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Troy
08-03-2002, 04:15 PM
Scenario -- $50 entry, race to 3, double elim. Middle of the early rounds, winner's side.
Score tied at 2.
Player "A" owes one ball. (Fairly well known local player)
Player "B" has 4-5 balls. (Fairly well known player in many places, maybe even nationally)

After a good amount of back-and-forth safety play, Player "A" runs 8 balls. After making the 8th ball, Player "B" gets up from his chair with hand outstretched as if offering congratulations. Since "A" was at the far end of the table, he said "Thank you" and raked the few remaining balls toward the foot area.
Player "B" then spoke up about "A" owing a ball.

As TD, I ruled that "B" had conceeded when he got up from his chair with outstretched hand.

The Room owner over-ruled me telling them to replay the game.

"A" won the "6th" game (Race to 3) anyway, 8-2 or so.

What is the general concensus on how I called the situation ??

Thanks..... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Troy

cheesemouse
08-03-2002, 04:47 PM
The room owner was out of line, as TD you should have overuled the owner point blank.

Troy
08-03-2002, 04:59 PM
I made my ruling and was over-ruled by the owner.
I should have added that the Room owner was also my employer.

Troy...~~~ Ex-Employer..... He can run his own tourneys now.



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr> The room owner was out of line, as TD you should have overuled the owner point blank. <hr></blockquote>

cheesemouse
08-03-2002, 05:11 PM
Congradulations for sticking-up for a good principle: I've seen 't's run by committee and it don't work, the TD is King.

Chris Cass
08-03-2002, 09:36 PM
Hi Troy,

It is my opinion that sleepers don't count. That's total baloney. IMO Don't know the rules but the TD has final call always.

Regards,

C.C.

Rip
08-03-2002, 09:44 PM
Troy, you called it right imo. It sounds like the room owner might have been slightly intimidated due to the quality of players involved and decided to play it safe which, of course, made you look bad. The room owner should check Ebay for a deal on "stones". Rip

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Troy:</font><hr> Scenario -- $50 entry, race to 3, double elim. Middle of the early rounds, winner's side.
Score tied at 2.
Player "A" owes one ball. (Fairly well known local player)
Player "B" has 4-5 balls. (Fairly well known player in many places, maybe even nationally)

After a good amount of back-and-forth safety play, Player "A" runs 8 balls. After making the 8th ball, Player "B" gets up from his chair with hand outstretched as if offering congratulations. Since "A" was at the far end of the table, he said "Thank you" and raked the few remaining balls toward the foot area.
Player "B" then spoke up about "A" owing a ball.

As TD, I ruled that "B" had conceeded when he got up from his chair with outstretched hand.

The Room owner over-ruled me telling them to replay the game.

"A" won the "6th" game (Race to 3) anyway, 8-2 or so.

What is the general concensus on how I called the situation ??

Thanks..... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Troy


<hr></blockquote>

NH_Steve
08-04-2002, 07:07 AM
Boy, that's a tough one for a tourney director.
From a player point of view, my first choice would be to replace the balls -- which doesn't sound possible in your situation. Next choice would be to accept the concession, which was your ruling.

Reminds me of something that happened in a game last week, in the middle of a race to 3 set of one pocket. I needed 8, my opponent needed a 'few'; the balls were open and in play. I took a risky bank and missed, leaving an easy shot for him to wrap up the game. I spoke up to conceed, but he approached the table to shoot anyway, so I asked him how many he needed (I know, I'm supposed to know that already, at all times!). It turned out to be 4 balls, which was more than I had thought, so I let him shoot away. He ended up hooking himself on his game ball, and had to play a safety, leaving me needing 8 and him needing 1, but with the balls still very much in play.

Then he illustrated why it is so important to get the balls out of play if you have a lead like that, 'cuz he didn't, and a few shots later I ran 4 balls &amp; played safe. He still failed to thouroughly get the balls out of play and I got to needing 2. Eventually I won after a protracted end game battle.

That was a major momentum shift, and I went on to win the set. Even though I had not pushed to continue the game -- he had declined my concession offer &amp; continued to shoot -- naturally I'll shoot too, in that case!

A long time ago I developed a special way of accepting my opponent's 'concession', that let them know in no uncertain terms that I accepted their concession, but without actually disturbing the balls in play -- in case there was a dispute about whether in fact they really were conceeding. I started this after getting tired of occasionally finding myself sharked into missing the 9-ball. For example, when: one particular opponent with the habit of picking up the rack and approaching the foot of the table with it, while I'm still shooting the 9!; when they unscrew their cue; when they pull out their cash; when they start walking around and talking like they just lost, even though you haven't actually shot yet.

I 'accept' their concession by reaching into a pocket and dumping balls on the table ostensibly for the next rack (but actually being carefull NOT to disturb actual balls in play, in case they have a legit argument). Generally they do follow through on their concession at that point. (I did have one guy argue once, and I told him if he wanted me to shoot, then he had to stay sat down and shut up while I shot. He threaten to 'squash me like a bug', but ended up throwing the $ on the table, and I got out whole -- but it did teach me a lesson about risk vs game in the poolroom -- I prefer game /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif )