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View Full Version : Need help formulating offer for used table



Riccardo
04-05-2008, 04:04 PM
Hello, Everyone! New poster here, so please forgive me if I stumble thru.
I'm considering buying a slightly used 1997 Olhausen Montrachet from the original owner. The table is fully disassembled and in storage. I am told that is was hardly used and was well taken care of. The owner has submitted photos of the assembled table before storage and the parts now in storage (rails & cushions) and this looks to be accurate. I am told that the original sticker price was $3700, but was purchased for $3200 because it was the last of the previous yearís model with an obsolete finish. His asking price is $2900. The table is solid oak with a natural oak finish (high-gloss). The pockets are trimmed with fringe. The cloth I am told is a "slow cloth" so I assume it is a standard fabric not Simonis or Olhausen's Accu-Guard. Price includes oak stand-alone Ďcornerí pool cue holder, nawgahide cover, brush, wood 8 ball and 9 ball rack and "some other miscellaneous items". Balls are of "high quality" and pool cues are standard quality. Seems a bit high for an 11 year old model. I called a local Olhausen dealer and was told that current Montrachet models are starting at $3295. Love to hear your thoughts of what I should offer or should I forget it and buy new? I know new will get me a warranty. There is a sale going on now of $200 off. My original plan was to buy the Augusta model but when I came across this Montrachet it changed my direction.
Thanks!

dg-in-centralpa
04-05-2008, 05:06 PM
I'm not an expert on tables, but did you check the price on a comparable Brunswick or any other brand? If brand is no concern, check with a game room vendor, the ones who supply pinball, jukeboxes, etc. You can usually get a decent table at a reasonable price, with good cloth, etc. That's what I did. I got a bar box( only thing that would fit), unless you're looking at a 9 foot, try this out.

DG - 4 weeks until the Kentucky Derby

Riccardo
04-05-2008, 06:07 PM
Thanks, dg. I did at first but I prefer the solid wood furniture pieces. It's coincidental that you mention Brunswick tables because my local Olhausen dealer said they had an un-named Brunswick table that was similar to the Olhausen Montrachet at around $500-$600 less, but I preferred to stay with Olhausen. Bad move?

DeadCrab
04-06-2008, 06:27 AM
I don't claim to be an expert on used tables, but this sounds like a deal that you should walk away from.

Used pool tables tend to be cheap. A lot of people who sell them have to dump 'em because they are moving and don't want to pay to move it (expensive), or their new dwelling can't accommodate a pool table.

Also, you will have the cost of transporting it, and paying a qualified mechanic to set it up. After 11 years, the cloth and rubber are probably shot (rubber can go bad whether played on, or not). So, you may have to spend over $400 to get the thing set up and playable.

In many markets, a used table like this will go for around $1000.

Sid_Vicious
04-06-2008, 10:43 AM
If it was me, I'd offer $1500, expecting to have 5-6 hundred in moving, new cloth and setup, a total cost of 2K. Understandably, it is like new, but it's a heavy pool table and an albatros in most cases to sell. jm2c...sid~~~who would walk away if that didn't set with the seller

dg-in-centralpa
04-06-2008, 05:47 PM
Nothing is a bad move, it's all in how bad do you want this table and how much is it worth to you. I bought mine off a guy who supplies tables to bars and I paid $800 about 10 years ago. It came with new cloth, new house sticks, and new balls, plus delivery and set up. It was not a major brand, but it is a slate bed.

DG

Scott Lee
04-06-2008, 09:20 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Riccardo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello, Everyone! New poster here, so please forgive me if I stumble thru.
I'm considering buying a slightly used 1997 Olhausen Montrachet from the original owner. The table is fully disassembled and in storage. I am told that is was hardly used and was well taken care of. The owner has submitted photos of the assembled table before storage and the parts now in storage (rails & cushions) and this looks to be accurate. I am told that the original sticker price was $3700, but was purchased for $3200 because it was the last of the previous yearís model with an obsolete finish. His asking price is $2900. The table is solid oak with a natural oak finish (high-gloss). The pockets are trimmed with fringe. The cloth I am told is a "slow cloth" so I assume it is a standard fabric not Simonis or Olhausen's Accu-Guard. Price includes oak stand-alone Ďcornerí pool cue holder, nawgahide cover, brush, wood 8 ball and 9 ball rack and "some other miscellaneous items". Balls are of "high quality" and pool cues are standard quality. Seems a bit high for an 11 year old model. I called a local Olhausen dealer and was told that current Montrachet models are starting at $3295. Love to hear your thoughts of what I should offer or should I forget it and buy new? I know new will get me a warranty. There is a sale going on now of $200 off. My original plan was to buy the Augusta model but when I came across this Montrachet it changed my direction.
Thanks!
</div></div>

You can buy a new Olhausen table for $3K, and you're even CONSIDERING paying only $100 less, for an 11 year old table? I don't care if it was still in the box, it's not worth half what the guy is asking. Go buy a new Cadillac for $50K. Drive it 10 miles, and see if you can get $49K for it. People would laugh at you. A dealer might offer you $40K...MIGHT. This is the same thing. People have no clue about how time devalues most anything. Some artwork...some rare pool cues...some rare cars...MOST real estate...will hold their value, and maybe even appreciate over time. This pool table is not one of those things. Olhausen is a fine quality table. If you're going to spend that kind of money, go buy the new one from the dealer. Just make sure that setup (to your satisfaction) is part of the deal. For that same $3K, you can get a much better professional quality table (Olhausen makes some very high end tables too, that can be bought in this price range, at 10+ years old), if you buy used. This "used" deal is no good...walk away, because the original owner has no clue, and will only be insulted by you offering him what his table is really worth.

Scott Lee

SpiderMan
04-10-2008, 01:29 PM
It's probably a good table, but a terrible price. A used pool table is one of the hardest things in the world to find the right buyer for. Unless you're living in the middle of nowhere, you should be able to find a comparable table, still set up so you can check it out, for $1500-$2000. People who sell their homes get desperate quickly as their move date approaches, and you might pick off a bargain if you're willing to wait for it.

Also, the fact that this table is already disassembled is a liability. It won't cost you any less to have it moved and set up, and there's always the risk of lost or damaged parts in storage. Remember - the "new" price of a pool table usually includes free moving and setup.

SpiderMan

Treehumper
04-11-2008, 07:43 AM
If you really want that particular table because of it's aesthetic quality. You're going to have to ease the owner into a realization of the value of the table. Ask them what they are basing the selling price on. Do some research on the type of table to show them what the market values them at. Much like how homes or cars are valued. Starting with original cost, then subtracting depreciation offset by condition. This will include wear and tear and aging of parts such as the rails. Look at the price to purchase a new table, delivery, set up and warranty. Factor those things out based on real cost and the value of a warranty to establish a comparable to this table.

You are negotiating a sale and this takes more than just throwing a price out there and relying on the owner's desperation. I'm assuming you wish to be fair and walk away with both parties satisfied the deal is equitable. Walk the owner through your appraisal while asking him/her if he agrees with each step of the process. If they can see it this way then they too will come to understand and potentially agree with the price you are willing to pay. They won't feel as if you are taking advantage of them or their situation. On the other hand, if you want to take advantage of their situation and play this ruthlessly you can also factor that in to add a "must sell" discount to alleviate them of the burden of moving or continuing to store the table.

IMHO, if you go thru this exercise it will make purchasing any table easier as you will know how to establish the real value and negotiate effectively.

Good luck!

Riccardo
04-12-2008, 08:37 AM
Thank you all for sharing your wisdom. I've decided to pass on the deal and go new. I got, what I think, is a great deal on a pre-China 8' Brunswick Avalon. The Avalon model isn't made any longer. The dealer I purchased it from is an Olhausen dealer that was formerly a Brunswick dealer. They are currently running their annual Olhausen sale of $200 off and are applying that sale to their remaining Brunswick inventory. My purchase price after the discount is $2595 pre-sales tax. The Avalon is a beautiful piece constructed of solid ash with a matte honey finish, ornate ram's head leg with carved knees, routed cabinetry, deep, fringed pockets, pearlized diamond rail sights and of course Brunswick's SuperSpeed cushions. The only quandary I am facing is the color of the cloth (deciding between Olive, Spruce, Dark Green, Standard Green or some other color) and whether or not to upgrade the cloth from the Forstmann cloth which I believe to be Marquis. Iím not sure I want to spend the extra $150 plus sales tax to do it. It puts me over what I had budgeted. How much of a difference will it make to beginners like me and my family? Based on what I have told you about the table, Iíd like to hear your opinions on choice of cloth and cloth color. Thanks!

BigRigTom
04-12-2008, 10:32 AM
Spend the few extra dollars and get Simonis 860 cloth.
You will not be sorry....after all you may be a beginner now but you won't always be a beginner!

On a home table that cloth will last for years and it will make you proud to say to your friends you have the same covering that is used by the pros and as seen on TV....and just think about it....there is a reason the pros prefer Simonis!

Riccardo
04-12-2008, 09:40 PM
Thanks, BigRigTom! I thought it through today and I've decided to upgrade the cloth as an investment. I don't want to have a high-end table with a low-end cloth. It cheapens the appearance. Okay, now the big question is Simonis 860 or Accu-Guard cloth. I had heard that the Accu-Guard could cause ball skip due to the spill protection in the fabric. Since I am now looking at it as an investment, I'd like to hear the communityís thoughts on the performance, durability, longevity, playability, etc of these two cloths. Thanks!

Scott Lee
04-13-2008, 01:36 AM
No question here...get the Simonis 860.

Scott Lee

Riccardo
04-14-2008, 06:19 AM
Iíve decided to upgrade the cloth to Simonis 860 Spruce. I think the Spruce looks great against the honey finish, but now I am not sure whether the Spruce will be too dark of a play field. Would anyone out there be willing to share their thoughts/experiences on this subject? I can hold off the delivery until I make my final decision, but I donít want to wait too long. The Simonis is an investment so I want to make the right choice now and enjoy years of play. Thanks!

DeadCrab
04-14-2008, 07:55 AM
I play on a dark green cloth, close to spruce.

Although I like the way that it looks, when I recloth I will probably go with traditional tournament green.

For dark-solid balls, like the 4,6, and 8, it is difficult to pick out aim points on the bottom of the ball for cuts less than 15 degrees.

So, if you are a bottom-of-ball aimer, you might want something lighter. If not, get the spruce, and matching chalk.

BigRigTom
04-14-2008, 09:32 AM
Just keep in mind that the darker the cloth the sooner you will begin to see those skid marks from the cue ball being hit hard like on the break shot.

I have tournament green and I like it.
I sometimes wish I had gotten the bright blue like they use on TV because the bar where I play in the APA recently recovered their tables in that bright blue and it does really look nice.
Of course my table is in my garage which I have converted to a game room. If yours is in the house the wife will have something to say about the color.

You can see my table with the Simonis 860 in Tournament Green here! (http://hardingersystems.com/BAT-forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39)
Spruce is nice but you can never go wrong with the tournament green. Good luck and I do hope you'll post some pictures when you are done with it.

Riccardo
04-15-2008, 09:16 PM
Thanks for the input guys! I now want to go lighter. I'm thinking tournament green, but I'm reading a few forums and many of the players seem to be favoring tournament blue. Is that the new way to go?

Riccardo
04-18-2008, 06:15 AM
Nice table pics Tom! I have decided to go with tournament green. I want to thank all of you who have shared your opinions and experiences to help me make what I feel are good decisions regarding my new table. Hope to share some photos down the line.
Keep on shooting!

Riccardo
04-23-2008, 01:05 PM
Guys, quick question. My new table was just installed. I have Simonis 860 Tournament Green cloth. The technicians left me with Silver Cup Spuce chalk. Should I exchange it for Green?

Thanks,

Riccardo

BigRigTom
04-23-2008, 03:48 PM
Throw that out and get Master Blue Chalk!
It is the only way to go!

That is my opinion, anyway.

Riccardo
04-23-2008, 06:51 PM
BRTom, Just returned from the dealer with Master Green cause they were out of Blue. Curious. Why the Blue and not the Green?

Riccardo

BigRigTom
04-23-2008, 07:47 PM
No real reason. I just like blue and most everyone I know does. I don't think there is a real scientic reason for it we just like it.

Riccardo
04-23-2008, 08:29 PM
Well, that's cool! Blue just happens to be my fav color. Thanks again for the input.

Riccardo