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View Full Version : "Sick Around the World" Frontline, tonight, 9:00



Gayle in MD
04-15-2008, 10:07 AM
Although I mentioned this in several posts, I thought it was worth a separate post. I think this program will provide a good overview of government sponsored health care, and which countries have the best programs, along with the costs, and statements regarding how they are working for the citizens of various countries.

I was pleasantly surprised while listening to Mr. Reid, the Washington Post reporter who traveled around the world, interviewing both citizens, and officials about their various health care programs, that many countries have very good health care, and that the public in some of these countries, is quite satisfied with their health care programs, which provide very good health care.

Perhaps, Universal Health Care is a very good idea, and not socialism at all. :-)

Gayle in Md.

cheesemouse
04-16-2008, 09:28 AM
Gayle, thanks for the reminders. A must see program for anyone who professes or argues on this subject...thanks again for the reminder...you go girl:)

sack316
04-16-2008, 10:54 AM
Unfortunately I was in class and did not have a chance to catch it. BUT a little seach and I found that the PBS website has it available for viewing online:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

So when I get time I shall watch it and see what i think. Just thought I'd go ahead and post the link for others who may want to view it at their convenience.

Sack

Bobbyrx
04-16-2008, 11:21 AM
I thought this had already been done. You mean "Sicko" wasn't a good overview of government sponsored health care? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

cheesemouse
04-16-2008, 12:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bobbyrx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought this had already been done. You mean "Sicko" wasn't a good overview of government sponsored health care? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif </div></div> this fine show will lessen the ignorance of all who watch it....:)

wolfdancer
04-16-2008, 12:41 PM
Thanks for the link.....I'm going to watch it right after the baptism...
Connie asked me to be Godfather to her child...then I'll meet with Don Barzighni, Cuneo, Slotchi, Moe Green, Tattaligia...all the heads of the Five Families.

Deeman3
04-16-2008, 01:43 PM
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

I heard a program on NPR (No, not this NPR) that outlined the Japanese private health care system. It is wonderful for the customers who see the doctors at a rate three times more often than Americans. Treatment of a laseration costs 450 yen (about $4.50), an MRI costs $98 as opposed to $1,500 in the U.S.

You never need an appointment and everyone must purchase coverage which has a very low premium. All the costs are government regulated so doctors can only charge what the government terms appropriate. The only down side, they claim, is that doctors can't drive BMW's and make very little.

Unfortunately, all the present Presidential candidates get large donations from the Health Care Industry and would never stiff these contributors. So, maybe if Hillary would propose this plan, we could get behind her? I know the doctors and lawyers would be in sad shape but, after all, she is for the little person, right? Would this not solve everything, if your not a doctor.

When I got the bill, I knew why the doctor was wearing a mask!

Deeman3
04-16-2008, 01:43 PM

Bobbyrx
04-16-2008, 02:11 PM
I went to see my doctor. "Doctor, every morning when I get up and look in the mirror... I feel like throwing up; What's wrong with me?" He said..."I don't know but your eyesight is perfect."

I'm so ugly that when I saw my proctologist, he stuck his finger in my mouth..............boy I miss Rodney

Deeman3
04-16-2008, 03:50 PM
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

pooltchr
04-16-2008, 06:03 PM
My problems with "Universal healthcare" come from looking at other countries as well. I haven't studied the system in Japan, but both Canada and England show what we can expect. Canadians must wait much longer for what we consider standard proceedures. (CT, MRI, Ultrasound, etc) Many Canadians choose to cross the boarder into the US and pay for medical service here since the quality of healthcare is much better. I read not too long ago that a personal friend of Hillary does exactly that.

I heard a story from England today that a woman who passed away had wanted to donate her kidneys to her mother. The government wouldn't allow that. They decided the kidneys should go to someone on the government waiting list. IOW, the government has more control over your body parts than you do. Their reasoning was that since this woman had received "free" government healthcare, the government had the right to determine who would get the kidneys. If that is the case, it's a very small step for the government to decide who should get what proceedures and when. They could easily withold service that could keep an elderly person alive, knowing that when that person dies, they can use the body parts to keep a younger person (tax paying younger person) alive. The elderly person would be a drain on the system, the younger person could continue to work, pay taxes and support the system. I think you can see where this can lead.

As with all things, when you give control of anything to the government, you give up your own personal control. And when the government takes over anything, we are all going to pay dearly for it!

Steve

wolfdancer
04-16-2008, 06:44 PM
them's a whole lot of suppositions....it hasn't happened yet in other countries.

pooltchr
04-17-2008, 04:21 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">them's a whole lot of suppositions....it hasn't happened yet in other countries. </div></div>

Unfortunately, it HAS happened. And we know from experience that when we give the government an inch, they take a mile. I am absolutely against turning over anything to the government that isn't a part of their functions outlined in the constitution.
Steve

Gayle in MD
04-17-2008, 07:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I haven't studied the system in Japan, but both Canada and England show what we can expect. </div></div>

You obviously didn't watch the Frontline special, either, nor research any of the other countries which provide Universal Health Care. In England, for example, there were people demonstrating with signs that said, "No US Style Healthcare Here!"

I suppose you'd prefer living in a country where a huge percentage of the population, nearly half, cannot afford health care at all?

Screaming socialism doesn't solve our severe health care problem. The vast percentage of the people who live in the countries which were highlighted in the Frontline program, loved the Universal Health Care system they had, and the waiting times, were about equal to the waiting time we have here, now, except for one country.

Government isn't always the big bad wolf that some on the right paint it to be.

Gayle in MD
04-17-2008, 07:13 AM
Hi there kiddo. You're quite welcome. Hope all is well for you.

BTW, I'm on a winning streak and made a three rail CB position shot a few weeks ago to set up for the eight, and two rail first kick shots, right into the corner pockets. Oowe, it was sweet!

Love,
Gayle

cheesemouse
04-17-2008, 09:10 AM
All is well with me Gayle and thanks for asking. I'm proud to hear of your pool playing prowess(nice e literation, huh /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif ) The only thing that could make it better is if you were pounding on one of us guys:)

pooltchr
04-17-2008, 05:44 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I haven't studied the system in Japan, but both Canada and England show what we can expect. </div></div>

You obviously didn't watch the Frontline special, either, nor research any of the other countries which provide Universal Health Care. In England, for example, there were people demonstrating with signs that said, "No US Style Healthcare Here!"

I suppose you'd prefer living in a country where a huge percentage of the population, nearly half, cannot afford health care at all?

Screaming socialism doesn't solve our severe health care problem. The vast percentage of the people who live in the countries which were highlighted in the Frontline program, loved the Universal Health Care system they had, and the waiting times, were about equal to the waiting time we have here, now, except for one country.

Government isn't always the big bad wolf that some on the right paint it to be. </div></div>

And you obviously still haven't learned to think for yourself. One of the reasons we have the best healthcare in the world is that we attract the best doctors in the world. How do we do that? By allowing them to make a very good living. When you take away that option, the brightest students will abandon medecine for a more financially rewarding career. I don't know about you, but I prefer my doctor to have been at the top of his class at Duke. Yes, my doctor drives a Mercedes, and I'm happy for him. If I saw him driving a 10 year old Toyota, I might have to wonder just how good he is.

If the government is going to pay for that quality of healthcare, I might be moved to consider it. But the question would still remain...Where would the money come from????

The protesters who want to keep socialized medicine are the same ones who want the government to fix the price of gasoline, make sure they have affordable (government subsidized) housing, food stamps, government sponsored transportation. It's the "gimme" mentality, and only people too stupid to understand that it really isn't free will support it.

Where in the constitution does it say we are all entitled to free healthcare? Why don't you just ask the wealthiest 10% in the country to adopt the other 90% and take care of them? Life is not fair. Some people work hard, get ahead, and enjoy the fruits of their labor. Others just want to sit back and wait for Robin Hood to come along and take it away from them and give it to them. When that happens, what is the motivation for anyone to lead a productive life?

Socialists SUCK!!!

Steve

cheesemouse
04-18-2008, 08:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I haven't studied the system in Japan, but both Canada and England show what we can expect. </div></div>

You obviously didn't watch the Frontline special, either, nor research any of the other countries which provide Universal Health Care. In England, for example, there were people demonstrating with signs that said, "No US Style Healthcare Here!"

I suppose you'd prefer living in a country where a huge percentage of the population, nearly half, cannot afford health care at all?

Screaming socialism doesn't solve our severe health care problem. The vast percentage of the people who live in the countries which were highlighted in the Frontline program, loved the Universal Health Care system they had, and the waiting times, were about equal to the waiting time we have here, now, except for one country.

Government isn't always the big bad wolf that some on the right paint it to be. </div></div>

And you obviously still haven't learned to think for yourself. One of the reasons we have the best healthcare in the world is that we attract the best doctors in the world. How do we do that? By allowing them to make a very good living. When you take away that option, the brightest students will abandon medecine for a more financially rewarding career. I don't know about you, but I prefer my doctor to have been at the top of his class at Duke. Yes, my doctor drives a Mercedes, and I'm happy for him. If I saw him driving a 10 year old Toyota, I might have to wonder just how good he is.

If the government is going to pay for that quality of healthcare, I might be moved to consider it. But the question would still remain...Where would the money come from????

The protesters who want to keep socialized medicine are the same ones who want the government to fix the price of gasoline, make sure they have affordable (government subsidized) housing, food stamps, government sponsored transportation. It's the "gimme" mentality, and only people too stupid to understand that it really isn't free will support it.

Where in the constitution does it say we are all entitled to free healthcare? Why don't you just ask the wealthiest 10% in the country to adopt the other 90% and take care of them? Life is not fair. Some people work hard, get ahead, and enjoy the fruits of their labor. Others just want to sit back and wait for Robin Hood to come along and take it away from them and give it to them. When that happens, what is the motivation for anyone to lead a productive life?

Socialists SUCK!!!

Steve</div></div> You need to improve your information diet. When your at the informational salad bar(ie the world wide web) try the multitude of condiments, it's good roughage for the mind...I know we tend to seek out information that reinforces our prejudices but....
Do yourself a favor and at the very least watch the show as Gayle suggested...

Gayle in MD
04-18-2008, 03:35 PM
Yeah, well last night I was shooting awful! Just couldn't seem to settle, and my opponent was on, very on!

I still won though. Played safeties, and set him up for a scratch on the eight. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif but I did feel guilty about it,.... for a second. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Love,
Gayle

eg8r
04-18-2008, 03:43 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You obviously didn't watch the Frontline special, either, nor research any of the other countries which provide Universal Health Care. In England, for example, there were people demonstrating with signs that said, "No US Style Healthcare Here!"</div></div> LOL, you are a laugh. Don't let the cold hard facts get in the way Gayle because, OMG, there was someone holding a sign that said, "No US Style Healthcare Here!"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Screaming socialism doesn't solve our severe health care problem. </div></div> Neither does proposing hillary's socialist ideas of healthcare.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
04-18-2008, 04:41 PM
Thanks Ed, for another example of how uninformed you are. It's good that you keep reminding us.

Now I just can't wait to hear your own solution to our Health Care crises. I'm sure you've got it all figured out,...hmmm.... lower taxes, and borrow more money from China, to pay for Health Care?

cheesemouse
04-18-2008, 08:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, well last night I was shooting awful! Just couldn't seem to settle, and my opponent was on, very on!

I still won though. Played safeties, and set him up for a scratch on the eight. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif but I did feel guilty about it,.... for a second. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Love,
Gayle</div></div> Feels kind of naughty talking pool on the NPR. I like naughty...good shooting:)

eg8r
04-19-2008, 07:33 AM
Yes, you watching a bit of propoganda is definitely very informing. What a laugh.

Our solution for health care is for the government to get out of its way and quit slowing up progress.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm sure you've got it all figured out,...hmmm.... lower taxes, and borrow more money from China, to pay for Health Care?
</div></div> Instead of borrowing money from China I say we just give them free rent in the Lincoln bedroom.

eg8r

cheesemouse
04-19-2008, 08:38 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, you watching a bit of propoganda is definitely very informing. What a laugh.

Our solution for health care is for the government to get out of its way and quit slowing up progress.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm sure you've got it all figured out,...hmmm.... lower taxes, and borrow more money from China, to pay for Health Care?
</div></div> Instead of borrowing money from China I say we just give them free rent in the Lincoln bedroom.

eg8r </div></div>Hey, Ed how you been? Did you watch the show? How do you know what is and what is not propaganda if you do not even see it? Do you have special powers? Does the defense contractor you work for provide Cadillac Health care for you and yours? There are so many questions I would like to ask; it has been so long...

Don't forget your helmet....:)

Gayle in MD
04-19-2008, 09:13 AM
You didn't even see it. Good of you to give us an update on your right wing talking points, and another example of your frail grasp of any political, policy subject.

The Government isn't in the way of the highway robbery that is presently going on in the corrupt health care insurance industry, nor of other arms of health care service. Your President has assisted their highway robbery. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

eg8r
04-19-2008, 10:35 AM
It is best for Government to stay out of the way. I will be quite pleased that when we don't have hillary raping the American taxpayer's money to fund her socialist ideas. My hope is that McCain does a better job with the money than W ever did.

eg8r

eg8r
04-19-2008, 10:39 AM
My family and I have been doing great, thanks for asking. I sure can't wait until my daughter grows out of the terrible two syndrome but rest assured once she is out of it my son will be just beginning. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey, Ed how you been? Did you watch the show? How do you know what is and what is not propaganda</div></div> I did not have to watch the show and my reasoning is simple...If Gayle is pushing it then there is definitely a leftist slant to the message and we have enough Michael Moore's to listen to we don't need another. How often do you hear about people in England praising their medical care? NEVER. How often do we hear about people in Canada leaving Canada to come to the US for healthcare? IT HAPPENS EVERYDAY. How often do you hear stories of US citizens moving to Canada for healthcare? NEXT TO NEVER.

Socialism does not work and just because Bill's coattail running wife wants to push it does not change that fact.

eg8r

pooltchr
04-19-2008, 12:49 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The Government isn't in the way of the highway robbery that is presently going on in the corrupt health care insurance industry, nor of other arms of health care service. Your President has assisted their highway robbery. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif </div></div>

Is there any industry in this country that you don't hate? You think the oil companies are corrupt. You think the insurance industry is corrupt. You think the healthcare industry is corrupt. You think Wal-Mart is corrupt.

In your opinion, is anybody out there doing a good job, other than the Democrats?

Steve

Alfie
04-19-2008, 03:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there any industry in this country that you don't hate? You think the oil companies are corrupt. You think the insurance industry is corrupt. You think the healthcare industry is corrupt. You think Wal-Mart is corrupt.

In your opinion, is anybody out there doing a good job, other than the Democrats?</div></div>They're corrupt, too. America is corrupt.

LWW
04-20-2008, 07:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">them's a whole lot of suppositions....it hasn't happened yet in other countries. </div></div>
Absolutely false.

People are coming the US from Canada in cases where they would be dead if they waited long enough to see a "FREE" specialist.

In the UK medical care is often held back from the elderly.

Many treatments are not given to people over 55.

I understand I am piston in the wind here as the general thought of this forum is "ALL HAIL THE NANNYSTATE" and if we HAD national health care in the US and these atrocities were being committed each and every one of the resident ninnyhammers here would be blaming Bush.

Don't waste your breath, we all know it's true.

LWW

LWW
04-20-2008, 07:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The Government isn't in the way of the highway robbery that is presently going on in the corrupt health care insurance industry, nor of other arms of health care service. Your President has assisted their highway robbery. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif </div></div>

Is there any industry in this country that you don't hate? You think the oil companies are corrupt. You think the insurance industry is corrupt. You think the healthcare industry is corrupt. You think Wal-Mart is corrupt.

In your opinion, is anybody out there doing a good job, other than the Democrats?

Steve </div></div>
They are only corrupt as long as B-B-B-BOOOOSH! is in office.

LWW

DickLeonard
04-20-2008, 12:22 PM
Eg8r hopefully that room will be availale in January or by the middle of February when we get rid of the Cowshit from the former occupant.####

DickLeonard
04-20-2008, 12:26 PM
LWW no company has done more to destroy American Industries and Promote shipping our jobs to China than Wal-Mart. ####

sack316
04-20-2008, 03:25 PM
True as that may be, does any company give as many Americans jobs as wal-mart does? I'm not gonna go into the whole "is wally world good or evil" thing, but it sure is easy to pick on wal-mart and point out any of the number of bad things that is percieved in the cooperation, but in the interest of fairness--- rarely does anybody point out any of the good things. Such as the little energy crisis going on, and their proactive stance on increasing their shipping fuel efficiency and power sucked up by the stores. But then again I suppose it makes for much more interesting stories and debate to harp on negatives than it is to acknowledge any positives.

And the sad thing is that IF Wal-Mart were to fix all the complains against them (rapid growth, poor employee benefits, diversity issues, outsourcing jobs and buying cheap goods from other countries, etc. etc.) they would likely then go under because we wouldn't support them any longer without their low costs of goods... everyone would just complain about how high the prices are then. And then we'd just blame the right somehow for the 1.6 million extra people looking for jobs and even shorter buying power of a dollar. **sigh**

Again, I won't say they are good or evil... but it sure is a clear cut example of us wanting everything both ways

Sack

Gayle in MD
04-21-2008, 10:16 AM
BWA HA HA HA...one thing about you, Ed, your delusional state remains the same.

Socialism is what you brand anything that does not support the Republican War Machine. If Americans get any benefit, then You're against it. I suppose when your own family's health care is being paid for, by the War Machine, You'll be comfortable with McCain's promised 100 years war, even if our others must die to pay for it.

When Hospitals are charging $250.00 for an asperin, and only the rich can afford health care, I'd hardly call a program that does what every other peace loving nation does for it's citizens, socialism. Even though I know you'd much prefer fascism, I certainly don't think an employees of the wealthy military Industrial Complex, could be unbiased.

Oh, and as for the bedroom in the White House, China own's it, noThey bought it from your boy Bush.

eg8r
04-21-2008, 12:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Socialism is what you brand anything that does not support the Republican War Machine. </div></div> The dictionary has a pic of hillary's ugly mug right next to the word socialist.

eg8r

pooltchr
04-21-2008, 06:00 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
When Hospitals are charging $250.00 for an asperin, </div></div>

It's because so many people go to the emergency room for their healthcare, since they know they can't get turned down even if they have no intention of ever paying for the service. It takes money to pay for all the medical equipment and staff to run a hospital. Those who can pay, end up paying for those who won't. That's the way socialism works. Take from those who have worked hard to get ahead, and give it to those who prefer to get handouts.
Steve

eg8r
04-22-2008, 06:56 AM
You and the Chinese must be sharing notes.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
04-23-2008, 07:05 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is best for Government to stay out of the way. </div></div>

LOL, spoken like a true Bushite, only staying out of the way of countries that are stealing from us, isn't a good policy, any more so than staying out of the way of corporations who poison AMericans, or staying out of the way of illegal Sliens, or staying out of the way of Big Oil while they gouge us at the gas pumps. As long as your governemtn is doing NOTHING to solve the problems that Americans are facing, you're happy. In spite of the overwhelming evidence of the deline of America, directly resulting from Republican policies, you'd prefer Bush raping AMericans for the benefit of his rich oil friends, and his corrupt Military Industrial Complex, but then, you're on their payroll, right? I'm sure you, along with all the Generals who are for this war, and collecting money on their connections and investments in the war profiteering facist nation that bush and Republicans have created, all have health care equal to yours, while the blood of our troops is still flowing on the other side of the world, for nothing.

Your such a genius.

Gayle in MD
04-23-2008, 07:24 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It's because so many people go to the emergency room for their healthcare, since they know they can't get turned down even if they have no intention of ever paying for the service. <span style="color: #000066">And just who was it that created the Amnesty for illegal aliens? </span> It takes money to pay for all the medical equipment and staff to run a hospital. <span style="color: #000066">And also it takes Tax dollars to pay for the subsidies Bush has provided for the Pharmecuetical Industry, and prices don't decline when a President blocks us from buying drugs from those companies from which we can get a better price, in other countries. </span> Those who can pay, end up paying for those who won't. <span style="color: #000066">Again, thank you George Bush and ronald Reagan, who put cheap labor for their corporate fascist friends in front of abiding by our immigration laws, and paving the way for the biggest foreign illegal occupation this country has ever witnessed.</span> That's the way socialism works. <span style="color: #000066">No, that's the way fascism works, loads of money in the hands of very few, and the resulting loss of privacy, freedom, safety, and power for we the people. </span> Take from those who have worked hard to get ahead, and give it to those who prefer to get handouts. [color:#000066 LOL, no take money from honest hard working AMericans, and launch wars so that your corporate friends can make money off the deaths of the children of the middle class. We spend more money on defense than anything else, and more than any country. China is and has been bilking us left and right. We have spent billions over the years, under Republican Administrations, financing terrorists, and dictators, who practice inhumane activities against their own citizens. You are so afraid that some of our tax dollars might just go to helping Americans, instead of to the wealthiest among us, or re=build our own infrastructure of our own country, or the future of our own children, or AMericans who have been cheated by corrupt corporations, free to do as they please compliments of the Republican Mantra, remove all comsummer protections, suspend any government regulations that protect AMericans, you are blinded by this BS about socialism, when the problems all come from Republican policies. Corporations do not regulate themselves in terms of paying their fair share of taxes, or in terms of poisoning the water, air, and people of this country. Do you ever think about all the AMericans who are dumped by these corporations, right before they are to achieve enough time with the company to recieve their retirement? If you would worry a little more about what they rich are doing to the rest of us, and a little less about some hungry kids getting a mouthful of food, you'd be a bit more believable. Instead, you refuse to draw a line from the Republican Policies, and the devastating results to the rest of AMericans, who do work hard, and pay their taxes, while the rich hide their money in the Carribbean, and dont' pay any taxes.[/color]
Steve
</div></div>

Gayle in MD
04-23-2008, 07:28 AM
Sack,
The costs that communities suffer from Wal-Mart dumping their underpayed Employees on the rest of us to provide the health care that Walmart refuses to pay for their own employees, along with their imports from China, a country which is cheating us and greatly responsible for our Trade Deficits, the biggest in history, are never discussed by the right. Why is that?

Gayle in Md.

sack316
04-23-2008, 11:47 AM
Gayle,
If I'm not mistaken (which I in fact may be) but I believe we have had discussions on this board in which both right and left have taken their shots at Wal-Mart. I too admit they are not without their wrong doing by any means... but rare is the case where any good is pointed out.

Nor is the fact that retail is a consumer driven industry in the first place. Wal-Mart went along with the whole "buy American Made" push some years back... WE let that fizzle out via our insatiable desire to find a bargain. I don't personally like Wal-Mart's impact of Anytown USA's Ma And Pa stores shutting down, but if the community took a stand and was willing to support ol' Mom And Pop, that wouldn't be happening anyway

Indeed China is cheating us, and we allow it. And again, if I'm not mistaken, The beginning of China's rise in imorts to the US came in the 1990's... a key factor also signed in 1999 was their WTO deal. The idea of which was to allow easier exporting for US goods to China, but I think it has become abundantly clear that the opposite effect has occured. Now let me think... who was in the White House then?

Their lower wages and benefits may be bad compared with the factory jobs lost due to imports. But apples to apples in the retail industry they are better paying than most other retailers. I know cashiers here who started out at $8.00/hr, compared to the $6.00 cashiers get at my store, or office depot, or Target, or wherever else around here. And as bad as the benefits are, they are at least offered some form of benefits... again slightly better than an apples to apples comparisson.

But any gripe we really have with Wal-Mart can't be placed on government, or Wal-Mart. I've gotta take responsibility when I decide it's easier to stop a few miles off the interstate late at night when I need something rather than waiting for morning and heading downtown. Or you do when you'd rather save an extra $20 bucks on your groceries rather than shopping at the local small grocery store. When the consumer decides to take it upon themselves to make a difference, that's when a difference will be made. Until then nobody should have any reasonable expectation that a company in their right minds would rather pay for the cost of goods sold here compared to the costs of those in China. Socially irresponsible? yes. but financially the inverse would be equally irresponsible from a business standpoint.

Sack

Gayle in MD
04-24-2008, 09:49 AM
Sack,
If you think that Bill Clinton would have borrowed us into trillions of debt with China, or allowed them to cheat us on the global market, then I'm sorry, but you weren't paying much attention to the things he did while he ran this country.

NAFTA gained interest during reagan's administration, and was already underway during Bush I's administration. No policy is so perfect that it shouldn't be appraised and checked for it's efficiency throughout the life of the policy. No president has cleared the way for China to cheat us except George Bush. George Bush has borrowed more money than all previous administrations combined.

As for Walmart, I don't understand why it's a good organization, except if Hillary is on the board? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Walmart costs a lot of communities a lot of money when their employess go to the emergency room, and don't pay their bills. this is how they hurt us. They do not provide a decent health care plan for their employees, and they import loads of products from a country which is cheating us into this big trade deficit we're carrying.

At some point, America is going to have to build manufacturing jobs back into our economy. We are too much at risk, when you think that we couldn't even build enough airplanes, quickly enough, to defend our country from invasion.

Instead of subsidizing OIL, we hould have subsidized the automobile industry while they geared up to produce automobiles that met with higher cafe' standards. Instead, we got secret energy meetings by Cheney, a cut in the already existing cafe' standards, by Bush, and EXXON admits they have done absolutely nothing to refine more oil. The energy hedge funders are making billions, Oil is enjoying huge PROFIT MARGINS, this administration's policies hurt middle class Americans, and this president won't even admit that this country is in a recession!

OMG, how many more days before we can drive these Republicans out of office. I am sick to death of all this BS about tax cuts. You can't build a solid economy on debt. That's the bottom line. AND, you can't cut taxes and launch a war, and pay for all of it by borrowing from communist countries, without putting the entire country at risk.

If the right can't see the damage we've inherited from this corrupt administration, they are certainly in the minority. The vast majority of AMericans can see it, and they're going to take a stand. The right will go out and vote for a man who has already admitted he doesn't know sheeite about economics, and thinks we're winning in Iraq.

And, I'm the one with my head in the sand! BWA HA HA HA...

WE are the only industrialized country without a universal health care plan. It's just a shame that we have a few people in our society that are thrilled when we're spending all our dollars on corporate greed, corporate subsidies, huge corporate tax cuts, bombs, killing, and debt, but any help for American citizens is socialism.

Half the kids east of the Mississippi go to bed hungry, while George Bush builds Vaticans in the Middle east, and REpublicans are ready to go out there and vote for his intellectual TWIN!

Thank heaven 80% of us in this country have seen through this corrupt party.
Sack, I'm, not aiming any of this at you, personally, but some others on this board are plain old blind.

Love,
Gayle

eg8r
04-24-2008, 03:44 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Walmart costs a lot of communities a lot of money when their employess go to the emergency room, and don't pay their bills. this is how they hurt us. </div></div> Gayle continue to ignore the fact that they provided a place of employment for these people. Walmart should just close up all their stores and move overseas that way we would not have the random incident where an injured employee gets stuck with the bill. I am pretty certain you will never check to see if Walmart rectified the situation because then that would remove a pellet from your arsenal against big business.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
04-26-2008, 08:30 AM
I'm not against business, or government, Ed, I'm against the Republican policies, started by Ronald Reagan, and followed by both Bush,s, that take away workers rights in this country of our, and in the case of both Bush's, favor war in the Middle East, and the military Industrial Complex, as a way to drive up oil prices, and drive up our deficits.

I think there is ample evidence of all the damage our country has suffered from Republican led Government. You, Steve, and a few others here, belong to the right wing democrat hating, socialist spewing, uninformed right wing. You believe everything that the right puts out there, and you do no research at all to learn what is really going on. You yap and yap about redistribution of wealth, and socialism, but you have no problem when the government takes you tax dollars and gives them to the wealthy.

Steve gets on here yapping about his vast knowledge of economics, and it's basuically a joke. the Oil Industry has recorded the greatest profits ever in history, and he wants to talk about Profit margins, vs. Profit. BWA HA HA HA....

Hey, Cheney kept those meetings secret for a reason. Any of you brilliant economists on here want to risk an opinion why he went all the way to the supreme court to keep them that way?


We've known for fifty years that dependence on foreign oil was a problem, and would lead to economic strife, and wars with those who had more oil than we do. All Goerge Bush has done is put off taking action to correct this dependency for eight years.

You folks from the right want to believe that the fact that all those Republicans mentioned above were working in the oil industry, has nothing to do with our present oil prices, and war in Iraq, had nothing to do with driving up their revenues, and that any money spent to help AMericans amounts to socialism, but as long as we're doleing out money to big oil, Iraq, and the military industrial complex, you're happy.

Well look where we are now. You can get on here and bash the very people who predicted this mess, but the bottom line, is that while you and Steve have every right to your opinions, don't expect me to sit up and listen when you are the ones who defended Bush, and his policies, for years, and while the vast majority of AMericans now see what a lying piece of **** George Bush is, and his entire cabinet, you want his twin in the White House.

The AMerican Worker has been under the attack of Republicans for decades, and it started with REagan's attack on our unions, and his amnesty policy. Most people know that REpublican these days, and the Neocon war mongers, are for big money, and wars. If a Democrat had run up all this debt, you righties would be smearing the hell out of them.

Go put your heads back in that sand hole. Twelve billion dollars a month, for people who hate us, and no good has come from it. Bush has weakened our country, and strengthened our enemies, and you're all ready to go back out there and vote for the man who is standing up for his failed polcies. You're NUTS!

Frankly, I never read any post from you that adds any information to the discussion, or provides any proof. For all the sarcasm the oozes out of both you and steve, I'm not one of the dummies here who voted for George Bush. You guys don't read, don't watch C-Span, and basically close your eyes to all the facts, and accuse others of doing what you do. All I can say is that neither of you hold any credibility with me.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
04-26-2008, 08:42 AM
Sack,
All I can say is, it isn't easy, but I make every effort to buy American made products. That has been my mantra since way back in the late sixties.

Now that gas is so high, all that driving around looking for products made here is more expensive than ever. If I can't find it made here, I don't buy it.

Believe me, my supermarket probably wishes I'd shop somewhere else. I will not eat food from China, Mexico, or Asia, or any other country. I make them tell me where all of it is from.

I realize that there are parts from other countries in much of what we buy, and it is really hard to try to sty with my program, but there are AMerican Companies, that do play fair with their employees, and one can find them if one takes the time to look.

As far as health care, the health insurance and the insurance business in general, is corrupt. We pay for all this coverage, and just look what they did to those in the gulf region, when they lost their homes. They dump people when they get ill, after they have paid for coverage. There is a lot of corruption going on, and Republican policies, way back to Reagan, led the way to them.

Like my pool buddy said, who doesn't keep up with politics at all, "All I know is that when the Democrats are in there, I do better, and when the Republicans are in there, the rich get richer."

Corruption and greed are the forces that are burrying this country. Republicans are the biggest supporters of it. It isn't a matter of if, it's a matter of how much. This is the most corrupt administration in our history, and John McCain has voted to help them maintain their lies and their corrupt practices, and now that he has voted against providing decent help for our veterans, and supported torture, I personally, have lost all respect for him. All I have said is plainly evident, and very easily documented.

Gayle in Md,

eg8r
04-27-2008, 07:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not against business, or government, Ed...</div></div> If you really believe this you might want to read all the bs you have been typing for the past years and get a good laugh at the hypocrisy.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frankly, I never read any post from you that adds any information to the discussion, or provides any proof. </div></div>This is a funny statement from the only woman that believed that secretary was outed. Where was your proof there? Why did you withhold this "proof" from the authorities?

Gayle the queen sheep of the left. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

LWW
04-28-2008, 03:18 AM
If you want a good chuckle, go back to 2003 and read her wanting us to go get Saddam.

LWW