PDA

View Full Version : Eg8r, here's another one for you -



S0Noma
01-23-2008, 06:04 PM
Three Little Pigs 'too offensive'

By Sean Coughlan
BBC News, education


The judges said this depiction of a pig "raised cultural issues"

A story based on the Three Little Pigs has been turned down from a government agency's annual awards because the subject matter could offend Muslims.

The digital book, re-telling the classic fairy tale, was rejected by judges who warned that "the use of pigs raises cultural issues".

Becta, the government's educational technology agency, is a leading partner in the annual schools award.

The judges also attacked Three Little Cowboy Builders for offending builders.

The book's creative director, Anne Curtis, said that the idea that including pigs in a story could be interpreted as racism was "like a slap in the face".

'Cultural issues'

The CD-Rom digital version of the traditional story of the three little pigs, called Three Little Cowboy Builders, is aimed at primary school children.

But judges at this year's Bett Award said that they had "concerns about the Asian community and the use of pigs raises cultural issues".

The Three Little Cowboy Builders has already been a prize winner at the recent Education Resource Award - but its Newcastle-based publishers, Shoo-fly were turned down by the Bett Award panel.

The feedback from the judges explaining why they had rejected the CD-Rom highlighted that they "could not recommend this product to the Muslim community".

They also warned that the story might "alienate parts of the workforce (building trade)".

The judges criticised the stereotyping in the story of the unfortunate pigs: "Is it true that all builders are cowboys, builders get their work blown down, and builders are like pigs?"

Animal Farm?

Ms Curtis said that rather than preventing the spread of racism, such an attitude was likely to inflame ill-feeling. As another example, she says would that mean that secondary schools could not teach Animal Farm because it features pigs?

Her company is committed to an ethical approach to business and its products promote a message of mutual respect, she says - and banning such traditional stories will "close minds rather than open them".

Becta, the government funded agency responsible for technology in schools and colleges, says that it is standing by the judges' verdict.

"Becta with its partners is responsible for the judging criteria against which the 70 independent judges, mostly practising teachers, comment. All the partners stick by the judging criteria," said a Becta spokesman.

The reason that this product was not shortlisted was because "it failed to reach the required standard across a number of criteria", said the spokesman.

Becta runs the awards with the Besa trade association and show organisers, Emap Education.

Merlin John, author of an educational technology website which highlighted the story, warns that such rulings can undermine the credibility of the awards.

"When benchmarks are undermined by pedestrian and pedantic tick lists, and by inflexible, unhelpful processes, it can tarnish the achievements of even the most worthy winners.

"It's time for a rethink, and for Becta to listen to the criticisms that have been ignored for a number of years," said Mr John.

web page (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7204635.stm)

LWW
01-23-2008, 06:13 PM
And what is this supposed to be evidence of ... besides left wing PC idiocy?

LWW

Drop1
01-23-2008, 08:17 PM
I wonder if "little Black Sambo" would have been pitched out?

LWW
01-23-2008, 08:29 PM
Probably. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The problem with PC is that it allows for legal theft through litigation that is virtually defense proof.

What can you possibly do that won't offend a single person in a nation of 300,000,000+ people?

LWW

LWW

hondo
01-24-2008, 07:16 AM
I didn't realize PC was left wing?
I must be right wing then cause I'm definitely not PC!

S0Noma
01-24-2008, 10:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LWW:</font><hr> And what is this supposed to be evidence of ... besides left wing PC idiocy?

LWW <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Glad you asked - and your lame swipe at an imaginary left wing bogeyman foe is noted. As per usual you only delve skin deep before firing off a predictable, boring, knee jerk reaction. Just once it would be refreshing to see you let go of your attachment to conservative rhetoric long enough to put some genuine thought into your response.

FYI: It's evidence of an over-reaction on the part of people in a position of power concerned about offending Muslims.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the Muslim faith is just a bunch of made-up BS that gets way too much undeserved attention. It's a bad sign when the prospect of insulting that religion invokes fear in people who then pander to their fear by caving to it's ridiculous religious standards.

Now, just in case you don't get my point, here's an example of something similar that happened in this country recently. Only in this case, Christian values were insulted - after which the well intentioned but misguided PC police stepped in to try and rectify the situation.

Mind you, for me, both Christianity and the Muslim faith constitute 'made up stuff' - and I don't see any more reason to pander to the local Christians than I do to pandering to the local Muslims.

You, on the other hand, may feel otherwise based on your personal belief system.</font color>

<font color="green">Bible incident draws concerns

JANESVILLE — A Parker High School student tore pages from a Bible in class earlier this month, raising constitutional and ethical issues for school officials and his classmates.

Some students were upset, while others rallied to the cause of free speech.

The student was suspended, his mother said. She was told he couldn’t return to school until he had undergone a psychological evaluation. He was out of school for a week.

“They wanted to make sure he was safe,” the mother said, but she believes he was never a threat to anyone.

In the wake of the suspension, three students wore T-shirts with words supporting the student’s free speech rights.

Parker officials had the three remove the shirts because they could have caused a disruption, said Principal Dale Carlson.

One student set up an Internet conversation site to discuss the incident, and according to postings on that site, the T-shirts read: “So long as a man thinks, he is free,” “Bring (the student’s name) back” and “Those who mind do not matter, and those who matter do not mind.”

Carlson said the plea to bring the student back was the objectionable part of the T-shirts’ message.

Officials believed it was likely that the shirts’ reference to the Bible incident would have caused a disruption “with other students that were involved in this incident,” Carlson said.

Carlson would not confirm the suspension. He said his decisions in the matter were not tied specifically to the ripping of the Bible pages and that other circumstances played into the decision to deal with the student and his family.

The boy’s mother said her son was delivering a speech about a paper he had written for an English class. She said she was “not happy” that her son was disciplined for expressing himself in a class assignment.

The mother said she also wasn’t happy her son ripped the Bible or with the language he used.

“I’m a Christian. He was raised a Christian,” she said. “But he’s struggling right now, and that’s fine.”

Kids should be able to speak their minds, “and I don’t think they helped the matter by suspending my child,” she said.

District officials requested an opinion on the matter from their legal counsel, attorney David Moore. The Janesville Gazette obtained a copy of the opinion, which described the Bible incident.

The opinion states that a student was giving a presentation in class that involved his opposition to religion.

“In the course of doing so, he stated that no word of the Bible is true, that those who thought so were ‘idiots,’ that he would prove that persons in the class were ‘ignoramuses for believing in the Bible,’ and that the Bible was written by ‘a bunch of old Mesopotamian men with sand up their (expletive.)’

“He further said, ‘See, I can do this to the Bible and not be harmed because it is not true,’ and then proceeded to rip pages out of a Bible,” according to the document.

“Certain parents and students have understandably raised objections to the student’s conduct,” Moore’s opinion continues. “They have framed the question presented in terms of whether Parker High School will permit a student to rip up a Bible in class.”

Moore’s legal opinion is that a student can’t be disciplined only for ripping the Bible, but the school could discipline him for using offensive language and for promoting “negative stereotyping that degrades or flagrantly demeans any individual or group by negatively referring to religion.”

Students have a constitutional right to free expression Moore wrote, but that right must be balanced with the legal rights of other students “not to be denied the benefit of educational programs or discriminated against on the basis of religion.

“In addition, the school has the right to maintain order and discipline ...”

However, “the act of ripping up a Bible, in and of itself, is a form of (constitutionally) protected expression,” Moore wrote.

The student’s actions and words did not rise to the level of a crime, in the opinion of the police officer assigned to the school, Scott Wasemiller.

Wasemiller said he was involved in a meeting with the student and his parents but made no arrest or citation.

http://gazettextra.com/news/2007/dec/20/bible-incident-draws-concerns/? </font color>

LWW
01-24-2008, 10:33 AM
So, you dispute the existence of left wing PC idiocy, and a s proof you offer up one of the best examples of left wing PC idiocy ever witnessed.

That's rich dude, it really is.

Next on SONoma ... Baptists playing Rook is equivalent to Islamist beheadings.

LWW

S0Noma
01-24-2008, 11:36 AM
Nope, not disputing the existence of PC idiocy - right or left wings notwithstanding. I was trying (to no avail obviously - surprise! surprise!) to point out to you that religious beliefs continue to raise their ugly little heads in this world, demanding attention and respect that they do not deserve.

To put it bluntly, I don't think the story of 'The Three Little Pigs' needs to be censored to avoid hurting the feelings of the poor, sensitive Muslims any more than I think a kid needs to be tossed out of high school for tearing a few pages out of a book and offending a few sensitive Christians. Both actions are detestable in their own right.

That you can't see past the end of your apparently very short politically biased nose long enough to grasp this rather simple concept?

Speaks volumes for your lack of perception.

LWW
01-24-2008, 12:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote S0Noma:</font><hr>To put it bluntly, I don't think the story of 'The Three Little Pigs' needs to be censored to avoid hurting the feelings of the poor, sensitive Muslims any more than I think a kid needs to be tossed out of high school for tearing a few pages out of a book and offending a few sensitive Christians.<hr /></blockquote>
Sir,

What shows a total lack of perception is that you cannot wrap your mind around the idea people drop things like the "THREE LITTLE PIGS" because they fear Islamofascist head slicers while they don't fear Christians because they pray for the offenders.

Big difference.

Anyone but a dhimmi can see it ... and I think the dhimmis do, but they fear standing up to the headslicers and accept their faith.

It happened across North Africa, up into Asia Minor and SE Europe, and into India.

It's coming back to Europe and here.

Failure to see this is forestalling a smaller confrontation in favor of Armageddon down the road.

LWW

eg8r
01-24-2008, 12:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Sir,

What shows a total lack of perception is that you cannot wrap your mind around the idea people drop things like the "THREE LITTLE PIGS" because they fear Islamofascist head slicers while they don't fear Christians because they pray for the offenders.

Big difference.
<hr /></blockquote> You are arguing a strawman. My guess is that you might not even fully understand the only reason why SONoma posted this thread to begin with. Had it not been for my posts referencing SONoma's crusade on anti-religious topics, namely Christians, this would not have surfaced.

He is spelling out his point for you which you are ignoring and then you are going off arguing the strawman you propped up.

eg8r

LWW
01-24-2008, 01:01 PM
Well, that actually brought some sense to it ... and no I don't read every post in every thread.

That being said, the attempt to equate the two religions as equally dangerous is ludicrous.

LWW

S0Noma
01-24-2008, 01:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt; You are arguing a strawman. My guess is that you might not even fully understand the only reason why SONoma posted this thread to begin with. Had it not been for my posts referencing SONoma's crusade on anti-religious topics, namely Christians, this would not have surfaced.

<font color="blue">That's correct, Ed, hence the title of the post. Keeping in mind that the resident zealot is not interested in discussing anything that doesn't forward his extreme political agenda? I'm not surprised he chose to ignore that detail. </font color>

He is spelling out his point for you which you are ignoring...

<font color="blue">Very perceptive observation. The irony here is that LWW is most guilty of doing the very things of which he accuses others (hence my comment about the 'mirror' that he holds up): He ignores points if they don't conform to his beliefs and starts foaming at the mouth in his haste to barf up yet another tired extremist stereotype that has little or nothing to do with what was said.

He's a one man propaganda machine and that's the truth. </font color>


and then you are going off arguing the strawman you propped up.

<font color="blue">An argument that impresses no one but his faithful choir, I might add. </font color>

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

S0Noma
01-24-2008, 01:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LWW:</font><hr> Well, that actually brought some sense to it ... and no I don't read every post in every thread.

That being said, the attempt to equate the two religions as equally dangerous is ludicrous.

LWW <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Oh dear me - is the world really so simple for you as all that? Not once did I "...attempt to equate the two religions as being equally dangerous.." and it's utterly disingenuous of you (albeit predictable) to imply that I was.

I told you what my point was - religious people being placated - that was it. Not arguing who is in a more primitive state - obviously the fundamentalist Muslims are far more overtly lethal than their fundamentalist Christian counter-parts. But BOTH groups are expecting others to conform their behaviors to please them. You may say, 'Phuck the extremist Muslims - stop placating them!' &amp; I might fully agree - but I might say, 'Phuck the fundamentalist Christians - stop placating them!' and you, because of your allegiance to your Christian beliefs might certainly be inclined to disagree.

Based on my perception that it's ALL just a bunch of made up $hit in the first place, NEITHER group deserves to be placated.

You want to spin that into some BS anti-left wing PC argument? Don't waste my time. You want to claim that Christians are totally harmless and deserve to be placated while the Muslims aren't? Mount a convincing argument and we'll talk about it. Until then, do us both a favor and STFU - I do NOT need any more of your extremist rhetoric - had more than my fill as have most of the other members of this forum. </font color>

eg8r
01-24-2008, 04:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
He's a one man propaganda machine and that's the truth.
<hr /></blockquote> Like it or not lww balance's out gayle's rants.

eg8r

eg8r
01-24-2008, 04:19 PM
I applaud the fact that you admit you were wrong. [ QUOTE ]
That being said, the attempt to equate the two religions as equally dangerous is ludicrous. <hr /></blockquote> This is just another strawman you have propped up.

eg8r

S0Noma
01-24-2008, 04:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> I applaud the fact that you admit you were wrong. &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
That being said, the attempt to equate the two religions as equally dangerous is ludicrous. <hr /></blockquote> This is just another strawman you have propped up.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Kinda funny don't you think Ed? I mean that the man who screams STRAWMAN every time he gets backed into a corner that he can't get out - creates more straw man arguments than anyone in this forum. It's that mirror thing, I tell ya. He holds it up to himself and then projects what he sees onto everyone else but him. He's been been doing it since he arrived. It's actually kind of predictable (read that: boring) once you come to understand his patterns. </font color>

LWW
01-24-2008, 04:48 PM
No, that's the assumption I've formed after reading several threads he has participated in.

If he says it's inaccurate I'll believe that ... but it certainly hasn't came across that way.

LWW