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Gayle in MD
05-29-2008, 09:27 AM
<span style="color: #000066">Bravo,
Perhaps there is still a shot at bringing the traitors and war criminals to justice. </span>
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/33686

Wexler: McClellan Must Testify Under Oath Before House Judiciary Committee
Submitted by davidswanson on Wed, 2008-05-28 19:20. Congress
Former White House Aide’s Revelations Make Out Case for Obstruction of Justice by Rove and Libby in Valerie Plame Case

(Washington, DC) Today Congressman Robert Wexler (D-FL) called for former White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan to appear before the House Judiciary Committee to testify under oath regarding the devastating revelations made in his new book on the Bush Administration’s deliberate efforts to mislead the American people into the Iraq War.

“The admissions made by Scott McClellan in his new book are earth-shattering and allege facts to establish that Karl Rove and Scooter Libby – and possibly Vice President Cheney - conspired to obstruct justice by lying about their role in the Plame Wilson matter and that the Bush Administration deliberately lied to the American people in order to take us to war in Iraq. Scott McClellan must now appear before the House Judiciary Committee under oath to tell Congress and the American people how President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Scooter Libby, and White House officials deliberately orchestrated a massive propaganda campaign to sell the war in Iraq to the American people.”

“The allegations by this former top White House aide – that Rove and Libby deliberately coordinated their stories in order to obstruct justice in the Plame case, that the President deliberately disregarded contradictory evidence related to Iraq, should outrage every American and Congress must respond by initiating immediate aggressive oversight starting with an appearance by McClellan before the House Judiciary Committee. Any continued obstruction by this Administration to prevent White House officials from appearing before Congress cannot be tolerated by this Congress in the face of these shocking revelations.”

Congressman Wexler has led a nationwide campaign in favor of holding impeachment hearings for Vice-President Dick Cheney. Congressman Wexler is Chairman of the Europe Subcommittee and a senior member of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs and the House Judiciary Committee.

LWW
05-29-2008, 10:28 AM
Your link does not substantiate the claim made in your thread's title.

Why is that?

LWW

wolfdancer
05-29-2008, 01:06 PM
I hope that he will have to testify...however, I suspect that the
"dirty tricks" division of this admin, will prevent this under the guise of national security.......
Has there ever been a Presidency, where so many associates have "turned" against their leader?
lww thinks he has discredited your post with his "sharp" retort.
I'd go over to AZB to check that out, but every time I read that sh*t,one of his bragging posts...I get a sympathetic reaction, a peristaltic wave
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/Peristaltic.jpg/180px-Peristaltic.jpg

hondo
05-29-2008, 02:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hope that he will have to testify...however, I suspect that the
"dirty tricks" division of this admin, will prevent this under the guise of national security.......
Has there ever been a Presidency, where so many associates have "turned" against their leader?
lww thinks he has discredited your post with his "sharp" retort.
I'd go over to AZB to check that out, but every time I read that sh*t,one of his bragging posts...I get a sympathetic reaction, a peristaltic wave
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/Peristaltic.jpg/180px-Peristaltic.jpg </div></div>

When I first posted the link on AZ about McClellan, Dub
ranted that he must have been bribed.
Now as more and more comes out, he has been silent.
I'm sure he and his cronies over there are frantically
googling the right wing sites trying to find some ammo. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

wolfdancer
05-29-2008, 02:56 PM
Hondo, it turns out that McCellan lied....according to Rice, and if you can't trust Rice, who can you trust Dubja?, Dub?

pooltchr
05-29-2008, 06:38 PM
I hope he has to testify as well. It will be interesting to see if he even knows what was written in "his" book. I doubt very seriously if he actually wrote it. And I think anyone who wants to dig a little bit might be surprised at some of the names associated with the publisher. Think "G.S.".
Steve

hondo
05-29-2008, 09:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hope he has to testify as well. It will be interesting to see if he even knows what was written in "his" book. I doubt very seriously if he actually wrote it. And I think anyone who wants to dig a little bit might be surprised at some of the names associated with the publisher. Think "G.S.".
Steve </div></div>


Yep. It smells a whole lot like that Swift Boat Scam that
Rove pulled off, doesn't it?

jayalley
05-29-2008, 09:39 PM
Aw, heck, little Gayle, you caught us again!!!
And we thought Scotty was the real deal!!
We can't fool you, can we ???

wolfdancer
05-30-2008, 01:08 AM
she caught you again by citing a news article?????????
You're about as sharp with your replies as lww...

wolfdancer
05-30-2008, 01:18 AM
Gayle, you seem to be attracting all the folks with no substance in their replies...but they think the H.S. trash talking proves how clever they are.
"you caught us again"...
It's obvious from that reply and the one he made to me...he's just over here to make a "name" for himself...maybe wants to unseat lww as the #1 **** on the board.
Well, just another post I can skip over, while trying to find something interesting here....

DickLeonard
05-30-2008, 07:29 AM
Wolfdancer I thought he was as sharp as LWW of course everyone knows my high regard for Lww.####

Gayle in MD
05-30-2008, 08:24 AM
Richard Clarke was on this morning, MSNBC, and has written a new book, I think the title was, Your Country Failed You, which is what he stated the morning he testified, only he added then, <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and I failed you, </div></div>followed by an apoligy. He was the man they refused to listen to as he struggled to try to get this administration's attention onto the threats that led to 9/11.

When you think that when Tenent presented Bush with what intel they could scrape together for their pre-war propaganda for invading Iraq, Bush said, "Is this all we have?" I don't know how anyone could try to say that Bush wasn't aware that Intelligence fell far short of building a case against WMD's in Iraq.

McClellan has stated that he would testify, under oath, which is far more straight forward, and honest, than Rove, who refuses to raise his hand and take an oath.

Cheney may have led the bastards in outing Plame to quell Joe Wilson's exposure of the administration's lies, but the one thing about McClellan's statements which I don't agree with, is that he doesn't think Bush knew what they were doing. He's being too nice, IMO, to fall short on what is obvious. Bush sits down with Cheney everyday for lunch, and nothing is discussed about how they're going to deal with Wilosn's article, yeah, right. McClellan just doesn't want to say right out that Bush was involved, but he sure as hell knows that Bush is the one who de-classified intelligence in order to try to protect his bunch of thugs.

The White House sends their thugs out to trash McClellan, and they all use the same damned word, "Puzzled" LMAO, what is so amazing is how damed stupid they must think Americans are, but then, 20% are, and atleast five of those post on this site!

McClellan's book is big, because it fully supports all the other books, Fiasco, Hubris, State Of Denial, The Greatest Story Ever Sold, Worse Than Watergate, and many more. Hence, this book from an insider, who was used and ruined, as so many others who get involved with this bunch of thug Christians, lol, end up, ruined, and used, and made to be the fall guys for the crooks at the top.

I applaud McClellan, and I'm just sorry that after Libby's conviction, when his wife walked over to him and said, "Dont worry, we're going to F**k em', that the news media heard her, and then Bush got the heads up, and sent them his promise to see that Libby never spent a night in jail,... too bad, I'd have loved to have read Libby's version, had he, too been fed up, tainted, used, abused and thrown under the bus, like so many others.

In McClellan's case, they pushed him right out after they destroyed his reputation. I hope he sells a zillion copies, and also testifies.

As for the idiots who attack because they cannot deal with more and more evidence of how damned stupid they've been all along, Nothing is more invigorating than knowing they are still showing how nasty and ill they are, but I don't have to read their posts to know what's in them, I already know what they are, what to expect, and what's behind their filth....embarrassment, over being proven, over and over, to be the real sheep, and stinkier than ever!

Clarke and McClellan, David Quo, and all the other whistle blowers have my utmost admiration, along with Helen Thomas, the only reporter with enough guts to stand up for democracy, and the only journalist who wasn't a lap dog for Bush!

Love,
Gayle

wolfdancer
05-30-2008, 11:16 AM
Gayle, the early knocks (here) on Scott's book are
1) he didn't write it
and
2) he wrote it for the money
this of course, in lww and company's train of logic, somehow
proves the book is nothing but lies.
I guess that all them "turncoat" authors are really members of some left wing cabal???

eb_in_nc
05-30-2008, 11:50 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gayle, the early knocks (here) on Scott's book are
1) he didn't write it
and
2) he wrote it for the money
this of course, in lww and company's train of logic, somehow
proves the book is nothing but lies.
I guess that all them "turncoat" authors are really members of some left wing cabal??? </div></div>

No, he wrote it to bring justice to the table because he's an American hero. I guess that's what you're thinking at least. If justice was to be served, he would have done this on public TV without the benefit of becoming potentially rich in the process. One could only surmise that the fact he has written a book suggests he's a weasel dressed like a patriot.

You need to take off your "polarizing lenses" and look at things for what they truly are rather than making simple minded inferences.

sack316
05-30-2008, 01:21 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gayle, the early knocks (here) on Scott's book are
1) he didn't write it
and
2) he wrote it for the money
this of course, in lww and company's train of logic, somehow
proves the book is nothing but lies.
I guess that all them "turncoat" authors are really members of some left wing cabal??? </div></div>

kind of like I said the appearances would seem in another thread due to the WAY he's done this. The timing, the press surrounding it, his interviews... all seem fishy. I'm not gonna say that it isn't true, on the contrary I'm sure at least most of it is... but as I said in the other thread anyone worth their salt is gonna spin this and question it into obscurity--- at the very least leaving several doubts in the mind of the public.

I mean look at it, we've got a guy with no job---who would likely be selling insurance or cars or something in Texas if not for the people he's outing right now---writing about something that's NOT new, that if I'm not mistaken 11 other authors that were in some forms "insiders" have already broached--- who waited 2 years and just happened to release information for sale during on of the hottest and most controversial times in our nation, also just happening to pop out during an election.

Now do any of these above mentioned things have any merit? I suppose it's in the eye of the beholder... surely for the left any negative press towards this admin and the right is the gospel at present time, and for the right ANY knock or questions about the guy that can be found are reasons to question the motives and facts. So is he a genuinely guilty person who wants to spread the truth to the American people as best he knows how, or is he an opportunist trying to make a quick buck? This I honestly don't know... but he is the former White House press secretary for a very controversial administration... somehow I think had he simply wanted to get the truth out there, the air time on television and a few pages in magazine would have been made available to him... as he obviously knows given all this free advertising he's getting.

Sack

wolfdancer
05-30-2008, 01:59 PM
and your post does just that?
I wrote that the two early knocks were he did it for the money, and he didn't write it...and somehow this proves the book a lie?

that was it with my polarizing lenses...but you with yours on have now decided that he is a weasel dressed like a patriot.??????
If you want to add some commentary to a post...at least make it make some sense
I don't heed to do sh*t...but maybe you need to proof read your posts....?????????????????????????????????????
By the way...if it is the truth...that should be troubling to anyone with a conscience, anyone that cares about the ruined lives of all our maimed soldiers...more then some partisan politics.....course that lets you out....

Gayle in MD
06-04-2008, 10:02 AM
Wolf,
I am not reading any of their posts, and lovin' it! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

But, back to the subject, which is Scott McClellan!

We knew, without reading any of the posts from the righties on here, that this book would put their many posts hair splitting denials, and their on-going, illogical objections to rhelms of documentation on the Bush administration's many illegal, decietful, and incompetent actions, right in the category where they have always been, denials of desparation! Attacks on the messengers of truth, such as Scott McClellan, have been their hallmark throughout the long exposure of Bush administration decit and incompetence.

I've heard quite a number of Mr. McClellan's interviews, by now, and I do believe that he is attempting serve our country by exposing mentality of Bush, Rice, Cheney, Rove, and others, along with their many lies and failures, which the rest of us must now pay for, but not nearly as dearly as our troops have, and proved that the Bush administration is basically composed of thugs, who thought they were above the law.

The tragedy would be that they get away with everything they've done. That will hurt our country tremendously, as we now need to make an example of what this great country of ours does, when it has been decieved, manipulated, and abused by un-american thugs.

It is my hope, that the coming months will bring about an indictment of Karl Rove, and Harriet Meyers, and atleast some kind of sanction against Cheney, who was clearly the leader in traitorous and treacherous plan to out a covert CIA Agent, as punishment for Mr. Wilson's attempt to clue the rest of us in on what they were up to from the start.

Over four thousand Americans, now dead, and many, many more whose lives have been ruined, should insure that these criminals would be met with nothing but contempt from all Americans. I can only say that those who refuse to acknowledge the truth about what they did, are not patriots, are not keepers of our democracy, are not Americans of high intention, but the lowest form of partisan traitors themselves, to continue to deny what is clearly factual to the vast majority of Americans. Any endeavor, on their parts, to praise what can only be viewed as the most anti-American administration in history, and the only one that has ever attacked our country from within, leaving severe damage, (that possibly may never be undone) and disillusionment for most Americans, is surely repulsive, to say the least.

I think that Bush's complete disregard for our collective grief, which all Americans were experiencing after 9/11, and his documented efforts to capitalize on what was a great American tragedy, in order to decieve and manipulate the country, was the lowest behavior I have ever witnessed in my lifetime.

I believe that Mr. McClellan grew more and more alarmed as he learned more about who and what George Bush really is, and that when he learned that Bush himself, had been the leaker through his de-clessification of classified information, inlcuding the identity of a covert agent, that that was for him, the very last straw, and brought about his eventual efforts to write a book which would serve as a warning to Americans about how demanding we must be when any president begins to promote a cause for war, and to warn us that we cannot rely on the American Press corps, journalists, cable network news, and certainly not the White HOuse Press Secretary, for the truth, but should instead, pay very close attention to those government servants who throw out warning flares to their fellow Americans.

We now know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they were all telling us the truth, and the Bush Administration, was lying throughout. Only one man in still prominent in the public arena promoting those same old lies, and that is John McCain.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
06-04-2008, 10:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">kind of like I said the appearances would seem in another thread due to the WAY he's done this. The timing, the press surrounding it, his interviews... all seem fishy. I'm not gonna say that it isn't true, on the contrary I'm sure at least most of it is... but as I said in the other thread anyone worth their salt is gonna spin this and question it into obscurity--- at the very least leaving several doubts in the mind of the public.

<span style="color: #000066">I don't agree, Sack. I think that Americans who have been watching, and reading, and trying throughout to secure the truth, will embrace Mr. McClellan's book as an additional commentary to what we already knew was true. And as for the timing, I think that yes, he was hoping that his truthful accounts would serve as a warning, and give pause to Americans who must now make yet another decision about which candidate is saying what is so, and which candidate is still spreading lies, and inuendo regarding this tragic national security disaster in Iraq. </span>

I mean look at it, we've got a guy with no job---who would likely be selling insurance or cars or something in Texas if not for the people he's outing right now <span style="color: #000066">May I ask, does that statement mean that you it would have been more admirable of him to protect the lies and treacherous actions by this administration because he wanted to pay them back for giving him a job, rather than stand up for the truth, and warn Americans about what they did? </span> ---writing about something that's NOT new, that if I'm not mistaken 11 other authors that were in some forms "insiders" have already broached--- who waited 2 years and just happened to release information for sale during on of the hottest and most controversial times in our nation, also just happening to pop out during an election.

<span style="color: #000066">It may interest you to know that Mr. McClellan has stated, that Yes, he is hoping that his book will bring about a wiser more informed American public, before they must go into the voting booth next November. And also that he hopes that in the future, when a president asks the American people to go to war, that we will insist on far more extensive proof for its necessity, and be more fully aware of the kinds of political interests, and propaganda tactics, which were used by this most decietful administration.</span>

Now do any of these above mentioned things have any merit? I suppose it's in the eye of the beholder... surely for the left any negative press towards this admin and the right is the gospel at present time, <span style="color: #000066">No, not gospel, but lessons which we must keep close to our hearts, and in our minds, in order to insure that never again will we be lied into going to war un-necessarily. </span> and for the right ANY knock or questions about the guy that can be found are reasons to question the motives and facts. <span style="color: #000066">Yes, sadly, that is true, and also the reason why over four thousand Americans are now dead, un-necessarily, and why we are in the financial mess we are in at present, without our former high authrotiy, without our former respect in the world, and also in nine trillions plus debt, with a crumbling infrastructure, and a disillusioned public. </span> So is he a genuinely guilty person who wants to spread the truth to the American people as best he knows how, or is he an opportunist trying to make a quick buck? This I honestly don't know... but he is the former White House press secretary for a very controversial administration... somehow I think had he simply wanted to get the truth out there, the air time on television and a few pages in magazine would have been made available to him... as he obviously knows given all this free advertising he's getting.

<span style="color: #000066">You have just given us a reminder of the very right wing philosophy which led us to this unending and horrible no-win situation in which our own brave soldiers still struggle and die to this day, needlessly, and for nothing. It is obvious, to me atleast, and I suspect to others here who have been reading and writing about this administration for over seven years now, that you still cling to the hope that not only Mr. McClellan, but all those brave Americans who went before him, in an effort to tell the truth, and warn Americans about this administration, were the culprits, not this lying lowdown bunch of crooks in the White House. Forgive me, but how in the world can you STILL justify that philosophy?</span>

Sack </div></div>

Gayle in MD
06-04-2008, 10:38 AM
LOL, George Sorros, LMAO! That is the new tactic of the wing nuts, just haul out good ol' George's name, and that will dispell any information that continues to pile up provoing that George Bush and the rest of his liars, are liars!

It is truly comical reading the protests of the ignorant! but then, they will be soon voting for a man who doesn't know the difference between Sunni and Shiia, doesn't even know how mamy troops are presently still in Iraq. Doesn't even know who the supreme leader of Iran, is! But they know one thing, we could have won the war in Vietnam!

Honestly, their efforts to discredit anyone who exposes the filthy methods of the Bush Administration are truly laughable! McClellan has made it impossible for them to continue to split hairs over the documentation which grows daily against this corrupt, ioncompetenct, lying administration. They just can't accept their own stupidity for defending crooks for seven years! Worse than crooks, traitors!

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
06-04-2008, 10:48 AM
Who is LWW?

Hey, regarding Rove's refusal to testify, don't you find it amusing that none of these wing nuts question for one moment why Rove is refusing to be sworn in to testify?

Rove doesn't have a leg to stand on. Aides are not given executive priveledge. All of Nixon's aides, and even his legal counsel, testified. Executive priveledge has been abused enough already, and the court has already ruled against Bush several times. I don't think they can risk more public outcry. The only way Rove can get out of testifying is if Scalia steps in once again, to save Bush's ass. I hardly think that the Supreme Court will risk more public outcry at this time, given the public is just a hair away from protesting on the steps of the Supreme Court, as it is.

The separation of powers have been damaged, and I believe the court is now aware of that. The congress will have no problem, in an election year, composing enough outcry against further protection for this illegal administration. Rove will either testify, or Rove will finally go where he has belonged for decades, to jail!

Gayle in Md.

sack316
06-04-2008, 12:20 PM
Gayle, good to see ya dear! missed ya /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> you still cling to the hope that not only Mr. McClellan, but all those brave Americans who went before him, in an effort to tell the truth, and warn Americans about this administration, were the culprits, not this lying lowdown bunch of crooks in the White House. </div></div>

Actually, I do believe I said that in all likelihood most of what he wrote was probably true. But, also please keep in mind that he WAS one of those culprits in the white house for some time. A fair comparrison: Just as we will always question Obama's decision making with the church issue, i.e. "how did you sit there for 20 years and NOT realize what it/they were", I'm sure it's possible Mr. McClellan may have been fooled/ lied to etc. But he comes off as halfway intelligent at least, surely he woulda figured something out long before he was not in his position. SO it stands to reason that either A) Maybe he's not all THAT smart, as apparently the entire left side of this country figured things out long before he did... and he was right there! or B) Maybe he is actually smart and knew about things, but simply didn't care and contributed to the numerous lies you refer to for some period of time. Either way, he's still not my prime choice for seeking truth. And that is NOT because of some right wing philosophy... that is because of the circumstance surrounding it... and even regardless of that, is it any different for a righty to discredit it along the same lines of reasoning the left accepts it all as truth? If that is the case and the way things should be, then I suppose I should take Vanity Fair's article about Bill and run with it, as those sources have been referred to as "insiders". But to me, much like this book, I think the circumstances lead me closer to believing that it's a quick attempt to sell magazines rather than exposing a complete truth for altruistic reasons. But I'm sure by your line of thinking that I will choose to not believe McClellan but will choose to trust Todd Purdum. Somehow I feel that would be wrong... and at the same time I also feel that inverting that statement would be viewed as correct?

I do, however, like how you manage to throw in fallen soldiers into the conversation in which I merely questioned McClellans intentions rather than his facts... quoting a post from me which in no way mentioned the war or praised this administration, nothing close to it actually. A nice little trick to have one sentence be the "attention grabber", where one may read it and focus on that one statement and couldn't possibly disagree... thus leading a reader to a conclusion that they must agree with your statements in their entirety. One day, when I run for office, I want you as a writer and advisor!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It may interest you to know that Mr. McClellan has stated... </div></div>

nah, doesn't really interest me what the man states. Not for the reasons you think, but for the other reasons I've mentioned. Just as things he stated didn't really interest you until now

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> May I ask, does that statement mean that you it would have been more admirable of him to protect the lies and treacherous actions by this administration because he wanted to pay them back for giving him a job, rather than stand up for the truth </div></div>

No darling, I don't find him admirable at all. Not now, and not before. He had a history with these people beforehand... it is only now that his work can be used to help the liberal agenda that democrats will give him any merit. Had he written a tell all book which portrayed the last several years in a positive light, you would be posting about how he probably was snorting lines through a McDonald's straw with Bush. We already know he's a liar, because I surely can't think he was naive the entire time he held his position... whether he's telling a complete truth now or not still can be called into question, which has been my point all along. The problem I have is not with the message, it's with the messenger.

On a side note, again I missed ya the last several days! Hope you were having a fun adventure in whatever you've been doing! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Sack

Gayle in MD
06-04-2008, 01:25 PM
Thanks, I was having a ball in my new littel Boston Whaler that Jim bought me for my birthday/anniversary. We were in Ocean City, staying on our other boat, and I had a ball fishing and digging clams, and crabbing in the bay, where I can't take the big boat, because the sands shift so much, people are always bending their props, and the other boat draws about four feet.

I caught some nice flounder, and there is nothing I enjoy more than catching fish and cooking them the same day, and since I caught some crabs, and got some clams, we had quite a seafood feast, clams casino, and Imperial Crab, stuffed flounder, with a lemmon and butter, peppercorn sauce. It was YUM!

And as for your post, I always like McClellan. Actually, his book made sense to me, because he did seem naive' to me, and seemed like the kind of guy who is devoted, trusting, and also would be resistant to believing anything bad about someone he felt close to, so I felt very proud of him, for speaking out, once he knew that Bush was such a liar. It actually made sense to me that once he learned that Bush had been behind the de-classification of Valarie Plame's identity, he realized for the first time what kind of man George Bush really was. He is very believable during interviews, and I think it is clear, that he isn't coming out of any hatred, but out of his own patriotism, and concerns about our country.

The fact is, Bush ruined the man. Why would a man who believed in, and supported, and worked for another man, maintain any respect or loyalty to him, after he learned that man was such a liar, and had actually ruined him, for political purposes, to cover up his own lies and illegal actions, destroying his credibility in the process.

McClellan, is much kinder to Bush than I would be, since I don't think McClellan actually believes for one minute that Bush didn't know what Cheney and Rove and Libby were up to all along.
I just think that he could only write about what he could prove, and that is what he did.

I don't think McClellan is dumb, at all, he comes off very well spoken and intelligent, but then, I don't subscribe to the ideology that you have to be stupid, to be taken, as con artists, like George Bush, and Karl Rove, come by it naturally, and we all know what a master at deciet, satin is when working through his accomplices. McClellan, in his interviews, seems very geniune, and real, and I think that it is clear that he is intelligent enough to have written the book himself. I also think that he was extremely disappointed in George Bush, and that he was vary hurt by him, also.

I think that we learn who a person is over time. We see something that doesn't seem quite right, but we give the benefit of the doubt. Then we see something else, that also gives us pause, and something more, until, eventually, we see one thing in particular, which is just too decietful and dishonest, too malicious to overlook. I have found that once we reach that point, we see other things, things we didn't see before, which begin to paint a different picture, altogether, although we had some inklings all along, that something wasn't quite right, that someone couldn't really be trusted, or had some personal agenda, which purely selfish.

I think this is precisely what happened to McClellan. Very interesting to me, since he was the ONLY press secretary in the Bush Administration that I ever liked. And I don't think he ever lied knowingly for the administration, although, as we know, they get their talking points, and promote the position of the administration, but I think he's the kind who would have refused to lie for someone else, and hence, he insisted in asking Rove, and Libby, himself.

However, I never liked Tony Snow, Ari Fleicher, and can't stand Dana Perino.

I think McClellan wrote his book to educate people about the destruction that comes with an administration that sets out to decieve the public, for political purposes, and how many others are hurt by them.

As for your rendition of how I arrive at conclusions, darling, I think your are being quite partisan in your assessment. Someday, if you do come to Maryland, you will see my library, which is stocked with books about this administration, and perhaps, then, you will understand that McClellan's book is not my first reference on Bush's lies, just yet another insiders story of how bad things can get when we have thugs in the White House. Mr. McClellan is not the first of Bush's "Friends" to be thrown under the bus, and Bush has no reservations about throwing American soldiers under the bus, either, as he has done to cover up for his own approval of torture, while sending others to jail for following his orders.

Dick Cheney has lunch with Bush everyday. I surely do not think that he would be in the midst of outing a CIA agent, needing Bush's assistance on the de-classification, without Bush knowing about it, and without having discussed the Joe Wilson article. Regardless, I'd say two thirds of the country realizes what happened, since the story has been told by quite a number of people. And while we may have a few here, (not you) who are adept at suspending cirtical thinking in their partisan fog of denial, this crime, and the cover up, is so easy to follow, I'd have to say that only the worst of the Bush Sheep, could continue to deny that Bush, and Cheney, Rove, and Libby, were all in on outing a covert CIA agent, in order to discredit her husband, who exposed some of their lies, which led this country, dishonestly, into an un-necessary war, in which over four thousand Americans have lost their lives, and are still dying in, every day. Yes, that is a very important part, and one that I try Never to leave out.

Love,

gayle

The Vanity Fair article about Clinton, had not one single source. Even journalists who hate Clinton, didn't buy that story.

Bob Dole has always looked like a crook to me, but then, I never trusted any man who couldn't get it up!

Gayle in Md...since sexism is so popular these days, just thought I'd give you an example of how what's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

sack316
06-04-2008, 02:33 PM
Gayle,

Good post, and I'll accept that. Though we differ in our opinion on this, I do now have a better understanding of exactly where you are coming from, and most importantly WHY that is where you are coming from. So from that standpoint, I'll accept those statements.

And you know, I'm always down for a good offensive statement... sexism, racism, religion... whatever--- I do consider myself an equal opportunity offender. And if I can say something that can make at least one person feel uncomfortable, then it was all worth it /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Looking forward to checking out your library. To be vague (and at the same time not so vague) got about 100 days left to a return stateside, then should be roughly 30 days leave time. Given time to take care of some of the business I mentioned to you before, and all things considered, I may well be watching the the world series with you. Here's hoping at least!

Sack

editing to add I hope you have a big screen because I don't know if I'll have mine by then /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Gayle in MD
06-05-2008, 05:48 AM
Sack,
The only sports I watch are football and pool, but if we're shooting pool, there is a view of two TV's, and you can tune in whatever you like, as long as you are ready to shoot when it's your turn. You'll be able to see most of the series, lol. :-)