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1Time
05-21-2008, 11:36 AM
We all know the tips we choose to use is a matter of personal preference. And so we often are encouraged to try different tips and use whatever tip we like. And, it seems the consensus is a hard tip is better for breaking and jumping. But that's not my question.

My question is this. When is a harder or softer tip the better choice for you on your regular shooting cue(s)/shaft(s), OR when may a harder or softer tip be a better choice for someone else?

Just looking for opinions, whether you use one cue, more than one shaft, or more than one cue, and whether you use tips of the same or different hardnesses.

Do you always prefer using a tip of the same hardness?

Or, are there times you when you prefer using a harder tip and other times when you prefer using a softer tip?

By harder and softer I mean harder or softer than the other tip(s) you use, for example, a medium and a soft, or a hard and a medium.

My current preference is to use a harder tip (medium hard) on the 7' bar box tables with the heavier cue ball and a softer tip (medium) on the 9' tables with the standard cue ball. It seems I get more action on the cue ball with a harder tip and more control with a softer tip. And so I benefit from using a harder tip on the 7' tables since it moves the heavier cue ball around easier than a softer tip. And, I benefit from using a softer tip on the 9' tables since I get plenty of action on my shots anyway and can use the extra control I get from a softer tip. Your milage may vary.

Tony_in_MD
05-25-2008, 04:16 AM
I like all of my tips to feel the same, regardless of the size of the table, what game I am playing, the weather conditions or any other factor you would want to include. I don't buy into the different tip for diffent conditions bit that you prefer. But as I always say about pool there is only 12 inches that matter, the first 6 inches of your shaft, and the six inches of space between the ears.

As a side note, layered tips are generally much more consistent in that. For example a sample of 10 Morri Medium tips will be nearly identical to each other.

Take 10 non layered tips like Triangle and there is more variation, some are significantly harder or softer. So much that it feels like a different cue when you hit a ball.

cushioncrawler
05-25-2008, 05:02 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tony_in_MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...But as I always say about pool there is only 12 inches that matter, the first 6 inches of your shaft, and the six inches of space between the ears....</div></div>Tony -- what about the cue?? madMac.

Tony_in_MD
05-25-2008, 07:07 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tony_in_MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...But as I always say about pool there is only 12 inches that matter, the first 6 inches of your shaft, and the six inches of space between the ears....</div></div>Tony -- what about the cue?? madMac. </div></div>

What about it? If you can play, you can play with anything.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

cushioncrawler
05-25-2008, 08:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tony_in_MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tony_in_MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...But as I always say about pool there is only 12 inches that matter, the first 6 inches of your shaft, and the six inches of space between the ears....</div></div>Tony -- what about the cue?? madMac. </div></div>What about it? If you can play, you can play with anything. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif</div></div>No -- LOL -- delete my last posting -- what i meant, woz, putting it another way -- "My arithmetic sez it adds to 18 inches".

Aktually, i shood highlite -- "the first 6 inches of your shaft" and "you can play with anything". madMac.

Tony_in_MD
05-26-2008, 05:27 AM
I thought you were going there too, but my answer is still the same.

LOL

1Time
05-27-2008, 08:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tony_in_MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't buy into the different tip for diffent conditions bit that you prefer. </div></div>
You're definitely not alone.

Most people are not aware of any benefit in using different equipment for different conditions. And that's in part due to simply not having compared different equipment when the game or the conditions are different. Then again, most people after having tried this probably still would not find a benefit. You'd really have to first compare different equipment under different conditions before being sure doing so would not work better for you. The concept is to do whatever works best for the individual. The better the player is, the more likely it is the player would benefit from using different equipment.

I used to think using the same stick and tip was best, that way I would not have to adjust to more than one cue/tip, but then I later found out differently.

The difference in conditions that matters the most for any player is found between a 7' bar box and a non-coin-op table. And that is the cue ball on a bar box is usually heavier. All other differences in conditions can be more easily adapted to with one cue / tip. Here's a more subtle example. 9-ball and 1-pocket are very different games. If a player shoots both games on the same 9' table, would that player do best with the same cue / tip? Perhaps, but maybe not. That player may find each game can be played better with separate shafts / tips, even if the only difference between them is the shape of the tip. There is no right or wrong answer; it's whatever works best for the individual.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tony_in_MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take 10 non layered tips like Triangle and there is more variation, some are significantly harder or softer. So much that it feels like a different cue when you hit a ball. </div></div>
I just bought 2 new Triangle tips from the same source, one to replace the one I cut down and one for another cue. I suspect I won't notice a difference between these and the first tip before I cut it down. However, it does make sense to me that layered tips would be less likely to vary from one tip to another.

cycopath
05-27-2008, 09:00 AM
I like to use hard tips. Currently I have a Tiger Hard installed on my cue. The reason I like the hard tips is feel. I like the way the hit feels, and using the hard tip forces me to keep a good stroke and not drop my elbow. When I start having more miscues, I know I'm dropping my elbow.

JoeW
05-28-2008, 10:04 AM
Don't you think that if you buy a soft tip and hit with it for a few hours that it compresses to the hardness that is needed for your game. Seems to work that way for me. I use LePro and they all seem to compress to the same hardness after awhile. Maybe I am missing something here as I have not used a layered tip.

1Time
05-28-2008, 02:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't you think that if you buy a soft tip and hit with it for a few hours that it compresses to the hardness that is needed for your game. </div></div>
I think there's no way to know if a soft tip like an ElkMaster would be best for my game on a coin-op table without first trying it. But I do think a soft tip would still hit like a soft tip after a few hours of use. Factors other than tip hardness that I also am considering are the tip diameter and shape. As far as what's best on my Blaze cue for shooting on a 9' table, for now I'm satisfied with a Talisman Pro medium.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems to work that way for me. I use LePro and they all seem to compress to the same hardness after awhile. Maybe I am missing something here as I have not used a layered tip. </div></div>
Years ago I liked using a LePro tip and before that a Champion tip, but I did not like the last 3 LePros I more recently encountered. So I have written off ever shooting with a LePro again. I don't recommend them, but whatever works best for you. The consensus on layered tips seems to be their hardness will not vary as much from one to another.

Rail Rat
05-28-2008, 04:44 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't you think that if you buy a soft tip and hit with it for a few hours that it compresses to the hardness that is needed for your game. Seems to work that way for me. I use LePro and they all seem to compress to the same hardness after awhile. Maybe I am missing something here as I have not used a layered tip. </div></div>

I use a medium Moori tip on all my cues. I've played with it for two years and it has never lost its shape! All quality boars leather tips are good...Tiger, ect. They will not compact or mushroom.

Hard or soft tips are a personal preference but I believe most use a medium tip, with a hard tip for their breaking cue. A soft tip can get sloppy, its great for digging in to the ball but you sacrifice touch and feel for the shot. A cheap soft tip will harden and flatten out.

Snooker players like a hard tip as its best for control when striking the smaller balls.
The harder tip of course requires precise cuing to avoid miscuing.

Jager85
05-29-2008, 09:33 AM
I agree that I like everything to feel the same. I personally prefer softer tips. A soft tip allows me to use more of the cue ball confidently when needed. Confidence in my stroke is everything. If I am in a tight spot and need to use extreme english to get out, a hard tip will have a high chance of a miscue. Just with that fact in the back of my mind I lose confidence and lose stroke. A good feel in the hit and confidence in my stroke are the most important to me.

eb_in_nc
05-29-2008, 11:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jager85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree that I like everything to feel the same. I personally prefer softer tips. A soft tip allows me to use more of the cue ball confidently when needed. Confidence in my stroke is everything. If I am in a tight spot and need to use extreme english to get out, a hard tip will have a high chance of a miscue. Just with that fact in the back of my mind I lose confidence and lose stroke. A good feel in the hit and confidence in my stroke are the most important to me. </div></div>

I agree with you Jaeger except for one type of shot, that being the off the rail to the other side of the table shot where you need to shoot the CB slow and steady. I find that shooting this sort of shot forces you to put some sort of english on the CB even though you don't want to, which effectively makes the CB mishit the OB due to the CB wandering off track from the ever so slight english. Hitting this sort of shot with a harder tip avoids in my mind this sort of mishit.

Maybe you have a better way of dealing with this sort of shot but I have not worked it out with a soft tipped cue.

Scott Lee
06-04-2008, 09:58 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tony_in_MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't buy into the different tip for diffent conditions bit that you prefer. </div></div>

The better the player is, the more likely it is the player would benefit from using different equipment. </div></div>

Wow...more nonsense from you, 1Time! MOST top players use one cue, and one tip (regardless of the pool game, table size, or conditions)...and it's been that way for decades. The one exception, is them using a break cue...and most of them do that, because they were given one by a cue company. There were no break cues until 20+ years ago. Heck, the hustlers pulled a cue off the wall and ran out! Tony_in_MD is right on the money, with his comments.

Scott Lee

eb_in_nc
06-05-2008, 07:23 AM
Scott, thanks for your affirmations here. I was wondering if I was being so insensitive to my game to not think I might need more specific equipment to accomplish results under different conditions. To be honest, I thought the notion of needing different tips for playing on different size tables was somewhat bizarre.

I guess some of us are busy trying to find the optimum cue tip "wall angle" while others are just playing the game and learning the subtleties about how to adapt to different environments and conditions. Sometimes too much intellect can be an overkill for something that can be subconsciously executed, IMHO.

Tony_in_MD
06-05-2008, 02:57 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eb_in_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Sometimes too much intellect can be an overkill for something that can be subconsciously executed, IMHO. </div></div>

Yep. Reminds me of a recent golf tourney I watched, the announcers were talking about a specific player who was in the hunt for the win, and they told the world on National TV that this player has a disadvantage, in that he is a very smart guy and needs to learn how to quite his mind.

IMHO this is spot on.

eb_in_nc
06-06-2008, 06:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tony_in_MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eb_in_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Sometimes too much intellect can be an overkill for something that can be subconsciously executed, IMHO. </div></div>

Yep. Reminds me of a recent golf tourney I watched, the announcers were talking about a specific player who was in the hunt for the win, and they told the world on National TV that this player has a disadvantage, in that he is a very smart guy and needs to learn how to quite his mind.

IMHO this is spot on. </div></div>

Tony, I think we all have had this sort of problem to some level with our game, I know I have. It's one thing to be an arm chair pilot when watching others shoot and critique what they have done or what they should have done. But during your own match, you can't arm chair the solutions to the problems that exist for you on the table, and your focus needs to be getting down to business and shooting your game of pool. I've mentioned before, when I find myself getting too wound up in the "failure analysis" of my game, I start to sing songs in my head to get away from my own intellect. This has worked for me as a positive distraction.

SKennedy
06-06-2008, 03:56 PM
A non-pool player asked me today about pool cues and equipment. He thought expensive equipment (cues) made the player. I assured him that a good player could grab any decent house cue and beat me while I'm using the best stick money can buy!
However, I do think a decent tip helps your play and the better you are as a player the more improvements, albeit minor, you can obtain with the right equipment in the right condition, etc.
If your stroke sucks, it doesn't matter if you have a custom cue or a broom stick!

Rail Rat
06-07-2008, 12:09 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SKennedy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A non-pool player asked me today about pool cues and equipment. He thought expensive equipment (cues) made the player. I assured him that a good player could grab any decent house cue and beat me while I'm using the best stick money can buy!
However, I do think a decent tip helps your play and the better you are as a player the more improvements, albeit minor, you can obtain with the right equipment in the right condition, etc.
If your stroke sucks, it doesn't matter if you have a custom cue or a broom stick! </div></div>

I read all of this post and your reply sums it up nicely. Better equipment lasts longer thus more value. Plus as you advance in play you will benefit from the nuances that good equipment provides you. But better equipment alone is no substitute for skill.

This of course is true in any sport.

I would like to reply to one post that mentioned that the break cue is a new thing. Thats true, but befor it became fashionable most players just grabbed a rack cue because they did'nt want to damage their regular cue tip. I carry one now because most rack cues are to light for me.

BillyJack
06-07-2008, 01:08 PM
I'm a little wacko about my preference in tips. Usually I'll go to a hall or a tourney with two shafts. One will have a medium tip and one with a hard tip. Some nights the med. feels better, some nights I prefer the hard. No particular reason such as cloth, cue ball or humidity. It's all between the ears. Maybe some day I'll find that one "perfect" tip. I know I've sure as hell tried enough of them, but there's still a few candidates left.
Bill

Rail Rat
06-07-2008, 01:26 PM
Yes its all preference. I've found they perfect cue tip for me, but I have a friend who is a very advanced player but keeps trying different tips. He does'nt get a chance to play much so he has'nt found his comfort zone yet.

When it comes to cues I hate Quetecs, they don't feel right to me. I've often wondered if Strickland really liked that promo stick he used for years. There are plenty of storys (and videos) of him breaking the thing after a bad shot. Does'nt seem to bother Alison though.

cushioncrawler
06-08-2008, 06:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BillyJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a little wacko about my preference in tips. Usually I'll go to a hall or a tourney with two shafts. One will have a medium tip and one with a hard tip. Some nights the med. feels better, some nights I prefer the hard. No particular reason such as cloth, cue ball or humidity. It's all between the ears. Maybe some day I'll find that one "perfect" tip. I know I've sure as hell tried enough of them, but there's still a few candidates left. Bill</div></div>Bill -- Soft-tips and hard-tips hav different squirt (i think all agree). Slippery cloths, slow cloths etc affekt squirt allso (i think all agree). So, one way of tackling this varyation iz to uze different cues, ie different tips etc.

The funny thing iz that when i say "all agree" re the varyation in squirt for soft/hard tips, we do, but we dont. We all agree that squirt varyz, but madMac (alone) sez that soft-tips squirt more.

It gets funnyer. I think we all agree that there iz varyation in squirt for "soft-hits" versus "hard-hits", but here again we do but we dont. madMac (alone) sez that soft-hits squirt more. (I apologize if my memory of old threadz here iz awry).

But the main thing that i wanted to say woz something that (once again) apparantly haz never been acknowledged in this forum (nor to my knowledge in any snooker forum), and that iz that soft/hard tips affekt the accuracy of straight shots, even "center-hit" straight shots. I would hav thort that playerz would be wize to this. madMac.

Rail Rat
06-08-2008, 07:41 PM
Its been my experience that a soft tip tends to put unwanted side on the QB even when you hit it as dead center as possible.

cushioncrawler
06-08-2008, 08:31 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rail Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its been my experience that a soft tip tends to put unwanted side on the QB even when you hit it as dead center as possible.</div></div>I reckon that softness and shape work together and leed to a flaw or to a medicine for different players.

But i wouldnt call it "unwanted side", unintentional side for sure, but i would only call it unwanted if it woz an unwanted flaw (ie if it hurt the rezult) -- and i would call it "wanted side" if it woz a wanted flaw, ie if it woz a medicine (ie if it helped the rezult) -- but of course we probably dont/karnt know which one it iz.

But, if u hit the qball "as dead center as possible", and if u find "unwanted side", then i think that this can be due to two things...

(1) The initial contact on the qball iz dead center, but the final contact is not. This meenz that the qtip iz not travelling straight on line, which meenz that u hav a natural (unwanted??) hoik to the left or right in your action.

(2) If there iz no such hoik, then it might be due to the natural vibration of the cue. A cue buckles into a (say) S-shape during the hit, and probably manages to get one or two sidewayz motions into the equation before it finally parts company with the qball. With a softer tip, it might get in another half-motion. Dont know.

(3) Of course one karnt avoid saying that possibly the qtip might be non-symmetrycal, in which case the first contact probably wouldnt be dead center, in which case i kood avoid saying it. I periodically put sandpaper on the floor and twirl the cue noze-down on the sandpaper to help true-up any developed non-symmetry -- and to make a true flatspot in the center which i think helps madMac.

But dont forget, in the right places, and in the right doses, any hoik, or vibration, or non-symmetry can be a medicine. madMac never throws away any "mistake" without firstly "sucking" it to see what effekt it haz -- never know, madMac might be throwing away a new cure, and missing out on a Nobel Prize for billiards.

Do u uze a bent cue??? madMac.

Rail Rat
06-08-2008, 09:09 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rail Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its been my experience that a soft tip tends to put unwanted side on the QB even when you hit it as dead center as possible.</div></div>I reckon that softness and shape work together and leed to a flaw or to a medicine for different players.

But i wouldnt call it "unwanted side", unintentional side for sure, but i would only call it unwanted if it woz an unwanted flaw (ie if it hurt the rezult) -- and i would call it "wanted side" if it woz a wanted flaw, ie if it woz a medicine (ie if it helped the rezult) -- but of course we probably dont/karnt know which one it iz.

But, if u hit the qball "as dead center as possible", and if u find "unwanted side", then i think that this can be due to two things...

(1) The initial contact on the qball iz dead center, but the final contact is not. This meenz that the qtip iz not travelling straight on line, which meenz that u hav a natural (unwanted??) hoik to the left or right in your action.

(2) If there iz no such hoik, then it might be due to the natural vibration of the cue. A cue buckles into a (say) S-shape during the hit, and probably manages to get one or two sidewayz motions into the equation before it finally parts company with the qball. With a softer tip, it might get in another half-motion. Dont know.

(3) Of course one karnt avoid saying that possibly the qtip might be non-symmetrycal, in which case the first contact probably wouldnt be dead center, in which case i kood avoid saying it. I periodically put sandpaper on the floor and twirl the cue noze-down on the sandpaper to help true-up any developed non-symmetry -- and to make a true flatspot in the center which i think helps madMac.

But dont forget, in the right places, and in the right doses, any hoik, or vibration, or non-symmetry can be a medicine. madMac never throws away any "mistake" without firstly "sucking" it to see what effekt it haz -- never know, madMac might be throwing away a new cure, and missing out on a Nobel Prize for billiards.

Do u uze a bent cue??? madMac. </div></div>

I should have used a Macerism and said "near as coud" to dead center. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Its a challenge to not put unwanted side on the QB with a soft tip. As you note it's usually not shaped properly because it can't take any abuse and it will eventually come apart or mushroom or flatten unevenly. Don't know bout the S shaped stick though Mac, you've lost me there. I used a soft tip when I first started playing because It came with my cue and I did'nt know any better, but after a while it became apparent what was happening.

I had a bent cue but it was not intentionally bent (I left it in the closet leaning against the wall) but I do know of some players who do it intentionally to accomodate certain problems, so I do not scoff at such.

I read your many posts and try to understand your lexicon and I think I get most of it. If you do publish a book be sure and include a glossary of Macerisms, thats a must. - Rail Rat

georgiekuntz
06-10-2008, 11:32 AM
The majority of the pros are using a Morri M, which is a very hard tip, or some knockoff brand just like it. That is all you need to know on the subject.

No, I am not BCA certified... but I did stay at a Motel 6 last night.

1Time
06-10-2008, 12:20 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: georgiekuntz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The majority of the pros are using a Morri M, which is a very hard tip, or some knockoff brand just like it. That is all you need to know on the subject.</div></div>
Thanks for the tip, :). I will keep that in mind if I decide to change tips on the cue that I use on every table except coin-op bar boxes. But I've always read the Moori Q is a hard tip, not the Moori M. I think the knockoff brand you're referring to is Instroke.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: georgiekuntz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, I am not BCA certified... but I did stay at a Motel 6 last night. </div></div>
I take it you don't recall the series of funny Holiday Inn commercials they ran over a year ago like this, that is, with the punch line, "but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night".

georgiekuntz
06-10-2008, 01:00 PM
Yes I saw the commercial, I do not miss much. Since you stole it from them, then is it not legal I can steal it from you? Thief to thief.
If I save $30 a night under a Holiday Inn rate, a beds, a bed, am I then, now very smart and must brag about it to everyone?

Am I now, smarter than you?

All right, I'll let you keep your sign off handle un opposed. Then you won't have to go to war with me over it. If I wanted a handle, I am sure I could come up with something better than that.

There are a dozen knock off Morri tips, kamui, spiper, talisman, etc, etc, etc, it does not take much skill to shave out 10 slices of pig skin and glue and press them into a soup can shape. You want skill, try and make a designer dress to fit from scratch.

All Morri's are hard, they are very hard. So the S is hard, just a little softer than the M. The H is the same hardness as the triangle which is the hardest single layer you can play with and not be miss cueing.

As I do not wish to get into an argument you you fine people, You have already done that with several pages of posts, may I suggest you simply educate your self on this subject by acquiring a muellers catalog where they list all the tips and their tested durometer ratings of soft to hard. That is what I did, which is why I know the answer here to your question you all seem to be struggling with. Knowledge is power.

You should play with the same tip on all pool tables, from 7 to 10'. Same even on 3-cushion. If you were playing serious English snooker on a 6x12 only then would I think going to a softer tip would be wise and you should then use a proper English cue designed for that sport./

Get on one tip, stay on one so you learn how the English applies and takes. Using soft on one table, hard on another would only confuse you sir.

No, I am not BCA certified... but I did stay at a Motel 6 last night. No pool, no pin ball, no bar, no bowling alleys, just a bed and 2 pillows. This is Motel 6 mister. It isn't much but it sure beats sleeping in the back seat of my car.

Rail Rat
06-10-2008, 02:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: georgiekuntz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes I saw the commercial, I do not miss much. Since you stole it from them, then is it not legal I can steal it from you? Thief to thief.
If I save $30 a night under a Holiday Inn rate, a beds, a bed, am I then, now very smart and must brag about it to everyone?

Am I now, smarter than you?

All right, I'll let you keep your sign off handle un opposed. Then you won't have to go to war with me over it. If I wanted a handle, I am sure I could come up with something better than that.

There are a dozen knock off Morri tips, kamui, spiper, talisman, etc, etc, etc, it does not take much skill to shave out 10 slices of pig skin and glue and press them into a soup can shape. You want skill, try and make a designer dress to fit from scratch.

All Morri's are hard, they are very hard. So the S is hard, just a little softer than the M. The H is the same hardness as the triangle which is the hardest single layer you can play with and not be miss cueing.

As I do not wish to get into an argument you you fine people, You have already done that with several pages of posts, may I suggest you simply educate your self on this subject by acquiring a muellers catalog where they list all the tips and their tested durometer ratings of soft to hard. That is what I did, which is why I know the answer here to your question you all seem to be struggling with. Knowledge is power.

You should play with the same tip on all pool tables, from 7 to 10'. Same even on 3-cushion. If you were playing serious English snooker on a 6x12 only then would I think going to a softer tip would be wise and you should then use a proper English cue designed for that sport./

Get on one tip, stay on one so you learn how the English applies and takes. Using soft on one table, hard on another would only confuse you sir.

No, I am not BCA certified... but I did stay at a Motel 6 last night. No pool, no pin ball, no bar, no bowling alleys, just a bed and 2 pillows. This is Motel 6 mister. It isn't much but it sure beats sleeping in the back seat of my car. </div></div>

Sorry George but most snooker players use a very hard tip on their cues. Been playing it for 30 years so I should know. Read the first part of this forum and it explains why.

JoeW
06-10-2008, 02:18 PM
Is a water buffalo tip about as hard as the Mori hard tip?
I have a water buffalo tip on on my break cue (I think) and tried playing with it last night. I did not realize that the water buffalo tip was a good playing tip until this series of posts.

It seems that I have to use less english and a softer stroke. It is easier to miscue but the english is about the same with less offset and a softer stroke.

After reading Bob Jewett's work and some others with regard to the dwell time durng cue tip contact I am beginning to see why a hard tip might be better.

So, there ya go, I gotta go learn more about types of cue tips. In the past I had thought that a softer tip lead to more control but this may not be the case as the dwell time is so short. So, apparently, the best possible contact is the better way to shoot and this would be the harder tip. Hmmm

Eric.
06-10-2008, 02:34 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: georgiekuntz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes I saw the commercial, I do not miss much. Since you stole it from them, then is it not legal I can steal it from you? Thief to thief.
If I save $30 a night under a Holiday Inn rate, a beds, a bed, am I then, now very smart and must brag about it to everyone?

Am I now, smarter than you?

All right, I'll let you keep your sign off handle un opposed. Then you won't have to go to war with me over it. If I wanted a handle, I am sure I could come up with something better than that.

There are a dozen knock off Morri tips, kamui, spiper, talisman, etc, etc, etc, it does not take much skill to shave out 10 slices of pig skin and glue and press them into a soup can shape. You want skill, try and make a designer dress to fit from scratch.

All Morri's are hard, they are very hard. So the S is hard, just a little softer than the M. The H is the same hardness as the triangle which is the hardest single layer you can play with and not be miss cueing.

As I do not wish to get into an argument you you fine people, You have already done that with several pages of posts, may I suggest you simply educate your self on this subject by acquiring a muellers catalog where they list all the tips and their tested durometer ratings of soft to hard. That is what I did, which is why I know the answer here to your question you all seem to be struggling with. Knowledge is power.

You should play with the same tip on all pool tables, from 7 to 10'. Same even on 3-cushion. If you were playing serious English snooker on a 6x12 only then would I think going to a softer tip would be wise and you should then use a proper English cue designed for that sport./

Get on one tip, stay on one so you learn how the English applies and takes. Using soft on one table, hard on another would only confuse you sir.

No, I am not BCA certified... but I did stay at a Motel 6 last night. No pool, no pin ball, no bar, no bowling alleys, just a bed and 2 pillows. This is Motel 6 mister. It isn't much but it sure beats sleeping in the back seat of my car. </div></div>

http://groups.google.com/group/larryguningerisaliar

Rail Rat
06-10-2008, 03:02 PM
Joe, I'm know tip expert, probably few are, but I believe most of the expensive layered tips deliver durability and shape retention. Its all a matter of what you feel comfortable with. Spiderman says that he does'nt like Talisman because of an irregular shape he experienced, but I use them and have for years. Morri's are very good, Tigers, ect. on down the line.

As far as playing conditions I don't notice much difference in play from one top brand to another when they are of the same hardness, whether Boars hide or buffalo. But I've only played with about 1/3 of the tips out there. But soft, medium and hard tips are drastically different in play in comparison to each other, and I believe most of them come in these 3 classes of hardness

Soft tips give you more action allowing you to leave the center of the QB further.
Hard tips give you more of a feel for the shot, hence better control, but require more precise cuing to avoid glance off.

As a result I like a medium tip, its soft enough to allow some give but strong enough hold its shape and allow good control with out danger of mis-cue.

But thats me, all I can say is when you do find the tip you like its best to stay with it on all your cues as you want to maintain uniformity.

I thought I would add this also to my post for hard tip comparison:
I stopped by a booth at the fair with old pool tables offering prizes for a run out of only 3 balls. Well of course I paid 3 bucks and tried it....
I could'nt make a ball!!!
The tips were as hard as glass! I tried chalking one and it was like trying to chalk a ball bearing. I finally ran 3 balls (after 12 bucks) by using only follow shots. Of course my friends are all saying, "we thought you could play pool!"

cushioncrawler
06-10-2008, 04:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is a water buffalo tip about as hard as the Mori hard tip? I have a water buffalo tip on on my break cue (I think) and tried playing with it last night. I did not realize that the water buffalo tip was a good playing tip until this series of posts.

It seems that I have to use less english and a softer stroke. It is easier to miscue but the english is about the same with less offset and a softer stroke. After reading Bob Jewett's work and some others with regard to the dwell time durng cue tip contact I am beginning to see why a hard tip might be better.

So, there ya go, I gotta go learn more about types of cue tips. In the past I had thought that a softer tip lead to more control but this may not be the case as the dwell time is so short. So, apparently, the best possible contact is the better way to shoot and this would be the harder tip. Hmmm</div></div>Joe -- Different to me -- if i put a soft tip on my favorit cue, and try to play some deep skrew, i havta aim much deeper to get the same sort of rezult az i got with the very hard tip that i hav uzed all season (and that had just kum off or broke or something the previous night).

I think that there would be more dwell (kontakt) time with a soft tip, not more.

But, every player iz different, and every game iz different. For example -- i hav decided to concentrate on praktising "postman'z knock" for when i play in the Ozzy (English) Billiards later in June, in Melbourne (12' tables). So, i dug out my old fat stiff cues, and picked one that woz 11.5mm, with a very flat Triumph tip (one layer??, water buffalo??). Here, i want a cue that "dumbz-down" the aktion, koz "postman'z" needz lots of simple stun shots, nothing fancy needed.

But up to now i hav been praktising "Floating White" -- this form of billiardz needs lots of skrewy shots, and lots of softish shots with lots of side-spin. For FW i woz uzing a 9mm cue and tip -- very lively -- lots of aktion, but more diffikult to kontrol.

So, the fat/stiff cue givz me lots of kontrol. If i play az if to get some serious skrew i dont get much skrew-back at all -- i can put up with that. But when i hit hard with stun i get the exakt qball angle etc that i want -- i can stop the qball on the exakt spot (nearnuff).

I imagine that there are pool-players out there who are sick of "lively" cues, and who hav gone back to a good'ol reliable fatty. And, i suspekt that a hard tip playz better on a fatty than duz a soft tip (dunno). madMac.

JoeW
06-10-2008, 06:00 PM
I think your right Cushioncrawler. If I remember right, a soft tip compresses and stays in contact longer, thus more spin. However, because it compresses the energy transfer is less and thus requires more power for the same effect that a hard tip has. The issue for me is can one get as much energy transfer with a soft tip. I think the answer is no.

The hard tip transfers more energy because it does not compress as much. Therefore, less offset and less force are needed. However, the hard tip is more likely to mis-cue and requires a better stroke.

I think that is a summary of what I have read from various sources.

I think that the LePros I use are probably classed as a soft to medium but I don't know for sure. It seems that I need a better stroke with the hard "Water Buffalo" tip. I have found that I can get good draw (screw) if my stroke is excellent.

Apparently the tip selection is a matter of preference. I have been playing with both sticks and currently I play better with the LePro but that is what I have used for many years. I can see what appears to be better cue ball control with the hard tip if I am careful so there are definite possibilities.

The Water Buffalo Tip appears to be just under the penolic tip in terms of hardness. It may be some other brand or some other process. It is the tip that was used on the "Mace Cue" about 10 - 15 yeas ago (13 mm shaft) and someone told me it is a Water Buffalo. Whatever it is it is really hard. I have been breaking with it for a year and there has been no deformation in the tip. Looks the same as when I bought it used.

I doubt that I would want to go back to a "fat" stick. I try them from time to time and I simply do not like the way they play. Maybe a snooker stick made of Ash woould give a stiffer hit. That I could get along with. I have a Dufferin (10mm) snooker cue and it is one of my favortie cues. I do not know if it is made of Ash. It is quite old, maybe 30 years and was made in Canada.

Rail Rat
06-10-2008, 06:17 PM
I have a Dufferin Sneaky Pete Joe, (a break down that looks like a rack cue) but its deffinately a pool cue. It came with a cheap tip so I put a medium Talisman on it. Its my favorite cue.

The snooker cues have a much narrower shaft and are a bit shorter than pool cues, which is odd since the table is 3 feet longer? They are usually made of ash which I don't like because they tend to warp very easily. For snooker I have to special order a cue since I'm quite tall.

Not a lot of snooker played up here anymore, its all pool now but the die hards are still around.

TCOB
06-10-2008, 07:32 PM
You post a link to a web site, you created with all lies, to slander a pro, and that you find to be right, or normal. Some would find you to be, quite dangerous, or very insane to do such a thing. Slander on that scale is a crime dear sir. Try and spend your time, in positive pursuits and climb out of the sewer you are now in.

Jal
06-10-2008, 07:59 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... If I remember right, a soft tip compresses and stays in contact longer, thus more spin. However, because it compresses the energy transfer is less and thus requires more power for the same effect that a hard tip has.</div></div>
Prof. Joe, I don't think this way of looking at it is quite right. The longer contact time of the softer tip should not, to my current understanding, yield more spin, particularly if more energy is lost than with a harder tip. Its greater compressibility means that the force between it and the cueball takes longer to build up and it doesn't reach as high a peak value. This, in turn, means the cueball takes longer to develop speed and spin.

If you can get more spin with a softer tip, it's likely because it develops a greater coefficient of friction with the cueball, allowing a greater initial tip offset. Or, the larger contact area makes miscues less likely (less chance of bare leather against ball across the contact region).

As to whether more energy is lost, generally speaking, softer materials do tend to be less efficient. But Mike Page has reported that dropping cues with both soft and hard tips resulted in them bouncing back up to about the same height. This suggests that their efficiency might be very similar. Maybe Mac has done something analogous?

You might see more squirt with a softer tip hit at a particular offset. The longer contact could mean more endmass is set into motion. If so, this is an energy drain yielding less 'effective' offset and therefore less spin.

Just some thoughts.

Jim

cushioncrawler
06-10-2008, 08:12 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...I doubt that I would want to go back to a "fat" stick. I try them from time to time and I simply do not like the way they play. Maybe a snooker stick made of Ash woould give a stiffer hit. That I could get along with. I have a Dufferin (10mm) snooker cue and it is one of my favortie cues. I do not know if it is made of Ash. It is quite old, maybe 30 years and was made in Canada.</div></div>I bort 4 identical 2-piece dufferins. I changed the wts of the butts, and i changed the thicknesses of the shafts, and so now i can mix'n'match them to giv me 16 combinations, from 16-1/2oz to 21oz and 9mm to 11.5mm. Mine are all ash, but in my opinion ash and maple are nearnuff the same in wt and strength etc. Ash givz u a nice grain (arrowz) to look at, and the arrowz can help u to uze your favorit bit of the tip (if the tip iznt symmetrical). But ash uzually develops a bend with time -- which wouldnt bother me, i would uze the bend az medicine. madMac.

JoeW
06-10-2008, 10:03 PM
I got out my 18 oz Dufferin tonight and from your comments it is maple. Sure do like that cue. Seems to me that it is the most accurate of my cues but is a little on the delicate side for the 2.25" balls. I feel like it will break or split one day and I would hate to lose my snooker cue though I have not used it in a few years. I compared it to the current Predator Z2 I use for pool and there realy isn't too much difference. I have the longer Predator shaft and it is abou 11.75 mm. Without really thinking about it I kept searching for a pool cue that is similar to my snooker cue.

I have pocket inserts for billiards and I have regulation snooker balls. But I have never been able to find snooker pocket inserts for a Gold Crown III. Snooker on a pool table is a laugh, you just have to have the rounded pockets to make it interesting.

Thanks JAL, always like to learn. Apparently there is not that much difference between a hard and a soft tip. I like the "added friction" with my soft tip and have found the Predator adequately addresses the sqirt problem. Apparently the search endeth here -- Thanks.

Rail Rat
06-10-2008, 11:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Prof. Joe, I don't think this way of looking at it is quite right. The longer contact time of the softer tip should not, to my current understanding, yield more spin, particularly if more energy is lost than with a harder tip. Its greater compressibility means that the force between it and the cueball takes longer to build up and it doesn't reach as high a peak value. This, in turn, means the cueball takes longer to develop speed and spin.

If you can get more spin with a softer tip, it's likely because it develops a greater coefficient of friction with the cueball, allowing a greater initial tip offset. Or, the larger contact area makes miscues less likely (less chance of bare leather against ball across the contact region).

As to whether more energy is lost, generally speaking, softer materials do tend to be less efficient. But Mike Page has reported that dropping cues with both soft and hard tips resulted in them bouncing back up to about the same height. This suggests that their efficiency might be very similar. Maybe Mac has done something analogous?

You might see more squirt with a softer tip hit at a particular offset. The longer contact could mean more endmass is set into motion. If so, this is an energy drain yielding less 'effective' offset and therefore less spin.

Just some thoughts.

Jim </div></div>

Pretty much explains it in technical terms Jim. Basically the softness of the tip grips the QB in a wider area providing added friction and imparting much more spin with less energy applied to the hit. As I noted you can go much farther from center with the soft tip. But as also noted you lose stricking power as there is some compression on impact.

The difference is not enough to bounce the whole cue, its too small, but there is "give" which is certainly enough to effect the QB force.

By "feel" I mean the softness lessons the feel of the strike in your hand, its harder to judge your hit and you usually wind up getting more action on the QB then you intended.

Thats how it works for me, for others who have adapted to the tip its less of a problem.

TCOB
06-11-2008, 08:45 AM
Most of you have this thing all wrong. There is no grab, no time for it to happen, the tip comes off the ball in 1/000th of a second. There is no grab, just a rebound.

The harder the tip, the more power and English you will get.

The best single layer tip to use, is the hardest one you can use and not be miscuing, a triangle. There are water buffalo tips that will do more than it, but they miss cue a lot. So there is a line you can go to, cross it and you have problems.

Most pros are using a Morri M, they do not know they could be using the H, which is the same durometer rating as the triangle.
Talisman has an X which is harder than the H, which will do more, but again, you get into miss cues and its hard to hold chalk.

Eric.
06-11-2008, 08:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCOB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You post a link to a web site, you created with all lies, to slander a pro, and that you find to be right, or normal. Some would find you to be, quite dangerous, or very insane to do such a thing. Slander on that scale is a crime dear sir. Try and spend your time, in positive pursuits and climb out of the sewer you are now in. </div></div>

Beat it, Fast Liarry. No one wants you around here.


Eric &gt; http://groups.google.com/group/larryguningerisaliar

Rail Rat
06-11-2008, 11:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCOB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most of you have this thing all wrong. There is no grab, no time for it to happen, the tip comes off the ball in 1/000th of a second. There is no grab, just a rebound.

The harder the tip, the more power and English you will get.

The best single layer tip to use, is the hardest one you can use and not be miscuing, a triangle. There are water buffalo tips that will do more than it, but they miss cue a lot. So there is a line you can go to, cross it and you have problems.

Most pros are using a Morri M, they do not know they could be using the H, which is the same durometer rating as the triangle.
Talisman has an X which is harder than the H, which will do more, but again, you get into miss cues and its hard to hold chalk. </div></div>

The time factor is not an issue here Larry, you know that. Imagine playing pool with a small pillow attached to the end of your cue... its the same principle.

I use the Talisman hard tip on my break cue.

Deeman3
06-11-2008, 12:45 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCOB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most of you have this thing all wrong. There is no grab, no time for it to happen, the tip comes off the ball in 1/000th of a second. There is no grab, just a rebound.

</div></div>

<span style="color: #CC0000"> Gee, now I can attach that clever stainless steel tip Spiderman has been trying to see me. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

No wear, no tear, won't even sag at the knees....</span>

Joeyjay
06-11-2008, 12:53 PM
My name is joey, and there are Talisman tips harder you should use for breaking, there is X, and the new XX, which is as hard as they can make.

Rail Rat
06-11-2008, 01:03 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joeyjay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My name is joey, and there are Talisman tips harder you should use for breaking, there is X, and the new XX, which is as hard as they can make. </div></div>

Well I don't want it too hard, I gotta few dents in my wall already!

Joeyjay
06-11-2008, 03:42 PM
You miss the point, you can't have it too hard, which is why the plastic tips worked, but this is leather, and legal everywhere. I use it with great success. A lot of people do not know they are available. You can't break with English with a plastic tip, but with the XX you can.

Jal
06-11-2008, 03:43 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rail Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Basically the softness of the tip grips the QB in a wider area providing added friction and imparting much more spin with less energy applied to the hit.</div></div>
At a particular offset, say, comfortably below the miscue limit, the amount of friction is the same for a soft or hard tip, assuming no slipping is taking place with either one. But if a softer tip does have a greater coefficient of friction with the cueball, it means you can hit farther from center without miscuing and thereby potentially get more spin. At normal offsets though, both tips should yield the same amount of spin if they both waste the same amount of energy. Whether or not softer tips buck the trend of softer materials being less efficient, I don't know for sure. I just reported that one experiment done by Mike Page.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rail Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I noted you can go much farther from center with the soft tip. But as also noted you lose stricking power as there is some compression on impact.</div></div>
I'll defer to your experience. Some would take issue with "you can go much farther from center" though.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rail RatThe difference is not enough to bounce the whole cue, its too small, but there is "give" which is certainly enough to effect the QB force.[/quote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Well, the fact that something compresses more than something else doesn't necessarily mean that it's less efficient. If you had a hard and soft tip of equal energy efficiency, both should produce the same speed and spin (all else being equal) even though the softer one would feel mushier. The lesser force produced by it is compensated by the longer contact time.

[quote=RailBy "feel" I mean the softness lessons the feel of the strike in your hand, its harder to judge your hit...</div></div>
This is true but can you explain how the feedback from a harder tip helps your game? I'm not arguing, just asking.

Jim

Joeyjay
06-11-2008, 03:46 PM
Dents in your wall mean you are blowing the ball off the table. Always break using a half tip below center with a level cue to the table bed, and follow thru level with the cue tip not hitting the cloth. You are probably now hitting down, or creating some kind of jump shot which is air balling whitey into the wild blue yonder. Fore right.

Use less English and you will deflect less and then hit the head ball more square. No matter how you hit the cue ball, jump it, hit it flat, hit the one square, it stays on the table. When you miss it half ball is when it goes off the table.

Rail Rat
06-11-2008, 04:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joeyjay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dents in your wall mean you are blowing the ball off the table. Always break using a half tip below center with a level cue to the table bed, and follow thru level with the cue tip not hitting the cloth. You are probably now hitting down, or creating some kind of jump shot which is air balling whitey into the wild blue yonder. Fore right.

Use less English and you will deflect less and then hit the head ball more square. No matter how you hit the cue ball, jump it, hit it flat, hit the one square, it stays on the table. When you miss it half ball is when it goes off the table. </div></div>

I know how to break Joey, I'm a good player and I was half kidding.
First of all you don't want "any" english on the break, you don't want the QB flying around the table.
The "hard tip" I use allows very little room for error on a power break. Once I missed (which happens to everybody.)

What I was saying was I don't need a harder tip?

Joeyjay
06-11-2008, 05:38 PM
Yes you do, that is like saying in golf, I do not need a more poweful longer straighter driver. Or, I don't want a longer stronger pecker. No such human lives who would say that. Show them one, they will shove $600 in your face in a new york femto second.

Same in pool. Yes, I actually break in both 8 and 9 ball down the middle with no English. Flat ball, for total accurancy hit on the one, and the best spread. These are total power breaks, and My XX, gives me that power. It will add about an extra 25% for you.

But, there are breaks, I sometimes use that do require English, and the plastic tips then fail you.

The side break at 8 ball, the side break in 9 ball, all require one tip of English. You want a power tip that you can use English with. I will use the spin break at 9 ball, on bad cloths.

If I use the soft break at 9 ball, I use my regular playing cue.

Ok, lets do a wrap here, we could continue this discussion until the 2nd coming and use up all of BD's band width and bore poor ole JC into a coma. I dont need it, yes you do, no I don't. Yes you do, no I don't. etc, etc, etc.

I know, you dont. Until you put on an XX and break with it for a week, you will not know. If you do that, then you will know, its for you, it is not for you. Making that call from behind your cpu is not smart. There, here, you learn very little. Put it on, then say you don't like it, then I can live with that answer. Nothing is right for everyone.

If you cant find an XX, I will sell you one for five buckeros, half price, just to show you what you missed. I'd rather you find it from somebody else so nobody thinks I am trying to peddle stuff here, which I am not. Harder is better, in your pecker, in your playing tip, in your break tip. I even use a triangle on my masse cue. Why, there is no grab. You have no idea how long it took me, to lose that one. It took Ray Schuler a year to convince me of that. I tried in vain for 5 years to convince BoB Mooooochie of that and he was too stupid to accept it. Why, he knew everything, his brain did not accept any new incoming data. That is why his company went bankrupt, tanked, and he lost it all. 120 employees went out of work because of his stupidity.

The truth is out there, few will ever see it, or accept it.
Trying to explain that to pool players is like trying to teach a pig to sing. Sing piggie, sing.

Rail Rat
06-11-2008, 06:59 PM
Larry, Is this you again? How many aliases do you have?

How do you know what hardness of tip I need? Get back on your meds, you're spotted a mile away without them.

Incidentally I saw that video you did with the double -table jump- 6 ball pocketed old Willy trick shot. Not bad... but why the strut after? you made a hell of a shot then you look like some kid who fooled mom and got the cookies. Nhya Nhya!... or maybe that was the 56th take.

OK give me the reasons you keep coming back here. Better yet, pick one:

1. You need a friend but lack social skills to go beyond 2 sentences.
2. You have the tenacity of a con trying to break out, only you break in.
3. God knows.

Feel free to add some more if you need to.

Rat

Hass
06-12-2008, 03:25 PM
Yup, it's Fast Larry...he's recycling some of his old ID's hoping to slip by. He used the "georgiekuntz" ID on here in addition to JoeyJay, probably forgetting the fact he already used them on RSB and his own Poolchat(dying) site. Pretty sad actually.

Joeyjay
06-12-2008, 04:39 PM
I do know what hardness tip you need to break with, its simple, XX, since you have never used it, you don't know. My apologies for trying to teach you something new. I shall not make that mistake with you again. You keep breaking with your elkmaster and you be happy.

Lets be friends, no need to argue over something silly like this. You got my opinion, I got your, they differ, so lets simply agree, to disagee.

HALHOULE
06-12-2008, 05:57 PM
YOU ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWERS, SO THE POINT IS MOOT.

1 TIME IN LAS VEGAS

Rail Rat
06-12-2008, 08:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joeyjay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do know what hardness tip you need to break with, its simple, XX, since you have never used it, you don't know. My apologies for trying to teach you something new. I shall not make that mistake with you again. You keep breaking with your elkmaster and you be happy.

Lets be friends, no need to argue over something silly like this. You got my opinion, I got your, they differ, so lets simply agree, to disagee. </div></div>

You misread my post Larry. I said I use a "Talisman very hard" tip now to break. You got so many acts going here, you lost track of the players.

I'm always readdy to learn, hell I learn something new everyday! But tell me something I don't know, read my posts!

Friends, ok, but keep the letters civil. I'm getting too old and life is too short.

Amen brother, pass the Rye.

Rail Rat
06-12-2008, 08:50 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yup, it's Fast Larry...he's recycling some of his old ID's hoping to slip by. He used the "georgiekuntz" ID on here in addition to JoeyJay, probably forgetting the fact he already used them on RSB and his own Poolchat(dying) site. Pretty sad actually. </div></div>

Yeah, he's suckered me in a few times. Keeps things interesting though, it never gets boring with Larry around.

Joeyjay
06-13-2008, 08:24 AM
Dear Mister rat, you said sir:
You misread my post Larry. I said I use a "Talisman very hard" tip now to break. You got so many acts going here, you lost track of the players.
((((((((((((((((((((***))))))))))))))))))))))))))) )))

I don't miss much. There is no such Talisman tip that is called very hard. They are all very hard, that was the message you missed. The are S, M, H, X, XX. I use all of them.
The S is very hard. The M is harder. The H is really hard, the X is hard as hell. The XX is only for breaking. Too hard to play with.
I play with the H, which is the same durometer rating as the single layer Triangle. I do artistic work with the X, power draws, etc. All layered tips, are very hard, none of them, are soft. Elkmaster, is soft.

Don't take my word on it, acquire the Mullers catalog, they have every tip rated from a durometer and then you can compare and see that I am right.

Mister rat, I do not want to sucker you in. But like Bert said to Fast Eddy, with you around, it never gets boring, one thing you are good for, is action, and I love action.

And it was said:
georgiekuntz" ID on here in addition to JoeyJay, probably forgetting the fact he already used them on RSB and his own Poolchat.

All of you post on other forums, I don't have the same right to do so as well? Yes I did register and make my first posts on RSB and on poolchat 2 days ago. Georgie I think was banned here.

Eric.
06-13-2008, 08:53 AM
http://groups.google.com/group/larryguningerisaliar

Joeyjay
06-13-2008, 09:14 AM
Posting a link, to redirect people, off here, to a web site you set up, with all lies, slanders, libels, and untrue frames, shows what kind of person you really are. What normal person, would do such a thing, unless they were sick, very sick, or a psycho?

This is nothing but slander against a pro. This is criminal behavior, and this board should have rules against this, and act on you. Most boards would ban you for this.

How does this help pool? How does this help the board. All this does, is help your sick vendetta.

Hass
06-13-2008, 09:20 AM
Why would you need to register another ID on Poolchat? Doesn't make any sense. You're already Fast Larry on there, already George Kuntz on there and already are OnlinebilliardPro (or something like that). Why create another alias to post on your own board.

Oh, and my name isn't hidden, never has been. It's not "Eric", but you know that already. I'm not from NJ, but you know that already. I'm not from Vancouver, but you know that already. I haven't posted any links to any sites of "lies and slander", but you know that already. Why do you continue to lie? I never proposed betting on anything with you here...but you know that already. Cmon, keep up, will ya?

Deeman3
06-13-2008, 09:29 AM
Eric,

Remind me never, ever to get on your s**t list! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Rail Rat
06-13-2008, 11:18 AM
Dear mister, Joey, George, Larry: (I won't go into the tangled web of AKA's you possess)

I had this tip put on for me. I was asked how hard a tip I needed?... I said very hard. I got it and thats all I give a rats ass about!.. pardon the pun.

As to suckering people in you pretend to be somebody else and its dishonest. For instance you feigned being a beginning player on another post, so I mentioned the simple basics of stroke and wasted my time... whats the point?

Larry...now that I got you here I would like to ask you something I'm sure many of us are wondering..... Why do you have so much animosity for other players and why do you go to such extremes in your claims?

I don't know much about you so because of the exagerations I have to doubt everything you say. We all know you are an advanced player, so why go there?

Fats was a notorious blarney spreader but he somehow remained likeable, you have positioned yourself as the demon version of Fats?

In closing I have a book suggestion for you to read... How to win friends and influence people.

Then maybe living to be 80 won't be so bad.


-Rat

Rich R.
06-14-2008, 07:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joeyjay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What normal person, would do such a thing, unless they were sick, very sick, or a psycho?</div></div>
The only very sick psycho here is the one who keeps comming back, using different names.