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New2Pool
03-24-2008, 03:24 PM
According to WPA rules for eight ball, does a "lucked in" shot count if it goes in the called pocket? I hit a shot last night that rimmed out of the corner pocket I called but another ball I had hit after the target ball came off a rail and knocked the called ball into the called pocket, but it was not at all how I had intended the shot to go. I thought the shot should count because the rules (pasted below) state that "details of the shot are irrelevant". However, my opponent pointed out that the rules also state that "For a called shot to count, the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made,..."

It was a friend I was playing with and we were just playing for who has to buy lunch this week. I told him I would ask here and report back on who pays.

1.6 Standard Call Shot (http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_tournament#1.6)
In games in which the shooter is required to call shots, the intended ball and pocket must be indicated for each shot if they are not obvious. Details of the shot, such as cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant. Only one ball may be called on each shot.

For a called shot to count, the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made, so if there is any chance of confusion, e.g. with bank, combination and similar shots, the shooter should indicate the ball and pocket. If the referee or opponent is unsure of the shot to be played, he may ask for a call.

1Time
03-24-2008, 03:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: New2Pool</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to WPA rules for eight ball, does a "lucked in" shot count if it goes in the called pocket? I hit a shot last night that rimmed out of the corner pocket I called but another ball I had hit after the target ball came off a rail and knocked the called ball into the called pocket, but it was not at all how I had intended the shot to go. I thought the shot should count because the rules (pasted below) state that "details of the shot are irrelevant". However, my opponent pointed out that the rules also state that "For a called shot to count, the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made,..."

It was a friend I was playing with and we were just playing for who has to buy lunch this week. I told him I would ask here and report back on who pays.

1.6 Standard Call Shot (http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_tournament#1.6)
In games in which the shooter is required to call shots, the intended ball and pocket must be indicated for each shot if they are not obvious. Details of the shot, such as cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant. Only one ball may be called on each shot.

For a called shot to count, the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made, so if there is any chance of confusion, e.g. with bank, combination and similar shots, the shooter should indicate the ball and pocket. If the referee or opponent is unsure of the shot to be played, he may ask for a call. </div></div>
If you agreed to "call pocket rules" before competing, then a shot without a foul that pockets the ball in the called pocket is good. And so you won the game. If you agreed to some other set of rules up front, then those rules would apply. If you failed to agree to rules up front that adequately address this type of shot, then you both are equally at fault. In this case the two of you cannot determine a winner and should discuss an alternative resolution, like a rematch, flip of the coin, both of you pay for your own lunches, or whatever.

New2Pool
03-24-2008, 03:49 PM
Thanks, we had agreed to WPA rules before we started. Who pays for the lunch will not be a problem. We like to have a small wager on the games but we are playing more for bragging rights than anything else.

Scott Lee
03-25-2008, 12:50 AM
If the 'called ball' goes into the 'called pocket', it doesn't matter how it gets there...it is a legal shot...and counts. Go enjoy your free lunch!

Bob_Jewett
03-25-2008, 09:08 AM
So your question is whether a typical referee, seeing you shoot a fairly obvious shot that you happen to miss, and then seeing another ball fly around the table and knock the intended ball into the intended pocket would be satisfied that you made the intended ball in the intended pocket. I think most would give you the shot. There are very few "direct" shots that aren't obvious from the layout on the table. That is, the first ball the cue ball strikes has only one practical pocket to go directly into if the player hits the ball on the side he is lined up for. In a few cases, it's hard to say from a long distance whether the player is going for the side or a far corner, but usually there is no question about what is being tried. This does require some experience on the part of the referee, but not much.

av84fun
04-01-2008, 11:54 PM
In the absence of agreeing to a specific rule set up front, I believe the players would be obligated to resolve disputes under recognized and published rule sets such as the WSRs and the quite similar BCA rules.

They may exist but I am not aware of any internationally recognized rule sets that require anything to be called but ball and pocket.

If any player wishes to rely on non-published or obscure "house rules" or local custom, I think it is up to that player to discuss such rules in advance. Anything else would be essentially making the rules up as you go.

Regards,
Jim

Treehumper
04-02-2008, 08:21 AM
You agreed to the WPA rules, ball and pocket called. Despite your miss, the POOL GODS rewarded you. Thank them when lunch is served...

New2Pool
04-02-2008, 08:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Treehumper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You agreed to the WPA rules, ball and pocket called. Despite your miss, the POOL GODS rewarded you. Thank them when lunch is served... </div></div>

Well, I have always heard that I would rather be lucky than good but at this stage of my pool playing proficiency I would rather be good, but I will gladly take the luck.

JJFSTAR
04-02-2008, 03:44 PM
New2 pool I think your question is; "what about that second paragraph in the rules that says the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made" I think this is in there because not all "called" shots are a verbal calls even in the pro world sometimes is just a point the stick at the pocket and that is a call and does not have to be verbal because lots of people canít say 9 ball corner right in English. This has happened to me a hundred times I hit it so badly that it didnít even look like I was going for the obvious pocket but it went in there and that was my shot and I was questioned on it. I think this is what has happened here. Itís good that he is your friend and will understand when you ask him "well what would you have gone for?" and he will answer "the pocket it went in " and when you explain that you made a really bad shot that happened to go your lunch that he buys will be enjoyed by you both very much.