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View Full Version : Stroke analysis Video of Reyes (anyone seen it?)



BigRigTom
03-04-2008, 11:29 AM
I was working on being able to embed videos into a post on my forum and I stumbled accross this one video on YouTube of Efren Reyes' stroke. Reyes has a terrible stroke according to everything I have read and studied and yet he is one of the BEST pool players in the world.

Efren Reyes demonstrates his stroke then listens to a critique from someone? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6sKPP9nuis)

If you watch it to the end you want to catch the expression Reyes is giving this guy.

1Time
03-04-2008, 11:58 AM
I couldn't make out exactly what the interviewer was saying, but to me Efren's reaction meant, "No matter - I could not care less what you think of my stroke; the results speak for me".

I saw nothing technically wrong with his stroke in that video, except for some upper arm movement, but certainly nothing meriting correction.

None of the peculiarities of his or anyone else's stroke matters IF you're satisfied with the results. And Efren is my favorite pool player to reference that proves this point. Jim Furyk's golf stroke is a prime example of this as well. You don't need a text book or technically perfect stroke to play exceedingly well. It does not have to be a certain way; it's whatever works best for you.

1Time
03-04-2008, 12:01 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigRigTom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reyes has a terrible stroke according to everything I have read and studied and yet he is one of the BEST pool players in the world.</div></div>
And so, you've been reading the wrong books.

BigRigTom
03-04-2008, 12:07 PM
I think that Reyes is probably thinking: (he's probably thinking in the language of the Phillipines too, what ever that is...)
<span style="color: #FF6666">"Dude! I am the world greatest pool player and you are going to tell me that my stroke if not right? Think about that! Why don't we play some pool and I'll take any bet you are ready to make with your "perfect stroke" against my "not so perfect stroke" and we'll see who wins!" </span>

BigRigTom
03-04-2008, 12:12 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigRigTom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reyes has a terrible stroke according to everything I have read and studied and yet he is one of the BEST pool players in the world.</div></div>
And so, you've been reading the wrong books. </div></div>

Yep, maybe.
But Life is still great!

pooltchr
03-04-2008, 12:41 PM
Tom,
What you read in books and on this forum, and what you hear from most instructors is directed at the great majority of players. Reyes is NOT the great majority of players.

The ultimate goal of a good pool stroke is quite simply to be able to move the cue stick forward in a straight line. The things we teach are designed to help players accomplish this goal. Watch the video closely again. Don't watch anything except the cue stick. Look at what it is doing when it contacts the cue ball. I think he has accomplished the stated goal.

Steve

BigRigTom
03-04-2008, 01:10 PM
Yep Steve,
I agree he has accomplished his goal and then some.
I agree he is NOT the typical pool player.
I agree with pretty much everything you guys teach as well.

I just thought it was pretty interesting how that little video says it all....if Reyes can be as great as he is with a stroke like that....there is hope for us all.

Bob_Jewett
03-04-2008, 01:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ... I saw nothing technically wrong with his stroke in that video, except for some upper arm movement, but certainly nothing meriting correction. ... </div></div>
One feature in his stroke that is very unusual is that his elbow moves away from his body on the final stroke. I don't recall having ever seen this before in stroke analysis videos.

BigRigTom
03-04-2008, 01:35 PM
You might also notice that the cue comes completely out of the bridge on that one stroke near the end of the clip. He is using and open bridge and the cue rides up onto the knuckle and he then wraps his index finger up and over the cue into a closed bridge all in one smooth move. WOW! If I did that I would probably not even hit the cue ball and at very best I would definitely mis-cue.

pooltchr
03-04-2008, 02:08 PM
Yeah, but that all happens after he has already made contact with the cue ball. The cue is moving straight into the cue ball, then takes off for who knows where. Not anything I would try to teach anyone, but I'm not going to tell him he's wrong!
Steve

av84fun
03-04-2008, 11:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigRigTom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reyes has a terrible stroke according to everything I have read and studied and yet he is one of the BEST pool players in the world.</div></div>
And so, you've been reading the wrong books. </div></div>

Not really. While it is true that a FEW great champions have very unorthodox mechanics, they have almost super-human muscle memory skills (gifts) and can "get away" with what they are doing.

Examples include Hopkins non-back stroke back stroke, McCready's side arm stroke...Busta's LOOPY stroke etc.

But the books describe the way the vast majority of top champions approach their mechanics and on balance, they are EXTREMELY similar.

The "orthodox" mechanics are in such widespread use because they have been proven over long period of time to lead to a repeatable stroke.

Having said that, if anyone's unorthodox methods are WORKING then they should let no human being change their minds.

But people don't buy instructional books or take lessons because they are playing at a championship level.

Remember, there is only ONE PERSON ON EARTH who swings a golf club like Furyck or strokes like McCready...and not many who stroke like Busta and Efren....IN THE WORLD!

Regards,
Jim

Fran Crimi
03-05-2008, 07:40 AM
I think people should be really cautious about trying to analyze or categorize somebody's stroke by watching them shoot the same shot several times in a row. If you really want to learn something about a person's stroke, then you have to watch how they handle a multitude of different types of shots.

When you study the complete Efren, then you may see him do things that make you say, "Wow, I don't have the stroke for that" or, "How did he make the cue ball move like that with so little effort?"


Those are the things that define someone's stoke, not shooting the same straight-in shot 10 times in a row.

Fran

BigRigTom
03-05-2008, 10:20 AM
All very good points Fran. Thanks for your insight. I once again agree with all you are saying.

As I pursue the good repeatable stroke for my own game I am starting to realize that a good repeatable stroke is kind of like "the average or normal person".

While it can be defined and described with details it is an elusive butterfly when you actually try to isolate it. Because of all the details involved there are almost always discrepancies in the individual's stroke that force it outside the parameters of the average or norm. That usually puts everyone's stroke somewhere outside the norm or average except that singular center of the scale that we refer to as the average or norm.

The search continues.......

dr_dave
03-05-2008, 10:30 AM
Efren is not a typical example. His stroke ain't broke, so there is no reason to fix anything. He delivers the cue as straight to the cue ball with the desired tip contact point as well (or better than) anybody in the world.

Now, this can't be said for most people. Most people have something broke. That's when instruction, filming, and comparison to stroke "best practices" (http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/stroke_best_practices.pdf) (e.g., using a fundamentals checksheet (http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/best_practices_check_list.pdf)) can help identify and correct "flaws" that might be contributing to the brokenness.

Regards,
Dave

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigRigTom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was working on being able to embed videos into a post on my forum and I stumbled accross this one video on YouTube of Efren Reyes' stroke. Reyes has a terrible stroke according to everything I have read and studied and yet he is one of the BEST pool players in the world.

Efren Reyes demonstrates his stroke then listens to a critique from someone? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6sKPP9nuis)

If you watch it to the end you want to catch the expression Reyes is giving this guy. </div></div>broke