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mbippus
03-22-2008, 10:26 AM
I just joined an apa team. I am probably a c player. We play a match of 9 and 8 each week. THe first week I player I was a 4. I killed a 2 in 9ball and I got moved up to a six the next week.

Upon learning this my team informed my that I needed to lose and continue to lose in 9ball until I was get rated a 4. I know sandbagging is probably cheating, and I am definatly not looking forward to losing. I didn't sign up to lose.

THey are wanting me to go to vegas with them in 9ball, and they say I need to be a 4 to "help" the team and stand a chance to win in vegas.

I ended up dumping to a two in nine ball. I know its cheating and am not looking to get ripped apart in this thread. I am just looking for some advice. SHould I quit the team, play to win and probably not be invited to vegas, or continue to dump until I am back down to a 4? I don't really see any more options.

THe one thing I know is that playing to lose is not fun at all. I posted a 6 inning game against that two, and I was probably ashamed about it. I can't see continuing like this. I am uber competetive and I have never been in this situation in my life.
Thanks,


Matt

Bambu
03-22-2008, 11:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mbippus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just joined an apa team. I am probably a c player. We play a match of 9 and 8 each week. THe first week I player I was a 4. I killed a 2 in 9ball and I got moved up to a six the next week.

Upon learning this my team informed my that I needed to lose and continue to lose in 9ball until I was get rated a 4. I know sandbagging is probably cheating, and I am definatly not looking forward to losing. I didn't sign up to lose.


THey are wanting me to go to vegas with them in 9ball, and they say I need to be a 4 to "help" the team and stand a chance to win in vegas.

I ended up dumping to a two in nine ball. I know its cheating and am not looking to get ripped apart in this thread. I am just looking for some advice. SHould I quit the team, play to win and probably not be invited to vegas, or continue to dump until I am back down to a 4? I don't really see any more options.

THe one thing I know is that playing to lose is not fun at all. I posted a 6 inning game against that two, and I was probably ashamed about it. I can't see continuing like this. I am uber competetive and I have never been in this situation in my life.
Thanks,


Matt</div></div>

If I were you, I would find a team that happens to need a player of your true skill level. Every team has holes to fill, so its a matter of finding the right fit.

BigRigTom
03-22-2008, 11:47 AM
I agree with Bambu, find a team that wants you to play your best.

Anyone who ask you to throw games and matches is not a friend.
Would you loan those guys money? If not why would you want to play pool with them.

Get on another team and look forward to beating those guys.

When and if you do get to Vegas it will be a sweeter trip.

Fran Crimi
03-22-2008, 02:49 PM
If everybody in a league played their hardest every week and didn't sandbag, there wouldn't be a need to sandbag. But as soon as one person sandbags, that ruins the whole league and then it becomes an unfortunate situation where you have to sandbag if you want to beat the other sandbaggers.

I have yet to come across any handicapped league where there wasn't a sandbagger. What to do? Find a team that doesn't sandbag and enjoy shooting your heart out every week. Keep in the back of your mind that you'll probably lose sometimes to people who are rated under you, but don't take it personally ---- they could be sandbaggers!

You may find that you're not on the winning team if they don't sandbag, but who cares? It's great practice and a nice social situation and a lot of fun as long as you don't worry about the money.

And you can hold your head up in the end and say that you didn't cheat.

Fran

mbippus
03-22-2008, 05:17 PM
All good points. I guess there is kind of a carrot in front of my nose as this team qualified for Vegas last session an are wanting to me to fill the extra spot on their roster.

I think that you all are right, if they don't want me at my full speed because my rating is too high its their loss! We'll see how that goes over next week.

Billy_Bob
03-23-2008, 09:05 AM
Well just explain to them that you don't have it in you to intentionally lose games - that you have tried, but just can't do it. They will understand. They may want to find another player though.

FYI - Say there was an area that had all "pro level" players in the league. Well the ratings are based on wins and losses. Some of the pros would win most of their games, others would lose most of their games. So you would have "pro level" players rated as 2's, 4's, 6's, etc. in this league!

And say in another area you had all beginner players in the league. Again they would be rated 2's, 4's, 6's, etc. based on their wins and losses.

So now you go to regionals and a 6 from the beginner players league plays a 2 from the pro level players league. The 2 leaves the 6 in the dust! It is no contest!

So that is how it works at regionals and at nationals. Some areas have a high concentration of very good players, so you get very good players with a lower rating. Then other areas have a high concentration of not-so-good players and the highest rated players from that area might have trouble competing with lower ranked players from the very good player areas.

And teams see this at regionals. I saw a 2 rated player have several 7 ball runs at regionals! Now in my area, that player would have been rated a 6.

So while the player rating system works pretty good at a local level, there can be a big difference between various areas. For example the east coast has a high concentration of very good players - more so than the west coast.

dg-in-centralpa
03-23-2008, 09:06 AM
Another option is to look for a non handicap league. I play in a non and a handicap league. The non is nice because every game counts not like the handicap where if the round is won, the last player will purposely lose to stay at a lower level.

DG

Scott Lee
03-23-2008, 08:48 PM
mbippus...This is not the team for you. Anytime a team captain wants his players to lose on purpose, they are playing for the wrong reason. "Handicap manipulation" is still cheating, any way you look at it. Do you really want to play on a team that feels cheating is the way to win (even if the reason is 'to get to Vegas', or 'because everyone else does it')? See you in 6 weeks!

Scott Lee

Billy_Bob
03-24-2008, 07:32 AM
I was thinking about this last night. What I was thinking is that now that you have posted this on the internet, I think it would be inviting trouble for you to continue playing on that team. That is if there is anyway you can be identified as to what team you are on. No matter if you no longer lose intentionally or not.

The situation would be if your team went to regionals or nationals and won. Then someone from a team which lost to your team learned about this post on the internet. Well there could be a big ruckus...

Cydpkt
03-24-2008, 09:36 AM
If you go to Vegas as a 4 and suddenly shoot like a 7 there is a chance your whole team gets disqualified. What is the use to sandbag to get to Vegas only to be disqualified? Why are you paying $5 plus quarters to go out and loose every week. I agree with finding a different team, play for the regional singles qualifier and get your trip to Vegas on your own merit. I once had a team captain tell me to win but to have more innings. He I go out to win by destroying my opponent. If I do that with run outs and safeties it doesn't matter. I want beat them so bad that the next time we play they don't even try. I played a guy last week and we shook hands before the lag and he said that "good luck, we already know how its going to end."

SKennedy
03-24-2008, 10:19 AM
I agree with all others on here about finding a different team. I'm just not sure how one goes from being a 4 the first week, beating a 2, and them moving up to a 6?

If our team needs a level 3 or 4 player, that's who we recruit. But, we know that person's real skill level. Granted that person should improve with time, but not overnight! If your team is that intent on getting to Vegas by any means necessary, I doubt you will ever enjoy being on that team.....and I doubt they get to Vegas.....

mbippus
03-24-2008, 10:28 PM
I was a 4 becuase it was my first time playing in the league and I guess that is where they start you at.

SKennedy
03-25-2008, 08:20 AM
I understand about starting out as a 4, as all men do. However, I've never heard of someone that is a 4 moving up 2 levels by beating a skill level 2. If you break and ran every game then I could see maybe how that could happen. But, I guess it really doesn't matter that much where your skill level is at when you first start. After about 10 matches or so, your skill level should match your actual skill.

jennycorvette
07-09-2008, 03:08 AM
Personally I'd lose the team too but not until after Vegas. I mean, come on, it's Vegas, right? Don't think of it as losing. Think of it as finding the most challenging way to win.

MAC
07-09-2008, 12:17 PM
I can understand where your team captain is coming from to an extent. I am undergoing a similar problem myself and I dont really know how to handle my situation either. My problem is not necessarily a terrible problem. Everyone on my team is improving very quickly right now I have a 6,two 5s,three 4s,and a 3. My biggest dillemma is two of my threes will be 5s if they continue to play like they have these first 5 weeks of the summer session, and one of my 5s will probably be a 6 !
The big question is to sandbag or not to sandbag? I and nobody else on my squad likes losing as most people dont, so I doubt we can sandbag too successfully. I understand the equalizer system makes it fair for all skill levels of players, but it kinda sucks when your trying to have a good time with your friends and your worrying about having to many good players. Let me know how it turns out for you and your team, maybe it will help us out knowing how someone else handled a similar situation.

bluey2king
07-11-2008, 11:11 AM
Maybe APA is not the right fit for you. Try BCA or Tap!
Always play to win...otherwise what is the point of Competition.
a $5.00 trophy. My pride is worth more than that!!

KellyStick
07-11-2008, 11:29 AM
This is a no brainer. Leave this team and find another and don't look back. I play APA one night a week and I'll be damned if I'm gonna throw my match just to go to that gambling spectacle they call Vegas for a team that cheats. Vegas is once per year. APA is once a week. Which one is more important? Not to mention your honor and all that.

Play for fun. Play to win and don't compromise with cheaters that work to ruin the whole experience for everyone. I just can't understand some of these hardcore sandbaggers. Many of them play almost every night. They sandbag so much that I just don't get how you could spend so much time and effort to lose on purpose. Some of them don't even disguise it much especially when they are playing a lesser player. I find it truly disgusting when I am playing one of these losers in my one night a week match. It wastes my time and kills the whole point of competitive play. In that sense it is incredibly disrespectful and rude to your opponent. Think about that. I dispise playing against someone who is intentionally throwing the game and have at times told them so. They invariably get mad but then want to get even with you for your comments next time and then you can have a game. ;o)