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Qtec
05-02-2008, 09:19 AM
Some here are under the impression that those collecting benefit are living on easy street.



I saw a video doc called "when I came home'. Its about an Iraq vet [suffering from PTSD- as most of them are] and his efforts to get help when he gets back to the states.[ try and find a link for you]. link (http://whenicamehome.com/)
Here is another clip along the same lines.
link (http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-974249342506127537&q=%22when+i+came+home%22&total=337&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1&hl=nl)

How GW can say he supports the troops I don't know.

Q.............and the rich complain because they pay the most taxes..................!

Deeman3
05-02-2008, 09:29 AM
The balance of the fair share of taxes has little to do with the suffering of a veteran because the government did not take proper care of him/her upon their return.

The rich don't complain becuase they pay the most taxes, they mostly complain over the waste and usage of the taxes thay already pay combined with efforts to push that margin even higher. The point many of us make is that we have plenty of tax revenue already, it is irresponsible spending by those governing us that is corrupt, wasteful and usedmostly for political gain in stead of real help for deserving citizens. Par tof the waste is in the military but most in political pandering to those who pay no taxes and demand more services while "deserving" all the trappings of those earned by others through hard work, saving and innovation.

The mosre this system is implemented, the more socialist we become. One day, we will achieve a successful socialist society where everyone "deserves" everything but no one will have to produce to earn it. Call me crazy, but I don't see how that works outside the democratic platform.

Bobbyrx
05-02-2008, 09:53 AM
The government has recieved record high tax revenues under Bush but also record high spending which to me is the worst of his many faults. I'm really not surprised vets have a tough time getting all their medical benefits (and have for years and years)....what do you expect from government run health care....but it will be better for Joe Public.....right

LWW
05-02-2008, 09:53 AM
Don't confuse Q with reality.

LWW

Qtec
05-02-2008, 10:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The balance of the fair share of taxes has little to do with the suffering of a veteran because the government did not take proper care of him/her upon their return.</div></div>

Iagree. I never said it did.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rich don't complain becuase they pay the most taxes, they mostly complain over the waste and usage of the taxes thay already pay combined with efforts to push that margin even higher.</div></div>

Deeman, they are the ones making huge amounts of money because of the present system. Most of the Arms Industry has the the USA as it biggest/only client. Everything dollar they make is a tax dollar. Paid for by all the US citizens.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The point many of us make is that we have plenty of tax revenue already, it is irresponsible spending by those governing us that is corrupt, wasteful and usedmostly for political gain in stead of real help for deserving citizens. Par tof the waste is in the military but most in political pandering to those who pay no taxes and demand more services while "deserving" all the trappings of those earned by others through hard work, saving and innovation.</div></div>

Watch the video Deeman.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The more this system is implemented, the more socialist we become. One day, we will achieve a successful socialist society where everyone "deserves" everything but no one will have to produce to earn it. Call me crazy, but I don't see how that works outside the democratic platform. </div></div>

OMG. Food stamps will lead to communism! LOL

GW gave billions to the top 1% [ his base..LOL] in tax cuts and he borrowed billions to do it. All I,m saying is that money could have been better spent?


Q

Bobbyrx
05-02-2008, 12:08 PM
Exactly how many billion did he "give" to the top 1 percent?

Deeman3
05-02-2008, 12:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec [/quote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

OMG. Food stamps will lead to communism! LOL


Q </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF6600"> and I never said that....

If you believe I am only talking about food stamps, you are not listening. We have entitlements stacked on top of entitlements most of which are only proping up the ability of the recipents to ask for more. This has become a cauldron of the populations that say they want good jobs and opportunity. Given that, we get those same people who have abandoned school, spent generations on the street corner dealing dooe and believe they would be imposed on to show up at a company more than a couple of days a week. I see this rather than just read about it.

Now as a manufacturer, I have to compete with countries and societies that value work and self improvement. Tulips pretty much grow on their own, we have to have intellegent and competent workers to survive here to provide either weapons or social instruments. I am not against reasonable spending on either one.

While it may be true that there is waste in our military spending much like waste in our social spending, your parents probabaly never comnplained about those dollars as they were liberated from the Germans and your grandchildren won't complain after the Ilamic state you are going to be shortly bred into requires those grandaughters to wear Burkas and face Mecca and knel several times a day. However, by then the freedom of speech you now so richly enjoy will be long gone and as will any thoughts of a socialized system in your country.</span>

Qtec
05-03-2008, 08:58 AM
Deeman, you have totally ignored my post and its links. You seem to have no comment on the cases described on the video.
You hang on to the stereotype classic GOP scrounger example,ie someone who intends to live their whole life at the cost of the state. These people, although they do exist, are a very small % of those who need assistance.
The shame is that these people in my post[ the Iraq vets] believed the 'we support the troops' rhetoric. They actually believed that their service to their country would be appreciated and that they would not be abandoned when they came home.
How wrong they were.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> While it may be true that there is waste in our military spending much like waste in our social spending, your parents probabaly never comnplained about those dollars as they were liberated from the Germans</div></div>

OMG, not the 'we saved you ass' story again.
BTW, If it wasn't for the French the US Rev would have failed, so I guess America owe's its entire existance to them.

Sure, the US came to war and it was necessary but they took their time about it. Millions were already dead before the US 'came to the rescue'.



Q

Sid_Vicious
05-03-2008, 05:59 PM
"Deeman, you have totally ignored my post and its links. You seem to have no comment on the cases described on the video."

What's new, from someone financially rewarded by the system. P!ss poor as far as humanity and real concern for the future. It is sad that ANYONE won't listen and take all of the facts, when so much is at stake. Why don't you at least look at the links Dee? Seriously. sid

Qtec
05-03-2008, 08:34 PM
Did you watch the video?
If you did you would know that getting money or help from the Govt is no easy task. The Iraq vet spent 10 months living in his car!

Q

Bobbyrx
05-04-2008, 09:46 AM
Then why are we supposed to be for a government run healthcare system?

eg8r
05-04-2008, 09:10 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some here are under the impression that those collecting benefit are living on easy street.</div></div>Who exactly has said this?

eg8r

Deeman3
05-05-2008, 07:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you watch the video?
If you did you would know that getting money or help from the Govt is no easy task. The Iraq vet spent 10 months living in his car!

Q

</div></div>

Yes, I watched the video. It is much the same as you said earlier, there are cases that are disgraces for abuse of the system and those will make headlines. There are more, if not many more, of abuses of the system. The government has done a piss poor job of taking care of some veterans and a much poorer job of protecting our investments in welfare.

What I have said is there is room to curb these abuses while taking care of real needs. If you want to know about social welfare systems, take a trip to one of our hundreds of casinos and see what is there, blowing the very money we spend for their care.

Gayle in MD
05-05-2008, 08:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and I never said that....

If you believe I am only talking about food stamps, you are not listening. We have entitlements stacked on top of entitlements most of which are only proping up the ability of the recipents to ask for more. <span style="color: #000066">What do you consider thirty billion dollars to bail out Bears and sterns? Is that entitlement? Did they play any role in getting into the mess they got into? Does the thirty billion they got, from us. encourage them to do better, and stop asking for more? </span> This has become a cauldron of the populations that say they want good jobs and opportunity. <span style="color: #000066">How do you connect these two "Populations"? We all want good jobs and opportunity for our country, do we not? </span> Given that, we get those same people who have abandoned school, <span style="color: #000066">Again, how do you account for calling them "Those same people" and manage to lump those Americans who want good jobs and opportunity with drop out druggies? The only thing that stood between George Bush and his becomoming a drop out druggie on the street was his dada, and his dada's money and influence, for example. </span> spent generations on the street corner dealing dooe and believe they would be imposed on to show up at a company more than a couple of days a week. I see this rather than just read about it. <span style="color: #000066">We all see those unfortunate segments of our society, but few are reasoned enough to take into account the differences between their respective plights, versus the advantages of the children of the filthy rich, although we all know quite well, that just like our president, they too do drugs, and they too live lives of lazy weaknesses, but have no concerns about where their next meal will come from while they're partying their asses off. The whole point of fighting poverty, through educational assistance, and food programs, is that society is better off as a whole when it endeavors to offer programs to those disadvantaged citizens who are either born into poverty, or end up there, sometimes through no fault of their own. I find it amazing how often these individuals are lumped together are freeloading druggies by the Christian right, for example, and how seldom I read any evidence of empathy from those from the right, who supposedly are among the most generous among us...</span>

Now as a manufacturer, I have to compete with countries and societies that value work and self improvement. Tulips pretty much grow on their own, <span style="color: #000066">OMG, Deeman, everything eats tulips! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif </span> we have to have intellegent and competent workers to survive here to provide either weapons or social instruments. I am not against reasonable spending on either one. <span style="color: #000066">But, are you against providing tax breaks for those corporations which send jobs out of the country, and keep their profits off shore? Do not their CEO's enjoy multi million dollar retirement packages? Do they not take advantage of deferred income loopholes? </span>

While it may be true that there is waste in our military spending much like waste in our social spending, <span style="color: #000066">LOL, our military spending is nearlty half of the expenditure. Which spending comprises the greatest waste? </span> your parents probabaly never comnplained about those dollars as they were liberated from the Germans <span style="color: #000066">That's a low blow, dirty pool, as they say. </span> and your grandchildren won't complain after the Ilamic state you are going to be shortly bred into requires those grandaughters to wear Burkas and face Mecca and knel several times a day. <span style="color: #000066">Wow, talk about a broad leap! Hey, Deeman, while it is true that the world is much disadvantaged by Bush's foreign policy which as increased terrorist attacks, and allowed al Qaeda to expand, I hardly thing there is any country which they are about to take over other than Pakistan, or possibly Afghanistan, the area which Bush abandoned in order to increase the oil profits of big oil by destablizing the entire middle east!! Believe me, bin Laden isn't worried about being captured as long as his families best friends are in the White House. </span> However, by then the freedom of speech you now so richly enjoy will be long gone and as will any thoughts of a socialized system in your country. <span style="color: #000066">Like our freedom of speech hasn't been degraded over the past eight years? Ask Joe Wilson about that...

</span>
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Deeman3
05-05-2008, 09:10 AM
Q,

I am not for the bailouts of the companies any more than the bailout of people who continue to make bad choices. Certainly there is ground between caring for people who are, indeed, less fortunate and a complete giveaway to anyone who prefers to loaf rather than work.

Now, if we can only convert tulips into ethenoyl, we will be all set.

Gayle in MD
05-05-2008, 09:17 AM
Don't mention tulips to me! The deer ate all four hundred of my tulips the morning I left to buy the pepper spray! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

Do they have deer in Holland?

Deeman3
05-05-2008, 12:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't mention tulips to me! The deer ate all four hundred of my tulips the morning I left to buy the pepper spray! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

Do they have deer in Holland? </div></div>

LOL, I'm not sure if they have deer but they are crazy drunk with sheep. bicycles, canals, drawbridges and sheep. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Gayle, git them varmits!

eg8r
05-05-2008, 02:14 PM
Hey q, where is your answer? You started your thread with the stupid statement so I thought you would be quick to give us some examples.

eg8r