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View Full Version : Installing Sniper Tips



SpiderMan
02-11-2008, 01:19 PM
I'll be doing my first Sniper install this afternoon. I don't keep them in stock because no one's ever requested one, but this customer gave me the tip with his cue. He's been shipping his cue out of town for tip replacements, which seemed like an incredible waste of time.

Anyway, back to the Sniper. It seems to have a thin pre-attached black "pad" on the glue side. The logical assumption would be that this should be scuffed and glued, but when I look at his old installation there is no pad, as if the installer sanded the pad completely away before glueing.

Tiger's web site offered no suggestions, other than to note that the black side gets the glue.

Who's got the "official" word on this? Do you sand the "pad" completely off? If so, then why is it there to begin with?

SpiderMan

catscradle
02-11-2008, 01:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> I'll be doing my first Sniper install this afternoon. I don't keep them in stock because no one's ever requested one, but this customer gave me the tip with his cue. He's been shipping his cue out of town for tip replacements, which seemed like an incredible waste of time.

Anyway, back to the Sniper. It seems to have a thin pre-attached black "pad" on the glue side. The logical assumption would be that this should be scuffed and glued, but when I look at his old installation there is no pad, as if the installer sanded the pad completely away before glueing.

Tiger's web site offered no suggestions, other than to note that the black side gets the glue.

Who's got the "official" word on this? Do you sand the "pad" completely off? If so, then why is it there to begin with?

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>
I can't answer that question, but fwiw, I've heard they are even more heat sensitive than other layered tips. I put one on myself and it delam'd. I had a reputable cue maker in the area put one on and it delam'd. I quit them after that. I did like the way it played though.

Deeman3
02-11-2008, 02:41 PM
I love this tip but found you can't scuff it up agressively like some other tips. I use a porcupine like tip sticker very lightly every few hours of play. It has performed very well for me with less miscues and has maintained its shape for over 8 months without tearing, bagging or saggin at the knees.

I may never use another type tip.

SKennedy
02-11-2008, 02:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> I love this tip but found you can't scuff it up agressively like some other tips. I use a porcupine like tip sticker very lightly every few hours of play. It has performed very well for me with less miscues and has maintained its shape for over 8 months without tearing, bagging or saggin at the knees.

I may never use another type tip. <hr /></blockquote>

That sounds just like the tip I use, but I don't know for sure the type of tip I have. It came with the stick and I never bothered to ask...assuming the proprieter even knew.

SpiderMan
02-12-2008, 11:31 AM
I looked at one of the new tips under a microscope. The black layer is a very thick coating of paint, not a thin pad. So, it makes sense to sand it completely off before glueing.

SpiderMan

Deeman3
02-12-2008, 11:35 AM
Spiderman,

I can't see anything of the pad on my tips so I guess they do sand them down.

SKennedy
02-12-2008, 03:08 PM
What would be the function of the thick black paint coating? Why would the manufacturer place it there or leave it there if it should be sanded off? I'm not argueing, I'm just curious.

SpiderMan
02-12-2008, 03:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> What would be the function of the thick black paint coating? Why would the manufacturer place it there or leave it there if it should be sanded off? I'm not argueing, I'm just curious. <hr /></blockquote>

I can't really guess the purpose - maybe they just wanted to be different, and marked it this way rather than stamping "glue side" on it.

Honestly, I can't think of an overpowering advantage to a layer of thick black paint on one surface of the tip.

SpiderMan

SKennedy
02-12-2008, 03:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SKennedy:</font><hr> What would be the function of the thick black paint coating? Why would the manufacturer place it there or leave it there if it should be sanded off? I'm not argueing, I'm just curious. <hr /></blockquote>

I can't really guess the purpose - maybe they just wanted to be different, and marked it this way rather than stamping "glue side" on it.

Honestly, I can't think of an overpowering advantage to a layer of thick black paint on one surface of the tip.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

I guess that's why we are not in the tip making business?

BLACKHEART
02-12-2008, 04:50 PM
I can't really guess the purpose - maybe they just wanted to be different, and marked it this way rather than stamping "glue side" on it.

Honestly, I can't think of an overpowering advantage to a layer of thick black paint on one surface of the tip.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

I've put on a lot of these. They're popular here. The black painted side IS the glue side. If you look at it under magnification, you'll see that the tip is made up of thick &amp; thin layers. The black side is a thin layer. If you sand ALL of the black off you'll be INTO the thick layer below. This gives you a good solid layer as a base. Oh by the way you can sand, scuff or tap layered tips, but you are not supposed to prick it. That will pull the layers apart...JER

SKennedy
02-12-2008, 05:06 PM
Thanks for the info.

SpiderMan
02-13-2008, 10:29 AM
The player came by and picked up his cue yesterday afternoon, paid me, studied the tip for a few seconds, then gave me an extra $5. And said he'd be bringing another one later this week.

SpiderMan

Sid_Vicious
02-13-2008, 10:53 AM
I had a look at that tip under the scope when Spiderman brought into work. It looked to me that there may have neen an impregnation of some white-ish material throught the tip, showed up in the polished sidewalls. If so, then that material could possibly be altering to less than hard during grooming excessively and threatening overall bond strength. Just an observation, maybe it was simply SG...sid~~~thinking that tip would be way too soft by his game

Heretic
02-13-2008, 12:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr>
Oh by the way you can sand, scuff or tap layered tips, but you are not supposed to prick it. That will pull the layers apart...JER <hr /></blockquote>

I did not know this, and I use a pick most of the time......thanks for the information

BLACKHEART
02-13-2008, 07:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> I had a look at that tip under the scope when Spiderman brought into work. It looked to me that there may have neen an impregnation of some white-ish material throught the tip, showed up in the polished sidewalls. If so, then that material could possibly be altering to less than hard during grooming excessively and threatening overall bond strength. Just an observation, maybe it was simply SG...sid~~~thinking that tip would be way too soft by his game <hr /></blockquote>

A lot of tips have those spots in them, but when they are tanned to a brown color, you just don't notice them. These are taned using the same method as the Elkmaster. The "chromed" method leaves the leather that gray/blue color &amp; the lighter spots show up easier...JER

SpiderMan
02-17-2008, 11:51 AM
Bastard knocked me out of the winner's bracket at a tournament yesterday /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Rich R.
02-18-2008, 08:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Bastard knocked me out of the winner's bracket at a tournament yesterday /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif <hr /></blockquote>
That will teach you to do such a damn good job. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Jager85
02-22-2008, 01:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Heretic:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr>
Oh by the way you can sand, scuff or tap layered tips, but you are not supposed to prick it. That will pull the layers apart...JER <hr /></blockquote>

I did not know this, and I use a pick most of the time......thanks for the information <hr /></blockquote>

Ditto, no matter what tip I use my Tip Pik is my best friend.

Curtis

catscradle
02-22-2008, 02:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jager85:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Heretic:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr>
Oh by the way you can sand, scuff or tap layered tips, but you are not supposed to prick it. That will pull the layers apart...JER <hr /></blockquote>

I did not know this, and I use a pick most of the time......thanks for the information <hr /></blockquote>

Ditto, no matter what tip I use my Tip Pik is my best friend.

Curtis <hr /></blockquote>

I don't use a tip pik, just scuff with sandpaper once in a while. I think some people stick and twist with a tippik, I think that is what damages a layered tip. I know plenty of people that use a tip pik on layered tips without a problem, maybe they're just lucky.

Heretic
02-22-2008, 02:48 PM
I really don't use the stick, with the moori tip, that much, so I just put it in a case by itself, and put an old tapper in the pocket instead of a pick........Hopefully this will help me remember not to pick it

SpiderMan
02-22-2008, 02:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote catscradle:</font><hr> I don't use a tip pik, just scuff with sandpaper once in a while. I think some people stick and twist with a tippik, I think that is what damages a layered tip. I know plenty of people that use a tip pik on layered tips without a problem, maybe they're just lucky. <hr /></blockquote>

You are right, the twisting motion will delaminate a layered tip. But you can push the pik against the tip and just "rock" it around to perforate without tearing. This seems OK for layered tips. Personally, I just scuff/shape with sandpaper.

One of the things I hate to see is someone using the pik like a hammer, banging the points into the tip. Invariably they screw up and miss, raking a big gouge into the side of their ferrule. When the gouge fills with chalk they notice it, call me over, and say their ferrule is cracked. I tell them no, some woodpecker with a tip pik just had bad aim.

I usually can't polish these gouges out when I re-tip their cues.

SpiderMan

Deeman3
02-22-2008, 03:26 PM
When it was mentioned that a tip pic would kill a layered tip, I started to disagree but understand that I use one differently than some, a light push that only scores the surface slightly. If I ever have problems (I am fairly new to layered tips) I'll repent. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

wolfdancer
02-22-2008, 03:52 PM
"One of the things I hate to see is someone using the pik like a hammer, banging the points into the tip. Invariably they screw up and miss, raking a big gouge into the side of their ferrule. When the gouge fills with chalk they notice it, call me over, and say their ferrule is cracked. I tell them no, some woodpecker with a tip pik just had bad aim."

Reminds me of a cue repair guy here, couple of years back... that wrote...he loved the all in one tool...with the mushroom edge trimmer...led to a lot of tip replacements for him.
I borrowed and used the pic tool last night....I'm afraid I did a little hammering with it....won't make that mistake again, thanks for the tip (no pun intended)

Bambu
02-24-2008, 10:03 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote BLACKHEART:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;
Oh by the way you can sand, scuff or tap layered tips, but you are not supposed to prick it. That will pull the layers apart...JER &lt;hr /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I did not know this, and I use a pick most of the time......thanks for the information </div></div>

Me too. I prick my moori med. now and then, and have not had anything bad happen. Still, its good to know not to do that too much, I guess. Thanks.

Jager85
02-27-2008, 11:32 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SpiderMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote catscradle:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; I don't use a tip pik, just scuff with sandpaper once in a while. I think some people stick and twist with a tippik, I think that is what damages a layered tip. I know plenty of people that use a tip pik on layered tips without a problem, maybe they're just lucky. &lt;hr /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You are right, the twisting motion will delaminate a layered tip. But you can push the pik against the tip and just "rock" it around to perforate without tearing. This seems OK for layered tips. Personally, I just scuff/shape with sandpaper.

One of the things I hate to see is someone using the pik like a hammer, banging the points into the tip. Invariably they screw up and miss, raking a big gouge into the side of their ferrule. When the gouge fills with chalk they notice it, call me over, and say their ferrule is cracked. I tell them no, some woodpecker with a tip pik just had bad aim.

I usually can't polish these gouges out when I re-tip their cues.

SpiderMan </div></div>

This is how I was taught to use my tip pik. I have always used it this way and never had a problem; my 3 kids are proof I got good aim...

I have never heard of twisting the pik in the tip, I can see this even damaging a solid leather tip.

Curtis