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dr_dave
05-05-2008, 05:16 PM
FYI, I just posted a bunch of new NV and HSV online demonstration videos. Tom Ross and I filmed most of these together.

Here they are:

NV B.15 - End-of-game frozen reverse bank shot offensive option (http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-15.htm)

NV B.16 - End-of-game frozen 3-rail two-way shot option (http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-16.htm)

NV B.17 - Double-kiss bank shot examples with Tom Ross (http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-17.htm)

NV B.18 - Kick shot cue ball hold shot example with Tom Ross (http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-18.htm)

HSV B.10 - MOFUDAT stroke drill follow and draw effects (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-10.htm)

HSV B.11 - one-pocket "beat-the-kiss" frozen rail cross-corner bank shot (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-11.htm)

HSV B.12 - beating a scratch by bouncing the cue ball off the rear rim of a pocket (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-12.htm)

HSV B.13 - level cue follow shot hop over stacks of coins (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-13.htm)

HSV B.14 - jump shot tip, ball, cloth, slate interaction, with and without a spare piece of cloth (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-14.htm)

HSV B.15 - straight-on kick shot rebound losses and spin changes for roll, stun, and draw shots (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-15.htm)

I hope you enjoy them.

Regards,
Dave

JoeW
05-05-2008, 05:37 PM
Thanks Dave, There is some good information here and the slow mo helps to make the point. I wish I could slow a lot of shots down as they are very instructive when seen this way.

dr_dave
05-05-2008, 05:44 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Dave, There is some good information here and the slow mo helps to make the point. I wish I could slow a lot of shots down as they are very instructive when seen this way. </div></div>Thanks Joe. In the past, I never mixed regular video with super-slow-motion video. Now, I can't imagine anything else. I agree that seeing both is very instructional.

Regards,
Dave

PS: Do you plan to post the Pool IQ stats soon? I added some more data recently.

Bambu
05-05-2008, 07:01 PM
Nice job Dave. I especially like the beat the scratch in the side pocket shot(B12). Dunno about the percentages, but it looked pretty anyway. Did you get any attempts to pop straight out off the top rubber, rather than rim out like a basketball? Just wondering, thanks.

JoeW
05-05-2008, 08:03 PM
Currently there are 10 submissions and 7 individuals who have submitted scores. I have some league data from friends but not enough to publish as it currently stands. From these few scores with league data and the current submissions it would apear that PQ will do what it was designed to do. The dispersion is reasonable and it would appear that APA BCA players with 6- 7 handicaps are scoring in the 20s. The test is a little more difficult than I expected. Reliability appears to be good and the scoring will be useful. Now if I could only get more people to submit scores.

The semester just ended here at YSU and I have some work to do around the house. After that I expect that I will go to a few pool halls in the area and see if I can get the sample size up before I publish. Over the summer I hope to collect more but will have to see what transpires.

Apparently, based on very few submissions and some testing of friends, PQ will be a useful test.

PlayersChoiceSTL
05-05-2008, 08:52 PM
Thanks, Dave...these are really interesting! Great tip on banking frozen balls.

Joe, where can I find out more about what stats you are looking for? I collect stats from my team and may be able to easily incorporate what you need.

dr_dave
05-05-2008, 10:50 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bambu</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Nice job Dave. I especially like the beat the scratch in the side pocket shot(B12). Dunno about the percentages, but it looked pretty anyway. Did you get any attempts to pop straight out off the top rubber, rather than rim out like a basketball? Just wondering, thanks. </div></div>Actually, we did this in one take. We were happy with the result, so we didn't do multiple attempts.

After filming for many hours straight, it is easy to lose focus and decide to move on. Now I wish we had done more takes.

Regards,
Dave

Bambu
05-06-2008, 01:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dr_dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bambu</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Nice job Dave. I especially like the beat the scratch in the side pocket shot(B12). Dunno about the percentages, but it looked pretty anyway. Did you get any attempts to pop straight out off the top rubber, rather than rim out like a basketball? Just wondering, thanks. </div></div>Actually, we did this in one take. We were happy with the result, so we didn't do multiple attempts.

After filming for many hours straight, it is easy to lose focus and decide to move on. Now I wish we had done more takes.

Regards,
Dave</div></div>

Thanks anyway Dave, maybe next time.

Bambu
05-06-2008, 01:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Currently there are 10 submissions and 7 individuals who have submitted scores. I have some league data from friends but not enough to publish as it currently stands. From these few scores with league data and the current submissions it would apear that PQ will do what it was designed to do. The dispersion is reasonable and it would appear that APA BCA players with 6- 7 handicaps are scoring in the 20s. The test is a little more difficult than I expected. Reliability appears to be good and the scoring will be useful. Now if I could only get more people to submit scores.

The semester just ended here at YSU and I have some work to do around the house. After that I expect that I will go to a few pool halls in the area and see if I can get the sample size up before I publish. Over the summer I hope to collect more but will have to see what transpires.

Apparently, based on very few submissions and some testing of friends, PQ will be a useful test.</div></div>

Joe, I wouldnt mind participating in your test. It should prove useful to see where I score low(not that I cant think of anything). I hope its shorter than the PAT test though. That test looked like murder just to understand it!

JoeW
05-06-2008, 05:21 AM
Sorry Dave if I hijacked your thread a little.

To those who are willing to submit scores, please go to Pocket Billiards Review (Use the link in my signture). Select PQ from the menu shown at the top of the screen. The test is described and can be down loaded. It takes about 40 minutes to complete (an hour with a warm up).

Thanks for helping, submissions are needed.

dr_dave
05-06-2008, 07:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry Dave if I hijacked your thread a little.</div></div>Joe,

This doesn't bother me one bit. I support your PQ test and hope more people give it a try.

Regards,
Dave

Eric.
05-06-2008, 09:17 AM
HSV B.15 - straight-on kick shot rebound losses and spin changes for roll, stun, and draw shots

That last vid was really informative for me. I liked seeing, in slow mo, how the cb reacts off the rail. This gives me a better understanding of whats going on and can be applied to certain shots like a kick, where you want the CB to stop, when the OB is a few inches off the rail (to use an example).

Persoanlly, I don't think the "beat the scratch" shot is reliable enough to use on a GC or Diamond table. This might be a shot that only works well on certain home/recreational grade tables/pockets.


Eric

wolfdancer
05-06-2008, 02:40 PM
Mo Fu Dat.......is this ghetto language?????
Thanks Dr. D. for the vids...good stuff as usual

Vapros
05-07-2008, 07:56 AM
Thanks for some very good stuff. Now I have a question. I play with a couple of pretty good players who are quite successful in stopping the cue ball after a kick, but I'm sure they are hitting it with draw. Is there an explanation for this, or am I seeing things? This was not covered in your video. I would like to see what happens to that shot coming off the rail. Thanks.

Deeman3
05-07-2008, 08:02 AM
Nice work. It would be nice to have slo mo's of some of the "impossible" bank shots that Freddy the Beard has in his work or some of the old Eddie Taylor banks.

Eric.
05-07-2008, 08:12 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice work. It would be nice to have slo mo's of some of the "impossible" bank shots that Freddy the Beard has in his work or some of the old Eddie Taylor banks. </div></div>

I'll second this. I'd love to see what the balls are doing on shots that don't seem likely to go.


Eric

Eric.
05-07-2008, 08:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vapros</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for some very good stuff. Now I have a question. I play with a couple of pretty good players who are quite successful in stopping the cue ball after a kick, but I'm sure they are hitting it with draw. Is there an explanation for this, or am I seeing things? This was not covered in your video. I would like to see what happens to that shot coming off the rail. Thanks. </div></div>

VApros, thats why I liked the last vid in the series(in my previous post on this thread). It does show why a kick can stop dead. In the vid, it states that a CB hit with draw will stun off the rail longer than if it was hit another way. What that means in real life application is that if you are trying to freeze the CB on a kick, and you know that the OB is close enough to the rail that you can stun the CB, then all you need to do is to concentrate on hitting the OB full and the CB should stop (due to having no spin or roll on it).


Eric

wolfdancer
05-07-2008, 09:28 AM
Joe, I'll give it a try...I wonder though if people are somewhat reluctant to send you the results, because their scores may not measure up? I know if I posted an online video of myself shooting pool....you'd never see a missed shot. lol I'd be only fooling myself though. I don't mind submitting a low score, if that's what I'd get....it would give me a reference point to improve upon.

Vapros
05-07-2008, 09:32 AM
. . . . meaning that the shot in video 18 can be played either way, with the same result?

BigRigTom
05-07-2008, 09:42 AM
These videos are really eye openers!
It totally destroys some of my understanding (or mis-understandings) of the effects of hitting the rail 1st so I have to really practice some of these things.....especially as they relate to a kick safe.

GREAT WORK Dr. Dave...as we have come to expect.

dr_dave
05-07-2008, 09:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HSV B.15 - straight-on kick shot rebound losses and spin changes for roll, stun, and draw shots (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-15.htm)

That last vid was really informative for me. I liked seeing, in slow mo, how the cb reacts off the rail. This gives me a better understanding of whats going on and can be applied to certain shots like a kick, where you want the CB to stop, when the OB is a few inches off the rail (to use an example).</div></div>Agreed. Here is an example:
NV B.18 - Kick shot cue ball hold shot example with Tom Ross (http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-18.htm)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Persoanlly, I don't think the "beat the scratch" shot is reliable enough to use on a GC or Diamond table. This might be a shot that only works well on certain home/recreational grade tables/pockets.</div></div>The table is the video is a Connelly. Every once in a while the pockets will reject a ball even without ball hop. I actually saw this in a televised match once (on a Connelly table). Not exactly good marketing for Connelly, was it?

Tom and I tried really hard to recreate and film "pocket rejection" with a normal shot, but we couldn't get it to happen no matter how hard we tried. I guess the pool gods are fickle.

Regards,
Dave

Bambu
05-07-2008, 10:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vapros</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> . . . . meaning that the shot in video 18 can be played either way, with the same result?</div></div>

I believe so, either way. A friend of mine and i had a similar discussion the other day. He said he used force follow to get the cue ball to stop dead on a kick, but I know draw works for me. I think with a full hit, either will work.

dr_dave
05-07-2008, 10:38 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mo Fu Dat.......is this ghetto language?????
Thanks Dr. D. for the vids...good stuff as usual </div></div>I'm from New Orleans originally. It sounds like a combination of muffaletta (as in the famous New Orleans sandwhich) and WhoDat (as if "Who Dat Sayin Dey Gonna Beat Them Saints ... Who Dat, Who Dat?").

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave
05-07-2008, 10:54 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vapros</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for some very good stuff. Now I have a question. I play with a couple of pretty good players who are quite successful in stopping the cue ball after a kick, but I'm sure they are hitting it with draw. Is there an explanation for this, or am I seeing things? This was not covered in your video. I would like to see what happens to that shot coming off the rail. Thanks. </div></div>See:

HSV B.15 - straight-on kick shot rebound losses and spin changes for roll, stun, and draw shots (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-15.htm).

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave
05-07-2008, 10:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice work.</div></div>Thanks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would be nice to have slo mo's of some of the "impossible" bank shots that Freddy the Beard has in his work or some of the old Eddie Taylor banks.</div></div>Good idea. I have Freddy's DVDs, but I haven't watched them yet. I'll try to watch them before my next video session next week.

Regards,
Dave

Eric.
05-07-2008, 11:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vapros</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> . . . . meaning that the shot in video 18 can be played either way, with the same result? </div></div>

Depends. If the OB is close to the rail, it shouldn't matter much. If the OB is a bit further away, then you might have to use (drag) draw, so the CB doenst pick up any roll. Thats teh value in that particular vid.


Eric

dr_dave
05-09-2008, 05:17 PM
FYI, here's a new clip I forgot to include with the original bunch:

HSV B.16 - classic "passing lane" trick shot with Tom Ross (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-16.htm)

Enjoy,
Dave

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dr_dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FYI, I just posted a bunch of new NV and HSV online demonstration videos. Tom Ross and I filmed most of these together.

Here they are:

NV B.15 - End-of-game frozen reverse bank shot offensive option (http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-15.htm)

NV B.16 - End-of-game frozen 3-rail two-way shot option (http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-16.htm)

NV B.17 - Double-kiss bank shot examples with Tom Ross (http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-17.htm)

NV B.18 - Kick shot cue ball hold shot example with Tom Ross (http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-18.htm)

HSV B.10 - MOFUDAT stroke drill follow and draw effects (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-10.htm)

HSV B.11 - one-pocket "beat-the-kiss" frozen rail cross-corner bank shot (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-11.htm)

HSV B.12 - beating a scratch by bouncing the cue ball off the rear rim of a pocket (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-12.htm)

HSV B.13 - level cue follow shot hop over stacks of coins (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-13.htm)

HSV B.14 - jump shot tip, ball, cloth, slate interaction, with and without a spare piece of cloth (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-14.htm)

HSV B.15 - straight-on kick shot rebound losses and spin changes for roll, stun, and draw shots (http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-15.htm)

I hope you enjoy them.

Regards,
Dave </div></div>

1Time
05-10-2008, 10:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dr_dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FYI, I just posted a bunch of new NV and HSV online demonstration videos. </div></div>
I hope my past repeated suggestions for video helped.

dr_dave
05-10-2008, 07:20 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dr_dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FYI, I just posted a bunch of new NV and HSV online demonstration videos. </div></div>
I hope my past repeated suggestions for video helped. </div></div>I don't remember what your suggestions were. Did we cover them in this last set? If not, let me know if there is something you want to see. This offer is open to others also. I have another video session planned for this week.

Regards,
Dave

1Time
05-10-2008, 07:51 PM
No problem. People much prefer watching videos to reading. Posting videos that show what you often post about will make your site wildly popular.

Try putting together some videos that teach how to align the shooter and the shot, and the use of imagination and aiming techniques. That will better help the masses of newer players and grow the sport. It likely will help the more average players too. Videos of an experienced shooter executing various shots mostly benefits those who already shoot well.

JoeW
05-11-2008, 08:12 AM
If you have the time I would like to see:

1. How kicks shots come off the rail for aiming purposes. They are very difficult to determine and very few people can execute them accurately. There must be some reason for this and Slow-mo might help one learn to estimate better.

2.The different amounts of throw based on cut angle, perhaps with reference to a chalk line on the table. I think that the efect of throw is immediate and it would be interesting to see how the OB's line of travel is changed. I have seen various drawings by different authors but these are not as instructive as an actual slow-mo video.

dr_dave
05-11-2008, 11:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No problem. People much prefer watching videos to reading.</div></div>Filming the videos is also more fun than writing. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Posting videos that show what you often post about will make your site wildly popular.

Try putting together some videos that teach how to align the shooter and the shot, and the use of imagination and aiming techniques. That will better help the masses of newer players and grow the sport. It likely will help the more average players too. Videos of an experienced shooter executing various shots mostly benefits those who already shoot well. </div></div>Excellent suggestions. Thanks. I'll try to include new clips on more fundamental stuff in the future; but for now, my list still contains a lot more of the more advanced stuff.

Catch you later,
Dave

dr_dave
05-11-2008, 11:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have the time I would like to see:

1. How kicks shots come off the rail for aiming purposes. They are very difficult to determine and very few people can execute them accurately. There must be some reason for this and Slow-mo might help one learn to estimate better.</div></div>I do have a kick and bank effects overview video planned for this week's session.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2.The different amounts of throw based on cut angle, perhaps with reference to a chalk line on the table. I think that the efect of throw is immediate and it would be interesting to see how the OB's line of travel is changed. I have seen various drawings by different authors but these are not as instructive as an actual slow-mo video. </div></div>I do have lots of illustrations, examples, and video links in my August '06 through July '07 articles (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/index.html), but I'll try to put together a video showing various types of shots with overlay graphics this week.

Thank you for the suggestions,
Dave