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DeadCrab
02-03-2008, 03:40 PM
Other than tradition, I can see no use in persisting with the diamond system of table markings for banks. Bank shots are already difficult enough to make, as they typically include a cut shot, as well as a need for spin and speed compensation. It would seem that improving the table markings to make it easier to set up banks and kicks could broaden the scope of these shots, which are now taken mostly out of desperation.

If nothing else, marking divisions at 0.1 of rail length, rather than 0.25 would be an advancement, as would putting the marks next to the cushion cloth.

I would be interested to hear if anyone has experimented with alternative rail marking systems.

pooltchr
02-03-2008, 04:47 PM
Why not just draw out bank and kick angles right on the cloth? If you want to make it easier, make it easier!

Steve

DeadCrab
02-03-2008, 07:26 PM
Well, for one thing, I don't put ink on the cloth. For another, to get them all, the cloth would be completely obliterated with ink.

As I alluded to in my earlier post, the shot doesn't get easier, the design of the shot does.

Rich R.
02-03-2008, 09:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr>
Other than tradition, I can see no use in persisting with the diamond system of table markings for banks. Bank shots are already difficult enough to make, as they typically include a cut shot, as well as a need for spin and speed compensation. It would seem that improving the table markings to make it easier to set up banks and kicks could broaden the scope of these shots, which are now taken mostly out of desperation.

If nothing else, marking divisions at 0.1 of rail length, rather than 0.25 would be an advancement, as would putting the marks next to the cushion cloth.

I would be interested to hear if anyone has experimented with alternative rail marking systems. <hr /></blockquote>
I would prefer leaving the equipment the way it is. Part of the challenge is playing the game, as it was meant to be played, and improving my skills. IMHO, more markings on the table would not be an improvement.

Qtec
02-03-2008, 10:29 PM
Why diamonds?

Why not?

Most people can use any help they can get on a pool table.

Qtec

okinawa77
02-04-2008, 05:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr>
Other than tradition, I can see no use in persisting with the diamond system of table markings for banks. Bank shots are already difficult enough to make, as they typically include a cut shot, as well as a need for spin and speed compensation. It would seem that improving the table markings to make it easier to set up banks and kicks could broaden the scope of these shots, which are now taken mostly out of desperation.

If nothing else, marking divisions at 0.1 of rail length, rather than 0.25 would be an advancement, as would putting the marks next to the cushion cloth.

I would be interested to hear if anyone has experimented with alternative rail marking systems. <hr /></blockquote>

The diamonds work fine as they are...for me. If anything, I think having diamonds every 0.125 would be an improvement. And I wouldn't want markings closer to the rail, I think it will throw off the angles...the rebound off the rubber and the width of the ball should be accounted for. I think centering the diamond in the middle of the rail (as it is) does a good job of that.

Billy_Bob
02-04-2008, 07:53 AM
I break-up the space between diamonds into 10th's in my mind. So good idea!

Actually why not get rid of placing cloth on the cushions and use a more accurate cushion which has the markings right where the ball hits? Have major diamond markings, smaller half diamond markings, then smaller markings between these.

Could easily retrofit existing tables and would not need to replace the cloth on the cushions. And the old diamonds would still be there as well.

Maybe this new very accurate cushion material could be manufactured in blue or green?

Deeman3
02-04-2008, 09:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr>
Other than tradition, I can see no use in persisting with the diamond system of table markings for banks. Bank shots are already difficult enough to make, as they typically include a cut shot, as well as a need for spin and speed compensation. It would seem that improving the table markings to make it easier to set up banks and kicks could broaden the scope of these shots, which are now taken mostly out of desperation.

If nothing else, marking divisions at 0.1 of rail length, rather than 0.25 would be an advancement, as would putting the marks next to the cushion cloth.

I would be interested to hear if anyone has experimented with alternative rail marking systems. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> For people who can't bank, I don't think making an easier marking system is the answer. There are many varibles in banking and the spot you contact the cushion is only a small part.

If you're gonna go for easier, maybe we should add mirrors under the cushions to let people see the opposite pocket. I still don't think it will improve the overall skills of bankers. After a while, you either develop a feel for the shots or not. The present markings are a nice reference but on single rail banks, it's mostly feel for the shot, angle, speed and spin. </font color>

DeadCrab
02-04-2008, 09:43 AM
Cushion markings was one of the things I was considering. For calculating kicks and banks by similar triangles (ratio method)cushion distance measurements are the critical thing.

Cushion cloth is needed to keep the ball from hopping, but marking points with a small embossing type stitch on the top of the cushion cloth might work.

catscradle
02-04-2008, 12:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Why not just draw out bank and kick angles right on the cloth? If you want to make it easier, make it easier!

Steve <hr /></blockquote>
LOL........

catscradle
02-04-2008, 12:59 PM
I think they serve as an aiming reference point once you decide where to hit the rail. I think they are a very poor tool for deciding where to hit the rail. I think the current number of diamonds is just fine. Matter of fact more might just amount to clutter.

MosconiJr
02-04-2008, 02:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Why not just draw out bank and kick angles right on the cloth? If you want to make it easier, make it easier!

Steve <hr /></blockquote>
This response seems a bit arrogant to me................

Steve, you know that there is no way to draw angles all over the bed of the cloth. Although it isn't what purists want to hear, it doesn't seem like the question is that far out of line to get this type of response.

MJr

pooltchr
02-04-2008, 02:45 PM
It wasn't meant to be arrogant. Diamonds are on tables as a reference point. Part of learning how to play the game is learning how to use them as necessary. More reference points isn't a solution...learning to use the ones we already have is.

My "suggestion" was made knowing full well the idea was absurd. You can't possibly draw out enough angles to cover every possible kick angle. We already have 18 diamonds to use. If that isn't enough, I don't think 24 or 48 is going to be enough either.

For that matter, increasing pocket size might make banking easier as well...but do we want to do that? I seriously doubt it.

Sorry if it came out the wrong way.

Steve

Billy_Bob
02-05-2008, 09:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr> ...Cushion cloth is needed to keep the ball from hopping, but marking points with a small embossing type stitch on the top of the cushion cloth might work. <hr /></blockquote>

I was thinking that different cloth on the cushions would change things? For example slick Teflon cloth vs slow cloth.

Also I re-cloth my table myself and I HATE to do the cushions. It would be really nice if there were cushions which did not need cloth on them.

Then when installing the cloth on a cushion, it is stretched. No telling how far it will stretch. So can't place marks on cushions until after the cloth is installed.

Perhaps a stencil or silkscreen would do the trick?

One thing I have noticed on old bar tables is that the cloth is stretched more tightly on the cushions near the pockets. This makes the rubber in these areas bend in a little. So you don't have a straight line down the cushion. It is straight until it gets about a half foot near the pocket then there is a slight curve in the rubber. There is not the same uniform stretching of the cloth across the entire length of cushion.

SKennedy
02-05-2008, 11:06 AM
The last 6 months or so I have been trying to incorporate diamonds more into my kick and bank shots. Previous, I just went more with my instincts. As a result, I think that part of my game has suffered. I do use the marks as general reference points, but I think I'm trying to rely upon them too much. I think the markings are just fine the way they are.

Jager85
02-09-2008, 10:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> It wasn't meant to be arrogant. Diamonds are on tables as a reference point. Part of learning how to play the game is learning how to use them as necessary. More reference points isn't a solution...learning to use the ones we already have is.

My "suggestion" was made knowing full well the idea was absurd. You can't possibly draw out enough angles to cover every possible kick angle. We already have 18 diamonds to use. If that isn't enough, I don't think 24 or 48 is going to be enough either.

For that matter, increasing pocket size might make banking easier as well...but do we want to do that? I seriously doubt it.

Sorry if it came out the wrong way.

Steve <hr /></blockquote>

I do believe that deadcrab was talking about extra reference points for speed or english compensations. Say you have a dead straight bank from the side pocket to the corner hitting exactly the second diamond. Now I need to hit the ball hard for my next shape; this will decrease the rebound angle from the rail. Now I have little reference as where to aim, but with more diamonds I could fine tune the shot a bit easier.

bradb
02-09-2008, 11:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr>
Bank shots are already difficult enough to make, as they typically include a cut shot, as well as a need for spin and speed compensation.
<hr /></blockquote>

Actually for many banks or kicks a player does'nt need and should'nt use spin. Hitting the Qball exact center with slight top for pace will give an accurate rebound, so the diamonds provide a true reference point in controlling those shots. But even when you do need spin you can use the diamonds the same way by allowing for the english.

I like to practice my kick shots by placing an object ball at various places on the table, then put the Qball at a diamond location. Now shoot using the other diamonds as reference points to see how you can hit the ball with 1, 2 and 3 rails. This is a great way for finding lanes to get out of trouble. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif -brad