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bluewolf
08-08-2002, 07:23 AM
Last night I went to the pool hall. I did not want to go. I have been so stressed out about my puppy who has been dignosed with a clotting disorder, that I have totally been shook up and have been 'awfulizing'. I was literally shaking so bad, I questioned if I could pick up a pool stick. my stroke was so bad and that I could not pull the cue back straight and my bridge was shaking.We had already payed for an hour for me to play, so I just started knocking on the balls,without expecting anything to go in. So in that sense I did not have a care in the world.

So I was given an hour reprieve from all of my worries. Everything went away and I did not think about anything, not even the pool balls.

It was like I was in a trance or something but I was totally relaxed and did not have a care in the world.

So in this trance, I shot my best pool, including almost perfect position. Half way through, I came up for air and noticed my hands werent shaking anymore and my stroke was not my stroke, it was somebody elses stroke.Now I am an APA 2,so you guys know I dont have these kind of skills.

So I decided I had hit on something. When I used to take karate, I went into this space on a routine basis, and it always happens when I pick up a paintbrush.

It had not occurred to me that this state was possible in pool.I have the mental concepts though and I always heard this was a mental game. So I guess the mind and the spirit can overcome physical limitations.

So I think that to play my best pool, i have to forget about aiming systems, and diamonds on bank shots. I was thinking too much in previous sessions. I needed to just go with the flow and play by feel only to 'play my best pool'.

bluewolf

Karatemom
08-08-2002, 07:30 AM
This is what C.C. calls "not thinking". I don't do enough of it, but am trying to change that. The few times I have, I shot very well. IMO, the mind already knows what to do, so you're not overanalyzing (like I do) or thinking about the shot at hand or position play. I wish I could shoot like this consistently. However, I'm so analytic, I should have been a scientist, LOL.

Heide ~ still trying to figure out which side of the brain is which

bluewolf
08-08-2002, 07:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karatemom:</font><hr> This is what C.C. calls "not thinking". I don't do enough of it, but am trying to change that. The few times I have, I shot very well. IMO, the mind already knows what to do, so you're not overanalyzing (like I do) or thinking about the shot at hand or position play. I wish I could shoot like this consistently. However, I'm so analytic, I should have been a scientist, LOL.

Heide ~ still trying to figure out which side of the brain is which <hr></blockquote>

well i think much of the knowlege in pool is left brained. i am right brained but can use my left brain fairly well (enuff to learn the stuff i need to)

so i think going into this space and shooting by feel is my natural way. i was trying to analyze everything and do everything with my left brain because many of the people who taught me are very left brained.but since i am right brained, i needed to break away and do things according to how my brain works.

in karate, everything went away for me. i knew nothing of what was around me and since i already knew the techniques i was not thinking of sequential stuff like pick up the knee so and extend it so. i was going strickly by feel and flow.same thing with painting.writing is a little tougher. while predominately right brained, still have to have the left in gear to sequence the sentences and to use proper mechanics.

bluewolf

cheesemouse
08-08-2002, 09:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karatemom:</font><hr> This is what C.C. calls "not thinking". I don't do enough of it, but am trying to change that. The few times I have, I shot very well. IMO, the mind already knows what to do, so you're not overanalyzing (like I do) or thinking about the shot at hand or position play. I wish I could shoot like this consistently. However, I'm so analytic, I should have been a scientist, LOL.

Heide ~ still trying to figure out which side of the brain is which <hr></blockquote>

K~~mom,
Welcome to the 'zone'. I believe in the Inter-Tennis book this is an example of 'letting your perfect body go', the end result of your good practice and the allowing of your perfect body the liberty to do its job, the one you trained it to do. The trick for all of us is the letting go part. Sometimes it is easy and feels natural; a fleeting little dream state that comes and goes. In the real world of social interaction with its myiad of distractions, maintaining the zone, for us normal folks is a gruelling task that can quickly tire the mind. My suggestion to you, Miss Analytical, is to not deny your analytical nature but to use it as a natural part of your game, hence, the phrase "think'm up, shot'm down. One thing all pool players do, without exception, is move from shot to shot. We all like to steal a cookie now and then, and if we're good at it we do it without our mommy catching us, this takes some planning(the analytical or 'think'm up part) the actual lifting of the lid without detection and snatching the cookie is the reward and it must be done quickly with stealth and grace, after all you don't want to get caught(the 'zone' or the shot'm down part)...if every competition were a jar full of cookies with a surpise at the bottom we would never tire of it...Sorry for the off the edge images K~~mom, I'm in a mischievious mood today..... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

The cheese had cocktails last night..... LOL /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Cueless Joey
08-08-2002, 09:32 AM
BW, if you watch the new version of Enter the Dragon Bruce Lee has a conversation with a monk. It goes somewhat this way.
Monk asks what style do you want to ultimately achieve. Lee responds to have no style.
Faced with a great enemy, what would be your thoughts? Lee responds to have no thought. When the enemy contracts, I expand, when the enemy expands, I contract.

Karatemom
08-08-2002, 01:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr>
K~~mom,
Welcome to the 'zone'. I believe in the Inter-Tennis book this is an example of 'letting your perfect body go', the end result of your good practice and the allowing of your perfect body the liberty to do its job, the one you trained it to do. The trick for all of us is the letting go part. Sometimes it is easy and feels natural; a fleeting little dream state that comes and goes. In the real world of social interaction with its myiad of distractions, maintaining the zone, for us normal folks is a gruelling task that can quickly tire the mind. My suggestion to you, Miss Analytical, is to not deny your analytical nature but to use it as a natural part of your game, hence, the phrase "think'm up, shot'm down. One thing all pool players do, without exception, is move from shot to shot. We all like to steal a cookie now and then, and if we're good at it we do it without our mommy catching us, this takes some planning(the analytical or 'think'm up part) the actual lifting of the lid without detection and snatching the cookie is the reward and it must be done quickly with stealth and grace, after all you don't want to get caught(the 'zone' or the shot'm down part)...if every competition were a jar full of cookies with a surpise at the bottom we would never tire of it...Sorry for the off the edge images K~~mom, I'm in a mischievious mood today..... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

The cheese had cocktails last night..... LOL /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif <hr></blockquote>

Don't be sorry. I actually understand the cookie thing, hahahahahahaha. I can relate to that.

Heide

bluewolf
08-08-2002, 01:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Cueless Joey:</font><hr> BW, if you watch the new version of Enter the Dragon Bruce Lee has a conversation with a monk. It goes somewhat this way.
Monk asks what style do you want to ultimately achieve. Lee responds to have no style.
Faced with a great enemy, what would be your thoughts? Lee responds to have no thought. When the enemy contracts, I expand, when the enemy expands, I contract. <hr></blockquote>

kool. sounds like him. i think he invented broken rythm.

bluewolf

Michelle
08-08-2002, 02:16 PM
And this is the way really good players play, I would think.
The concept is to be analytical in your practicing, to train your brain and your body to know what to do and how to move. Think and think and think and think when you practice. Then, when you play "for real" it all should be ingrained..."the zone."

This happened to me last night as well.
I was tired, I haven't been playing much lately, and I haven't won my last two league matches. I was just wanting to get the night over with. I played 3 practice games before my match, and in the third, the other guy scratched on the break, and I proceeded to run the table. I was in shock (I'm only a 4). I said, "Well, my game can only go down from here, so I'm not playing again until my match." /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

In my first match game, I won in two innings.
In my second game, I broke, nothing fell, he shot and missed, then I went up and ran the table. I was stunned.

Of course, then my head got a little too big, and the next game he won and then we were hill-hill, and the last game went nine innings, and I barely won. *shrugs* I hate the way my little brain works sometimes!

phil in sofla
08-08-2002, 05:31 PM
It sounds like you and I are alike in terms of thinking a lot while playing pool (as analytic people in the rest of our lives away from pool).

What I have tentatively decided for myself in my questioning of whether or how to become a more intuitive or feel player is this. I still find value in aiming systems, getting lines from the diamonds, etc., all the old left brain things I've always done. It is once I'm down on the shot that I need to stop doing all of that, 'get into' the shot at hand fully, confirm that everything seems right a couple of times, believe in the shot, 'see' it all happen in advance, and then execute as good a stroke as I can.

Even briefly or barely glimpsing in my mind's eye what I want to have happen, in a mental pre-enactment, seems enough programming for my right brain to accomplish it, and lately, with precision on my position for the next shot that seems almost impossible that I'm doing it. Actually, I'm NOT doing it, exactly, since I have NO idea how to get such exact speed for shape, on any conscious level. Somewhere in the back of my head, someone does know, and will do it, if instructed as to what is desired and if left alone without interferring distracting thoughts.

So, to me, there is still the thinking ahead of time, not at all different from before, and still the necessity for a unique kind of 'visual' thinking prior to and during the shot, even though I'm working toward stopping thinking during the shot itself.

And, of course, if it is true that the good players are feel players more than system or analytic players, notice that you still see them measuring out things, pointing to contact points on hard cuts, looking at the rails and figuring out rail targets, etc., as appropriate for the situation they're in. Even a system, say a banking system, requires a certain speed of stroke, a certain amount of English, etc. (as standardized in the system for you and your stroke). all of which come under the category of touch or feel. So even using a system still can have a big feel component to it.

Tom_In_Cincy
08-08-2002, 07:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>So I decided I had hit on something. When I used to take karate, I went into this space on a routine basis, and it always happens when I pick up a paintbrush.<hr></blockquote>

"paint de fence" "up-Down" "up-down"

I can see the relationship to pool... great post Bluewolf

bluewolf
08-08-2002, 07:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;So I decided I had hit on something. When I used to take karate, I went into this space on a routine basis, and it always happens when I pick up a paintbrush.&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

"paint de fence" "up-Down" "up-down"

I can see the relationship to pool... great post Bluewolf

<hr></blockquote>

thanks.dont know how i missed the relationship? my pool stance is a modified karate stance. my down on the cb stance is another modified karate stance.getting the proper straight back stroke without twisting the wrist was easier because of karate. geez. where has my brain been.

bluewolf

Tom_In_Cincy
08-08-2002, 07:36 PM
I have been using pool as a mental relaxation tool for almost 34 years.

The pre-shot routine is what I use to clear my head and see the table layout, object ball into pocket, cue ball final position.....

Nothing else is in my thoughts until the cue ball comes to rest.

Great mental relazation.. I always feel better after I have played a good match (win or lose) just because I have cleared my head of all the distractions.