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View Full Version : To be lucky or not to be lucky



Karatemom
08-06-2002, 11:27 AM
Okay, played last night. Won my first match by sheer luck, and lost the next two by sheer unluck!! It seemed like I just couldn't string anything together. The match I did win, I did not win by skill. I accidentally kicked the 9 in after cutting the 3 in the corner (didn't even see it happen). I hate winning that way, but a win is a win, right?

The two opponents I lost to played the same speed and worse than myself, so I know they didn't win by skill either. One however, does have a lot of knowledge about the game, just doesn't have the skill to back it up, so I hear. The other has neither of the two. It was his first tourney and you could tell it might have been the first time he had ever picked up a cue. I'm not trying to downplay their game, but just trying to give you a picture of what it was like, (assuming you know how I play).

I know playing lower handicapped players is dangerous because they can get so lucky. Even though I'm a 3 myself, I try NOT to play that way. I don't "ride the 9" or just slam at the balls and hope something goes in. (I think I am the only 3 in this area that doesn't play that way!) If I win, it is because I earned it, or tried to play my game, getting on the balls the way I wanted to, etc., not because I got lucky. Or maybe I just like to think that.

Last week, I earned that 3rd place victory. This week, I'm not so sure I earned 1-2, but that's the way it goes. I would like to think that luck doesn't play much of a role in this game, but now I'm not so sure. I wasn't shooting up to par and my opponents obviously were, or at least one of them was. Basically, I'm rambling, like Chris would,(LOL) but would like some feedback and see what everyone else thinks.

Heide ~ not upset by the loss, but analyzing the loss

Kato
08-06-2002, 11:38 AM
I guess all I can say is that it happens sometimes. I've played sets with guys who will shoot my lights out but get lucky somewhere and really kill me. I've played weaker players who left me safe and missed shots without trying. It works both ways. Don't let it bother you. Keep working, enjoy yourself.

Kato

08-06-2002, 11:45 AM
Hi Heide, I think luck plays a bigger part with new players as opposed to skilled players, but their will always be a certain amount of good luck and bad luck to all players. The old saying is the more you practice the luckier you'll be,LOL. Whenever I win a tournament, I always feel that I got some good rolls. Whenever I lose a tournament, I always feel that I got some bad rolls. The important thing ( I think ) is to keep your mind strong and not to think too much about who got lucky. Good Luck in your future tournaments. Terry

P.S.

Oh yeah, if you play Chris, don't let your cue out of your site because theirs no telling what he might do to it LOL. /webbbs/images/icons/smile.gif

Karatemom
08-06-2002, 12:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Terry:</font><hr> P.S.

Oh yeah, if you play Chris, don't let your cue out of your site because theirs no telling what he might do to it LOL. &lt;img src="/webbbs/images/icons/smile.gif"&gt; <hr></blockquote>

I know! He's already got someone who wants to buy it! I'll give up my D19 when I'm ready, not when he is! LOL. I might be ready pretty soon. It seems that I feel more comfortable with a shorter cue but they're hard to find out here.

Heide ~ thanks for the input, makes sense to me

PQQLK9
08-06-2002, 12:14 PM
Hey K'Mom try some 1 hole...ain't no luck there...

Rich R.
08-06-2002, 12:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karatemom:</font><hr>
I know! He's already got someone who wants to buy it! I'll give up my D19 when I'm ready, not when he is! LOL. I might be ready pretty soon. <hr></blockquote>
Let Chris sell your D19. Then you get his South West. Seems fair to me.
Rich R.~~~of course, it isn't my South West. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Karatemom
08-06-2002, 12:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rich R.:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:
Let Chris sell your D19. Then you get his South West. Seems fair to me.
Rich R.~~~of course, it isn't my South West. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif <hr></blockquote>

No way! I don't want his cue. I'd sooner keep my D19 than have his cue.

Heide ~ crazy, I know

Karatemom
08-06-2002, 12:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: PQQLK9:</font><hr> Hey K'Mom try some 1 hole...ain't no luck there... <hr></blockquote>

I've been itching to learn that game. May have to have Chris show me a few things. It would definitely pick up my safety part of the game.

Heide

Rich R.
08-06-2002, 12:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karatemom:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Rich R.:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:
Let Chris sell your D19. Then you get his South West. Seems fair to me.
Rich R.~~~of course, it isn't my South West. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No way! I don't want his cue. I'd sooner keep my D19 than have his cue.

Heide ~ crazy, I know <hr></blockquote>

Chis, this woman is a keeper!!!!! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif
Rich R.~~~Karatemom passes the test.

Karatemom
08-06-2002, 12:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rich R.:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Karatemom:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Rich R.:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:
Let Chris sell your D19. Then you get his South West. Seems fair to me.
Rich R.~~~of course, it isn't my South West. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No way! I don't want his cue. I'd sooner keep my D19 than have his cue.

Heide ~ crazy, I know &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Chis, this woman is a keeper!!!!! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif
Rich R.~~~Karatemom passes the test. <hr></blockquote>

Okay, what test?!?! What did you guys forget to tell me now??!! LOL

Heide ~ left in the dark, again, LOL

Karatemom
08-06-2002, 12:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Kato:</font><hr> I guess all I can say is that it happens sometimes. I've played sets with guys who will shoot my lights out but get lucky somewhere and really kill me. I've played weaker players who left me safe and missed shots without trying. It works both ways. Don't let it bother you. Keep working, enjoy yourself.

Kato <hr></blockquote>

It doesn't bother me as much as I'm trying to figure out what went wrong. I guess I should just stop trying to figure it out and just play, huh?

Heide ~ always analyzing

socrates
08-06-2002, 12:31 PM
For what its worth:

Rolls are part of the game. As I mentioned to Chris in a previous post I belive if you make the balls you are supposed to make and shoot the correct shots the rolls will go your way. If you start missing balls you should make and/or don't play the correct shot the pool gods will send every roll your opponents way.

Second observation - I would suggest you consider not classifying your opponents e.g. beginning cheese riders, my speed but luckier than me, stonger than me so I will need some lucky rolls to win, etc. Remember ultimately the marksman aims at himself.!!! You should observe your opponents strengths, weaknesses and tendencies so that you can incorporate them into your game plan - These things should be observations void of emotional attachment. When I played a lot of match play on the golf course I always had more success if I kept my feelings (whether they be right or wrong) regarding my opponent out of the match and focused on my game and what I had to do to play to the best of my ability.

I look at handicap tournaments as a kind of a lottery - keep playing in them - give every shot 100% effort - and win its your time to win you will win.

Finally with regard to riding the cheese - play what the table gives you - not shooting a high percentage or best percentage ride on the nine is an example of not playing the correct shot which I mentioned above.

Take what you have learned and go get them next Monday.

Karatemom
08-06-2002, 12:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: socrates:</font><hr> For what its worth:

Rolls are part of the game. As I mentioned to Chris in a previous post I belive if you make the balls you are supposed to make and shoot the correct shots the rolls will go your way. If you start missing balls you should make and/or don't play the correct shot the pool gods will send every roll your opponents way.

Second observation - I would suggest you consider not classifying your opponents e.g. beginning cheese riders, my speed but luckier than me, stonger than me so I will need some lucky rolls to win, etc. Remember ultimately the marksman aims at himself.!!! You should observe your opponents strengths, weaknesses and tendencies so that you can incorporate them into your game plan - These things should be observations void of emotional attachment. When I played a lot of match play on the golf course I always had more success if I kept my feelings (whether they be right or wrong) regarding my opponent out of the match and focused on my game and what I had to do to play to the best of my ability.

I look at handicap tournaments as a kind of a lottery - keep playing in them - give every shot 100% effort - and win its your time to win you will win.

Finally with regard to riding the cheese - play what the table gives you - not shooting a high percentage or best percentage ride on the nine is an example of not playing the correct shot which I mentioned above.

Take what you have learned and go get them next Monday.

<hr></blockquote>

Thanks, Steve. One of my opponents is someone I'm really not too fond of. I suppose if I would stop wanting to beat the daylights out of them, I would concentrate on the game at hand.

I do find myself classifying my opponents quite a bit. That's something I'll have to work on not doing. It would be a lot easier if they were different players every week, LOL. We are getting a whole lot of new ones though, and I enjoy that. I like playing someone I've never seen before; it makes it more interesting. I need to look at every match that way.

Heide ~ needs to start praying to the pool gods, LOL

Rod
08-06-2002, 12:51 PM
"Heide ~ not upset by the loss, but analyzing the loss"

Heide, it's fine your doing that, it just tells you how you won or lost. That's actually what some people I know need to discover. Sometimes they will say oh that guy got lucky he should have never won and get upset. If they truly looked at how they won some matches it wouldn't be any different sometimes. It should give you some ideas on what part of your game needs more attention. It should be just an observation and let it pass, and it sounds like you will do just that. How people play week to week in tournaments can be light years apart at lower levels, but it does happen to better players to. It just doesn't happen as often. That's why you practice, it builds consistancy in your game.

rod~~ knows Heide will keep getting better

Karatemom
08-06-2002, 01:16 PM
Thanks for the kind words. And you're right, I will figure out what went wrong and fix it.

Heide

phil in sofla
08-06-2002, 01:26 PM
It evidently can happen at the highest levels of play.

Kato got the last Mosconi Cup tapes, and while I have not been invited to see them (!), he says the lopsided nature of that match was due to a lot of rolls, that the Europeans over and over again would break only to see no balls made, or balls made on the break without any shot or safety available for their next shot, and the converse was true for the American team, repeatedly and consistently.

Since even highly improbable things show up on occasion, and at the worst times, things that are more common can occur in bunches, and will. It doesn't seem possible that they could run so far one way, and not even out, but in the limited time frames of short races, they surely can run either for you or against you, sort of like when you call heads and lose 5 times in a row, or win the call 5 times in a row. Stick around in this game long enough and you'll see it all happen a time or two.

With that explanation, of course, if you have your option, chose being lucky over being unlucky. Can that be chosen? At least some people think so. How? Tell yourself 'I get good rolls,' and use it everyday among the other affirmations you use to program your mind. (What other affirmations!!!???) Anyway, something about expecting bad rolls seems to bring them, and something about expecting good rolls brings them as well.

Rich R.
08-07-2002, 04:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karatemom:</font><hr> Okay, what test?!?! What did you guys forget to tell me now??!! LOL

Heide ~ left in the dark, again, LOL <hr></blockquote>
/ccboard/images/icons/shocked.gif Oh, did I say test? I didn't mean test. I meant, hmmmmmmm, I meant hmmmmmmmmm, I meant something other than a test. /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif
Rich R.

Q-guy
08-07-2002, 06:05 AM
I always feel that almost any shot I have gotten a bad roll on, if I could shoot it over the outcome would be different. So was it really bad luck or a bad execution. You will be surprised, as you play better more good things seem to happen and less bad. The better you play the luckier you seem to be, but not really. As far as how you may be left after the other player shoots. Don't look at it as lucky or unlucky. Just make the most of every turn at the table without all that negative thoughts about things you have no control over. Don't gloat over a good roll, or cry about a bad roll. It is just part of the game and I would not have it any other way.

Karatemom
08-07-2002, 10:32 AM
Negative thoughts might just have been my problem. Once I got a few bad rolls and they got a few good ones, I think I probably set my loss in stone at that point.

I still have a lot to learn about this game and you guys, and Chris, sure do help me think about things I wouldn't have thought of.

Heide

Chris Cass
08-07-2002, 11:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rich R.:</font><hr>Let Chris sell your D19. Then you get his South West. Seems fair to me.
Rich R.~~~of course, it isn't my South West. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif <hr></blockquote>

Rich, thanks for the help. LOL Seriously, I tried so hard to get her to wait and I'd by her a S.W. but she was hell bent on getting the D-19. What can I say? I should have anyway. I could of had two. LOL She's only got like 4 mths of shooting in on the cue. Meeting Jim McDermott really made her like it even more.

Regards,

C.C.

Chris Cass
08-07-2002, 11:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> "Heide ~ not upset by the loss, but analyzing the loss"

Heide, it's fine your doing that, it just tells you how you won or lost. That's actually what some people I know need to discover. Sometimes they will say oh that guy got lucky he should have never won and get upset. If they truly looked at how they won some matches it wouldn't be any different sometimes. It should give you some ideas on what part of your game needs more attention. It should be just an observation and let it pass, and it sounds like you will do just that. How people play week to week in tournaments can be light years apart at lower levels, but it does happen to better players to. It just doesn't happen as often. That's why you practice, it builds consistancy in your game.

rod~~ knows Heide will keep getting better <hr></blockquote>

Hi Rod,

I agree totally. I told her the exact same thing. I said, remember the shots that cost you, games or the ones you feel you had a hard time with. So, she can shoot those shots in practice. She's coming around.

Regards,

C.C.

Rich R.
08-07-2002, 11:52 AM
From her comments, it sounds like Heide definitely does not want your cue. Is it that she does not like the South West cues or she does not like the price?
Rich R.~thinking about buying a South West for my wife. Maybe she will play pool some day. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Karatemom
08-07-2002, 12:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Rod,

I agree totally. I told her the exact same thing. I said, remember the shots that cost you, games or the ones you feel you had a hard time with. So, she can shoot those shots in practice. She's coming around.

Regards,

C.C. <hr></blockquote>

Yeah, but you know I can't even remember the name of the person I played, much less what shots I missed. I thought that's why you were there, hahahahaha.

Heide

Karatemom
08-07-2002, 12:41 PM
A little bit of both. I like black and white, and I can't see spending a whole lot of money on a cue right now. If I was any good, winning tourneys left and right, I might consider it. But I don't know a whole lot about cues to begin with. I'm just now figuring out that my D19 may be too big and maybe a little heavy for me, so that's why I'm thinking about getting rid of it. If S.W. made a $250 - $500 black and white 56", 17.5 oz cue, I might consider it.

Heide ~ don't know what the he** she wants

08-07-2002, 01:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Q-guy:</font><hr> I always feel that almost any shot I have gotten a bad roll on, if I could shoot it over the outcome would be different. So was it really bad luck or a bad execution. You will be surprised, as you play better more good things seem to happen and less bad. The better you play the luckier you seem to be, but not really. As far as how you may be left after the other player shoots. Don't look at it as lucky or unlucky. Just make the most of every turn at the table without all that negative thoughts about things you have no control over. Don't gloat over a good roll, or cry about a bad roll. It is just part of the game and I would not have it any other way. <hr></blockquote>

Q-Guy, I think what you said and what I tried to say are one and the same, only you said it clearer. LOL, Terry

Rich R.
08-07-2002, 01:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karatemom:</font><hr> If S.W. made a $250 - $500 black and white 56", 17.5 oz cue, I might consider it.

Heide ~ don't know what the he** she wants <hr></blockquote>
I'm sure S.W. would make whatever you wanted, however, you may have a little trouble on the price. /ccboard/images/icons/frown.gif
Rich R.

Voodoo Daddy
08-07-2002, 08:22 PM
Oh K-mom, I'll send you a new Omen if he sells that D-19. Just tell him he has to pony up some dough to Voodoo
...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Karatemom
08-07-2002, 08:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> Oh K-mom, I'll send you a new Omen if he sells that D-19. Just tell him he has to pony up some dough to Voodoo
...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! <hr></blockquote>

Wait a minute. Who said HE was going to sell MY cue?????? Don't forget whose cue it is!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Heide

Vicki
08-07-2002, 09:48 PM
I have to agree with Socrates here... I think it's a terrible thing to have a shot on the 9 and fail to take it. IMO, you have to develop a habit of winning when you are playing (at any game and at any skill level). I'm not suggesting you hit as hard as you can at the 9 and hope it rolls to a pocket but if you have a reasonable chance of making the shot you should go for it. I learned this from the biggest loser I've ever known (who I will not name, so don't ask). This guy couldn't keep a dollar in his pocket to save his dog's life! Natural born loser, I say. Never saw him win at pool, cards, dice or ANYTHING!!! It's pathetic - just pathetic. If anyone knows that you can develop a habit of winning it is a sucker with a habit of losing!

Too many people have the impression that riding the nine is a bad thing and that only people with no heart go for those shots. I don't suggest leaving a guy out if you miss or failing to take a safety if it is a better shot.

I find too, that if I am playing smart, ie, playing safe when I am supposed to and pushing after the break when I don't have a decent shot or safety... and if I am really deciding before I get down to shoot exactly where I need to leave the cue ball and how I am going to get it there I get better rolls. The bad rolls seem to come more often and in greater quantity when I am being a little careless and not thinking things all the way through. Also when I am paying attention things other than the pool table. Who was it that recently said "keep you eyes inside the rails"?

Keep playing and always play to win. If the rolls don't go your way one night just wait 'til next time. You have to figure that you pay more attention to the bad rolls but if you count and keep score, good and bad rolls, it all balances out in the end.

Thanks for a good post.

Karatemom
08-07-2002, 11:34 PM
Thanks for the response, Vicki. One minute I think and the next, I don't. It's still early in my "pool career" LOL; I just need to be patient and everything will fall into place, eventually.

Heide

Chris Cass
08-08-2002, 11:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karatemom:</font><hr>
Yeah, but you know I can't even remember the name of the person I played, much less what shots I missed. I thought that's why you were there, hahahahaha.
Heide <hr></blockquote>

Oh, I got it all wrong. I thought I was there to hold Christ's case, get you both cokes, listen to you beat up on yourself, Christ telling me to, "go over there Dad" and give you both good luck? Neither, one of you want me within 10 feet of you. Ok, I'll lay off the, "why didn't you's." Christ, is dangerous.. He'll ask me if I want another broken finger. LOL

Chris~~getting more like me everyday. hahahaha