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Rod
08-04-2002, 02:28 AM
If by magic you could have a marked improvement in "one" part of your game, of these choices, what would that one part be? I'm leaving out physical problems.
Sorry about the other poll I forgot pollstop. duh!

Karatemom
08-04-2002, 03:36 AM
I can't pick just one, they all apply to me, LOL. The only two I haven't worked on, because I can't do them, are the masse' and jump shots.

Heide ~always trying to improve her game

Jay M
08-04-2002, 08:20 AM
Mine isn't listed. It's a little tough to explain what happens when I am in dead punch. It's pulling everything together without having to think about it. I don't think about the aim, I don't think about the leaves, I don't think...

When that is happening, I don't miss. One night, I hit the zone and missed a total of 2 shots in a 5 hour period playing against a local guy (for nothing), he still talks about it occasionally 3 years later. It's strange, it's a totally subconcious thing. As soon as you notice it happening, it's over.

What I would improve is the ability to get into that zone.

Jay M

Sid_Vicious
08-04-2002, 08:34 AM
If concentration includes finishing without choking then I change my vote from kicks to concentration. Choking should have it's own bullit and yet it really encompasses several of these listed at any given time.

Not choking has been the first thing I've told any pool instructor when he asks, "What do you want to get out of this?" Nobody's fixed that problem yet, and it's sick to smoothly get through the pack to the cash ball and fumbling a caught pass...sid~~keeps on playing figuring to work it out with pure tenure and experience

Chris Cass
08-04-2002, 09:01 AM
Hi Rod,

I'd have to go with shot selection myself. I think this is the most important of all the things listed. Focus (concentration)would have to be next. It seems to me if someone took the right amount of time to get the right shot selection down. Then all things will come into play.

You might miss the shot but the chances of getting out or leaving the balls right is to your advantage. Something like getting all the rolls. If you shoot the right shot. If you shoot it the right way. In the right pocket. You'll get that roll. JMO

I'm not talking just 8ball. In 9ball you have to shoot in sequence. So many ways to pocket a ball. The right pocket or shot selection in order to make the table flow is more likely to get you to the zone Jay had mentioned. Poor Jay, missing two balls in 5 hrs. I've had bad days like that too.


Regards,

C.C.~~If RIP didn't take the right shot selection. He wouldn't have been here today. LOL

08-04-2002, 09:09 AM
Relax, also like drinking alcohol, its ugly in a bad mood and fun and bubbly in a good mood. manipulation of the table, rules and your emotions if you practice like you play then youll play like you practice...and sometimes you dont want to make a ball if its not in your best intrests...

cheesemouse
08-04-2002, 09:16 AM
Jay,
I like your distinction about the 'zone' and I thought the same thing. I wish the zone was like a light switch but if wishes were walnuts we'd all have a merry Christmas. I selected concentration or focus in the poll as I thought that was how one reaches that wonderful place called the ZONE. If you ever find that light switch let me know will ya!!!!!

08-04-2002, 09:19 AM
hey Sid rack up 15 * balls and take your hand off your throat and put 2 on the cue

Ryan
08-04-2002, 10:55 AM
I had to go with position play for the simple reason that if you have great position play, you do not have the need to make kick, bank or masse shots. You are in perfect shape for the next shot.

When you are in perfect shape, you have a great deal of confidence in your ability to make the shot, thus eliminating the tendency to "choke".

9-ball is the perfect example for this. If you make a ball on the break and have a clean shot on the 1, what single factor will enable you to run out the rack? You can have a perfect stance, pre-shot routine and stroke, but it doesn't do you much good if you don't end up with position on the 2.

socrates
08-04-2002, 11:20 AM
Hey Chris since you mentioned rolls - What I believe is that when you are making the balls you are supposed to make AND shooting the right shots then the rolls will go your way. As soon as you start missing balls you are supposed to make or select the wrong shots your opponent will get every roll the pool gods dish out. IMO

cheesemouse
08-04-2002, 11:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: socrates:</font><hr> Hey Chris since you mentioned rolls - What I believe is that when you are making the balls you are supposed to make AND shooting the right shots then the rolls will go your way. As soon as you start missing balls you are supposed to make or select the wrong shots your opponent will get every roll the pool gods dish out. IMO <hr></blockquote>

Amen brother........ /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Alfie
08-04-2002, 11:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris Cass:</font><hr> I'd have to go with shot selection myself. I think this is the most important of all the things listed. Focus (concentration)would have to be next. <hr></blockquote> I'm with you, CC.

1 shot selection
2 concentration (to minimize distracting thoughts)
3,4(tie) where to hit the OB and stroke (to minimize aim and execution error)

with these four I could be a champion

08-04-2002, 08:40 PM
In choosing from your list, Rod (great list, BTW) I'd choose pre-shot routine. Usually when I miss or get out of line, it's because I left something out of my pre-shot routine.

Fran

08-04-2002, 08:57 PM
You'd be rich if you could do it, Jay. Scientists have been trying forever to induce the zone on demand in athletes. The only thing they've been able to do successfully is to induce the state that preceeds the zone which is an alpha-like state. But the actual zone itself is a combination of alpha(sleep)and beta (consciousness) waves (usually more alpha) and it's different for each person. The Soviets were into it in a major way with their weight-lifters back in the 80's. They had those poor guys hooked up to all kinds of wires before they lifted, zapping them (electrically) with a litle of this and a little of that. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Fran

Rod
08-04-2002, 10:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Fran Crimi:</font><hr> In choosing from your list, Rod (great list, BTW) I'd choose pre-shot routine. Usually when I miss or get out of line, it's because I left something out of my pre-shot routine.

Fran <hr></blockquote>

Thanks Fran, That is an area I have been putting under the microscope lately. How I walk into the shot and my pause at the c/b. It always seemed very natural and routine however I have been a little careless. When things go wrong I blame it on concentration. That is a factor but I need to give myself a better chance.

Rod
08-04-2002, 10:33 PM
I can identify with that Chris. When were playing well I don't see that as a particular problem. However if the old game is a little off, say in 9 ball, our pocket selection can come back to haunt us. Like why didn't I play that to the other corner, side etc. Playing 14-1 but not limited to, it gets real critical when to shoot a particular ball. Good choice.

Rod
08-04-2002, 10:51 PM
Concentration certainly has to be a factor Sid. All through your run it seems to be on cruise, then BAM. When you get to the winning ball it's my opinion that people do one or two things or both. They rush their pre-shot routine and never get really settled on the shot. The next one would be to think out loud in their mind. Funny how people cruise along there concentration is dead focused. When the moment of truth comes along it goes out the window. Staying focused and keeping a steady rythm has to be a factor.

Rod
08-04-2002, 11:24 PM
As the master said, "pick wise'ly Grasshopper"

Heide,
Ask C.C. which would be your best choice, of course don't beat him first, he might steer you wrong. lol

Patrick
08-04-2002, 11:59 PM
When you say you missed 2 shots in 5 hours, do you mean you didn't do safeties? I count safeties as a miss.

Patrick

Patrick
08-05-2002, 12:07 AM
Speed control is the most important thing! You can't make difficult shots without good speed control.
All those things that you listed have a limit, speed control is unlimited!

Patrick

Rod
08-05-2002, 01:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Patrick:</font><hr> Speed control is the most important thing! You can't make difficult shots without good speed control.
All those things that you listed have a limit, speed control is unlimited!

Patrick <hr></blockquote>

Sorry Patrick, that falls under the main category of stroke. Knowledge of how much ball you hit with or with out english and how it effects c/b after contact along with table conditions determines your speed of stroke. You can make difficult shots without speed control, I see it all the time, you just won't have position. Speed of stroke is somewhat governed by your pre-shot routine, bridge length and where you hold the cue. Knowledge of these aspects controls speed.

Saying speed control really doesn't mean anything unless you combine different factors. I don't believe anything has a limit, but it's our choice of combinations that work best for the shot at hand. With knowledge I'll take stroke for speed control. I couldn't list every single aspect, so you have MAIN categorys to choose from. I did throw in some that are not as important. Considering the different levels of talent it was my choice to give people my options. When your old and gray, walking to the table might be a choice if it was on the list! What's your choice?

08-05-2002, 07:27 AM
no fran that's not the reason why you get out of line it's because your thinking of how could you lose to finnegan but i have that in pack on everybody listen if you need help i give lesson m-f 9pm to 4am at the golden q drinks are on me but table 6 tight pocket bye miss crimi

bluewolf
08-05-2002, 07:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Patrick:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; Speed control is the most important thing! You can't make difficult shots without good speed control.
All those things that you listed have a limit, speed control is unlimited!

Patrick &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sorry Patrick, that falls under the main category of stroke. Knowledge of how much ball you hit with or with out english and how it effects c/b after contact along with table conditions determines your speed of stroke. You can make difficult shots without speed control, I see it all the time, you just won't have position. Speed of stroke is somewhat governed by your pre-shot routine, bridge length and where you hold the cue. Knowledge of these aspects controls speed.

Saying speed control really doesn't mean anything unless you combine different factors. I don't believe anything has a limit, but it's our choice of combinations that work best for the shot at hand. With knowledge I'll take stroke for speed control. I couldn't list every single aspect, so you have MAIN categorys to choose from. I did throw in some that are not as important. Considering the different levels of talent it was my choice to give people my options. When your old and gray, walking to the table might be a choice if it was on the list! What's your choice? <hr></blockquote>

this may be true on some shots but bank shots dont go in lots of times if the speed is wrong. too slow a speed tends to widen the arc, too fast speed imo tends to narrow it.

bluewolf

bluewolf
08-05-2002, 07:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Patrick:</font><hr> When you say you missed 2 shots in 5 hours, do you mean you didn't do safeties? I count safeties as a miss.

Patrick <hr></blockquote>

to me a safety is a defensive shot used when you cant make your next ball and to keep your opponent from having a good shot.i think this is often caused by not being skilled enough at position but if you did not run out, and your opponent bottled you up, a safety shot seems to be the best choice.

bluewolf

08-05-2002, 07:55 AM
Hey Finnegan, go play in traffic, will ya? No, I'm not gonna yell at you when I see you. I'm gonna smack you.


Fran (sigh. Digressing again.)

08-05-2002, 08:08 AM

Doctor_D
08-05-2002, 08:17 AM
Good morning:

With every practice day I start with the elements associated with fundamentals and stroke (aka My Scales). I approach my practice session much like a professional musician. Scales are as important to the seasoned professional musician as they are to the beginner.

Dr. D.

Jay M
08-05-2002, 08:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Patrick:</font><hr> When you say you missed 2 shots in 5 hours, do you mean you didn't do safeties? I count safeties as a miss.

Patrick <hr></blockquote>

I shot very few safeties during that time. When I did shoot a safety, I invariably ended up with BIH or an easy leave for my next shot. I don't consider a good safety a miss, I consider a poor safety to be a miss.

I also don't count a break where nothing falls as a miss. There were several break shots where I didn't make anything, but the only game I lost the entire time was one of those misses which was a 7 ball and I left him a stop pattern.

Jay M

08-05-2002, 08:38 AM

bluewolf
08-05-2002, 08:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: whitewolf:</font><hr> Dr_D, you will have to explain to me someday what these scales are you practice. I am seeing Scott Lee in a couple of weeks for a lesson BTW, so maybe I will pick up some valuable info then. You are obviously on the right track. <hr></blockquote>

hopefully scott lee will help me on my cut shots &lt;G&gt;

bluewolf

Jay M
08-05-2002, 08:50 AM
serious musicians practice by playing scales rather than songs until they have an actual piece to perform.

Basically they are drills of the fundamentals that help to warm the artist up and to get everything flowing properly. They also reinforce all of the little things that are used in a regular performance. As an example, a piano player that is practicing scales is working on posture, hand position, timing and cross-overs (I made that name up, I'm talking about having one hand cross over the other to pick up the next octave in the scale)

So I am guessing that Dr D is equating the drills she shoots with the scales that the artists practice.

Jay M

Chris Cass
08-05-2002, 08:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bluewolf:</font><hr>this may be true on some shots but bank shots dont go in lots of times if the speed is wrong. too slow a speed tends to widen the arc, too fast speed imo tends to narrow it.
bluewolf <hr></blockquote>

Hi Bluewolf,

Speed control is a way of manipulating the cb to get where you have to be on the table. What your talking about it applying english to bank a ball. True the slower the hit the wider the angle becomes and is refered to as, widening the pocket. If the bank is shot straight, speed shouldn't be a factor in making the shot. If your speed control is perfect you wouldn't need to bank. Position play becomes a factor in determining speed control.

Shot selection, is determined by your skill level. The higher your level the more options you have. Like Rod said, there's many factors that come into play when your talking speed control. The amount of follow through, english applied is where stroke comes in. No doubt it all comes down to controlling whitey. How hard you hit the cb has to do with your bridge length. A former touring pro Scott Kitto told me once, a person shoots hard because they can't shoot straight. Shooters like Rod, shoot most of the shots with the same speed and get where they need to go effortlessly. It's enough to make ya sick. LOL

Regards,

C.C.

Doctor_D
08-05-2002, 08:57 AM
Good morning:

My "scales" are part of a 400 drill workbook I have created. If you will be visiting us in Arnold, I will let you take a peak at it.

Dr. D.

John in NH
08-05-2002, 08:57 AM
Hi Rod,

Not on your list is "The Break" which I consider my biggest weakness, as well as some others that you mentioned already.

Great poll,

John

Chris Cass
08-05-2002, 09:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Patrick:</font><hr> When you say you missed 2 shots in 5 hours, do you mean you didn't do safeties? I count safeties as a miss.
Patrick <hr></blockquote>

Now that's funny. I count misses as safeties. HAHAHA

C.C.

Chris Cass
08-05-2002, 09:11 AM
Hi John,

Funny, I was thinking pattern play. So many beginners don't see the patterns or the lines. Visualization, things like that. I suppose the list would have to be about 2 pages. hahah

Regards,

C.C.

Chris Cass
08-05-2002, 09:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: socrates:</font><hr> Hey Chris since you mentioned rolls - What I believe is that when you are making the balls you are supposed to make AND shooting the right shots then the rolls will go your way. As soon as you start missing balls you are supposed to make or select the wrong shots your opponent will get every roll the pool gods dish out. IMO <hr></blockquote>

I know how to stop that too. I just spit in the chalk.

Regards,

C.C.

Chris Cass
08-05-2002, 09:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Fran Crimi:</font><hr> In choosing from your list, Rod (great list, BTW) I'd choose pre-shot routine. Usually when I miss or get out of line, it's because I left something out of my pre-shot routine.
Fran <hr></blockquote>

Hi Fran,

As I watched you play in Vegas, I thought your pre-shot routine was right on. I myself rely on my pre-shot routine when everything else start falling apart. This is a very good reason for the routine. IMO It's carried me through a lot of matches at times when needed.

Regards,

C.C.~~I have a 93 calender with your picture in it. You and Ewa could pass for sisters.

John in NH
08-05-2002, 09:33 AM
Hi C.C.

Thanks for the insight, the list is already too long ha! ha!, I'm having trouble deciding which area needs the most improvement.

Keep stroking and the list will surely shrink,

John

Patrick
08-05-2002, 11:33 AM
What I mean with difficult shots is bank shots, kick shots, massť shots, shots with a lot spin, deflection, combinations, throw, jump shots. If you use wrong speed you will miss these shots.
Try to make a massť shot, you need almost perfect speed control, unless you make the margin of error as big as possible.

Stroke is not speed control, stroke is not aiming. It is putting it all together. If you don't have a consistent stroke, you will not get the speed that you wanted to use.

If you make all kick shots 30% and can't do any better, that is a limit, you can't get better if you don't improve your speed control. I play my kick shots with the biggest margin of error possible, that is the limit you can reach, after you reach that limit, the only way you can improve the percentage is with better speed control.

Patrick

Karatemom
08-05-2002, 01:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> As the master said, "pick wise'ly Grasshopper"

Heide,
Ask C.C. which would be your best choice, of course don't beat him first, he might steer you wrong. lol

<hr></blockquote>

Not so sure he could pick just one either at this point. He harps on me about everything I do, right or wrong. I know he means well though, just trying to improve my game. Little does he know that just by supporting me the way he does, he's already helping me to improve my game. Yesterday, he helped me with the Q-skill, racked 83 racks for me til I had had enough. All I heard was shot selection, pattern play, and didn't you see that shot? So even he can't make up his mind, LOL. Believe me, I try to draw every bit of pool knowledge out of him that I possibly can and try to apply it to my game. It's just easier said than done. I guess shot selection would be my final choice. After yesterday, I would have to say that I see things a little clearer now.

Heide ~ finally found a way to get Chris to rack for me

08-05-2002, 01:20 PM
Hey Fin,
--Lessons in losing is not what I think she's looking for. LOL. I might have to come down to the "Q" and keep buggin' you on this. LOL

Snooky

Rod
08-05-2002, 02:42 PM
83 racks!! Heide you got to love that guy. My back gets sore just thinking about it.

Rod
08-05-2002, 02:57 PM
Quote Patrick, If you don't have a consistent stroke, you will not get the speed that you wanted to use."

I rest my case there Pat.

Karatemom
08-05-2002, 03:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> 83 racks!! Heide you got to love that guy. My back gets sore just thinking about it. <hr></blockquote>

I do. I don't know any other spouse that would do that, LOL.

Heide

Patrick
08-07-2002, 01:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> I rest my case there Pat.<hr></blockquote>What? You can have perfect speed control but you need a consistent stroke to get the speed that you want. Practicing speed control and stroke is a different thing. You also need to calculate the weight of the cue.
Maybe you don't know that speed control and stroke is a separate thing until you reach a certain skill level?

Patrick