Keep your SUV, but ditch your burgers...

[sack316]

been doing some watching and reading here lately, getting to know our new pal global warming a little better. I'm even actually thinking about finally breaking down and watching Gore's movie later tonight or tomorrow, just to see.

But thus far, the main thing I've seen/heard consistantly are the words "could, possibly, may, conceivably, perhaps" and other words of the sort. Basically words I would associate with "speculation", as in, this is a bunch of speculation... but we really don't know. Of course, I do say we should care about our environment and continue to look at what impact we may be having on our home... but at the same time I don't see myself freaking out over speculation, could be's, and possibles. I also found fascinating that a tragedy like Katrina is blamed, at least in part, by global warming... but credible scientists that DO BELIEVE global warming is a major concern to address immediately said that it is impossible to directly relate the two. Makes me wonder what some of the people are trying to pull that do make such claims.

At any rate, I really found it interesting that research was done on some basic thing in life. For example: Eating a burger. And the carbon footprint left from burgers per year in the US alone equates to 200 million metric tons of CO2. (this was figured by accoutning for all the steps it takes along the way to produce, deliver, cook, serve etc. the burgers). They said it was more damaging than all the SUV's and Cars emissions that we make. So if this data was readily available to me, someone who really hasn't bought into the GW thing but has more of a slight curiosity in it, why hasn't this issue been brought to the forefront along with the rest? How many hybrid pushers are pushing the Vegan lifestyle as well? (I'm also curious to find what the footprint for that may be, though lol).

Bottom line, as much as I THINK i should and want to look at this stuff more seriously... there are just too many outlandish and rediculous people throwing garbage around about it all for me not to laugh about it at the same time. And surely I'm not alone in that feeling, and thus aren't those particular people doing more harm than good for their cause? I dunno, I guess it's all possible, concievable, may be, etc. Then again, I suppose it's also possible I could reach up my rear and find gold too... but in the end I know what I'd really find.

Sack

[LWW]

Here is the bottom line from the Goremons ... and yes they ARE a religion.

- I support cleaner air and water regs.

- I support raising fleet fuel economy.

- I believe GW is happening.

- I don't believe we are anything approaching the primary cause.

Because of the last point the Goremons consider me a heretic planet raper.

This whole thing has NOTHING to do with the environment and EVERYTHING to do with turning more of the control of the economy over to the gubmint and more of US sovereignty to the UN.

These people are seriously deluded cultists and are IMHO dangerous to the future of the world.

LWW

[bsmutz]

Yes, LWW, you've made it quite clear that IYHO nearly everything leads to global catastrophe. :rolleyes: Why don't you just do yourself in so you don't have to live in fear anymore? Need any help?

[SKennedy]

Sack,
I would recommend watching the movie. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry during much of it. "Cause and effect" relationships are assumed that may or may not be true. An example is is one graph (graphs seemed manipulated to show a more visual dramatic effect or impact) where the concentration of carbon dioxide in air is compared to air temperature. Of course, a direct correlation is shown but it is assumed that the increase in CO2 is causing a temperature rise. When in reality, it just might be possible that warm air has the capability of holding more CO2 than colder air. In another graph he shows temperatures over time (historical) as a function of CO2, and he points out that a small change (on the graph) was equivalent to comparing the ice age to all ice melting, etc. No problem there....,but he then proceeds to get upon a ladder and indicates how the CO2 levels have risen well above that level and consequently the temp graph climbs steeply and much more signficantly then ever before....! That's great, except based upon current data he shows on the graph, no iife would exist as it would all be vaporized.
All in all, I've seen dramatic fiction movies that had less drama. And don't forget the little snippets of the young senator in the 70's who altready knew about global warming trying to warn congress but no one would listen to him......Not only is the earth a victim, but Gore is also portrayed as a victim.
But, he does a good job portraying what he wants you to see and believe. Do I think he has sinister reasons for what he does? No. I believe he is genuine. I just happen to think he, and yes..many others, are wrong! IMO the rise in global temps we are seeing is temporary and is likely from the sun's activities. 10 to 20 years from now we'll be back to global cooling fears, or have made a full cycle again and be back to warming concerns.
Contrary to what some think on here, I do care about the environment and I do give to conservation groups..I particularly like the Nature Conservatory...if we want to worry about something, I think 3rd world countries and China pose a much greater threat to our global environment than the USA or Europe!
Enjoy the movie!

[SKennedy]

Relative to my comment on "cause and effect" relationship between rising temps and CO2.....I have just read a new report indicating that the correlation between the 2 is in near-unison; however, recent studies indicate the temp rise precedes the CO2 increase. The data also correlates with findings from Antarctic ice cores. Findings indicate CO2 levels typically rise roughly 200 to 1,000 years after temperatures rise. Researchers at USC agreed, based upon deep sea temp and oceanic temp trends before CO2 levels rise.
Also, many true climate scientists are concerned about the negative backlash against science and scientists when the public learns that much of the info being put out about climate change is wrong or misleading.

[LWW]

Al Gore agreed to that in congress in a rare moment of honesty.

LWW

[sack316]

Yeah, I started watching it late last night... fell asleep at some point and plan to finish watching it sometime this evening. It was enough, thus far, to gain my attention and interest (for both positive and negative reasons).

What I never really thought about was something I saw on National Geographic, and how millions of years ago when dinosaurs were roaming the earth there was the instance happening that is theorized could eventually happen now. IE the CO2 levels caused global warming, doomsday scenarios, etc. and our atmosphere and planet over many many years "self corrected" so to speak, and cleansed out the dangerous levels. These things were then absorbed into Earth, and underwater, etc. and eventually become coal and other fossil fuels in which we use today. Only difference between now and then being we pump it back into the atmosphere at a much faster rate than was done millions of years ago. I'm sure I didn't phrase that all correctly, nor do I think I entirely grasped the whole story, but you get the basics of what I got out of it. It was presented in a way that did at least make me listen and give it all some creidiblity, but did give rise to many other questions I had... mainly of which is if such a scenario happened before naturally, how then do we KNOW we are causing a situation which may or may not exist as it is being presented? And if we really wanna slow the CO2 output to a crawl, would we then need to "put a cork" on volcanos (for example)?

Sack

[SKennedy]

We'd have to cork many things....including ourselves. I just think one needs to look at both sides of the issue and the data available in order to come up with your own opinion, and not just believe media hype.
As for dinosaur extinction? First comets, then CO2, but the latest thing I just saw indicates virus type infection...but there are many theories about that subject and that's all they are.....theories...some likely better than others, and one, or more than one may actually be true about the demise of dinos.