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LWW
04-03-2008, 12:13 PM
Two years ago I was fortuneate enough to watch 2 young pitching prospects in Dayton at length, Dayton being the home of the Cinci Redlegs A level team.

The rage in the media was over their #1 draft pick named Homer Bailey. Although I think Homer will be a big leauger for a long time, he has been called up twice to go 4-2 and is now in Louisville (AAA).

The kid who caught my eye however was a 19 yr old named Johnny Cueto (Pronounced Quay-toe.) who was a raw talent that I predicted then would be better faster than Homer ... largely because their skills are quite similer but Cueto was a sponge with the coaches while Homer's issue is that he thinks he knows everything.

In spring training I kept hearing from the scouts and broadcasters that Cueto was THE best pitcher on the staff already ... quite a statement considering the current ace Aaron Harang has went 16-11 and 16-6 the last 2 years with a good ERA.

Well, today is his MLB debut in game 3 at GABP.

Thru 4 innings. 0 runs. O hits. 7 strikeouts. 47 pitched. 35 strikes. 97 MPH fastball ... which he had in Dayton. 88 MPH and 82 MPH change ... which he didn't have.

LWW

LWW
04-03-2008, 12:17 PM
Make that no runs, no hits, no walks, no errors, 8 strikeouts thru 5.

LWW

eg8r
04-03-2008, 12:21 PM
Very cool. It is fun to watch to watch these guys move through the farm teams and then do well when they make it into the big show.

eg8r

LWW
04-03-2008, 12:33 PM
Remember the name.

He is, IMHO, the shizzle.

BTW, nmake it 1 run, 1 hit, 10 strikeouts, O walks thru 6.

LWW

SKennedy
04-03-2008, 01:06 PM
Where is he from?

LWW
04-03-2008, 01:45 PM
I believe he's from the Dominican Republic.

Final stas, 7 innings, 10 whiffs, 1 run, 1 hit, no walks, no hit batters, no errors, 1st Redleg to strikeout 10 in their 1st game since 1900, 1st pitcher to go 5 perfect innings in their 1st start since 1987, Redlegs win 3-2.

LWW

SKennedy
04-03-2008, 02:37 PM
As for pitching stats, I really like the 10 strikeouts vs 0 walks. Of course 1 hit and 1 earned run over 7 innings isn't too bad.....and the real stat is the win. But, what will really be important is how well he does when he is having an "off" day....can he still do his job as a starter and keep his team in the game. Sounds like the 1 run he gave up was a home run? At that level, a really good pitch can still end up over the fence!

So, He's from the DR! I think you will find more and more players in pro ball from Latin America as there is more of an influx of latino players being recruited and brought into the states to play college baseball at all levels...Div 1 thru Div 3...including JUCO. Many have raw talent, but are not well-disciplined at playing organized ball. Some of these college teams these days will have 75% or more of the players who primarily speak Spanish, but all different dialects as they are from all over Central and South America. If the youth programs in these countries were to become more sophisticated (really good coaching, funding, etc.), they would soon be the largest majority in major league baseball. Many of the current and former pros are trying to further develop the programs back in their home countries.

sack316
04-04-2008, 12:03 AM
his stuff looked awesome... so long as he is developed properly at this level and kept injury free (i.e. don't overwork the youngster early on as my Cubbies did with Wood and Prior) and he should be a great pitcher. The real test will come closer to the all star break when teams have seen him more and then we can find out if he can rely on more than just his amazing "stuff".

But so far so good, and easily one of the best (if not the best) pitching debut I have seen. Now I'm just wishing he was in a different division! Then again LWW, I think I may have figured out a way I'd give you Pinella now /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sack

p.s. while on the topic of watching people we've known and/or seen develop. I have the priviledge of knowing and playing with several players in MLB at the moment. While I am proud of them, I often get a bit frustrated at myself when I recall that I signed a year earlier than the few I know that were the same age as me when we were in high school (all of the guys from Alabama in my graduation year signes their letters of intent or contract in their senior years... mine was in my Junior year). **sigh** eh, what's a few million lost... Sack needs a hug lol

LWW
04-04-2008, 05:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SKennedy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for pitching stats, I really like the 10 strikeouts vs 0 walks. Of course 1 hit and 1 earned run over 7 innings isn't too bad.....and the real stat is the win. But, what will really be important is how well he does when he is having an "off" day....can he still do his job as a starter and keep his team in the game. Sounds like the 1 run he gave up was a home run? At that level, a really good pitch can still end up over the fence!</div></div>
All true.

You also have to take into account that fastballs account for the most HRs and GABP is the most homer friendly park in the history of the game.

But, with 0 walks you usually won't get hurt too bad by the long ball.

As far as poise under pressure, after the HR he knocked down the last 6 like it never happened.

As an added blessing, the kid speaks and reads almost no English ... which is probably a blessing because in the local papers they are punching his ticket to the H of F this AM.

LWW

SKennedy
04-04-2008, 08:40 AM
I certainly was not faulting him for giving up 1 long ball with nobody on the bases. Although when my son gave up a long ball I always scored it as an E-1.
And Sack, while my son never made it to the pro ranks, he did play vs quite a few players who are in the majors today. Most of whom he has hit with a fastball or 2, and generally was done on purpose!
I coached him into his college years and then watched almost all his games until he finished school. Now, he's teaching high school physics/chemistry and math and coaching baseball. He works about 1 1/2 hours away and we (wife & I) go to almost all the high school games (home and away games). I know people must thing we're nuts for going and traveling that far, but I can't quit cold turkey! He's coaching the boys, and I'm still trying to coach him.
I wish this 19 y/o the best, no matter who he is playing for. As Sack said....hope he can hold up, and time will tell.

LWW
08-01-2011, 05:21 AM
As an update to this thread from days gone by ... as of late yesterday, Johnny Cueto officially became the best pitcher in all of major league baseball, as measured by lowest earned run average against.

This, IMHO, has always been the gold standard of pitching metrics as a player can have a lot of wins with few losses if he is the pitcher fortunate enough to pitch the most often on high scoring days.

It also negates out the effect from a lot of errors if they pitch for a poor defensive team.

Johnny's ERA currently is at a tiny 1.72 ... more than 2.10 earned runs per 9 innings less than the current MLB average.

Meanwhile ... Homer continues to struggle.

Soflasnapper
08-01-2011, 12:41 PM
Would you give the nod on this measure as best pitcher to someone like a Mariano Rivera, or other closer, should they be the lowest ERAs?

Or is the closer spot too different to directly compare to starter ERAs, in your view?

eg8r
08-01-2011, 01:35 PM
I would think it was different. Most are called on for just an inning or so (even though it is generally high pressure to come in with your stuff right away with no room for errors) and the starter is expected to get through at least 6 innings.

eg8r

LWW
08-01-2011, 02:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would you give the nod on this measure as best pitcher to someone like a Mariano Rivera, or other closer, should they be the lowest ERAs?

Or is the closer spot too different to directly compare to starter ERAs, in your view? </div></div>

To be specific ... the closer's innings sample is too small and the way the game is played today, a closer's ERA is artificially low.

Here's a n example ... the closer comes in with the bases loaded and 1 out and a 2 run lead. He strikes out the first batter and gives up a triple to the next.

His team loses the game ... and his ERA goes down.

Soflasnapper
08-01-2011, 04:41 PM
Eg8r and LWW: Fair, and I understand and agree. Not a true baseball fan, so didn't trust my own thinking, but I almost got there on my own anyway.

LWW
08-02-2011, 01:37 AM
The physical skills of a closer are quite unique. For one they need a rubber arm that can pitch several days consecutively, and the mental ability to only pitch with the game on the line.

Beyond that ... a guy with an ERA of under 6.00 should easily close the majority of games if coming in to pitch a clean ninth ... from the start of the inning ... with a lead of 1,2, or 3 runs.