PDA

View Full Version : who was and who is the best?



dave666
05-11-2008, 12:38 PM
i was just wondering who everyone thought was the best of all time, and why. there are alot of people that will bring up some players that i and alot of other players may not have heard of. if they are still playing please tell us where they play at. let's try to get these players together. that's what we all want to see.

Deeman3
05-12-2008, 10:28 AM
This is a big arguing point but anyone's opinion is just about as valuable as anyone elses.

The best I have ever seen at the top fop their games were:

Earl Strickland in nine ball

Efren Reyes in One Pocket

Steve Miserack in straight pool

Sang Lee in 3 cushion

Steve Davis in snooker

I know there were maybe better players but these are the ones, I saw at the top of their game and were almost unbeatable at their peak.

bmccaslin
05-12-2008, 01:00 PM
Good answers Deeman; from what I've either seen or read, here are my candidates for each category:

9-Ball - Johnny Archer (player of the decade in the 90's)

8-Ball - Efren Reyes because he is able to win consistently without a break like a lot of the other pros have

Straight Pool - Irving Crane (won world titles in 5 different decades of his life)

One Pocket - Efren Reyes (I haven't seen much One Pocket in my time though; this is based on Derby City titles)

3 Cushion - Raymond Ceulemans (35 World Championship titles, 48 European titles and 61 national titles, a feat probably not matched by any one team or person ever)

Snooker - Ronnie O'Sullivan (Steve Davis is definitely more consistent, but when Ronnie wants to play, no one in the world can beat him)

Deeman3
05-12-2008, 01:59 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bmccaslin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good answers Deeman; from what I've either seen or read, here are my candidates for each category:

9-Ball - Johnny Archer (player of the decade in the 90's)
<span style="color: #CC0000">I thought Johnny was good and consistent but Earl was the best i have seen at the top of his game. </span>

8-Ball - Efren Reyes because he is able to win consistently without a break like a lot of the other pros have <span style="color: #CC0000">I can't argue with you there. </span>

Straight Pool - Irving Crane (won world titles in 5 different decades of his life) <span style="color: #CC0000">
Of the old guys, I have to give it to Mosconi (15 Titles) but I never saw him play. </span>

One Pocket - Efren Reyes (I haven't seen much One Pocket in my time though; this is based on Derby City titles)

3 Cushion - Raymond Ceulemans (35 World Championship titles, 48 European titles and 61 national titles, a feat probably not matched by any one team or person ever) <span style="color: #CC0000">

I did get to see him play in Belgium but he was past his prime. He was certainly one of the nicest gentlemen I ever met. </span>

Snooker - Ronnie O'Sullivan (Steve Davis is definitely more consistent, but when Ronnie wants to play, no one in the world can beat him) </div></div>
<span style="color: #CC0000">This is the one I almost picked myself and I did see both play. I just gave it to Steve as, like you said, he was unbelievably consistent. Steve "Interesting" Davis. What a disciplined player? </span>

Eric.
05-13-2008, 09:03 AM
Rudy "Minnesota Fats" Wanderone. Just ask him ;-)


Eric &gt;R.I.P.

Rail Rat
05-14-2008, 12:42 PM
Interesting post, I've often wondered who is the Tiger Woods of pool.

All things considered (different tables, cloth, and balls,) my hat goes off to Mosconi.

I saw him play back in 63, he was out of his prime then but still awesome. He had a smooth even stroke and a tremendous command of the table. No body will ever come close to his 526 in pool despite the smaller table he did it on. Plus his 150 in the 14-1 championships was the first ever.

He was no slouch in 9 ball either and few dared trying him on his home turf in Jersey.

He also gave us the Mosconi Cup and was first to publish comprehensive pool playing books that were considered the bibles of pool playing.

All top players look awesome when they are on their game but Willie's legasy stands out more I think than any other player.

Deeman3
05-14-2008, 03:58 PM
I guess it's hard to argue against Mosconi but, as I neve rsaw him play, I am not sure. I have seen, a half dozen times, players who looked so good and played so well, I would have thought they could never have lost. Of course, they all eventually do.

I would have to guess that Efren is the best in all games that I have seen on more than a few occasions. I think he's the only player in my lifetime that completely changed the way a whole generation thought about the game and the possibility of shots.

Rail Rat
05-14-2008, 06:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess it's hard to argue against Mosconi but, as I neve rsaw him play, I am not sure. I have seen, a half dozen times, players who looked so good and played so well, I would have thought they could never have lost. Of course, they all eventually do.

I would have to guess that Efren is the best in all games that I have seen on more than a few occasions. I think he's the only player in my lifetime that completely changed the way a whole generation thought about the game and the possibility of shots. </div></div>

When I saw Willy play I was just 18 and easily impressed but that man sure had class and style, it was easy to make him my idol.

It's difficult to say who's the best shot maker, honestly I don't think that's possible, Hendry, Davis were amazing when they first started, but then I saw Whirlwind Jimmy White run a table without even aiming, he was so good its scary. I guess it all comes down to their impact on the game and Efren has certainly done that. He's the man right now.

bataisbest
05-14-2008, 09:19 PM
EFREN -the Ali,Tiger Woods, and Michael Jordan of pool in my opinion

eb_in_nc
05-15-2008, 06:33 AM
Let's not forget people like (machine gun) Lou Butera. Here you can see him run several racks on Mizerak. His cue ball positioning was excellent and even when he was not happy with his shot and how he left it, he made the small corrections necessary to finish the rack and leave the break ball where it needed to be left.

Machine Gun Lou (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg9NYHs8RNg)

Rich R.
05-15-2008, 07:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eb_in_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's not forget people like (machine gun) Lou Butera. Here you can see him run several racks on Mizerak. His cue ball positioning was excellent and even when he was not happy with his shot and how he left it, he made the small corrections necessary to finish the rack and leave the break ball where it needed to be left.

Machine Gun Lou (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg9NYHs8RNg) </div></div>
I worked for Lou in 1969-70. He was definitely equal to any of the big name players at the time. You also have to keep in mind, unlike many of the road players, Lou had a big family and he was always running a business. I can tell you first hand, he didn't practice a lot. However, when he did get to the table to practice, he ran balls with the best of them. He is also one of the best guys you would ever want to know. He is a real class act.

eb_in_nc
05-15-2008, 07:39 AM
Rich, correct, he was not one of the lime-lighters like Mosconi or Mizerak, but he was a great nevertheless. You are very lucky to have known him personally and to have experienced seeing him shoot during his hay-day. I read somewhere that he ran 150 balls against Allen Hopkins in just 21 minutes, hence his nickname machine gun Lou.

Eric B.

SKennedy
05-15-2008, 02:52 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess it's hard to argue against Mosconi but, as I neve rsaw him play, I am not sure. I have seen, a half dozen times, players who looked so good and played so well, I would have thought they could never have lost. Of course, they all eventually do.

I would have to guess that Efren is the best in all games that I have seen on more than a few occasions. I think he's the only player in my lifetime that completely changed the way a whole generation thought about the game and the possibility of shots. </div></div>

I think the old timers would argue with most of us.......my grandfather (born in 1911), who saw all the greats in his lifetime play (including Mosconi, Fats, etc.) told me the best, by far, player he ever saw was an unknown wino in Tuscon, Arizona. When he had enough money to last him in wine for a nice period of time he would disappear, and then return when his wine money ran out or was running out! Now, he could have been senile when he told me this, but he was typically not a man to exagerate and was darn decent on a pool table himself.

Bob_Jewett
05-15-2008, 06:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave666</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i was just wondering who everyone thought was the best of all time, and why. there are alot of people that will bring up some players that i and alot of other players may not have heard of. if they are still playing please tell us where they play at. let's try to get these players together. that's what we all want to see. </div></div>
If you want to see the current top players all playing together, I think you would have to offer prize funds like the IPT.

Those who know nothing about the old-time players may want to start by reviewing the stories of the Hall of Fame members at http://home.bca-pool.com where there is brief information on people like Alfredo de Oro, who won more championships than Mosconi, and Jake Schaefer Sr. and Jr. who changed the game by playing it too well. Missing from that list are many who should be included on the all-time list of top players like Francois Mingaud, John Roberts (Sr. and Jr.), Walter Lindrum and maybe some of the onepocket.org HOF members.

Rich R.
05-16-2008, 07:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eb_in_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rich, correct, he was not one of the lime-lighters like Mosconi or Mizerak, but he was a great nevertheless. You are very lucky to have known him personally and to have experienced seeing him shoot during his hay-day. I read somewhere that he ran 150 balls against Allen Hopkins in just 21 minutes, hence his nickname machine gun Lou.

Eric B. </div></div>
Eric, Lou was definitely one of the best and would not take a back seat to any of the other greats. He played as good as any of them.

I am very lucky to have known Lou. Hanging around his pool room and working for Lou were some of the best days of my life. He is a great guy and he could tell some stories. On the rare occassion that he practiced, it was an honor just to watch. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

IIRC, he had the nickname of "Machine Gun" before the run against Hopkins, but that run is a world record.

Deeman3
05-16-2008, 09:11 AM
Rich,

Doesn't Lou have a son that played on tour for a while. Lou seemed almost impatient having to wait for the cue ball to stop before his next shot. A very skilled player.

Rich R.
05-16-2008, 12:42 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rich,

Doesn't Lou have a son that played on tour for a while. Lou seemed almost impatient having to wait for the cue ball to stop before his next shot. A very skilled player. </div></div>
Lou's son Sal plays very well and has played, and continues to play, in pro tournaments. IIRC, he played in all of the IPT tournaments.

IIRC, Sal is currently on the west coast, but I could be wrong about that. I only met Sal as a very young boy, so I can't tell you any more about him. I am sure he wouldn't remember me.

As far as Lou goes, he was definitely impatient waiting for the cue ball to stop. Most of the time, he was set and ready to go, before the cue ball was ready.

SKennedy
05-16-2008, 02:28 PM
Any of you watching ESPN Classic, which is showing Classic Billiards? Cranfield, Puckett, Mosconi, Crane, etc. They are playing 7-ball and 9-ball.

Deeman3
05-16-2008, 03:18 PM
Steve,

I DVD them but after having seen them for the 50th time, I don't watch them much. It's still that as usual, trick shot magic or WPBA repeats. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

Rich R.
05-16-2008, 09:31 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve,

I DVD them but after having seen them for the 50th time, I don't watch them much. It's still that as usual, trick shot magic or WPBA repeats. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif </div></div>
About a week ago, ESPN Classic showed an old straight pool match between Luther Lassiter and Cicero Murphy. Wimpy won his third world championship in this match.
I have to assume it was from the vaults of the old Wide World of Sports show. They hacked it up and only showed about 30 minutes of the 150 point match, but it was still great seeing the old masters in their prime.
I hope they show more of these old matches, from their archives.

Rail Rat
05-17-2008, 02:09 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eb_in_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's not forget people like (machine gun) Lou Butera. Here you can see him run several racks on Mizerak. His cue ball positioning was excellent and even when he was not happy with his shot and how he left it, he made the small corrections necessary to finish the rack and leave the break ball where it needed to be left.

Machine Gun Lou (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg9NYHs8RNg) </div></div>

We have a player up here nick named Machine Gun Luc Salvas. To watch the guy play is like watching a camera on fast forward!

Rich R.
05-17-2008, 05:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rail Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eb_in_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's not forget people like (machine gun) Lou Butera. Here you can see him run several racks on Mizerak. His cue ball positioning was excellent and even when he was not happy with his shot and how he left it, he made the small corrections necessary to finish the rack and leave the break ball where it needed to be left.

Machine Gun Lou (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg9NYHs8RNg) </div></div>

We have a player up here nick named Machine Gun Luc Salvas. To watch the guy play is like watching a camera on fast forward! </div></div>
I have seen Luc Salvas play many times. Believe it or not, Luc plays slow compared to Lou Butera in his prime. Butera also had better mechanics, while playing fast. Luc is a great player, and he definitely plays fast, but he doesn't always have the best mechanics and, IMHO, he misses some shots because of that. Lou Butera had great mechanics, at high speed.

Rail Rat
05-18-2008, 10:22 AM
Unfortunarely I never saw Lou play. As mentioned it's to bad that we don't have films of the old time players.

Many have wondered that if Luc ever slowed down he might be a better player. It's really frustrating to see him rush a shot thats testy, miss it, and then lose a match he had in the bag.

Rich R.
05-18-2008, 07:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rail Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Many have wondered that if Luc ever slowed down he might be a better player. It's really frustrating to see him rush a shot thats testy, miss it, and then lose a match he had in the bag. </div></div>
From the first time I saw Luc play, I have always thought that he would be better if he slowed down. I have seen him rush easy shots and miss. I have also seen him make, what I believe to be, bad decisions at the table. I would love to see him slow down a little, but it may not be in his nature.

Bambu
05-19-2008, 08:52 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SKennedy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any of you watching ESPN Classic, which is showing Classic Billiards? Cranfield, Puckett, Mosconi, Crane, etc. They are playing 7-ball and 9-ball.</div></div>

I have, and it makes me not look forward to getting old. Those guys must have played 10 times better. Still, its great to get to see them play. I just wish the matches were filmed during their better days.
I notice that the 9 ball was blue in some matches, but today its yellow. The 7 ball rules are weird too, having sort of a 1 pocket ending to it. And how the hell did minnesota fats play almost upright? I guess I just like listening to him talk anyway, Fats was king of the shark moves.
And what about ralph greenleaf? Anyone ever see him play, even on film? I would have thought he'd garnish quite a few votes for the all time list. Quote from wikipedia: His obituary in The New York Times said of Greenleaf, in March 1950: "What Babe Ruth did for baseball, Dempsey did for fighting, Tilden did for tennis...Greenleaf did for pocket billiards."

Rail Rat
05-19-2008, 10:27 AM
We don't get the Espn classics up here. Wish we did.

Greenleaf of course is a giant of the game. Unfortunately for him, I guess, is that he's from a time In the 20's and 30's when pool took on a bad name. We were into prohibition... bars, dance halls and pool halls were seen as dens of eniquity. There were no films of pool or anything. I think Willy did a lot to bring it out of that period (despite that Dizney scene in Pinocchio) and helped to give it a better name. Willy himself said Ralph was the greatest player ever.

Rules seemed to variy all over the map back then. I've played in back water pool halls in small towns that still had screwy local versions of 8Ball.

Deeman3
05-19-2008, 02:00 PM
Most of them were well past their prime and playing games most of them didn't even take that serioulsy in their prime. Fats always shot standing straight up, 7 ball was come up with for that event by Alan Hopkins and the referee and have had many rules variations over the years.

Our own Dick Leonard can tell you all about Greenleaf and the other greats as he was playing in NY at the time and saw them all play.

9ball4ever
05-19-2008, 04:29 PM
A friend of mine, who is a little older now, in his prime gave Steve Mizerak the 7 on Steve's home table and won $4,700 playing $100 a game!! He stayed with me for a few months when I used to live in Germany and I got a chance to see him play. Even though his eyes were giving him problems he had incredible cue ball control and he knew more about 9 ball than anyone I have ever met. His name: Toby Sweet. In the 70's most people considered him to be the best. He is a true gentleman and it is a pleasure to watch him play!!!

Deeman3
05-20-2008, 07:10 AM
Toby played well and could beat a lot to top players for a while there. He played real well one handed as well if I recall correctly.

DickLeonard
05-20-2008, 03:49 PM
Deeman I will try to reply to as many as I can. I played Willie Mosconi in the room I ran in Troy. He beat me 200 to 138 and in the evening he ran 169 and out and stopped. He had to get to New Jersey the next day. A great shooter and a very smooth slip stroke.

I played Joe Balsis in a new room in Hudson and beat him 200 to 130. In that game I ran four fifties, the first three fifties I missed after Cueball Kelly anounced lets give him a round of applause for fifty balls. Joe was my favorite player, he was always a Gentleman.

I played Toby Sweet nineball in Troy losing three- sixty. He put nine nineballs in on the break. I put three balls in on the break.

I played Lou Butera in the 1967 US Open. I missed and 5 minutes later I was down 93 balls. That screws up your rythymn. He beat Irving Crane 150 to 0 in 23 minutes. In other words that could be shown on a half hour show with 8 minutes of ads. I have to run I will continue tomorrow.####

Bambu
05-20-2008, 04:26 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most of them were well past their prime and playing games most of them didn't even take that serioulsy in their prime. Fats always shot standing straight up, 7 ball was come up with for that event by Alan Hopkins and the referee and have had many rules variations over the years.

Our own Dick Leonard can tell you all about Greenleaf and the other greats as he was playing in NY at the time and saw them all play.</div></div>

Thanks Railrat, and no doubt, Dee. Dick has plenty of great memories to talk about. Always a pleasure to read about the old greats.

Rail Rat
05-20-2008, 06:34 PM
Its enjoyable to hear the stories from players who have actually been there. If Rich or any others know of some books out there on these stories I'd Love to find some.

Hope to read some more here from Dick and the others. Keep'em coming!
-Rail Rat.

DickLeonard
05-21-2008, 06:16 AM
Deeman I have heard that Toby is now an Artist in Florida with his paintings in demand. ####

DickLeonard
05-21-2008, 06:40 AM
Babe Cranfield was in a class by himself when it came to practicing. He would run balls by the hours. One fellow that would watch him at the Holiday Bowl in Syracuse would bet he would run 200 everyday he played. He claimed a 760 high run and a 400+ on a 5x10 in an exhibition at a private club.

Ralph Greenleaf was married to a women from the Troy area. He would spend his summers there. The fellow that ran the the poolrooom in Troy where he played while in the area said he thought he should miss.

He booked him for an exhibition and he came drunk. He ran 125 and out, put on his trick shots and was gone in one hour.

For Eric Minnesota Fats was the Best Entertainer of all the Poolplayers. I'll be back.####

Deeman3
05-21-2008, 07:11 AM
Dick,

Thanks. That is funny. If they had Lou on TV now, they wouldn't have to shorten the number of racks to get it all in... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sounds like Mr. Greenleaf could put them away, both drinks and ball, pretty quickly himself.

Thanks for sharing this with us.

Bambu
05-21-2008, 08:06 AM
Here is a rare clip of greenleaf, its pretty cool.

http://www.webcastr.com/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=27&task=videodirectlink&id=2685

Deeman3
05-21-2008, 09:16 AM
Bambu,

Thanks, some of the same trick shots they shoot today. How about the neat double breasted suit and the slicked back hair? Much more formal attire back then, huh?

Those old clay balls moved around funny didn't they?

hondo
05-21-2008, 01:50 PM
For years, overall, I thought Mosconi was the best til
I actually saw Reyes play.
There is no question in my mind that Reyes is the best ever.
Future of pool may be SVB.

hondo
05-21-2008, 01:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bmccaslin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good answers Deeman; from what I've either seen or read, here are my candidates for each category:

9-Ball - Johnny Archer (player of the decade in the 90's)

8-Ball - Efren Reyes because he is able to win consistently without a break like a lot of the other pros have

Straight Pool - Irving Crane (won world titles in 5 different decades of his life)

One Pocket - Efren Reyes (I haven't seen much One Pocket in my time though; this is based on Derby City titles)

3 Cushion - Raymond Ceulemans (35 World Championship titles, 48 European titles and 61 national titles, a feat probably not matched by any one team or person ever)

Snooker - Ronnie O'Sullivan (Steve Davis is definitely more consistent, but when Ronnie wants to play, no one in the world can beat him) </div></div>

Straight pool had to be Mosconi although I was a big Irving Crane fan.
I always heard Lassiter was the man in 9 ball.
He was pretty old when I finally saw him play.
Two best 9 ball players I ever saw were Reyes & Mike Sigel.
One pocket by far Reyes.
Straight pool I always heard Willie Hoppe.

hondo
05-21-2008, 02:03 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SKennedy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any of you watching ESPN Classic, which is showing Classic Billiards? Cranfield, Puckett, Mosconi, Crane, etc. They are playing 7-ball and 9-ball. </div></div>

I remember watching it live in the early 70s. All of those
guys were well past their prime except for Crane.
A couple, Balsis and Puckett, had slipped badly.
Even then Mosconi kicked everybody's butt.

hondo
05-21-2008, 02:06 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bambu</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SKennedy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any of you watching ESPN Classic, which is showing Classic Billiards? Cranfield, Puckett, Mosconi, Crane, etc. They are playing 7-ball and 9-ball.</div></div>

I have, and it makes me not look forward to getting old. Those guys must have played 10 times better. Still, its great to get to see them play. I just wish the matches were filmed during their better days.
I notice that the 9 ball was blue in some matches, but today its yellow. The 7 ball rules are weird too, having sort of a 1 pocket ending to it. And how the hell did minnesota fats play almost upright? I guess I just like listening to him talk anyway, Fats was king of the shark moves.
And what about ralph greenleaf? Anyone ever see him play, even on film? I would have thought he'd garnish quite a few votes for the all time list. Quote from wikipedia: His obituary in The New York Times said of Greenleaf, in March 1950: "What Babe Ruth did for baseball, Dempsey did for fighting, Tilden did for tennis...Greenleaf did for pocket billiards." </div></div>

Most of the real old timers would tell you Greenleaf was the best before he drank himself to death.

Bambu
05-21-2008, 03:57 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bambu,

Thanks, some of the same trick shots they shoot today. How about the neat double breasted suit and the slicked back hair? Much more formal attire back then, huh?

Those old clay balls moved around funny didn't they?</div></div>

Indeed. I heard the chipping was so bad back then, they had to use a special "mud" ball to break with. Its a shame all the talent of their generation failed to plant better seeds for the game. Even if gambling strangled pool a bit, I dont see why its ok in our society to lose all your money on lotto, vegas, or OTB....but not pool. Is it that uncle sam doesnt get his cut? Maybe so.

hondo
05-21-2008, 05:29 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bambu</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bambu,

Thanks, some of the same trick shots they shoot today. How about the neat double breasted suit and the slicked back hair? Much more formal attire back then, huh?

Those old clay balls moved around funny didn't they?</div></div>

Indeed. I heard the chipping was so bad back then, they had to use a special "mud" ball to break with. Its a shame all the talent of their generation failed to plant better seeds for the game. Even if gambling strangled pool a bit, I dont see why its ok in our society to lose all your money on lotto, vegas, or OTB....but not pool. Is it that uncle sam doesnt get his cut? Maybe so. </div></div>

I agree, Bambu.
It's funny. I know guys who would quit after losing $5 to me shooting pool but then go back and drop
$500 in the poker machines without even blinking. Strange.

Bambu
05-21-2008, 07:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bambu</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bambu,

Thanks, some of the same trick shots they shoot today. How about the neat double breasted suit and the slicked back hair? Much more formal attire back then, huh?

Those old clay balls moved around funny didn't they?</div></div>

Indeed. I heard the chipping was so bad back then, they had to use a special "mud" ball to break with. Its a shame all the talent of their generation failed to plant better seeds for the game. Even if gambling strangled pool a bit, I dont see why its ok in our society to lose all your money on lotto, vegas, or OTB....but not pool. Is it that uncle sam doesnt get his cut? Maybe so. </div></div>

I agree, Bambu.
It's funny. I know guys who would quit after losing $5 to me shooting pool but then go back and drop
$500 in the poker machines without even blinking. Strange.</div></div>

I have seen a few of those in my time as well, hondo. They just dont want to give you the satisfaction of beating them. And if their confidence is that low, may as well play joker poker anyway.

DickLeonard
05-22-2008, 08:54 AM
SKenedy Don Willis who traveled with Jimmy Moore and Luther Lassiter told me that in his mind Scarface Al was the best straight poolplayer. Why do you say that Don? Because every time he played the last game for all the cash he ran out.

Now try to find out who Scarface was. Tip he was from Utica New York. Andrew St Jean was another player whose behavior kept him from playing in tournaments.####

HALHOULE
05-22-2008, 10:33 AM
IT IS BEST TO DEVELOP YOUR OWN STYLE OF PLAYING. ALL THE OLD TIMERS ARE DECEASED BY NOW, SO IT IS A MOOT POINT TO YACK ABOUT PLAYERS STYLES FROM SEVENTY OR EIGHTY YEARS AGO. I WAS BORN 1924, AND BEGAN PLAYING AT THE AGE OF TEN. WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE ME OR ANYONE ELSE.

DickLeonard
05-22-2008, 04:26 PM
Hal nice to see your still posting. I have never learned your aiming secret. I know your willing to teach it,preach it. I need a cornea operation first before I put it to use. Maybe the newcomers would be interested in learning it too.

If your not up to it I'll look it up in your old posts. Dick

hondo
05-22-2008, 04:26 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HALHOULE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I WAS BORN 1924, AND BEGAN PLAYING AT THE AGE OF TEN. WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE ME OR ANYONE ELSE. </div></div>

I don't know where it leaves anybody else but it leaves you in your mid-80s. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

DickLeonard
05-22-2008, 05:09 PM
Deeman I always felt that the referees aided and abetted Lou Butera by their racking the balls as fast as they could and get out of his way and then take their sweet time when racking for his opponents.

Some players take their time cleaning their shafts, chalking their tips etc. and others are straining at the bit for the ref to get out of the way.####

Deeman3
05-23-2008, 12:14 PM
Dick,

I always fell into the middle of the time thing. I used to tend to shot too quickly but stalling didn't help me wither. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

I played Luc Salvas a couple of years ago and would rush, myself, while racking for him. He still looked impatient when I was doing that! I flet he played too fast and even missed a couple of easy positions not taking his time but he still plays good at any speed. I never played Lou in a tournament but his fast play looked more natural to him than Luc's did to me.
As well, Lu was always impecably dressed wiht highly shined shoes, looked like a mobster on occasion. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

DickLeonard
05-24-2008, 02:09 PM
bataisbest except that Tiger and Michael made their fellowman millionaires. Efron can't make the IPT pay their bills. ####

DickLeonard
05-27-2008, 10:25 AM
Bataisbest even Willie Mosconi had to admit that he never made as much money till Minnesota Fats came along. With his bragging and TV shows etc. It was a short lived day in the sun for PoolPlayers.####

Rail Rat
05-28-2008, 10:25 AM
I have never seen Luc Salvas play in person but watching him over the years and discussing his style with some of the vets up here, the concensus is he plays fast to get by his nerves and play into his groove which is pure instinct.

When he has to play slow, (for instance when they play Scotch pool with the states) he really struggles, you can see his confidence fail him when he can't control the pace.

Rail Rat

Rival Crown
06-18-2008, 06:17 PM
back to this topic. I'm certain that EFREN REYES is indeed a living legend, and I wanna say, the best who's ever held a cue, in cue sports. Aside with him, Strickland, I have a lot of respect for him, tho I hate his behaviour, and Archer. Those are some of my top favorite, best players I think out there. I got respect for Mosconi, and I'm sure a 'fantasy match' would be him at his prime, versus Reyes at his prime. lol. what a "what if" battle.

mike60
06-18-2008, 07:02 PM
Willie was from South Philadelphia. We used to go to his place and watch him play.

mike60

dave666
07-22-2008, 01:36 PM
wow! i do not know many of the players mentioned. it is great to know that the sport of billiards is so interesting

mike60
07-22-2008, 11:20 PM
Cicero Murphy.


mike60

Deeman3
07-23-2008, 12:37 PM
When I first saw Earl play he was about 21 years old. I did not know how he would ever lose a match if he played that well over time and for many years it seemed he always would. I kinda had that feeling with Efren when I saw him play one pocket. Siegel was very tough in his prime and many have jumped up there for a year or two and looked unstoppable. I still have to say that Earl was the best offensive nine ball player when he was on of anyone I ever saw. He would drive in hard shots at blinding spped like they were hangers. Efren just played shots and position I could not imagine.

JWasson
07-25-2008, 10:35 AM
One of the most impressive shots I know of isn't even a guy but a chick. I'm a pretty big fan of Ewa Mataya Laurance. She can do some pretty amazing things with a cue and some balls. Admitted on at least one occasion that she had learned a trick or two from Minnesota Fats, but I felt obliged to add here to this list for discussion purposes. If nothing else, she has made great strides in what outside people think of our sport. She's been a positive impact and isn't hard on the eyes either. so there you have it, I'd like to add the Striking Viking to the list mentioned here.

MAC
07-25-2008, 11:10 AM
Saw her over the weekend on ESPN in the Trick shot World Cup. Europe kick USA pretty hard in the rear. She displayed some phenominal trick shots and I agree she is very deserving to be on this list.

JWasson
07-28-2008, 10:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For years, overall, I thought Mosconi was the best til
I actually saw Reyes play.
There is no question in my mind that Reyes is the best ever.
Future of pool may be SVB. </div></div>
In my opinion, I think Efren could hold his own with pretty much anyone that ever played the game. He's consistant too. There were a lot of players that shot amazing pool for periods of time, but Efren does it all the time. That's MHO

Rail Rat
07-28-2008, 05:00 PM
I always enjoy coming back and reading this thread as it evokes a lot of thought on this game and the impact the great players have made on pool over the years.

Joe made an interesting analysis on Earl the Pearl in another thread from a psychological standpoint. Basically he described in detail the mentality and aggressiveness of a classic hustler.

Somehow I like the guy, even after he made an ass of himself at the Masconi Cup. If Willy was alive he would have thrown him out. But when it comes down to having a beer with a player and talking pool, Iíd much rather do that with a player like Reyes. But if Earl was in town you can bet he would be a bigger draw, itís the hustler that gives this game its color and appeal.

Looking back over all the greats, I still like Willy, but I never saw Lou or Mike Siegal play. Fats gave a lot to pool we canít deny that, although he was more legend than reality.

I would like to find some videos of an early Earl playing Mike the Mouth in his prime. It would be an interesting match up of aggressive styles.

Its interesting that early videos of Earl show a more mannered player. It seems it's in his later days with his game faltering that he has turned to this "anything to win" strategy.

brad

Deeman3
07-29-2008, 07:58 AM
Brad,

Willy had plenty of blow ups himself so he might not be the best one to police Earl. I think that Earl was so good and played the game so well that when his game was not up to his expectations, it bothered him more than the normal player who might have more than pool in their lives. Although his latter antics has been shameful on occasion, you can't forget how good he was, for so long.

Rail Rat
07-29-2008, 12:00 PM
I really don't know that much about Willy, I guess I placed too much admiration on him from the one time I saw him in person.

I was told by one old timer that he once saw Willy throw his cue the length of the pool hall at some people who were talking loud during one of his exibitions. I don't know if that was true of course, but an interesting story.

Earl is getting worse and worse, I think you have a good point there, he was such a dominate player in pool, but now he just can't take a back seat and except it.

Its interesting also that his comments make no sense when he talks about his matches. He sounds like a beginning player sometimes instead of the master that he is. His interviews are almost comical with the interviewer becoming as befuddled as he is. -brad

Eric.
08-11-2008, 09:20 AM
Happy Birthday, Hal!


Eric