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Drop1
01-25-2008, 07:36 PM
I don't know anybody who is pro-abortion. I think it's very important to start with that premise. I think people recognize what a wrenching, difficult issue it is. I do think that those who diminish the moral elements of the decision aren't expressing the full reality of it. But what I believe is that women do not make these decisions casually, and that they struggle with it fervently with their pastors, with their spouses, with their doctors.

Our goal should be to make abortion less common, that we should be discouraging unwanted pregnancies, that we should encourage adoption wherever possible. There is a range of ways that we can educate our young people about the sacredness of sex and we should not be promoting the sort of casual activities that end up resulting in so many unwanted pregnancies.

Ultimately, women are in the best position to make a decision at the end of the day about these issues. With significant constraints. For example, I think we can legitimately say the state can legitimately say that we are prohibiting late-term abortions as long as there's an exception for the mother's health. Those provisions that I voted against typically didn't have those exceptions, which raises profound questions where you might have a mother at great risk. Those are issues that I don't think the government can unilaterally make a decision about. I think they need to be made in consultation with doctors, they have to be prayed upon, or people have to be consulting their conscience on it. I think we have to keep that decision-making with the person themselves.
Thanks for your version LWW.

Gayle in MD
01-26-2008, 10:46 AM
Good post, Drop. The recent Supreme Court ruling is another attack on the value of a woman. It was a great tragedy for women, and for women's rights.

In my opinion, fathers who are concerned about the number of abortions, should be talking with their sons about respecting women's rights, and taking responsibility for where they put their sperm. Few people look at the issue of an unwanted pregnancy as the result of tow people being careless, and irresponsible. While the pregnancy is often viewed a girl having got herself into "trouble" when it is time to make the decision of how to deal with the "Trouble"... men who boldly step up to criticize the decision to have an abortion, seldom see their own gender as having any responsibility for the result.

The whole issues of virginity, mainly a biblical issue, is also an unhealthy philosophy. The idea that a young man is a stud, for having many conquests to brag about, while a young woman is damaged goods, for having had sex with a young man to whom she is not married, plays a huge role in the psychological damage which results in young women with a low self-esteem. I hold organized religion, and the myth of the virgin birth, greatly at fault for this ideology.

It is unfortunate that more parents don't realize the direct connection between the religious philosophies of guilt and shame, and the resulting feelings of low self worth, when talking with their children about sex, both boys and girls. The fathers who pat their sons on the back for their conquests, play a huge role in how young women are valued. Grown single men, older men, not ust young men, see themselves as free of criticism in their sexploitations, and this view is generally supported by aour society which places the entire matter at the feet of owmen, it is always the girls place, and the girls problem. All these issues play a role in my own philosophy that men, logically have no place in passing judgement on the entire issue of choice. When men's own sexual adventures end in their own pregnancy, I will change my mind about that. Until then, no man has a right to judge a women's decision, regardless of what that decision may be, in the whole range of options, until then, and particularly not men in black robes who live in ivory towers, of stand on pulpits.

It seems that every month or so we are hearing of a pregnant woman being murderred by the man involved in the pregnancy. I believe, given the fact that a woman's knowledge of being pregnant, is often kept secret, and revealed only to the male involved, for some time, there are many more of these cases than we will ever know about.

Hence, women who become pregnant, particularly young women, need to know that they will not be judged by their families, for their dilema, and that they can trust that they will be supported in whatever decision they make. the recent ruling of the Supreme Court, forbidding late term abortions to save the life of the mother, is yet another example of a living woman's life, being devalued.

An unwanted pregnancy affects the health and life of a woman, in ways which the person who provided the sperm, can not possibly appreciate.

Sex education is a must. It became a part of our education system because it became evident that parents were failing to provide their children with sex education, at home. At the very least, if teens are going to have sex, and certainly, they always will, they should be provided with all the information necessary to do so with the least negative consequences possible. Doing so does not prohibit a parent from discussing all the reasons why a young person's life is disadvantaged by the distraction of becoming sexual, before they have had the opportunity to pursue their own personal goals, and mature enough to be able to make decisions in their own best interests.

Of all suggestions one could make to our youth regarding such deep subjects, sending them off to pray on it, is about as effective as sending them off to watch cartoons, IMO.

Gayle in Md.

wolfdancer
01-26-2008, 10:55 AM
Thanks for your version LWW.

AND, thanks for your unexpurgated one.

LWW
01-27-2008, 06:15 AM
We posted the same thing Einstein.

Are you really that dumb?

Please, don't answer.

We both know the answer.

LWW

Drop1
01-27-2008, 01:25 PM
I understand your embarrassment,so I won't answer you,but congratulate the people who saw the different intent in the posts. Why don't you sign off LWW inventing myths?

LWW
01-27-2008, 02:16 PM
You prove me wrong by agreeing with me.

BRILLIANT!

There is no diffference in intent other than the one you imagine in order to:

A-Give a pass to a religious fundamentalist who happens to be a (D).
B-Stop from saying that a POTUS being a religious fundamentalist is OK.

It's y'alls Catch-22.

Y'all walked into it.

I merely pointed it out.

Don't hate me because I can think.

LWW

hondo
01-27-2008, 03:43 PM
Don't hate me because I can think.


I don't hate you because you can think, buddy.
With love, Hondo

wolfdancer
01-27-2008, 05:19 PM
El Dub-ito, ergo cogito, ergo sum

Drop1
01-27-2008, 07:46 PM
Wolf,I hope you don't mind,but I like "Dubito,ergo cogito:cogito,ergo sum. Cui bono?" :Stephen Hawkins
I'm sure The Man from Mensa has made it his mantra.

LWW
01-28-2008, 05:18 AM
I'm sure you used a translator because you are barely able to speak your native tongue.

Wolfie, didn't you promise everyone you were leaving?

LWW

Drop1
01-28-2008, 12:58 PM
My such caterwauling, de un pinche pindejo que no puede hablar Ingles menos una otra idioma. Haga me un favor,y no gastar mas tiempo mio,o como dicen los Chinos,no mas "phan pi". So,in short Mr.Mensa take some time off,your well deserved low self esteem is beginning to show.

LWW
01-28-2008, 01:09 PM
Yer funnee.


Not, sit down your Haterade.

LWW