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eb_in_nc
05-23-2008, 12:15 PM
Having recently gotten back into playing pool last August after having taken about a 20 year break, I went out and bought a Lucasi cue which hit very solid and nice for under $250. After shooting with it for 6 months or so, I noticed that in some shots the "twang" factor was very high causing me to either miscue or miss the shot. I began reading about squirt and what Predator cues have done with their 314-2 & Z shafts.

Never having shot with one, I decided to purchase a used 5K2 which I have now been shooting with for the last 2 weeks.

My initial observations are that my shots are more truer directionally, but I did have to make some slight adjustments in how I was shooting when using extreme english on the CB.

Overall, I can see this cue being a better weapon in my arsenal since it should help to minimize variation in the way I hit.

I understand that some people like squirt in their cue and was wondering what the inputs were for this school of thought. Also curious about what you did not like about using the Predator shafts.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

Deeman3
05-23-2008, 12:29 PM
eb,

I use both traditional and low squirt shafts, almost interchangably. I do notice a difference, especially at speed but believe I suconsciencousy adjust, not having to think any more than i do compensating for throw, for instance. I just don't think it makes much difference to a good player. You learn to compensate for whatever your shaft/cue does very quickly. If, in my opinion, people are having to make conscienous adjustments to each shot over the squirt in their shaft, they are probably having to think too much to play this game. I will admit, it may make learning easier for new players, although I have not seen the overall shotmaking skill increase across the spectrum with the new shafts.

eb_in_nc
05-23-2008, 12:45 PM
Deeman,

Thanks for the input. My question to you is how you decide which shafts to use when? Or do you just like to introduce an element of change into your game on occasion?

JJFSTAR
05-23-2008, 02:04 PM
For me eb the dampening cues are truly remarkable I have an "I2" the McDermott version. It isn’t quite as squirt free as a predator but it’s the same technology. I do notice that the increased control comes with the price of reduced action in all areas. Some here with strokes that are smooth as glass might not notice the difference as much. So when I have to do something like draw 8ft or force follow into a pack I ask for my young teammates Mucci.

I agree with Deeman I adapted very quickly to my I2 some players that I talked to in the early 90's when the first dampening cue came out had hard times making the adjustment and with the 1st generation predators I really couldn’t shoot with at all, too weird. But the generation 2's I really liked and I did some investigation and decided to go with the new tech myself.

All in all it has increased my use of side english and increased my confidence with it and therefore has improved my game in more ways than one. I still can however still go and take particular shots with a Mucci also I can flip flop. So these sticks will help your game greatly in the long run.

Just remember that you now are forced to use a different cue to break with. Dampening cues have reduced front end mass that’s why they don’t squirt/deflect as much, I have heard a couple of horror stories. A good power breaker can shatter a dampening cue with one of their harder hits. The exception is the “I1” that is a dampening cue and built for jumping and breaking. Good luck with the new equipment.

JoeW
05-23-2008, 02:41 PM
I use only the Predator Z2 for playing. There are far too many things that need adjustment to learn two different cues. I get everything needed with the Predator but do not of course use it for breaking.

I like the idea that I use less english with the Predator as this means less deflection and squirt. I doubt that I will ever return to a regular shaft. After about a one year I find that it is the only shaft I want to use. When I play with other shafts because mine is not with me, they feel somewhat dead to me becasue they require more offset. This is probably just a personal reaction.

The only thing I don't like about using the Predator shaft is that I am not using the shaft that came with my original expensive cue. I feel a little guilty after spending all that money.

Deeman3
05-23-2008, 03:27 PM
Honestly, I think everyone gets a "lift" from new cues, equipment and such by its introduction but I believe its more between the ears than actual long term help for their game. I have argued this strongly for years but could be wrong, of course. I think just a re-focus on the details they may have ignored helps as well and, of course, the industry gets to sell the new stuff. It may be just me but I play as well (or as bad, as the case may be) with many of my 25-30 year old sticks as I do the new ones. I often say that golf has benefitted much from new technology but pool has not, at least from the cue aspect.

Many on here argue with me and say they play much better with a new shaft or cue but I still have not seen it demonstrated over time. I rotate all my shafts for a particular cue pretty regularily, in my case a Schon, so that I don't "favor" one over the other. However, I don't change shafts if I have to stiff hit a length of the table shot with side just because one shaft deflects a little more or less. In fairness, way too much of my competitive pool is on bar tbles lately but I find the same thing on a normal table. If you are running more racks or not missing as many tough shots as before, more power to you. I just don't see it out there. I assure you, if I was trying to sell expensive replacement shafts for cues that did not need one, I'd probably think they were the best thing since sliced bread. But remember, it took me 4o years to quit water buffalo tips. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

dr_dave
05-23-2008, 05:44 PM
Low-squirt cues can have both advantages and disadvantages. Some players can easily adjust to cues with various amounts of squirt. Not all people will prefer a low-squirt cue. For more info, see:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#low_squirt

Regards,
Dave
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eb_in_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having recently gotten back into playing pool last August after having taken about a 20 year break, I went out and bought a Lucasi cue which hit very solid and nice for under $250. After shooting with it for 6 months or so, I noticed that in some shots the "twang" factor was very high causing me to either miscue or miss the shot. I began reading about squirt and what Predator cues have done with their 314-2 & Z shafts.

Never having shot with one, I decided to purchase a used 5K2 which I have now been shooting with for the last 2 weeks.

My initial observations are that my shots are more truer directionally, but I did have to make some slight adjustments in how I was shooting when using extreme english on the CB.

Overall, I can see this cue being a better weapon in my arsenal since it should help to minimize variation in the way I hit.

I understand that some people like squirt in their cue and was wondering what the inputs were for this school of thought. Also curious about what you did not like about using the Predator shafts.

Thanks in advance for your opinions. </div></div>

1Time
05-23-2008, 10:57 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I rotate all my shafts for a particular cue pretty regularily, in my case a Schon, so that I don't "favor" one over the other. </div></div>
I do the opposite. I rotate using my cues and to a lesser extent the tips on them in an effort to find the best cue/tip for 9' tables and best cue/tip for bar boxes.

I conceeded long ago that the differences between a 9' table and bar box are too substantial for me to best overcome with one cue. But my pool shooting history always has been to shoot primarily on one or the other, and so I've always had one cue. However, lately I'm shooting a lot on both, which has prompted my latest search for the best 2 cues/tips, one for 9' tables and one for bar boxes.

--------------

As to squirt and unsquirt, it's whatever works best for you. I tried an unsquirt shaft (black dot) while shooting on a 9' table and hated it, even after spending far too much time trying to adjust. Then later on I learned the tip used on a cue can make a big difference on squirt cues/shafts. So it seems to make sense the tip used can make a big difference with unsquirt cues/shafts.

Bambu
05-24-2008, 07:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eb_in_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having recently gotten back into playing pool last August after having taken about a 20 year break, I went out and bought a Lucasi cue which hit very solid and nice for under $250. After shooting with it for 6 months or so, I noticed that in some shots the "twang" factor was very high causing me to either miscue or miss the shot. I began reading about squirt and what Predator cues have done with their 314-2 & Z shafts.

Never having shot with one, I decided to purchase a used 5K2 which I have now been shooting with for the last 2 weeks.

My initial observations are that my shots are more truer directionally, but I did have to make some slight adjustments in how I was shooting when using extreme english on the CB.

Overall, I can see this cue being a better weapon in my arsenal since it should help to minimize variation in the way I hit.

I understand that some people like squirt in their cue and was wondering what the inputs were for this school of thought. Also curious about what you did not like about using the Predator shafts.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.</div></div>

I am in the same boat as you eb, I have an older predator with a 314. I have been asking around too, and reading up on the z2. Some people love em, others dont care for them. To me its like a cue, just a matter of preference. Personally, I have been waiting to run into someone who has a z2, just to try it. I'm not cheap, but I dont want to get stuck with a shaft I might not like. Sure I can sell it, but thats a hassle. I like my cue the way it is anyway. So if I buy a different shaft, I want to make sure I like it, alot.

JoeW
05-24-2008, 10:37 PM
In my thinking a Z2 compared to a regular shaft is more like a 30-30 compared to a 22. The Z2 is a powerful tool but not suitable for everyone.

Bambu
05-25-2008, 07:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my thinking a Z2 compared to a regular shaft is more like a 30-30 compared to a 22. The Z2 is a powerful tool but not suitable for everyone.</div></div>

I'm gonna sound stupid here, but I dont care. Whats a 30-30, or a 22? Eyesight? Guns?

JJFSTAR
05-25-2008, 10:46 AM
They are calibers of guns Bambu I think JoeW is saying that a regular shaft is like a low caliber (smaller) gun and a Z2 is a larger gun and more powerful. I have shot with a Z2 one of my teammates has one. Another one of my teammates has a generation 1 predator and another has an older Mucci.

For me and my stroke as I said in an earlier post a dampening cue dampens everything. With my teammates old Mucci I can do some wicked stuff specifically with draw. I cannot do those things with my cue; I have an "Intimidator 2" McDermott shaft. It is the same kind of technology as a Z2, Bull’s-eye black dot, 314, cuetec etc… I love it dearly and it has “empowered” me but I am aware of the fact that it is in fact less “powerful” than my teammates Mucci. Again I am just saying this is the case for me.

I don’t think that there is any stick that is "the secret" I think that with all the finer cues that there is a give and a take to all equipment no matter what sport you are talking about.

My belief is that when you reduce squirt/deflection you reduce action. I am not a physics expert but this has been my experience. Maybe Bob can enlighten us as to what is actually the case.

eb_in_nc
05-25-2008, 11:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bambu</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eb_in_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having recently gotten back into playing pool last August after having taken about a 20 year break, I went out and bought a Lucasi cue which hit very solid and nice for under $250. After shooting with it for 6 months or so, I noticed that in some shots the "twang" factor was very high causing me to either miscue or miss the shot. I began reading about squirt and what Predator cues have done with their 314-2 & Z shafts.

Never having shot with one, I decided to purchase a used 5K2 which I have now been shooting with for the last 2 weeks.

My initial observations are that my shots are more truer directionally, but I did have to make some slight adjustments in how I was shooting when using extreme english on the CB.

Overall, I can see this cue being a better weapon in my arsenal since it should help to minimize variation in the way I hit.

I understand that some people like squirt in their cue and was wondering what the inputs were for this school of thought. Also curious about what you did not like about using the Predator shafts.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.</div></div>

I am in the same boat as you eb, I have an older predator with a 314. I have been asking around too, and reading up on the z2. Some people love em, others dont care for them. To me its like a cue, just a matter of preference. Personally, I have been waiting to run into someone who has a z2, just to try it. I'm not cheap, but I dont want to get stuck with a shaft I might not like. Sure I can sell it, but thats a hassle. I like my cue the way it is anyway. So if I buy a different shaft, I want to make sure I like it, alot. </div></div>

Bambu, yes, I hesitate to pick up a Z2 as I fear I might not like it being too rigid. Like you, I would first like to try one first. Plus I'm currently in love with my 314 shaft and don't want to break up this affair!!

eb_in_nc
05-25-2008, 11:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJFSTAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are calibers of guns Bambu I think JoeW is saying that a regular shaft is like a low caliber (smaller) gun and a Z2 is a larger gun and more powerful. I have shot with a Z2 one of my teammates has one. Another one of my teammates has a generation 1 predator and another has an older Mucci.

For me and my stroke as I said in an earlier post a dampening cue dampens everything. With my teammates old Mucci I can do some wicked stuff specifically with draw. I cannot do those things with my cue; I have an "Intimidator 2" McDermott shaft. It is the same kind of technology as a Z2, Bull’s-eye black dot, 314, cuetec etc… I love it dearly and it has “empowered” me but I am aware of the fact that it is in fact less “powerful” than my teammates Mucci. Again I am just saying this is the case for me.

I don’t think that there is any stick that is "the secret" I think that with all the finer cues that there is a give and a take to all equipment no matter what sport you are talking about.

My belief is that when you reduce squirt/deflection you reduce action. I am not a physics expert but this has been my experience. Maybe Bob can enlighten us as to what is actually the case.
</div></div>

JJFSTAR, I agree, with my Lucasi cue I can also get more draw and action on the cue. No doubt this is a function not only of the cue having more defection/squirt, but probably also an artifact of my stroke as well. Even though I got more "action" on the ball with this shaft, I also found that I tended to overhit the ball more whereas using the Predator has kept my ball control more manageable since this is not the case. Where I do find it possibly coming out short is when I do want this extra action but cannot get that result with this particular cue. Maybe in this instance I should have both cues available and select the one I think would work better for a given shot. But I haven't be brazen enough to interrupt my game by doing this as I also don't want to switch hit with the feel during one particular match.

Any feeling about this?

JoeW
05-25-2008, 02:32 PM
Here is my story and I am sticking to it :-)

I have a 19 oz Meucci circa 1994. Not sure if that makes it an “old” one or not. It plays quite well and it has that whippy feel to it. It draws exceedingly well and I have always liked it. Unfortunately it was a present to my daughter and technically it belongs to her so I do not take it out of the house.

I have a Dufferin snooker cue and I would not part with it. I have had it for many years and played a lot of snooker with an ex-brother-in-law in Hamilton, Ontario. I probably played four hour sessions once a month for ten years. Here I learned that I like snooker and the snooker cue. It allows for excellent control and fits my small hands quite well.

When my first wife died about 15 years ago I bought myself a present in an attempt to raise my spirits somewhat. I traded my Scruggs for a 1987 Paul Mottey which is worth a few thousand dollars to day. It came with two shafts and a jump butt. I absolutely love this cue and will never part with it. However, there is always a however isn’t there. Some friends were playing with a 314 and with a Z2. The Z2 appealed to me because of the thinner shaft which is more like a snooker cue. I also found that if I ordered one I could get the 30” shaft. My friend’s 314 played so well that I said what the hell and bought one to fit my Mottey.

The first thing I did, and I highly recommend it to anyone who switches equipment, is to run some real world tests of the differences between the shafts. To conduct my personal test I placed an OB one ball’s width off the foot rail center diamond. The CB was placed at the head of the table center spot. The test was to hit about 40% off center and on the cb (no draw or follow) and aim center ball on the object ball. I estimated 40% because the cue sticks have different diameters that range from 10 mm to nearly 13 mm. How far off center on the OB does the CB hit? This can be assessed by estimating and by using the angle of return for the OB.

I used all of my cue sticks and ran the test at least ten times for each stick keeping track of the estimated off center hit on every shot. I have also tested some other sticks I own and some sticks owned by friends. I have replicated the Z2 shaft test three times and I continue to get similar results (within the standard error of measurement).

Using averages to report the results I found the following

Shaft, error (estimated inches off center on the hit)
Meucci, .4 - .5 inches
Dufferin, .4 - .5 inches
Mottey (with Mottey shaft) .3 - .4 inches
Predator Z2 shaft on a Mottey butt, .2 - .25

It is worth noting that I actually feel guilty about using a Predator shaft on a Mottey cue. Paul does great work and makes a fantastic cue stick in my opinion and it seems wrong to mess with his work. For this reason I shifted back and forth between the Mottey shaft and the Predator shaft for about three months. Finally I just had to give it up and go with the Predator shaft. In general, though I did not calculate percentages of games won, as I am not sure what they would mean given my current bias I think that I play 30 – 40% better with the Mottey It is a powerful tool, similar to my favorite rifle the 30-30 Winchester.

I use less cue tip offset and there is less squirt. Now that I have started to use Joe Tuckers modified BHE I find that the Predator shaft is even more important.

I am not sure what it means to say that one cue has a “dead” hit. Each cue functions differently and takes some getting used to. I am primarily concerned with the tools that will improve my game and learn to get used to the feel of a different cue based on its properties. I am of the opinion that I can probably get more English on a CB with the Meucci than with any other stick I own or use. However, as we all know the game is not about maximum English it is about controlling the CB.

Each person has to decide what is or is not important but I would suggest that some things, like the Predator Z2 is worthy of study.

Fenwick
05-25-2008, 03:38 PM
JoeW or dr_dave,

Shaft, error (estimated inches off center on the hit)
Meucci, .4 - .5 inches
Dufferin, .4 - .5 inches
Mottey (with Mottey shaft) .3 - .4 inches
Predator Z2 shaft on a Mottey butt, .2 - .25

Interesting but I'm still confused. I have also been contemplating a The Predator Z-2 shaft, 11.75 mm with a European taper. I have a low deflection 13.25 mm and hate how bulky it is. My standard shaft is 1984 vintage, 11.96 mm and very whippy. Hard shots and I get a lot of squirt or throw on the Cue ball. My questions are, does it effected your ability to get draw or follow Has it or does it make you use less or more English? And last are you saying the room for error is less or more. I'm trying to make a informed decision not end up shooting the messenger. I'm not basing my decision on your reply. I have peed away more $ on less value adding toys so that is not the issue. The decision is in the end in my hands. Kung Fu or Confucius?


Thank you.

JoeW
05-25-2008, 06:19 PM
The Z2 is about 11.75 MM diameter or there abouts.

My ability to draw has not changed with the Z2. However, I do not have a reliable powerful draw compared to some others. I can only pull the cue back about 6 diamonds from 6 diamonds away (on a good day). I do think that I am better able to cntrol the draw with the Z2 but this may be personal bias as I have been paying much more attention to CB hit for some time now.

Follow on the vertical axis only does not change with any of my shafts.

I use about 1/2 or less the "usual" english with the Z2. I think that the reduced end mass of the cue stick is the reason. I also think that this is what improves my game. There is less off set, less error and yet better accuracy and positon.

Unless you like a snooker type cue, it does take time to get used to the new technology, but it was time well spent in my opinion.

I think I see what you mean by error. The "standard error of measurment" is a statistical term that allows one to estimate how reliable a set of measurments were (or will be). Smaller standard errors of measurement are indicative of better measurments. Technically, the measured differences I found with regard to the Z2 are "real" differences and these differences would be found if I repeated the studies in the same way.

The differences found between the Meucci, Dufferin and probbably the Mottey regular shaft are not different enough, given the error of measuremnt, to say that these cues yield different different results.

This is like saying that an average of 9 is different from measurements of 3,4,5 but that 3,4,5 do not have a real difference from each other. Next time the measurements might be 8 vs 5,3,4

While I did not conduct a formal statistical analysis I would like to think that the Z2 and the Mottey shaft are in the same group, but It probably would not hold up under a rigorous statistical analysis. The data are around somewhere, but more importantly my game kept getting better and that is the bottom line.

Fenwick
05-25-2008, 06:54 PM
Yes; you see I worked in .25,000,000-.50,000,000 tolerances at 72 degrees when a machinist. So your example of, Shaft, error (estimated inches off center on the hit) Meucci, .4 - .5 inches Dufferin, .4 - .5 inches Mottey (with Mottey shaft) .3 - .4 inches Predator Z2 shaft on a Mottey butt, .2 - .25 seemed like a mile to me.
"I think I see what you mean by error."
"The "standard error of measurment" is a statistical term that allows one to estimate how reliable a set of measurments were (or will be). Smaller standard errors of measurement are indicative of better measurments. Technically, the measured differences I found with regard to the Z2 are "real" differences and these differences would be found if I repeated the studies in the same way."
Yes you are correct. Thanks again!

Bambu
05-25-2008, 07:36 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJFSTAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are calibers of guns Bambu I think JoeW is saying that a regular shaft is like a low caliber (smaller) gun and a Z2 is a larger gun and more powerful. I have shot with a Z2 one of my teammates has one. Another one of my teammates has a generation 1 predator and another has an older Mucci.

For me and my stroke as I said in an earlier post a dampening cue dampens everything. With my teammates old Mucci I can do some wicked stuff specifically with draw. I cannot do those things with my cue; I have an "Intimidator 2" McDermott shaft. It is the same kind of technology as a Z2, Bull’s-eye black dot, 314, cuetec etc… I love it dearly and it has “empowered” me but I am aware of the fact that it is in fact less “powerful” than my teammates Mucci. Again I am just saying this is the case for me.

I don’t think that there is any stick that is "the secret" I think that with all the finer cues that there is a give and a take to all equipment no matter what sport you are talking about.

My belief is that when you reduce squirt/deflection you reduce action. I am not a physics expert but this has been my experience. Maybe Bob can enlighten us as to what is actually the case.
</div></div>

Thanks JJF. I suppose thats an interesting way to classify a cue, in terms of power. And thats a good point about the action and deflection. I dont know if they go hand in hand. I imagine if they did though, a shaft that was tough to get spin wouldnt be very effective.
But the predator claim is that for most shots you dont need to adjust for deflection. But after years of having to do just that, I dont think I want to have to re-adjust my whole game. For people learning english though, I could see a "less or no deflection" shaft being an advantage.

JoeW
05-26-2008, 07:56 AM
It was just an off hand comparison Bambu. I have used several different rifles over the years and have settled in on one I like the best for many reasons.

I can appreciate the idea that someone who has played for many years and learned to compensate for throw, squirt etc might prefer not to change. At my age I can think of many different areas in my life that are not going to change because I prefer the ways I have learned.

BTW I think it is actually easier to control the spin when spin and accuracy are important. I understand the term dampenig but have not observed it in my use. Then too mabye I do not have the sensitivity to a hit that JJF and others have.

I believe I read somewhere that Bob Jewett took the ferrele (SP) off of one of his sticks to reduce end mass and that it may be his primary playing cue. Not sure here but Bob will probably comment if he is around.

Bambu
05-26-2008, 08:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was just an off hand comparison Bambu. I have used several different rifles over the years and have settled in on one I like the best for many reasons.

I can appreciate the idea that someone who has played for many years and learned to compensate for throw, squirt etc might prefer not to change. At my age I can think of many different areas in my life that are not going to change because I prefer the ways I have learned.

BTW I think it is actually easier to control the spin when spin and accuracy are important. I understand the term dampenig but have not observed it in my use. Then too mabye I do not have the sensitivity to a hit that JJF and others have.

I believe I read somewhere that Bob Jewett took the ferrele (SP) off of one of his sticks to reduce end mass and that it may be his primary playing cue. Not sure here but Bob will probably comment if he is around.
</div></div>

Sorry Joe, that term just wouldnt sink in for me. I have a whole collection of guns and rifles too, but dont know much about them(inheritance). When I hear 30/30 I am thinking 30 homers and 30 steals.
Because you and many others have raved about the z2, I am still open to trying one out. Like most men, I am about as loyal as my options! I'd like to know how many pros like the z2. I know many like predator, but I dunno about the z2 in particular. That would weigh alot in my mind.
Also interesting is the way Bob plays without a ferrule, I remember reading that as well. But when all is said and done, guys like bob could still run out with any decent house cue.

eb_in_nc
05-26-2008, 12:18 PM
An interesting observation is to take each cue by holding the butt and invoke the end of the shaft into resonance by knocking it against your hand like you would with a tuning fork, and watch the vibrations.

The 314 shaft has a more settled and defined natural resonance as
compared to the Lucasi shaft which also seems to have more second and third order resonances associated with it, and it takes this shaft a longer time to reach steady state.

Thank you everyone for your input on this thread. For me, I will stick with the Predator shaft as I believe reducing any sort of variation (deflection) will make for a more controlled response - hence better shot making.

JJFSTAR
05-26-2008, 01:00 PM
Bambu I highly recommend the new technology of the dampening cues, the "regular" sticks IMHO are for me volatile when I am at long range and have to follow or draw with firm left or right engilsh for positional reasons; great shape does nothing if you miss the OB.

There are now many sticks of this type available the OB-1, Bulls-eye black dot, McDermott “I” series, 314, Z2 etc… I haven’t shot with all of them but I can say that my I2 hits almost identically to a Z2, one of my teammates has a Z2 and it is what convinced me to go high tech. Therefore I theorize that the dampening cues all hit with a similar feel except for the 1st generation ones.

Joe back in the early 90’s I shot with the 1st generation predators and I can only describe the feeling I got with them as “dead”. They just lacked any action at all, I at that time shot exclusively with a standard McDermott. One of my teammates shoots with a Mucci that I think is from the 80’s. It has a hit that if compared to a rifle is more like a cannon. It has a ferrule that is about a foot long and full table draw is a medium stroke. BTW Joe 6 diamonds from 6 diamonds is quite powerful draw. My practice routine involves from headstring to footstring coming back to cross the headstring and that’s only 4 diamonds from 4 diamonds. But I have on a good day been able to do that with a whole rack of balls (15) consecutively.

Hope to shoot with you soon. League is over and Dee’s Café 1 I am happy to announce has won the flight 2 championship it all ended on a 7ft table that I ran out 2 consecutive racks on to win the whole thing. The 26th game was quite memorable for me on the 8 ball I looked at my team and several of them had their hands over their eyes and heads down and the others were hands together in prayer. I disrupted my pre-shot routine with the chugging of a 16oz lager and then sent Othello into the pocket. It was as exhilarating as being on stage and getting a standing ovation in my younger days.

Bambu
05-26-2008, 02:46 PM
Thanks JJ, but aside from performance, how is the feel? And what does it sound like? I guess it shouldnt matter, but I have heard they sound funny. I was looking at the ob-1 too, but its got a weird looking wood ferrule. I know, I am picky.
Maybe the z2 yields more spin because it has an 11.75 tip. Back in the day I remember a few good players having narrower shafts custom made, and more spin was the claim.

JJFSTAR
05-26-2008, 10:31 PM
Bambu the sound is very different the "feel" has probably more to do with the cue maker and that is probably like the "feel" of the I2 over the Z2 it is probably more psychological rather than the scientific specifications of the cue.

What do you shoot with now? If you shoot with a Mucci I would suggest that you go with a Mucci Bulls-eye black dot, if you shoot with a McDermott I would suggest the I2 BTW I have a good deal on equipment PM if you are interested.

The switch to a dampening cue for me was quick and easy; it isn’t so for some; some people need to switch back and fourth for some time in competition play before it returns to being an extension of their arm as it once was with a “regular” shaft, it is especially true IMHO for those who have shot with whippy high action cues all their lives.

The sound may take some getting used to but the feel would be closer to the cue that you shoot with now and their expression of what a dampening cue should hit like rather than some capriciously chosen shaft. So it is my opinion that you should choose a cue makers expression of a dampening cue, not just some random cue that someone told you is the best shaft ever.

Bambu come over to the low squirt/deflection cue, don’t be afraid of the adjustment; it may be very minor and if its major I recommend making this adjustment; the rewards may be enormous, the rewards for me were unbelievable.

Bambu
05-27-2008, 09:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJFSTAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bambu the sound is very different the "feel" has probably more to do with the cue maker and that is probably like the "feel" of the I2 over the Z2 it is probably more psychological rather than the scientific specifications of the cue.

What do you shoot with now? If you shoot with a Mucci I would suggest that you go with a Mucci Bulls-eye black dot, if you shoot with a McDermott I would suggest the I2 BTW I have a good deal on equipment PM if you are interested.

The switch to a dampening cue for me was quick and easy; it isn’t so for some; some people need to switch back and fourth for some time in competition play before it returns to being an extension of their arm as it once was with a “regular” shaft, it is especially true IMHO for those who have shot with whippy high action cues all their lives.

The sound may take some getting used to but the feel would be closer to the cue that you shoot with now and their expression of what a dampening cue should hit like rather than some capriciously chosen shaft. So it is my opinion that you should choose a cue makers expression of a dampening cue, not just some random cue that someone told you is the best shaft ever.

Bambu come over to the low squirt/deflection cue, don’t be afraid of the adjustment; it may be very minor and if its major I recommend making this adjustment; the rewards may be enormous, the rewards for me were unbelievable.
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Only around 6 mos ago I used one cue for everything except the break. Since then I have let BD talk me into buying a jump cue, a break cue, a scruggs cue, almost bought the ball cleaner, and now the z2. But I have to say, everyone here knows their sh*t. I'm not upset with any of the purchases, they all serve their purposes. And I was eyeballing the z2 anyway, so I wont be blaming this one on you JJ, or BD.
I have a few of cues, but I seem to like my predator best. I think its the 4k line with a regular 314. (There is no 2 after the 314.) What year did the 314-2 come out? I dont play any better with my schon, scruggs, or meucci, but no worse either.