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LWW
02-11-2008, 07:09 AM
Moore said they would win. Murtha said we had already lost. OH MY! (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article3346386.ece)

[ QUOTE ]
Al-Qaeda in Iraq faces an “extraordinary crisis”. Last year's mass defection of ordinary Sunnis from al-Qaeda to the US military “created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight”. The terrorist group's security structure suffered “total collapse”.

These are the words not of al-Qaeda's enemies but of one of its own leaders in Anbar province — once the group's stronghold. They were set down last summer in a 39-page letter seized during a US raid on an al-Qaeda base near Samarra in November.

The US military released extracts from that letter yesterday along with a second seized in another November raid that is almost as startling.

That second document is a bitter 16-page testament written last October by a local al-Qaeda leader near Balad, north of Baghdad. “I am Abu-Tariq, emir of the al-Layin and al-Mashahdah sector,” the author begins. He goes on to describe how his force of 600 shrank to fewer than 20.

“We were mistreated, cheated and betrayed by some of our brothers,” he says. “Those people were nothing but hypocrites, liars and traitors and were waiting for the right moment to switch sides with whoever pays them most.”

Assuming the two documents are authentic — and the US military insists that they are — they provide a rare insight into an organisation thrown into turmoil by the rise of the Awakening movement. More than 80,000 Sunnis have joined the tribal groups of “concerned local citizens” [CLCs] that have helped to eject al-Qaeda from swaths of western and northern Iraq, including much of Baghdad.

US intelligence officials cautioned, however, that the documents were snapshots of two small areas and that al-Qaeda was far from a spent force.

They said that while the number of car bombs had fallen over the past year, the organisation had doubled its attacks on CLC members since October. More than 20 people were killed last night when a suicide car bomber attacked a checkpoint near Balad.

Al-Qaeda gunmen stormed a compound of an “Awakening” group in Iraq's northern Nineveh province yesterday, the US military said. Among those killed in the fighting were 10 suspected Al-Qaeda in Iraq fighters.

The Anbar letter conceded that the “crusaders” — Americans — had gained the upper hand by persuading ordinary Sunnis that al-Qaeda was responsible for their suffering and by exploiting their poverty to entice them into the security forces. Al-Qaeda's “Islamic State of Iraq is faced with an extraordinary crisis, especially in al-Anbar”, the unnamed emir admitted.

In an apparent reference to al-Qaeda's brutal tactics, he said of the Americans and their Sunni allies: “We helped them to unite against us . . . The Americans and the apostates launched their campaigns against us and we found ourselves in a circle not being able to move, organise or conduct our operations.”

He said of the loss of Anbar province: “This created weakness and psychological defeat. This also created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight. The morale of the fighters went down . . . There was a total collapse in the security structure of the organisation.” The emir complained that the supply of foreign fighters had dwindled and that they found it increasingly hard to operate inside Iraq because they could not blend in. Foreign suicide bombers determined to kill “not less than 20 or 30 infidels” grew disillusioned because they were kept hanging about and only given small operations. Some gave up and went home.

Finally the emir recommended rewards for killing apostates, using doctors to kill infidels and offering gifts to tribal leaders. He said al-Qaeda's fighters should be sent to more promising areas such as Diyala province or Baghdad — which is exactly what happened.

Rear-Admiral Gregory Smith, the US military spokesman in Baghdad, called Abu-Tariq's testament a “woe-is-me kind of document”. It calls the Sunnis who switched sides a “cancer in the body of al-Jihad movement”, and declares: “We should have no mercy on them.”

The author lists those who have made off with al-Qaeda weapons or money, describes the group's arsenal, including C5 rockets, which are used against helicopters, and records the fate of the battalions under his command.

Most of the first battalion's fighters “betrayed us and joined al-Sahwah [the Awakening]”, he says. The leader of the second ran away and all but two of its 300 fighters joined the Awakening. The activities of the third were “frozen due to their present conditions”. Of the fourth he writes: “Most of its members are scoundrels, sectarians, non-believers”.

He lists 38 people still working for him but beside five names he has written comments like “We have not seen him for twenty days” or “left us a week ago”. He concludes, wistfully: “And that is the number of fighters left in my sector.”

'WE WERE MISTREATED AND CHEATED'

Extracts from letters

Abu-Tariq, al-Qaeda leader

“There were almost 600 fighters in our sector before the tribes changed course 360 degrees . . . Many of our fighters quit and some of them joined the deserters . . . As a result of that the number of fighters dropped down to 20 or less.”

“We were mistreated, cheated and betrayed by some of our brothers who used to be part of the Jihadi movement, therefore we must not have mercy on those traitors until they come back to the right side or get eliminated completely.”

Unnamed emir, Anbar province

“The Islamic State of Iraq [al-Qaeda] is faced with an extraordinary crisis, especially in al-Anbar province. Al-Qaeda’s expulsion from Anbar created weakness and psychological defeat. This also created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight.

“The morale of the fighters went down and they wanted to be transferred to administrative positions rather than be fighters. There was a total collapse in the security structure of the organisation.”<hr /></blockquote>

LWW

bamadog
02-11-2008, 11:11 AM
This, like all good news about progress in Iraq, will certainly depress the Left.
A Latte should lift their spirits.

hondo
02-11-2008, 02:13 PM
Dawg thinks we want our kids to die in Iraq.
Do you think he's on crack?
The left! The left!
Most of the left are who has kids over there.
My son-in-law is over there. He dies and my grandchildren have no father.
What a frigging idiot!

LWW
02-11-2008, 03:00 PM
Then why does good word from Iraq always infuriate you.

If the kids were your concern I would assume you would be ecstatic?

LWW

hondo
02-11-2008, 04:16 PM
I'm sure you can find posts where I am sceptical of the " good news."
I challenge you to to show me where I am infuriated over
actual good news.
You can't. But you knew that, didn't you?

hondo
02-11-2008, 04:54 PM
http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler.html

I like your comparison between Hitler &amp; Hilary.
Thought you might like to see some different views.

LWW
02-11-2008, 06:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler.html

I like your comparison between Hitler &amp; Hilary.
Thought you might like to see some different views. <hr /></blockquote>
Oh, I've seen all of those.

FWIW, the banner is a mirror. For 7+ years it's been "BUSH = HITLER" and the banner demonstrates that anyone with Photochop skills superior to SONoma can patch together a piece of "(INSERT NAME) = HITLER" and some loony tune will believe it. It doesn't make it true, but moonbats and wingnuts and partisans don't care.

To moonbats and wingnuts and partisans they can only see abject evil in the other side and will overlook and hand polish any blemish on their side. That's why the loony left sees "BUSH = HITLER" and it's why they saw "BUSH = HITLER" with his father and why they saw "REAGAN = HITLER" and "NIXON = HITLER" and "FORD = HITLER" and "GOLDWATER = HITLER" and "DOLE = HITLER" and "RUMSFELD = HITLER" and "ROVE = HITLER". It doesn't matter, they aren't on the same side as you so they must be Hitlerian. You would see "MOTHER THERESA = HITLER" and "BOB DENVER = HITLER" just as well.

I had wondered how long it might take for one of you to actually confess that you might be offended by gross mischaracterizations of someone ... because not a damned one of you here on the left can see that any of the inane banality of the ridiculous assertions devoid of evidence, bereft of cogent thought, and full of deceit that are bandied about here.

http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler/inminds-stopbush-auschwitz.jpg

BTW, the above is from your link. Please don't tell me you think this is a rational sentient being doing this?

LWW

bamadog
02-11-2008, 07:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Dawg thinks we want our kids to die in Iraq.
Do you think he's on crack?
The left! The left!
Most of the left are who has kids over there.
My son-in-law is over there. He dies and my grandchildren have no father.
What a frigging idiot! <hr /></blockquote>

Once again, it's all about you isn't it hondo.
If the left is happy about our progress in Iraq then why do neither Hillary nor Obama say so? Why does the MSM essentially ignore our recent progress there?
These are hard questions for you, so let me answer them for you.
Because the left is invested in an ideology that sees us bogged down in an un-winnable war.
The bad news from Iraq illustrates and reinforces that ideology. The good news in Iraq is, then, bad news for the left, and they treat it as such.
It conflicts with their agenda and ideology. ( just look at any of Gayle's rants ) They see GWB as a reckless war-monger, so reports of massacres, torture, innocents killed by our forces is on the front page.
While the Right, see him as a leader of conviction, and resolve who took the fight to our enemies, and liberated two hell holes. We see our troops as intelligent and patriotic heroes. The left see them as disillusioned dupes and victims. Again, read the NYT or Gayle's rants.

bamadog
02-11-2008, 07:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> I'm sure you can find posts where I am sceptical of the " good news."
I challenge you to to show me where I am infuriated over
actual good news.
You can't. But you knew that, didn't you? <hr /></blockquote>

Why don't you just show one of your posts that acknowledges or celebrates, even one of, our victories in Iraq? If you can't find one of yours, use one of Gayle's.
Good luck.

LWW
02-11-2008, 07:56 PM
http://www.paramountconcessions.com/images/popcorn.jpg

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LWW

bamadog
02-13-2008, 11:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bamadog:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> I'm sure you can find posts where I am sceptical of the " good news."
I challenge you to to show me where I am infuriated over
actual good news.
You can't. But you knew that, didn't you? <hr /></blockquote>

Why don't you just show one of your posts that acknowledges or celebrates, even one of, our victories in Iraq? If you can't find one of yours, use one of Gayle's.
Good luck. <hr /></blockquote>

Tick Tock, Tick Tock

LWW
02-13-2008, 12:26 PM
http://www.paramountconcessions.com/images/popcorn.jpg

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LWW