PDA

View Full Version : My night out at the IPT event



freddythebeard
01-24-2008, 02:15 PM
I was one of the 50 invitees to the Bustamonte/Duel Internet match game last night. I would first like to say how amazed I am at all the criticism leveled at last night's festivities by so many AZ forum contributors. With all the beefing and squawking about the sound, and interruptions caused by a problem with the Internet streaming company in Calif., something that the IPT had absolutely no control over, you would think that the IPT was charging a Pay Per View price to see the show. It was a freebie, fellas, a freebie. Sheez. An ambitious, expensive attempt to get something started again for pool players. I, for one, had a good time. In my view the whole operation was a first class operation. The 50 sweators were treated to a lavish free buffet of food and drink before the match. Pizza from Giordano's, Italian Beef, Sausage, Poor Boy sandwiches, and salad. They had a sexy waitress bringing in free drinks all during the match. When I asked Grady if the IPT had finished paying off all their old debts to the players, he said the final payment went out and now everybody has gotten their money. Terrific, if true. With so much groaning about the IPT payouts I think back to my Johnston City days whereby you would have to stay 3 weeks and beat the 64 best players in the world to win $2000 for each event and $2000 for the all-around. I was dumb enough back then to think that that was generous. That should give you some idea of how poor other pool payouts were at that time. Those of you who watched the match online surely must have noticed the bevy of lovelies that were flitting around; The score girl, the director, the waitress, Bustamonte's 3 Filipino girlfriends, Rachel Abbink, and about 8 or 9 more beauties that had my old pal Mike Sigel thinking about getting hair plugs.
The best part, however, was the match itself. Bustamonte shot the numbers off the balls. Man, did he play good! Corey didn't really play badly, but Busty was breaking so good that Corey didn't get to the table often enough to win. On that slow IPT cloth, Busty was shattering the balls with his break. They're gonna do it all again on Mar. 5th. Hopefully, they will have the streaming problems ironed out by then. No matter, I'm still looking forward to the next one.

The Beard,

(Jeez, I just realized that this post is so IPT positive, maybe Trudeau might give me a job, or at least a couple of free self-help books.)

Nader
01-24-2008, 07:08 PM
I watched that match on the internet for about 10 minutes. (bubble-debub) and it was(flbblub) torture (blibit). I tried to put up with the sound problems but I'd sooner listen to a dentist drill teeth. So some problems need to be worked out, big deal. IPT sent me an e-mail saying that they are going to do something about it. That's all I can ask. Am I mad at IPT?; not at all. (blank) happens. As soon as they can get it up on the net, I'll watch it. It's free for Pete's sake.
Nader

Rich R.
01-25-2008, 12:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote freddythebeard:</font><hr>I would first like to say how amazed I am at all the criticism leveled at last night's festivities by so many AZ forum contributors. <hr /></blockquote>
Now you know why many of us have stopped going to the AZ forum. All they do is complain about everything, for no good reason.

I was out, playing pool, and I didn't get to watch the event, but I do plan on watching it, when it becomes available on the IPT web site. I won't be complaining about a free event.

BigRigTom
01-25-2008, 02:08 AM
I watched the 4 racks and it was FB 3 CD 1 when I had to leave.
I had trouble with the sound but I thought it was on my end so I just endured it for the short time I watched.
I would have watched the whole thing if I could have.

I hope they will fix the stuff they need to fix and do another match real soon....I'll watch it too.

Some of the stuff you talked about at the AZB is what prompted me to start the BAT-Forum, I don't know why people have to be they way they are but there are always alternatives and there always will be.

Fran Crimi
01-25-2008, 07:50 AM
Hey Freddy,

Sounds like you had some fun. What's your take on why they're showing the matches for free?

Fran

freddythebeard
01-25-2008, 08:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Hey Freddy,

Sounds like you had some fun. What's your take on why they're showing the matches for free?

Firstly, Hi Fran, secondly, the difference in perspective on this forum and AZ is amazing (and refreshing). All I wanted to do with my original post on AZ was detail my experience at the IPT event, and for me it was positive. I had a good time. For daring to relate a pleasant experience re the IPT, I was called everything from an IPT Whor* (really!) to a paid lackey for Kevin Trudeau. Jeez fellas, I'm sorry I enjoyed myself. Re your question Fran, Kevin, Deno and the IPT want to regenerate interest in the org. and maybe get it restarted. Common sense tells you that, since they have now paid all the players off totally. But since they lost so much credibility earlier, and they are no longer trusted, they have to start everything out for free. Ok, thats fine, lets give them a chance as long as it don't cost us nothing, and lets see where this goes. I don't know about the big tournaments, but this match internet stuff is exciting. This figures to get big all by itself. Incidentally, everybody there had a good time and all are scrambling to get reinvited to the next one on Mar 5th.


the Beard


Fran <hr /></blockquote>

wolfdancer
01-25-2008, 09:15 AM
Thanks for the update...sounds like you had a good time, and were treated to some good shooting, besides the eye candy.
Your book, by the way, is great. I'd recommend it to anyone

Deeman3
01-25-2008, 09:29 AM
Freddy,

Nice to see you posting over here. You will find a more civil bunch on this forum and we would all love to see you post more.

Like Wolfdancer, I really like your book and am looking forward to your DVD's on "Banks that won't go, but do!" I ment to pick them up at Derby City but left without doing so.

dr_dave
01-25-2008, 10:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote freddythebeard:</font><hr> I was one of the 50 invitees to the Bustamonte/Duel Internet match game last night. I would first like to say how amazed I am at all the criticism leveled at last night's festivities by so many AZ forum contributors. With all the beefing and squawking about the sound, and interruptions caused by a problem with the Internet streaming company in Calif., something that the IPT had absolutely no control over, you would think that the IPT was charging a Pay Per View price to see the show. It was a freebie, fellas, a freebie. Sheez. An ambitious, expensive attempt to get something started again for pool players. I, for one, had a good time. In my view the whole operation was a first class operation. The 50 sweators were treated to a lavish free buffet of food and drink before the match. Pizza from Giordano's, Italian Beef, Sausage, Poor Boy sandwiches, and salad. They had a sexy waitress bringing in free drinks all during the match. When I asked Grady if the IPT had finished paying off all their old debts to the players, he said the final payment went out and now everybody has gotten their money. Terrific, if true. With so much groaning about the IPT payouts I think back to my Johnston City days whereby you would have to stay 3 weeks and beat the 64 best players in the world to win $2000 for each event and $2000 for the all-around. I was dumb enough back then to think that that was generous. That should give you some idea of how poor other pool payouts were at that time. Those of you who watched the match online surely must have noticed the bevy of lovelies that were flitting around; The score girl, the director, the waitress, Bustamonte's 3 Filipino girlfriends, Rachel Abbink, and about 8 or 9 more beauties that had my old pal Mike Sigel thinking about getting hair plugs.
The best part, however, was the match itself. Bustamonte shot the numbers off the balls. Man, did he play good! Corey didn't really play badly, but Busty was breaking so good that Corey didn't get to the table often enough to win. On that slow IPT cloth, Busty was shattering the balls with his break. They're gonna do it all again on Mar. 5th. Hopefully, they will have the streaming problems ironed out by then. No matter, I'm still looking forward to the next one.

The Beard,

(Jeez, I just realized that this post is so IPT positive, maybe Trudeau might give me a job, or at least a couple of free self-help books.)<hr /></blockquote>Freddy,

Thank you for your report. I am with you on this one. I have always been positive on the IPT, and I still hope they can continue to turn things around and become a success ... for themselves and for the players.

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave
01-25-2008, 10:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>... What's your take on why they're showing the matches for free?<hr /></blockquote>Fran,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I am detecting a cynical tone here. Of course, being honest, the IPT is in it for the money. They hope to generate interest and get more paying members on their website. If they can continue to do this, and maybe start up some sponsored, revenue-generating tournaments, they will make money and survive. If they can't, then they are history.

Personally, I hope the IPT becomes successful and makes lots of money; because if they do, the players will benefit and the fans will be able to watch lots of great 8-ball on TV and on the Internet. To me, pro 8-ball is much more interesting than pro 9-ball.

Respectfully,
Dave

Artemus
01-25-2008, 11:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote freddythebeard:</font><hr>
the difference in perspective on this forum and AZ is amazing (and refreshing). All I wanted to do with my original post on AZ was detail my experience at the IPT event, and for me it was positive. I had a good time. For daring to relate a pleasant experience re the IPT, I was called everything from an IPT Whor* (really!) to a paid lackey for Kevin Trudeau.

the Beard
<hr /></blockquote>

You just haven't been sniffed out yet. The same ones that snarled and barked there are like bloodhounds, they'll pick up the scent eventually.

Fran Crimi
01-25-2008, 12:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote freddythebeard:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Hey Freddy,

Sounds like you had some fun. What's your take on why they're showing the matches for free?

Firstly, Hi Fran, secondly, the difference in perspective on this forum and AZ is amazing (and refreshing). All I wanted to do with my original post on AZ was detail my experience at the IPT event, and for me it was positive. I had a good time. For daring to relate a pleasant experience re the IPT, I was called everything from an IPT Whor* (really!) to a paid lackey for Kevin Trudeau. Jeez fellas, I'm sorry I enjoyed myself. Re your question Fran, Kevin, Deno and the IPT want to regenerate interest in the org. and maybe get it restarted. Common sense tells you that, since they have now paid all the players off totally. But since they lost so much credibility earlier, and they are no longer trusted, they have to start everything out for free. Ok, thats fine, lets give them a chance as long as it don't cost us nothing, and lets see where this goes. I don't know about the big tournaments, but this match internet stuff is exciting. This figures to get big all by itself. Incidentally, everybody there had a good time and all are scrambling to get reinvited to the next one on Mar 5th.


the Beard


Fran <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

Cool, Freddy. Thanks for the insight. I was thinking maybe they're trying to work out the bugs of the live broadcasting thing. I keep hearing buzz around that the live streaming thing is not quite perfected. Some say we're close but not quite there yet to where it could be as good as a live TV broadcast. It will be interesting to see how it progresses. I'm sure it will play a big role in the future of our industry.

Fran

wolfdancer
01-25-2008, 01:25 PM
I had minimal trouble watching last year's DCC via streaming video....they should be able to work it out for the next event....

canadan
01-26-2008, 10:16 AM
after seeing all the free vids they have online for paying members I think I cop up the $6...I liked the match, it was great playn by Busta..3 GF eh nice I even like him more now ahhaa...anyone a payn member? would like to know if the vids are able to be seen in full screen or just the smaller window...hard to watch from a few feet away.

071838
01-26-2008, 10:31 AM
I was there, too, and I agree with Freddy 100%. The flak he caught at AZBilliards is ridiculous. How this got to be a rant on Trudeau's ethics, Freddy's morals, and the relative merits of pizza is anybody's guess. In person, it was a terrific event, with excellent food, a fine venue, and sensational pool. If you got impatient with the server's breaking down, all you had to do was walk away from your computer; you weren't paying anything for the videocast to begin with, and can still see the match uninterrupted now. Without comment as to the IPT's plans or future, I can tell you without reservation that I look forward to the next of these challenge matches. GF

Fran Crimi
01-26-2008, 12:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> I had minimal trouble watching last year's DCC via streaming video....they should be able to work it out for the next event.... <hr /></blockquote>

Yes and no. It's my understanding that the technology isn't quite there yet for broadcast quality live streaming. It's erratic. You may even see an entire live match that looks fine, so you get the impression that the bugs are fixed, but not necessarily.

Prerecorded stuff is not as much of a problem.

The entire industry is watching and waiting. As soon as it's perfected, I'm guessing you're going to see lots of opportunities for watching matches live. It'll be very exciting for the game. People are being cautious right now about charging any or too much money for watching live events because of the imperfections.

I think it's a smart move for Trudeau not to charge right now for live streaming. Can you imagine people paying for it only to find erratic sound? They would probably be less tolerant than with someone else who charges a nominal fee. Like Freddy says, he doesn't need any more black marks on his record. He needs to be careful.

Fran

jjinfla
01-27-2008, 08:13 AM
Hi Freddie,

Now you know how I have felt for the past couple of years. I went to Orlando and thought it was great and talked about all the positive things that Kevin was doing and all I got was grief over at AZB which eventually led to my being banned. I was told by the banner that I had "a big mouth". I suppose they didn't want to hear the positive things about the IPT.

They had pretty women at Orlando too. Kevin sure does know how to enjoy himself.

Pool players are fools; jealous fools. Always complaining and never doing anything to help. Here they a have a great meal ticket and what do they do but criticize him when it would be so easy to look at the bright side. And Kevin sure did provide many bright sides. At least now some of the players realize how good Kevin can be for pool, and for themselves, and are starting to speak up for the IPT. If and when the IPT comes back I hope it will be an invitational tournament and all the naysayers can stay home and drown in their beers.

Anyway, I watched the Corey - Django match last night. I was actually surprised at the good quality of the picture. Sure, it had problems but they were minor. Mike's mike went out and I could barely hear him. Hey, that might be a positive. Just kidding because I like listening to Mike.

Like you said, the match was supurb. In the 23 games what were there, maybe two misses? Not counting breaks. I wonder how accu stats would have rated them? It is trully amazing at how good these guys are.

I have been around since the beginning of TV and I remember how awful it was then and how we all thought it was great. People now just want perfection. From other people that is, never from themselves.

I haven't been at AZB lately, I will have to go and read what they said about you. Most likely it will be the same few ranting about how things should be run.

Jake

freddythebeard
01-29-2008, 06:41 AM
This is a reprint of a reply I made to an AZ'r who doubted my credentials to give a report on the IPT match. He said he had never heard of me in all his 22 years around pool. I thought this response was cute enough to repeat:

"Re my anonymity -- at least to you-- A archeologist friend of mine just returned from a trip to Tibet. While in the mountains, in an old temple, he discovered the monks had a game room and an old Russian snooker table. He was amazed at how well they played the game, but when they found out he was from Chicago, the best shooting monk of the bunch asked him, "Hey, how's The Beard playing?"


the Beard

DSAPOLIS
01-29-2008, 08:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr>
Pool players are fools; jealous fools. Always complaining and never doing anything to help. Here they a have a great meal ticket and what do they do but criticize him when it would be so easy to look at the bright side. And Kevin sure did provide many bright sides. At least now some of the players realize how good Kevin can be for pool, and for themselves, and are starting to speak up for the IPT. If and when the IPT comes back I hope it will be an invitational tournament and all the naysayers can stay home and drown in their beers.

Jake <hr /></blockquote>

lol

You know what Jake, the IPT ended and folded exactly the way that myself and many others predicted. It was a house of cards that was not designed to last purely on Kevin's dime.

Blinded by dollar signs, nobody heard that when Kevin was speaking - their attention was too focused on the checks and the promises, that nobody understood exactly what Kevin was doing back in 2005-2006. He was building it up to sell it off. He was only willing to commit so much money and then he was bailing. If he couldn't sell it to anybody, he would be forced to cease operations because he couldn't afford to keep it going without making a profit. He said that from the very beginning and nobody heard it.

By the time Reno rolled a long, Kevin was unable to afford the payouts. Those of us "in the know" were aware of that and patiently awaited what he was going to do. He announced the Ho deal at the player's meeting, then when the it came time to pay the checks, the deal had already fallen through.

It is my opinion that the deal fell through during the week. Kevin had no control over that. He rolled the dice and came up short. It happens. It doesn't change the fact that he built the tour on shaky ground, which was the basis of my criticism for the IPT from the very beginning.

He wanted to sell the players. Mackey had already done that. Look where it got the players. Nowhere.

The IPT put on some great events - but it was done so that Kevin could sell it to someone that was interested in keeping it alive. Sadly, Kevin's initial investment capital ran out before he could sell it to anybody. This was bound to happen due to the payouts and Kevin knew that too.

I have personally spoken with Mike Sigel about the downfall of the initial IPT - and I have first hand inside knowledge about it. I've shared some of it here and believe it or not, I was dead on in my prophesizing back in 2005 - just ask Mike.lol. I'll see him tomorrow and ask him to reply to what I just wrote here. I also know a lot about who is behind KT in this newer IPT - I also know a lot about how they plan to grow this into something bigger than it is right now. Kevin is a man that learns from his mistakes, so this one will be thought out more carefully. Good for him!

I'm a Fool? Doubtful - but thanks for the compliment anyway. I could care less who invites me to play where and whether or not I am welcome when I arrive. I've been around too long to worry about $hit like that. I ran 147 balls in straight pool the other day. 3 weeks ago I ran 163. I know where I stand and I could care less what anybody's opinion is. It's none of my business. I just put the balls in the subway and I try to make the best decisions that I can as I go through life. That being said, I never had to sit around waiting for an IPT check, and in the meantime, professionally (in and out of pool) I made more money than most of the players that were waiting around for those checks.

I learned a lot from living through the Camel deal, the PCA, and other tours that have come and gone. I know what its like to have to quit doing what I love to do because of poorly thought out decisions made by greedy people. With the IPT, I used my best judgment.

I know many players that went out and purchased items during the IPT - and afterwards, they could not afford these items and eventually lost them. Like it or not,some players are worse off because of the IPT, but like I said earlier - it was not KT's intention to hurt or cause harm to anyone. He genuinely wanted this to work because he invested millions into it.

I fully support what Kevin is doing with the IPT challenges. There are some technical SNAFU's that are quite humorous at times - but these exhibitions are an outstanding way to get exposure for pool.

I wish all the players, Deno, and the entire staff the best of luck of with this venture. I hope that it eventually ends up being good for pool.

Myself, I am playing 14.1, 10 ball, 9 ball, 8 ball, and one pocket in hopes that the NACPBA is for real. I like my chances in an all around format. I just have to be invited.

wolfdancer
01-29-2008, 09:00 AM
Classic !!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Deeman3
01-29-2008, 09:28 AM
David,

Don't worry, you got enough stakers on here to back you anytime. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif You didn't have to bring up Don Mackie did you? /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Another in the long line of pool saviours... /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

DSAPOLIS
01-29-2008, 10:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> David,

Don't worry, you got enough stakers on here to back you anytime. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif You didn't have to bring up Don Mackie did you? /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Another in the long line of pool saviours... /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Dee.

About Don Mackey...

He is another guy that came in with the best of inetntions, only to leave with his reputation soiled.

Mackey made a deal with RJ Reynold's to support the Camel Pro Series. The Camel deal was killed by the marketing team of Larry Kigel and Wayne Robertson of RJ Reynolds. They never went into the deal to promote pool - they went in to target pool players to sell their tobacco products - linking the sport back to its image of "smokey pool rooms". They wanted to market us like NASCAR, Winston Cup... trouble was this...

They did some market research prior to signing the deal with Mackey - and I quote Larry Kiger from back in 1995 -

"our sole purpose is to impact attendees of Pro Tour events. This is an adult environment, and surveys indicate that 60 percent of of the adults playing and attending billiard events use tobacco products."

They then baited Mackey in with an offer of $1.5 million in purses over 15 events. Keep in mind, this is not an investment in pool, but in tobacco advertising from a big name in the tobacco industry, an industry that was under intense scrutiny at the time. Mackey in turn - cut viurtually all billiard industry ties in exchange for an exclusive deal with RJ Reynolds.

Halfway into these initial 15 events, RJ Reynolds realized that their marketing research was incorrect. Their numbers did not reflect fans of professional pool, it reflected the numbers for amateur league players.

To make a long story short, they told Mackey that they were pulling the plug after these 15 events to dedicate their marketing towards "amateur" pool players, who play pool in bars where people smoke - in an attempt to market their tobacco products to people that will buy them.

Mackey was in a pickel. He just nabbed the biggest sponsorship deal in the history the game - only to lose it before it had much of an impact 9the exception being all those cool posters and merchandise of Joe Camel playing pool with his cap on backwards... I still have an ashtray).

Mackey was desperate, so he - and he alone - made the decision to contact Phillip-Morris while still under contract with RJ Reynolds. This pissed off RJ Reynolds and they pulled the plug completely and Mackey was left holding a bucket of crap he couldn't sell to anybody. Remember, he cut all ties with the billiards industry. By that time I was part of the PCA and had run like hell away from the Camel nonsense - which IIRC only paid the top finishers - that didn't include me - and FWIW Camel forbid their players to play in regional tour events - I knew I would never crack the Camel top 10 so I jumped ship early - eventually entering another profession altogether.

In the end, Mackey was awarded a huge chunk of change and left pool entirely. I don't blame him at all. In retrospect, he backed himself into a corner politically - which is an entirely different story, but one that adds validity to the fact that there needs to be a representation for the players when dealing with arbitrary issues and major tour decisons. Unless the players establish power in some way, shape or form, they will continue to be taken advantage of.

jjinfla
01-30-2008, 06:51 PM
Well BJ if you would have gone to Orlando you would have known right from the start that the IPT was doomed for failure.

200 of the best players there and what, maybe a dozen fans. And all I could see was money going out the window by KT.

The players did nothing to help. Nada. Zip. You mean to tell me that a pro pool player can't attract at least 10 fans? Did any of them try to get fans to show up? Nope. Evidently no one gives a hoot that they can run a bunch of balls.

So I knew from the start KT had big problems. You can't be spending money like crazy if there is no way to recoup it. Did any of the players actually give any thought as to how KT was going to bring money in to replace the money he was throwing around? Surely you guys are all smart enough to know that KT was doing it to make money. Well, when no money was coming in did any player stop and think that maybe this ride is going to end? Actually it lasted longer than I thought it would.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

By the way, I would wager that back in your gambling days you hurt a hell of a lot more people than KT did with the IPT. Or are those stories of your past all made up.

LOL Have a good day.

Jake

PS I ran 23 balls the other day and only had one do over.

JimS
01-31-2008, 06:09 AM
So Jake, If I read you correctly you are saying that it's the players fault that KT's scheme failed. Is that correct? The players didn't promote the tour? The dummies just played pool instead of doing.... instead of doing what.... exactly? How would the individual players have increased attendance and brought in more $$$.

I thought that Dave gave a decent interpretation of what happened to the IPT. It was a failed business scheme. Didn't work. Period.

Freddy did nothing wrong, as far as I can see. He was invited to the exhibition, accepted the invite and then reported on how good of a time he had.

Seems like it's time to forget the percieved wrongs done in the past and try to judge things on their current merit.. with of course a wary eye, but also without cynacism and judgementalness.

KT's venture into streaming exhibition matches seems to be in response to seeing how positively fans took to TAR's action match streaming. I enjoy TAR's matches more than KT's because of the lack of commericals and commercialsim in general in TAR's productions. So I'll back TAR's efforts before KT's.

And I thank you Freddy for your contribution(s) to pool.

DSAPOLIS
01-31-2008, 07:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> Well BJ if you would have gone to Orlando you would have known right from the start that the IPT was doomed for failure. <hr /></blockquote>
I was in Orlando - for crying out loud, I live about 15 minutes from the Convention Center. I was barred from attending the event and I understood why they didn't want me there. I wanted to address the players to form some kind of organization and elect officers that would deal with the IPT directly. We had players staying with us at the house at the time - 5 to be exact. Care to guess which ones?

If I was allowed to address the players, in retrospect it would have had little or no effect. It was agreat opportunity for them to make some money and I would have gotten in the way of that.

On the first day of the event, I was told that I would not be allowed on the premises, and if I tried to enter I would have been escorted out of the Convention Center. I didn't want to cause any trouble, so I stayed home.

However, the ABCNEWS team that did a story on KT - they showed up at the convention center, lied about why they were there - saying that they were covering the IPT and the KOH tournament- and when 20/20 crucified Kevin a few weeks later, it was all blamed on me. I had absolutely nothing to do with that - yet some people believe that caused the IPT's downfall.

It didn't.

KT just didn't have enough money or time to do what he intended, and he drew some bad cards along the way.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr>200 of the best players there and what, maybe a dozen fans. And all I could see was money going out the window by KT.<hr /></blockquote>

...and if Kevin would have surrounded himself with the right people he would have been forewarned about that. I live here and I saw no advertsing at all for the event - with the exception of the garbage I read on the forums. That's not going to fill an arena. If he was smart he would have plastered advertising all over the Filippino community here in Orlando, Tampa, Daytona, Melbourne - he'd have filled that place up quick - and with Efren in the finals - boy did KT need some guidance in marketing the IPT... /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr>The players did nothing to help. Nada. Zip. You mean to tell me that a pro pool player can't attract at least 10 fans? Did any of them try to get fans to show up? Nope. Evidently no one gives a hoot that they can run a bunch of balls.<hr /></blockquote>

...and in the end, I believe that had a lot to do with why he pulled the plug. At least we agree on that.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr>So I knew from the start KT had big problems. You can't be spending money like crazy if there is no way to recoup it. Did any of the players actually give any thought as to how KT was going to bring money in to replace the money he was throwing around? Surely you guys are all smart enough to know that KT was doing it to make money. Well, when no money was coming in did any player stop and think that maybe this ride is going to end? Actually it lasted longer than I thought it would.<hr /></blockquote>

It actually folded a little earlier than I thought it would. I thought it would fold after the 2007 season and that he would stiff the players for the $100K salaries - turns out it ended just before '07 - nobody got the $100K did they? Just like I said from the beginning - he didn't have the money.He wanted to sell it to someone like a Stanley Ho to pick up that tab - however his investment (the IPT) didn't appreciate in value like he thought it would. Then they passed this law against online betting - and he was left holding the bill for the 2007 season. Bad situation to be in, don't you think?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr>Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

By the way, I would wager that back in your gambling days you hurt a hell of a lot more people than KT did with the IPT. Or are those stories of your past all made up.

LOL Have a good day.

Jake
<hr /></blockquote>

Nothing is made up, and I never claimed to be a choir boy. I also never went out of my way to rip anybody off. I was player and a gambler and I usually just sat at a table and let the fish bite the hook, instead of casting out a net like Kevin did. Big Difference.

KT tried to make something good for the players, but without the players having a voice or representation, I could not support it. Players need to have an organization or a voice that is present during the decision making process. Many decisions are made that affect their lives and the lives of their families and they need to know what is going on. If you need that explained in a clearer way - think back to the week after Reno and all of the confusion and conflicting stories. Everybody was INTENTIONALLY kept in the dark by Deno and with that I rest my case.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr>PS I ran 23 balls the other day and only had one do over. <hr /></blockquote>

I have days like that - not very often - but it does happen.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

catscradle
01-31-2008, 09:42 AM
The IPT was doomed from day 1, it was just not economically feasible. Until pool draws fans other than pool players, a major tour like that will not work. Even most pool players, hackers and serious players alike, are not very interested in watching pool. A sad fact, but nevertheless a fact.
To this day I swear KT had a scam in mind that he just couldn't pull off. He could not have been that stupid about the realities of marketing pool. I cannot imagine what that scam was, unless it was what he tried, dumping it on some billionaire.

Eric.
01-31-2008, 12:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote catscradle:</font><hr> The IPT was doomed from day 1, it was just not economically feasible. Until pool draws fans other than pool players, a major tour like that will not work. Even most pool players, hackers and serious players alike, are not very interested in watching pool. A sad fact, but nevertheless a fact.
To this day I swear KT had a scam in mind that he just couldn't pull off. He could not have been that stupid about the realities of marketing pool. I cannot imagine what that scam was, unless it was what he tried, dumping it on some billionaire.
<hr /></blockquote>

Cats,

I actually believe that KT was on the up and up with the business plan for the IPT.

IMO, I think the IPT was a marketing vehicle for his books, being that he was banned by the FCC for peddling on TV.

Also, I believe KT's exit strategy was to build up the tour and sell it off to someone that really does have a lot of money.

Maybe I'm all wet on this, but I think it was a legitimate (non-scam) business plan, albeit, a poorly executed one.


Eric

Bibleman
02-06-2008, 02:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote freddythebeard:</font><hr>
snip

With so much groaning about the IPT payouts I think back to my Johnston City days whereby you would have to stay 3 weeks and beat the 64 best players in the world to win $2000 for each event and $2000 for the all-around. I was dumb enough back then to think that that was generous. That should give you some idea of how poor other pool payouts were at that time.

snip

The Beard <hr /></blockquote>

The major reason I never tried the pro-tour in the 70s (when I could play a little) was the impossibility of even making expenses without hustling or finding a sponsor (who's going to sponsor an unknown?). Nevermind, that I would have been facing a murderer's row of players like Mike Sigel, James Rempe and Steve Mizerak. Considering that the place and show money wouldn't cover the hotel etc, it was a losing proposition.

The IPT tour failed because Trudeau had a deal set to sell the tour to a big time casino owner who wanted to have Internet betting on the matches. A morally bankrupt Congress critter put an amendment on a bill that forbids Internet pay outs for gambling UNLESS you are an American casino collectingó in other words, you can go to a casino and lose your bank account via the Internet and it's legal, but if you want to bet $20 on Efren, that's a terrible crime. The Internet gambling prohibition killed the IPT in its original incarnation.

This guy Trudeau is the best thing that has come along for pool in a long time. This is the first time that players out of the top ten could make a living ($50,000/yr). If I could have made $50,000 for finishing 25th in a tournament, I would have definitely taken a serious shot at pro competition.

Another thing, Trudeau makes it possible for unknowns to get into these events though qualifiers.

Now that Trudeau has paid past debts, there is no reason to criticize or to withhold support for the IPT.

Let's hope the IPT becomes a roaring success.
R Givens

eg8r
02-06-2008, 03:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This guy Trudeau is the best thing that has come along for pool in a long time. This is the first time that players out of the top ten could make a living ($50,000/yr). <hr /></blockquote> I just checked and I don't think the top 10 made 50k this year (from tournaments this year). Kevin Trudeau had a chance to be the best thing but the end result has been something much different.

[ QUOTE ]
Another thing, Trudeau makes it possible for unknowns to get into these events though qualifiers.
<hr /></blockquote> Where are the qualifiers this weekend, I know some unknowns that would like to make 50k this year. Any chance the entry fee has dropped a bit? Since these guys are not making 50k as it is, 2k seems a bit steep for these unknowns.

[ QUOTE ]
Now that Trudeau has paid past debts, there is no reason to criticize or to withhold support for the IPT. <hr /></blockquote> IF there is ever another IPT tourney, how many people are going to really expect to get paid after the tourney versus waiting a year and a half?

[ QUOTE ]
Let's hope the IPT becomes a roaring success.
<hr /></blockquote> I sure hope the reincarnation is a roaring success, but I am a realist and will do what everyone else is doing, sit back and try not to be as skeptical.

eg8r

joejaguar
03-02-2008, 03:40 PM
Hey,
Anybody know where the upcoming IPT Challenge Match between Marlon Manalo and Rodney Morris is actually being held on March 4 (assuming it is being streamed live)? Their website doesn't give any location details that I see. Wouldn't mind seeing some pros in action here around Chicago.
Thanks.

Qtec
03-02-2008, 10:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjinfla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well BJ if you would have gone to Orlando you would have known right from the start that the IPT was doomed for failure.

200 of the best players there and what, maybe a dozen fans. And all I could see was money going out the window by KT.

The players did nothing to help. Nada. Zip. You mean to tell me that a pro pool player can't attract at least 10 fans? Did any of them try to get fans to show up? Nope. Evidently no one gives a hoot that they can run a bunch of balls.

So I knew from the start KT had big problems. You can't be spending money like crazy if there is no way to recoup it. Did any of the players actually give any thought as to how KT was going to bring money in to replace the money he was throwing around? Surely you guys are all smart enough to know that KT was doing it to make money. Well, when no money was coming in did any player stop and think that maybe this ride is going to end? Actually it lasted longer than I thought it would.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

By the way, I would wager that back in your gambling days you hurt a hell of a lot more people than KT did with the IPT. Or are those stories of your past all made up.

LOL Have a good day.

Jake

PS I ran 23 balls the other day and only had one do over. </div></div>

UnFrigginBeliveable!
I was on AZ at the beggining of the IPT tour and KT's fairy stories. People like myself[ Gabber] were crucified as IPT unbelievers- as negative posters, just because I/we pointed out the OBVIOUS inconsistencies, the contradictions and the fact the absolutely NOTHING that KT said was ever backed up by any kind of proof. What happened on AZ was a propaganda campaign and you were a part of it.

KT promised the tour was FULLY paid for the first 2 years. It was a guarantee. The money was supposedly already DEPOSITED and an Intl Banking firm/accountants would ensure all payouts. KT himself said the money was NOT an issue. He told us all MANY times how rich he was, didn't he?

KT had SO MUCH money he had to get rid of 140 million dollars in one day [ according to some AZ posters] just for tax purposes! [ this was the crap you and others were spreading at the time]

If you can remember KT said he didn't expect to see any profit in the FIRST 2 years.??????????????

Now you seem now to be blaming the players for the downfall of the IPT but you have already said it was doomed from the start?
Make up your mind.
Lets face it, you have been an apologist for KT from day one.
Q...........You are still doing it.

Qtec
03-02-2008, 10:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dr_dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote Fran Crimi:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;... What's your take on why they're showing the matches for free?&lt;hr /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Fran,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I am detecting a cynical tone here. Of course, being honest, the IPT is in it for the money. They hope to generate interest and get more paying members on their website. If they can continue to do this, and maybe start up some sponsored, revenue-generating tournaments, they will make money and survive. If they can't, then they are history.

Personally, I hope the IPT becomes successful and makes lots of money; because if they do, the players will benefit and the fans will be able to watch lots of great 8-ball on TV and on the Internet. To me, pro 8-ball is much more interesting than pro 9-ball.

Respectfully,
Dave </div></div>

Dave, If a person was to start a buisness, how many years ,on average , does it take to break even- nevermind make a profit?

When KT couldn't pay the players , instead of reducing the prize money for the upcoming tournaments, he INCREASED it!

It was a pyramid scheme.
Q