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pooltchr
02-18-2008, 07:43 PM
I ran across an interesting bit of information while doing my taxes. Seems that the popular lie that the low income people pay more taxes than the wealthy is pure BS!

Take a look at the tax rates for various income levels. While the lowest income earners are only taxed at 10%, as your income increases, so does the percentage of your tax rate. Wow! And here I thought if I made more money, I would be paying less in taxes!

http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=164272,00.html

Oh yeah, this is straight from the IRS website.

Steve

eg8r
02-18-2008, 11:09 PM
LOL, Warren Buffet told all of them that he does everything he can to exploit every loop hole in the system and paid less taxes than his secretary and they had zero complaints about Buffet whatsoever. The lefties don't care about the facts about who actually pays the bills in this country.

eg8r

LWW
02-19-2008, 05:03 AM
The lefties here don't much care about the facts on anything.

LWW

Gayle in MD
02-19-2008, 01:30 PM
Tax rates, and taxes collected, are two different matters. If you think millionaires and billionaires are paying their share of taxes, you're worse off than I thought.

It isn't the low income who take the brunt for this thievery, it's the middle class.

Corporations have twelve trillion dollars hidden in the Carribbean. Not that you'd care about that. Recent articles from respected economists are predicting in excess of ten trillion, resulting from Bush's policies, over time in real debt. Some say that with the costs for our Veterans, included, it will be more than that. Not that you'd care about a little thing like debt when considering economics.

Gayle in Md.

Deeman3
02-19-2008, 01:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Tax rates, and taxes collected, are two different matters. Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> I agree, God Bless America.... </font color>

eg8r
02-19-2008, 02:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Tax rates, and taxes collected, are two different matters. If you think millionaires and billionaires are paying their share of taxes, you're worse off than I thought. <hr /></blockquote> Why don't we hear a peep out of you about Buffet cheating the poor and middle class out of his tax dollars as he exploits all the loopholes?

[ QUOTE ]
It isn't the low income who take the brunt for this thievery, it's the middle class.
<hr /></blockquote> The middle class does not take the brunt either. However since you mentioned the lower class they are the benefactors. They don't pay in their fair share yet they reap the most benefits.

[ QUOTE ]
Corporations have twelve trillion dollars hidden in the Carribbean. <hr /></blockquote> And if you take any deductions on your taxes to get out of paying your fair share then you are no different than these corporations.

eg8r

bamadog
02-19-2008, 02:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> If you think millionaires and billionaires are paying their share of taxes, you're worse off than I thought.


Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Just more delusion from you. Here's some medicine for you.

FACT: The top 1% of wage earners pay 35% of all the Federal income taxes.
Did you get that?

FACT: The bottom 50% of wage earners pay 3 1/2 % of all Federal income taxes.
Is it starting to sink in yet?

FACT: The US has the second highest corporate tax rates in the world.
Are you getting the picture now?

DeadCrab
02-19-2008, 04:38 PM
So Bamadog, do you think an E-2 in the Army, making $18,000 a year should be paying higher taxes?

bamadog
02-19-2008, 04:56 PM
What has that got to do with what we are discussing?
My comments are in reply to Gayle's assertion that the rich are not paying their fair share of taxes.
Anyone making $18000 is paying very little, if any, federal income tax.
What do you think?

LWW
02-19-2008, 06:11 PM
An E2 makes $17,124.

If filing jointly or head of household they pay zero income tax.

If filing single they pay under $900.

LWW

DeadCrab
02-19-2008, 06:54 PM
*******************
What has that got to do with what we are discussing?
My comments are in reply to Gayle's assertion that the rich are not paying their fair share of taxes.Anyone making $18000 is paying very little, if any, federal income tax.
What do you think?
*********************************

I think there should be a little more respect for the working poor, which includes many of our military and public servants. Not to mention those who have been forced out of good paying union manufacturing jobs and into jobs that are just above fast food level and without benefits. The basic necessities of life take up a larger percentage of their income than it does the rich.

So, I guess it does not bother me terribly that the tax brackets rise with income.

Since you stated this:
**********
FACT: The bottom 50% of wage earners pay 3 1/2 % of all Federal income taxes.
Is it starting to sink in yet?
************
By the tone of your second sentence, I took it to mean that you thought they were being disproportionately favored. My mistake if that is not the way you meant it.

DeadCrab
02-19-2008, 07:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LWW:</font><hr> An E2 makes $17,124.

If filing jointly or head of household they pay zero income tax.

If filing single they pay under $900.

LWW <hr /></blockquote>


Based on this military pay chart, I stand by my prior statement:
http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/2008MilitaryPayCharts35.pdf

Look at that chart, and you will see we have a lot of working poor in the service.

We also don't pay much money to cops who patrol our streets at night, people who work in hospitals, social workers, and the CNA's that will wipe the drool off our faces when we are too feeble to do so ourselves.

A lot of these important jobs don't pay much, and I don't see much reason in shifting the tax burden from the cake-eaters to them. In my opinion, they pay less because they should.

bamadog
02-19-2008, 08:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote LWW:</font><hr> An E2 makes $17,124.

If filing jointly or head of household they pay zero income tax.

If filing single they pay under $900.

LWW <hr /></blockquote>


Based on this military pay chart, I stand by my prior statement:
http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/2008MilitaryPayCharts35.pdf

Look at that chart, and you will see we have a lot of working poor in the service.

We also don't pay much money to cops who patrol our streets at night, people who work in hospitals, social workers, and the CNA's that will wipe the drool off our faces when we are too feeble to do so ourselves.

A lot of these important jobs don't pay much, and I don't see much reason in shifting the tax burden from the cake-eaters to them. In my opinion, they pay less because they should. <hr /></blockquote>

Well Dead Crab, the market determines how much public employees are paid. They are certainly free to take their services to the private sector.
Since about half the earners in the country are getting a free ride, what do you think is an appropriate tax rate for "cake-eaters"?
How do you think the "cake-eaters" got the cake?

DeadCrab
02-19-2008, 08:38 PM
****************
Well Dead Crab, the market determines how much public employees are paid. They are certainly free to take their services to the private sector.
**************************
Good thing they don't, eh?

*********************
Since about half the earners in the country are getting a free ride,
******************
I doubt it is that high. A big chunk of those low level wage earners are full time students.

******************
what do you think is an appropriate tax rate for "cake-eaters"?
********************
'bout what it is

*******************
How do you think the "cake-eaters" got the cake?
********************
Some of them were born into it, some stole it, some married it, some earned it, some used OPM.

It is a whole lot easier to get a slice if you were born white, male, and upper middle class (or higher).

Betch yo' ass.

bamadog
02-19-2008, 09:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr>


How do you think the "cake-eaters" got the cake?
********************
Some of them were born into it, some stole it, some married it, some earned it, some used OPM.

It is a whole lot easier to get a slice if you were born white, male, and upper middle class (or higher).

Betch yo' ass. <hr /></blockquote>

Looks like you bought into that whole victimhood, race/class-warfare mindset. Hopefully you'll grow out of it.

pooltchr
02-20-2008, 05:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DeadCrab:</font><hr> and I don't see much reason in shifting the tax burden from the cake-eaters to them. In my opinion, they pay less because they should. <hr /></blockquote>

Nobody is suggesting shifting the tax burdon to the low wage earners. There are several posters here who seem to think that the wealthiest in this country pay very little tax. The point of this post was to show them the error of their thinking.

Quote Alvin Lee (10 Years After) "Tax the rich, feed the poor, 'till there are no rich no more"

Steve

LWW
02-20-2008, 05:52 AM
Bet yo ass you haven't a clue.

I'm multiracial, born in Appalachia, and dropped out of school in the 10th grade to support myself and help the family.

35 yrs later and I've earned a GED, went to college, worked myself to #2 in a fairly large company, started my own business more than once, and earned a well above the US average net worth.

OTOH, I never believed myself to be a victim. I escaped the clutches of liberal nonsense at an early age.

Don't believe the lie.

LWW

Gayle in MD
02-20-2008, 01:45 PM
Yes, there are some who think that, and many many of those very wealthy have spoken out about it themselves. The tax structure allows the rich to defer their fair share of taxes. A dollar today, is worth more than a dollar thirty years from now.

It's hard to believe that there are so many people who don't realize that the rich do no pay their fair share of taxes. There are many ways which allow them to defer their overall wealth, forever. Do you think Warren Buffet was kidding when he offered amy millionaire a million if he could prove that he paid more taxes than his secretary?

Gayle in Md.

Deeman3
02-20-2008, 02:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Yes, there are some who think that, and many many of those very wealthy have spoken out about it themselves. The tax structure allows the rich to defer their fair share of taxes. A dollar today, is worth more than a dollar thirty years from now.

<font color="blue"> I agree, but of course, it's always that way for the rich (I'm not in the very rich) but what is fair in redistribution beyond what it is today? </font color>

It's hard to believe that there are so many people who don't realize that the rich do no pay their fair share of taxes. <font color="blue"> How do you define fair? </font color> There are many ways which allow them to defer their overall wealth, forever. Do you think Warren Buffet was kidding when he offered amy millionaire a million if he could prove that he paid more taxes than his secretary?

<font color="blue"> Why would Buffet not then pay his normal rate of taxes or donate the extra to the treasury instead of trying to mandate everyone do so? I don't believe the Revenue Departments mind extra help.

If I am now paying over 50% of my income in total taxes, who says it is needed for me to pay more? Would 90% enough? Again, why do those who now give the least of their disposal income want more form the already more generous?

When does this end? At total socialism? </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

bamadog
02-20-2008, 02:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Yes, there are some who think that, and many many of those very wealthy have spoken out about it themselves. The tax structure allows the rich to defer their fair share of taxes. A dollar today, is worth more than a dollar thirty years from now.

It's hard to believe that there are so many people who don't realize that the rich do no pay their fair share of taxes. There are many ways which allow them to defer their overall wealth, forever. Do you think Warren Buffet was kidding when he offered amy millionaire a million if he could prove that he paid more taxes than his secretary?

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

And as usual you are telling a big whopping lie.
Buffet was talking about his tax "rate" which was 17.7%. That is the rate on capital gains. On his income of $46 million he paid over $8 million in taxes!
Why can't you get the story right Gayle?

Here's the article:

Billionaire Buffett still complaining his taxes are too low
David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Published: Tuesday October 30, 2007

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Multi-billionaire Warren Buffett has been complaining for years that his taxes are too low. Last June, he said at a fundraiser for Hillary Clinton that he was taxed at only 17.7% last year on his $46 million in income, while his secretary paid 30% of her $60,000.

NBC's Tom Brokaw recently interviewed Buffett, "whose approach doesn't make him very popular with his fellow billionaires."

"The taxation system has tilted toward the rich and away from the middle class in the last 10 years," Buffett, the nation's third richest man, told Brokaw. Buffett said he did an informal survey of federal taxes paid by his own office staff, and the average was 32.9%, compared to his 17.7%.

"There wasn't anybody in the office, from the receptionists on, that paid as low a tax rate," Buffett stated, noting that "I have no tax planning, I don't have an accountant, I don't have tax shelters."

"It's not right," one of Buffett's receptionist's told Brokaw.

bamadog
02-20-2008, 03:07 PM
Here's another perspective on the Buffett issue:

Billionaire Warren Buffett -- a Case of the Guilts?
By Larry Elder
Whatever happened to Warren Buffett, the world's third-richest man? Guilt, a feeling of being blessed by luck, forgotten lessons -- who knows? In any case, Buffett now believes that government should redistribute the wealth earned by others to those who did not earn it.

"Buffett Blasts System That Lets Him Pay Less Tax Than Secretary" blared a recent headline. Huh?

At a Hillary Rodham Clinton fundraiser speech before 400 movers and shakers, Buffett denounced our tax system. According to Buffett, he pays taxes at a lower tax rate than does his $60,000-a-year secretary, 17.7 percent and 30 percent, respectively. But Buffett has long been sympathetic toward big government. Buffett joined the informal "advisory board" of then California gubernatorial candidate Arnold Schwarzenegger, who became governor because his predecessor tripled the car tax. Incredibly, Buffett promptly urged an increase in California property taxes. Buffett also opposes repeal of the estate tax, considering it unfair for generation after generation to retain wealth, presumably preventing those in the lower classes (where he came from) from rising up.


But let's examine the assertion that Buffett pays a higher tax rate than does his secretary.

Buffett says he earned $46 million in 2006, with a tax rate of 17.7 percent -- all, says Buffet, without attempting to avoid paying higher taxes. But his income clearly places him in the highest federal income tax bracket -- 35 percent -- but the same "non-avoidance" tax rules allow ample deductions and credits. Surely a man like Buffet can claim buckets-full, to say nothing of possible business losses and capital gains inherent in his line of work. So he probably reached the 17.7 percent rate without any monkey business. Fair enough. Whip out your calculator. First, Buffett, on his $46 million a year, paid -- at his 17.7 percent rate -- over $8 million in taxes.

Now let's deal with his secretary, whom he claims pays his or her taxes at a 30 percent rate. Buffett, in his speech, provided no details about the secretary. But even with minimal deductions, the highest possible federal tax bracket for a single person earning $60,000 a year is 25 percent. We don't know whether Buffett's secretary is married, a homeowner or renter, or has children.

Let's suppose Buffett's secretary is a single person, a renter, no kids, and makes no IRA contribution (or any other gross income adjustments) and claims the standard deductions. This scenario places the secretary in the highest possible income tax bracket. But after the standard deduction ($5,150) and one personal exemption ($3,300), the secretary's taxable income becomes $51,550 -- the 25 percent tax bracket. This means the secretary pays $9,439 in taxes -- or 15.7 percent of the $60,000 annual income. Assuming the secretary lives in Nebraska (where Buffett is headquartered), with its highest income tax bracket at 6.84 percent, the secretary pays $2,663 to the state, or another 4.4 percent of the $60,000. Altogether, this gives the secretary a total tax rate of 20.1 percent.

Throw in one kid under 17 years of age, and a $4,000 contribution to an IRA, and this single parent secretary -- still renting and claiming the standard deduction -- now has a taxable income of $41,850. With one child tax credit, secretary pays $4,814 in federal income taxes, just 8 percent of the $60,000-per-year income. Single-parent secretary also pays $2,076 in income taxes to Nebraska, for a total of 11.5 percent of the $60,000 per year annual income.

Now suppose we're talking about a married secretary, with a stay-at-home spouse. They file jointly, pay a home mortgage and have two kids under the age of 17. They place $4,000 in an IRA and itemize $15,000 in deductions. Here the tax picture changes dramatically. Taxable income drops to $27,800 -- the 15 percent tax bracket. With child tax credits, secretary now pays $1,419 in federal taxes, or 2.4 percent of $60,000. Add in another 2 percent for $1,218 in state taxes, and secretary pays a grand total, state and federal, of 4.4 percent on the $60,000-a-year salary.

An online search of Buffett's comments found not a single news story (as opposed to an editorial) questioning his assertion that he pays a higher tax rate than does his secretary.

During his speech, Buffett also explained why he became a Democrat. Republicans, he says, think, "I'm making $80 million a year. God must have intended me to have a lower tax rate." Interesting. Does Buffett know that Republicans donate more money to charity than do Democrats? In his book "Who Really Cares," author Arthur Brooks explains why. Republicans believe in limited government, and therefore feel the responsibility to help the needy falls on their shoulders. Additionally, the Republican Party contains more religious people than the Democratic Party, and the religious give more than their non-religious counterparts.

Maybe God wants lower income tax brackets in order to provide more disposable income. That way people can -- as Buffett does -- give more to the needy.

eg8r
02-20-2008, 03:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, there are some who think that, and many many of those very wealthy have spoken out about it themselves. <hr /></blockquote> Yet YOU don't speak out against them for exercising those exploitations and forcing your fantasy burden on the middle class.

[ QUOTE ]
It's hard to believe that there are so many people who don't realize that the rich do no pay their fair share of taxes. <hr /></blockquote> You are throwing up a strawman now. No one is talking about "fair" amounts because that is speculative depending on how much you covet. The discussion is about the facts and the actual dollar amounts. The percentages of who pays what has been posted on this thread already.

eg8r

bamadog
02-21-2008, 11:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>

Do you think Warren Buffet was kidding when he offered amy millionaire a million if he could prove that he paid more taxes than his secretary?

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Well Gayle, are you ready to admit that you've been repeating a lie? Or are you just going to run away and stick your head in the sand?

Deeman3
02-21-2008, 11:47 AM
Father/Daughter Talk
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; A young woman was about to finish her first year of
&gt;&gt;&gt; college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a
&gt;&gt;&gt; very
&gt;&gt;&gt; liberal Democrat, and was very much in favor of 'the redistribution of
&gt;&gt;&gt; wealth.'
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch
&gt;&gt;&gt; Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that
&gt;&gt;&gt; she
&gt;&gt;&gt; had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt
&gt;&gt;&gt; that
&gt;&gt;&gt; her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what
&gt;&gt;&gt; he!
&gt;&gt;&gt; ; thought should be his.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to
&gt;&gt;&gt; higher taxes on the rich and the addition of mor! e government welfare
&gt;&gt;&gt; programs. The self-professed objectivity pro claimed by her professors
&gt;&gt;&gt; had
&gt;&gt;&gt; to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by
&gt;&gt;&gt; asking
&gt;&gt;&gt; how she was doing in school.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a
&gt;&gt;&gt; 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that
&gt;&gt;&gt; she
&gt;&gt;&gt; was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying,
&gt;&gt;&gt; which
&gt;&gt;&gt; left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She
&gt;&gt;&gt; didn't
&gt;&gt;&gt; even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college
&gt;&gt;&gt; friends
&gt;&gt;&gt; because she spent all her time studying.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Her father listened and then asked, 'How is your friend
&gt;&gt;&gt; Audrey doing?'
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; She replied, 'Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes
&gt;&gt;&gt; are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She
&gt;&gt;&gt; is so
&gt;&gt;&gt; popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to
&gt;&gt;&gt; all
&gt;&gt;&gt; the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes
&gt;&gt;&gt; because
&gt;&gt;&gt; she's too! hung over.'
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Her wise father asked his daughter, 'Why don't you go to
&gt;&gt;&gt; the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it
&gt;&gt;&gt; to
&gt;&gt;&gt; your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA
&gt;&gt;&gt; and
&gt;&gt;&gt; certainly that
&gt;&gt;&gt; would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.'
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion,
&gt;&gt;&gt; angrily fired back, 'That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard
&gt;&gt;&gt; for my
&gt;&gt;&gt; grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has
&gt;&gt;&gt; done
&gt;&gt;&gt; next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail
&gt;&gt;&gt; off!'
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently,'Welcome to
&gt;&gt;&gt; the Republican party.'
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

pooltchr
02-21-2008, 04:35 PM
Deeman!
That was priceless!!!!!!!
Steve