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View Full Version : FUNNY STORY! My Tim Scruggs Sneaky



Pool Coconut
05-20-2008, 01:55 PM
I had, until recently, a mid eighties Tim Scruggs Sneaky Pete that hit like the ďhand of godĒ. Many of you players who play with Timís older cues know exactly what I am talking about. I mean this was a great cue, an extension of myself. I have owned many collectors cues but for the money I always played with my sneaky. It wasnít pretty but what a hit! I won tons of money through the years and even snapped off National APA 9-Ball championship in 2003. Top of the world I was.

After all this use its only shaft, which was made out of some of the most incredible wood, had lost a lot of its girth from constant play and conditioning. The cueís finish was also almost completely worn away from endless play. After talking with Mike Cochran in length I decided to send the cue back to Timís shop to be refinished and to have two new shafts built. We agreed that he would make the shafts from select hard wood similar to the other shaft so the hit would be nearly identical. Spare no expense.

When Tim received the cue his sidekick Mike Cochran emailed me and told me that there was a small crack in the wood on wood joint. I had never noticed this crack but he was the cue maker. He recommended changing the joint to a black phinalic and adding a butt plate and assured me that none of this would change the hit of the cue one bit. I was skeptical and called to discuss this with him, after a short discussion he convinced me that the hit would not change.

When I received the cue I drove to the pool room and tried to play with her. Let me tell you that this cue hit like big dog turds. I changed shafts and out popped another turd. I put on my old original shaft and it really started to stink up the room. The new joint & butt plate combination rendered the cue almost completely unplayable. I had a couple of the other local players hit a few balls and they couldnít believe how bad it hit. The balance was totally off and neither of the shafts that Mike and I talked about were made with high quality wood like we had agreed on. They were just standard shaft wood. I had a local cue maker look at the cue and he adjusted the weight but it didnít change the way it hit.

I asked Mike Cochran if they played with the cue before it was shipped and they said no. I have to ask you guys, who makes a product and doesnít test it? Who? Over the past few months I tried to get use to the cue and just couldnít. I finally gave up and was forced to sell my good friend to a nice fellow from Michigan who wanted to give it a try. Sadly in the end I had to take a loss on the cue.

Mike Cochran mislead me and took something away from me that was very important. I my opinion he molested my cue and offered me no compensation. I believe this guy shouldnít even be building cues if he canít refinish one properly. I suppose there is a market for cues that donít hit well because most of the newer players donít know how a cue is supposed to hit. That is a shame.

Buyer Beware! Be very careful who you do business with. I lost something that was very important to me because I trusted Mike Cochran and Tim Scruggs and my game has suffered greatly due to this. I am still searching for a replacement.

Mike
Baton Rouge, LA

Tony_in_MD
05-20-2008, 05:16 PM
You make two posts on this board and with this one you trash two of the most respected, and honest cue makers in the business?

Tell me, did you address your problems with the hit of the cue with Tim and Mike after you received it? Or do you first go on an internet forum and drop a turd of a story like this?

Does the cue have a rattle or something that leads you to believe that it was poorly constructed?

Please educate me on what the characteristics of a bad hitting cue is because barring a construction fault I really would like to hear what your definition of a good hit is.

I have owned a few Scruggs cues, sneakies, piloted steel, flat face 3/8 10, radials with ivory and steel joints, and have never hit with one that I did not like.

Pool Coconut
05-20-2008, 07:30 PM
I am not trashing anyone. I am certain that they both make fine cues. I know for a fact that Tim's older cues are the bomb. I am merely stating what happened to me in this instance, nothing more. I was mislead and that's basically it, I have clearly stated that.

To answer your question, the cue hit a certain way when I sent it to him and when it came back it didn't hit that way any longer. It hit very bad in my "humble" opinion... I think this is more to do with the changes made, odd shaft wood and balance being thrown off. I would go on to say a bad hit is anything other than what was promised. I sent a good hitting cue away and I was sent something entirely different back. I have owned several Scruggs cues and hit balls with at least 20 through the yeas and I have to say that some of them didn't suit me but many did. You must have been very lucky to never hit with one you did not like. Maybe I can purchase one of yours?

Tony_in_MD
05-20-2008, 08:52 PM
If your quote below is not trashing Mike, I don't know what is.

I would sell you one of mine but I am afraid nothing I have would meet your standard, since I am still unclear as to what you don't like about the hit of the cue now. I am also still sure, that you did not contact Tim or Mike about this after receiving your cue. Again, broacasting this crap on a pool forum, is not IMHO the way to do things.

Stand up, be a man and call Tim up. Discuss with him the problems you have. Don't hide behind a fake name in a pool forum.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pool Coconut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Mike Cochran mislead me and took something away from me that was very important. I my opinion he molested my cue and offered me no compensation. I believe this guy shouldnít even be building cues if he canít refinish one properly. I suppose there is a market for cues that donít hit well because most of the newer players donít know how a cue is supposed to hit. That is a shame.

Buyer Beware! Be very careful who you do business with. I lost something that was very important to me because I trusted Mike Cochran and Tim Scruggs and my game has suffered greatly due to this. I am still searching for a replacement.

Mike
Baton Rouge, LA

</div></div>

Rich R.
05-20-2008, 09:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pool Coconut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To answer your question, the cue hit a certain way when I sent it to him and when it came back it didn't hit that way any longer. It hit very bad in my "humble" opinion... I think this is more to do with the changes made, odd shaft wood and balance being thrown off. I would go on to say a bad hit is anything other than what was promised. I sent a good hitting cue away and I was sent something entirely different back. I have owned several Scruggs cues and hit balls with at least 20 through the yeas and I have to say that some of them didn't suit me but many did. You must have been very lucky to never hit with one you did not like. Maybe I can purchase one of yours? </div></div>

I would like to ask two questions.

First, your cue was very old. Are you aware that, in most cases, the shaft wood currently available isn't the same quality as the shaft wood available years ago? Mike may have given you the best shaft wood available, but it may not have been as good as what you had.

Second, is it possible that you had grown to love the old shaft, which had been worn thin over the years and no new, thicker, shaft would feel the same? Regardless of the cue maker or the shaft wood, it is possible that a new shaft would never feel the same.

Believe me, I feel for you. A similar thing happened to me. I had an old cue repaired and a new shaft made for it. Although the joint was repaired, no other refinishing was done, other than the new shaft. That cue never felt the same and I ended up retiring the cue. In my case, I think the main difference was the different quality shaft wood and it was no fault of the cue maker doing the repair.

Since you loved your sneaky so much, you may want to contact Bob Frey and get a new sneaky from him. Bob used to work for Tim Scruggs and chances are very good that he was the one who made it in the first place.
Keep in mind, you may never find another cue that will hit exactly the same as your old cue. Bob is good, but he doesn't work magic.

Pool Coconut
05-21-2008, 08:53 AM
Answer to first question: I know about the shaft woods and I have already addressed this in my post. Read it again... I know and work closely with several cue makers in the south. I am aware that there is still some old stock out there floating around. Basically money talks when it comes to this type shaft wood, you have to pay a premium. He assured me that the shaft wood I would be of the select type and as I stated before price was not a factor.

Answer to second question: I definately loved that old shaft and obviously the new types of shaft wood would not due. They just dont hit solid at all. The main problem with this is I couldn't even get the old cue to hit properly using my old shaft, which I was use to. This was obviously due to changed made to the cue. I was told that this would not happen. This is where I was mislead.

If you read the post again with an open mind you will understand that the cue itself was ruined. This is a fact and it has nothing to do with shafts. The shafts are a seperate issue all together. I am only stating facts, nothing more.....

To reply to your previous post. I already stated that Mike just got defensive when I wrote him about the problem and said that he would no longer respond to me. This tells me exactly where they stand. And BTW Mike answers all the emails and the phone so there is no way to contact Tim without going through him.

Tony_in_MD
05-21-2008, 04:04 PM
When I have been in their shop Tim has answered the phone and email. I think I will go to their shop on Saturday and get their side of this story. It seems only right that folks hear both sides. Besides I need to see if the refinish on my titlist is done anyway.

BTW please read your own posts carefully cause I don't see the part about him being defensive when you wrote about the problem.

This has been my point throughout the entire thread, work it out with the cue maker before making statements in forums.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pool Coconut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
To reply to your previous post. I already stated that Mike just got defensive when I wrote him about the problem and said that he would no longer respond to me. This tells me exactly where they stand. And BTW Mike answers all the emails and the phone so there is no way to contact Tim without going through him.
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Tony_in_MD
05-22-2008, 03:36 PM
I had several conversations with Mike Cochran today. Needless to say there is more to this story than Coconuts version.

I will be posting the rest of the story Saturday, stay tuned and get the popcorn ready.

cycopath
05-23-2008, 12:31 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pool Coconut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I won tons of money through the years and even snapped off National APA 9-Ball championship in 2003.</div></div>

I ain't callin' anybody out or anything but the APA site says you finished Runner up. I'm guessing thats you anyway. A Mike from Cajun Country. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Runner-Up - Mike Billodeaux, Shreveport, LA

Rich R.
05-23-2008, 06:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pool Coconut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you read the post again with an open mind you will understand that the cue itself was ruined. This is a fact and it has nothing to do with shafts. The shafts are a seperate issue all together. I am only stating facts, nothing more.....

To reply to your previous post. I already stated that Mike just got defensive when I wrote him about the problem and said that he would no longer respond to me. This tells me exactly where they stand. And BTW Mike answers all the emails and the phone so there is no way to contact Tim without going through him.
</div></div>
If you read my post again, I didn't suggest that you contact Tim, with or without Mike's involvement, although that wouldn't be a bad idea. I suggested that you contact Bob Frey. Maybe you should read that portion of my post again.

Tony_in_MD
05-24-2008, 08:14 AM
I am here in Tim Scruggs shop this morning with Mike Cochran and we are now going to present the facts about the work that Mike did on the cue owned by Mike Weeks aka "Pool Coconut".

Mike Weeks contacted Tims shop in 2007 to have his sneaky pete refinished and to have 2 new shafts made for the cue. As the condition of the shaft wood being important to Pool Coconut, Mike C. used the best shaftwood that he had available in his shop. This is the same shaftwood that Tim and Mike use on any custom cue that is produced in their shop. Pool Coconut also wanted a white but plate installed on the cue with the refinish. Upon recieving the cue Mike Cochran alerted Pool Coconut that there was a crack in the joint of the cue 3/8ths of an inch long. In order to make the shafts a fibre joint whould have to be installed. Pool Coconut asked if the hit would stay the same and Mike said yes, and still stands by that answer.

Mike cut him a great deal on a refinish, new butt plate and 2 new shafts because of the sad story they Pool Coconut in being a Katrina victim.

Pool Coconut recieves the cue July of 2007. Mike and Tim hear NOTHING from this man until the end of April 2008 after he sold the cue to a "friend". This is 9 months after the man recieves the cue.

He contacts the shop via email, and basically slams Mike because he is not happy with how the cue hits anymore. He states that Mike "molested" the cue. This is why Mike did not respond to first email. He has been makeing cues for over 23 years, and has built an impeccable reputation, amoung players and cue collecters. He never has had a situation like this or a customer that has responded in this way.

On May 20th Pool Coconut emails Tims shop again. Below is the actual email recieved and responded to by Mike Cochran on the 20th
_____________________________________________
"From: tim scruggs [mailto:qmaker@msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:32 AM
To: Mike Weeks
Subject: Re: Sneaky Pete


I am surprised you expected me to respond. I did my best for you and gave you a hell of a price break to boot. And then I get an email saying I molested your cue. Thanks a lot.

Mike Cochran

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Weeks

To: qmaker@msn.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:34 AM

Subject: Sneaky Pete

I am surprised that you didn't even have the decency to respond to my email. I will make sure that I post my story on every forum I can and I will make sure that the pool circuit in the Deep South know about this as well. Shame on you...

Mike Weeks
__________________________________________________ _______

The response by Mike Cochran prompts another email message a short time later below is the responses by both


"You say now to let you know, well I am letting you know. I let you know that I tried to make this cue work for me because it meant so much to me. When I decided it wouldn't work I let you know. I won't bother you any more if you do not wish to rectify the situation. I plan on drafting a letter to Tim and mailing it to his home so that I can be make sure he knows what's going on. I, I just can't have known Tim for many years and I have been a good customer see him not wanting me to be happy. I just can't believe that he would see things the same way.

On to post my stories about your work and the way you mislead me and ruined my cue. I believe potential customers will want to be armed with this information. Buyer Beware.."
-----------------------------------------------------------------

From: tim scruggs [mailto:qmaker@msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 12:53 PM
To: Mike Weeks
Subject: Re: Sneaky Pete

I will not respond anymore. All you had to do is give me a call when you were unhappy.

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Weeks

To: 'tim scruggs'

Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 1:46 PM

Subject: RE: Sneaky Pete

This is exactly the type of response that I thought I would get from you. Here are the facts. You said that the hit of the cue would not be changed and yet you completely changed it. What would you call that from a player's standpoint? How well do you play the game? I would assume that you play well since you are in the business so you know what I am talking about. I'm sorry that you don't like the expression "molested" but that is the only way I can describe what was done to this cue. It was real pretty the work you did but from a playability standpoint it got a zero. It may not have been worth much in your eyes but it was once had a world class hit. In the past I always bragged about it while playing many opponents and many of those players who tried it went on to purchase one of Tim's cues for themselves. Tim may remember all the cues he shipped to the Hammond, Ponchatoula and New Orleans area from 95-2005. I probably should have gotten an endorsement deal long ago, but that's another story. Many professionals hit a few balls with it and agreed that it had a hit like no other. I can't tell you how many times players tried to buy it from me. When I sent it to you all I wanted was for it to be refinished and have a few shafts built from "old stock wood" that would hit like the other shaft, like a rock. We discussed this and my preferences at the time. I prefer the type of wood that is coarsely grained and reserved for finicky players of my skill level. Price was never a determining factor. What I got back was worthless to me and the shaft wood was soft and not what I requested. Before you shipped the cue I asked if you shot with it and you replied "no". I should have known then that there was a problem. What type of cue maker would produce a cue and not play test it. It is a shame that Tim's legacy, at least in my mind, has met this fate.

Mike Weeks

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When I arrived at the shop this morning, I had Mike show me the black fibre ring that he uses for these pool repairs. This oversized ring weighs a tenth of an ounce. When finished on the cue, and noting that some wood would be taken away the changed weight at the front of the cue would be zero. The addition of a butt plate also does not change the weight or the balance point of the cue either.

Mike did replace the tip on the old shaft which could affect the hit.

Tim and Mike have always place customer satisfaction number one priorty. Mike told that he might have made you a new cue had you contacted them and they determined there was something wrong with the cue. Which Mike knows there was not.

Now Tony_in_MD gets to say what he wants to say.

Pool Coconut, you should have grown a set of balls 9 months ago when you recieved the refinished cue and it did not meet your satisfaction. Had you contacted Tims Shop then, they would have made good on the problems you had. You chose to hold the cue for 9th months, sell it, then slam Mike becuase you weren't happy the the "hit" of the cue because of the work he did on it.

Just to let you know Mike Weeks I will be linking this thread to other pool forums I particate in to let other cuemakers know that when dealing with you, it is "seller beware".

Personally I think this all came about because you sold the cue as you state "at a loss" and were looking for some compensation from them for the money you felt you lost on the cue deal.