehteists, muslims, christians, and all others. It is by our faith or lack of it that determines our opinions and the consequences of our actions. I am a christian and I certainly have done things that were not "christian-like." But, that is between me and my God. Your belief, or lack of, and your ability to live within certain tenets, etc. is between you and your God....(or whatever). My fellow christians don't answer to me. They answer to the law of their land and the legal civil authorities, and ultimately to their God, if there is one....

SKennedy
01-24-2008, 05:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LWW:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr>

The differenxce is that the rest of Christendom keeps their idjits in check.

LWW <hr /></blockquote>

Wrong...we are not better than they in this area. Your history must be a little foggy today. We have many more examples other than the KKK. Our extremists groups are just not as well organized or as wealthy to be able to tackle powerful nations. At least not yet.....

hondo
01-24-2008, 06:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr>

Islamic extremist is to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity.


<hr /></blockquote>

Excellent post, nAZ.

LWW
01-24-2008, 07:43 PM
Oh please.

Show me anything approaching the level of arab terrorism by christian groups.

It ain't there.

LWW

LWW
01-24-2008, 07:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr>

Islamic extremist is to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity.


<hr /></blockquote>

Excellent post, nAZ. <hr /></blockquote>
And Robert Byrd is to the Klan what Ramzi Yousef (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzi_Yousef) is to Al Qaeda.

Both are forum recruiters for murderous fascist groups who now claim to have seen the light and become born again.

The veracity of that is between them and their creator, but both have shown a capability for evil that would never allow me to trust them with any authority or to walk the streets as free men.

LWW

bamadog
01-24-2008, 09:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote S0Noma:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bamadog:</font><hr>

What responsibility do Christians bear for the actions of people claiming to be Christians?


<font color="blue">Good question. What responsibility do moderate Muslims have for the actions of extremist Muslims? None? If not, who is there to police the actions of their fellow believers? No one? </font color>

Do you bear responsibility for actions of other atheists?

<font color="blue">A-theism is not a belief system. It is a lack of belief in a god or gods. There is very little cohesion among atheists with that one exception - they do not have sufficient reason to believe in a god or gods.

You do not call not believing in the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus - A-EasterBunnyism or A-SantaClausism because it would be pointless - ALL ADULTS have long since stopped believing in those fantasies. The atheist label only functions to designate the lack of belief in supernatural beings because there are SO-MANY adults who DO BELIEVE in them that it becomes useful to make that distinction.

Atheists are not carrying out terrorist attacks in the name of atheism - but people of faith certainly are. </font color>

<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

Are you going to answer my question?

You said "It gives people of belief an easy out and relieves them of the responsibility for the malevolent actions of those who claim to share their belief."

Do you believe that Christians are responsible for actions done in the name of Christianity?
Because it sounds like you do.

SKennedy
01-24-2008, 09:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LWW:</font><hr> Oh please.

Show me anything approaching the level of arab terrorism by christian groups.

It ain't there.

LWW <hr /></blockquote>

Don't think I said it was there. My point was that the KKK does not stand alone. There are others and were certainly those in the past that we should not be proud of. I am not comparing Islam to Christianity, but to just say the KKK is the only group is certainly not true.

LWW
01-25-2008, 03:37 AM
AQ isn't the only terrorist nutjob group out there either.

That doesn't change the fact that I can't recall any Methodists slamming planes into buildings, or Lutheran head slicing groups.

Christians go after the kooks amongst them. Islam, for whatever reason, in general does not ... and in many cases cheers them on.

LWW

S0Noma
01-25-2008, 03:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bamadog:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote S0Noma:</font><hr>
Are you going to answer my question?

You said "It gives people of belief an easy out and relieves them of the responsibility for the malevolent actions of those who claim to share their belief."

Do you believe that Christians are responsible for actions done in the name of Christianity?

<font color="blue">Ideally? Absolutely.

In an ideal world I would like to see Christians take responsibility for the destructive actions done in the name of Christianity. I would also like to see Muslims take full responsibility for the atrocities done in the name of their faith.

However, we do not live in an ideal world and I do not see a practical means for this to happen with any religious group - or nationality for that matter. Hence it's not a realistic expectation.

This kind of question really has many parallels - a comparable question for example might be: Are Americans responsible for the actions undertaken by the United States? Were the WWII era Germans responsible for the actions undertaken by the Nazis?

Behind each question lies a deeper one: When you see injustice or evil being done in the name of the group to which you adhere and you do not speak out - does your silence constitute a form of tacit approval? </font color> <hr /></blockquote>