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SKennedy
03-13-2008, 02:10 PM
Ok folks, there is much I don't know about tips. I just took my shaft in for a new tip and the guy looked at it and told me it was a LePro. Until then, I wasn't sure what type of tip was on the shaft. I've been using the shaft withe same tip for about 1 1/2 years. I also did not know how hard it was, but suspected a medium-hard tip. This guy (proprieter of the billiard shop) tells me that the LePro is a hard tip. He suggested a Triangle, which is medium. He said that both of these tips, as well as Elkmaster?, which is a soft tip, are all made by the same folks. In his opinion, Moori is overrated and said that most people who insist on a Moori don't know how to properly care for one anyway. I asked him to order me one anyway,but for the time being he is putting me a Triangle on the shaft.
Anyway, I was surprised to learn I was using a hard tip as I thought it was a little softer. When I have tried softer tips, such as Moori mediums (and always on someone else's stick), I don't seem to get any more spin on the ball than when using the harder tip. His only suggestion was that with the Triangle tip I need to make sure I keep it "hairy"...his way of saying scuffed up.
My question is this....How important is tip hardness for applying english? After my match Tuesday in which my tip became useless, I played a very skilled player using my phenolic tipped break/jump stick. I was applying just about as much spin on the cue ball with it as I normally do....even draw...although I was more careful about not miscueing. Maybe tip hardness is not as important as I thought it was? Maybe I'm not keeping my tip surface as scuffed as I should be? Regardless, I seem to be able to apply as much spin on the ball as I need to. Would like some thoughts from some of you more skilled and knowledgeable players on the subject. Once I get the triangle (medium) on the shaft, I'll be anxious to try it out and see if I notice any difference.

dr_dave
03-13-2008, 02:34 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SKennedy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok folks, there is much I don't know about tips. I just took my shaft in for a new tip and the guy looked at it and told me it was a LePro. Until then, I wasn't sure what type of tip was on the shaft. I've been using the shaft withe same tip for about 1 1/2 years. I also did not know how hard it was, but suspected a medium-hard tip. This guy (proprieter of the billiard shop) tells me that the LePro is a hard tip. He suggested a Triangle, which is medium. He said that both of these tips, as well as Elkmaster?, which is a soft tip, are all made by the same folks. In his opinion, Moori is overrated and said that most people who insist on a Moori don't know how to properly care for one anyway. I asked him to order me one anyway,but for the time being he is putting me a Triangle on the shaft.
Anyway, I was surprised to learn I was using a hard tip as I thought it was a little softer. When I have tried softer tips, such as Moori mediums (and always on someone else's stick), I don't seem to get any more spin on the ball than when using the harder tip. His only suggestion was that with the Triangle tip I need to make sure I keep it "hairy"...his way of saying scuffed up.
My question is this....How important is tip hardness for applying english? After my match Tuesday in which my tip became useless, I played a very skilled player using my phenolic tipped break/jump stick. I was applying just about as much spin on the cue ball with it as I normally do....even draw...although I was more careful about not miscueing. Maybe tip hardness is not as important as I thought it was? Maybe I'm not keeping my tip surface as scuffed as I should be? Regardless, I seem to be able to apply as much spin on the ball as I need to. Would like some thoughts from some of you more skilled and knowledgeable players on the subject. Once I get the triangle (medium) on the shaft, I'll be anxious to try it out and see if I notice any difference.</div></div>Here are some relevant factors:
- a hard tip holds its shape better over time
- tip hardness should not have a significant or direct effect on the amount of English that can be applied.
- the amount of English is limited by the tip offset that creates a miscue.
- a tip not "treated" (e.g., scuffed) properly, will not hold chalk very well, and miscues will be more likely at smaller tip offsets.
- soft tips seem to hold chalk better than hard tips, in general.

For more info, see Bob's answer here (http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue_tip.html#hardness).

Regards,
Dave

SKennedy
03-13-2008, 02:48 PM
Thanks Dr. Dave. Guess my last tip lasted so long because it was so hard (can't believe I can say that at my age). So, the only real benefit to a softer tip is the amount of chalk it can hold. Maybe I should stay with a hard LePro tip? I'll keep try the medium and go back to a harder tip if it doesn't seem to make much difference.

Jazz
03-13-2008, 03:06 PM
In my experience, I find Triangle to be harder tip than Le Pro. Triangle is my choice for single layer tip. For me, it provide good feedback and spins the way I want.

I also like Moori medium which is fairly hard tip as well.

But if price was my first choice criteria, I'd choose Triangle - for me.

Billy_Bob
03-14-2008, 06:38 AM
I feel it is important for consistency to always use the same brand tip, same hardness tip, and same tip shape (nickel/dime).

It is when players start changing things on their cue that trouble starts!

So find a tip you like, then write down the specs and get the same thing next time...

wolfdancer
03-14-2008, 12:16 PM
Not replying here with any expertise, just my own observations from
owning a lathe and doing cue repairs for a couple of years..(it's more a labor of love then a cash cow).
Tweeten does make LePros and Triangles, but cures the leather differently for each. I didn't think of LePros as a hard tip....and
their hardness varies ...out of a box of 50, you can toss 10, due to excessive mushrooming (too soft)....Guido, a respected cue repair guy that you'll see at many tournaments.....presses his in a vise, also grades them (for an extra buck or two) with a hardness tester. Predators come with a LePro, but everyone in the room switched to a Triangle, or a layered tip.
Mooris aren't over rated, but maybe over priced???
I tried Talismans, good tip that you have to be careful about shaping or it will delaminate...at least back then.
Right now my tip of choice is an Everest....but I'm presently stuck with a Sniper on my shaft...and gas prices being what they are...
Elkmasters, I believe are soft, and might give you "more" action.
I had a box of 50, and never got a cal for one.
They did a study on hardness in the U.K., not sure if it was pool related though.....but you did get more action with a firmer tip.

Deeman3
03-14-2008, 01:30 PM
I have only used two type tips in 35-38 years, I still have the box of water buff I bought back then, a few left. I switched to Sniper about a year ago and will use them for the next 35 years. Wait, I guess I won't last that long. The one exception was tip Ace put on for me at Derby City last year and I don't rememebr the brand but it played perfectly well until I replaced it for consistency purposes only.

As far as I can tell, the Snipers last as long as the WB's.

wolfdancer
03-14-2008, 01:54 PM
I also tried water Buffalo's...but they didn't match up with my non-stroke. Even bought some Sumo's ....great for hammering brads/tacks/small nails, but I was afraid they would chip the cue ball. As my Sniper wears down, we're developing more of a friendly relationship....last night, with only minimal pleading from me,("go in, please, go in") it performed well. It's tough playing when you know that your cue and tip, are better'n you are.

Ace
03-14-2008, 03:32 PM
Deeman, The tip I put on your shaft was a LePro out of a box I bought almost 20 years ago. The older LePro tips were harder and more consistant through out the box, unlike the new LePro tips. I like the hit of Morri Quick (Hard) tips personally.