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bob_the_borg
06-02-2008, 08:07 AM
My APA 9 ball team recently went to a high level tournament and lost. I blame our captain and the strategy used to choose the match ups.

Our team consists of one 6, two 5s, two 4s, and two 3s. All of us can shoot up to our handicap any given day. During the regular session we always just flipped a coin to see who we were going to throw next. And it work out. We ended up first place by points for the session.

As soon as we got to the high level tournament we abandoned that strategy and tried to match numbers with the opposing team. UGH!

If your team wins the opening coin flip and gets to choose whether to throw a player first or defer to the other team. Which is the best strategy?

bmccaslin
06-02-2008, 08:53 AM
It's all just preference in my opinion. If we're in the playoffs though, I always like to control the posts so I would choose to post first.

With a roster that is fat in the middle like yours, I would always throw up a 4 or 5 first, maybe even the 3 if they are strong and you think the other team would match that post with an equal skill level.

I wouldn't blame the captain for the loss though, especially if it was one of your first times in a higher level tournament. A team that I played on regularly won the division for two straight years before we were able to compete effectively in the high-level tournaments.

Nerves come into play big time in these tournaments, which can affect your playing abilities as well as your decision making regarding posts, etc. I'm sure anyone on the boards here could give an example of when they lost a big tournament and second guessed the team's decisions; I know I have.

Hope this helps.

Jager85
06-02-2008, 09:24 AM
I have thoughts on both sides as they each have advantages and disadvantages. My team is not 'fat' in the middle as yours. We consist of one 7, one 6, (just lost our 5), two 4's, and two 3's. The advantage to deferring is that you get to play on top of their choice 3 out of 5 times. The disadvantage is if they play smart enough they can throw of on me, the 7, at their convenience and there is nothing we can do about it.

cycopath
06-02-2008, 10:09 AM
I always posted first. Whether I won the coin flip or if I lost (if they won the flip, generally the other team makes you put up first).

I always start with a strong mid-level player. And then try and match up evenly with the other teams the rest of the night. If I'm ahead or even in matches on my next blind post, I'll throw up a low ranked player or someone that's not been playing up to their ability. I do that so I don't waste a good strong player on a 'throw-off' opponent. I figure if the player's gonna be a loss, I'll take the loss on my terms. Of course if I'm behind in matches on a blind post, I'll be forced to post a strong player, but not neccessarily my best player.

This stragedy has worked for me for a long time now.

Btw, if you have a player that doesn't like it when you call 'time-out' on them, get rid of that player. Time-outs are an essential part of a successful team.

JJFSTAR
06-02-2008, 11:54 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bob_the_borg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My APA 9 ball team recently went to a high level tournament and lost. I blame our captain and the strategy used to choose the match ups.</div></div>

bob I absolutely love your board name however you would be about the 1,000,000,000,000th person to blame the loss of a tournament or match on the captain and their lineup choice. Pool team captain is a lot of things and let me go over these one by one. It is a job that you don’t get paid for, it distracts your game and focus, you have to do lots of things that the players don’t do at all like sending in the scores, the fees and most of the time the captain is the director of human resources as well as having to attend the league meetings.

To sum it all up pool team captain is an easier said than done job and most of the time it is a job that isn’t done by the same person for more than a few years for the reasons stated above. Keep in mind bob that I am not “coming down” on you but just some of the things that typically happen in all leagues all over the world. I am going to sound like I am ranting here but there are some ears that do need to hear this stuff even if they are not yours.

What most team captains get out of being the captain are players harassing them about what time they have to leave, their choice about who to put in where and how many games that individual is getting etc.. etc.. And what they get once in a blue moon get is “you know thanks a lot for all you do we all appreciate it” even when they have lead a team to and through a championship to win the big money. If you happen to have verbalized your discontentment to your team captain it doesn’t make you a bad person it just makes you well “run of the mill”.

I have captained a pool team for more than a dozen years and if I had a buck for every time a player came up to me with his own agenda, disappointment, disagreement etc.. I would be a rich man.

I also have some advice for team captains that put up with naggers and culpability seekers and that is don’t put up with it. I put up with this stuff for years and it is counterproductive and here is why. If you are “nice” enough to allow pestering of any kind from your team it not only brings your individual game that night and team spirit down but also puts negative energy in the air instead of positive energy.

Believe it or not it is even more insidious than that; it also makes you a weak leader in the eyes of your team. If you bench, tell off, throw off and punish those who do this the strength of your leadership ability in the eyes of your team will be heightened and you will be able to use this respect and strength to uplift a possibly discouraged soldier in the future. If you are a nice person this is extremely difficult to do. You WILL run the risk of some team mates thinking that you are an ^$$@*#*.

You just have to tell yourself that you are not and remind yourself of what you are doing at that match. Are you trying to placate your teammates or become a better pool player and thereby a stronger team? If the answer is the latter then I really recommend not being a softy the rewards are worth the risk.

bob_the_borg
06-02-2008, 01:41 PM
JJ,

As I can appreciate your point of view, not all teams are a dictatorship. The one I'm on typically votes on almost everything. (Except when it comes to higher level tournaments) The captain was chosen just as a contact person. We share the duties of meeting and things.

The frustration comes when the captain of record thinks they are the end-all be-all when it comes to strategy. For example, in certain circumstances I would throw a SL3 against an SL6 or higher. Our captain would never do that in a higher level tournament. She is of the opinion the the numbers ALWAYS have to match.

I just keep my mouth shut and play when I'm called upon. And when asked, I give my opinion.

sack316
06-02-2008, 03:53 PM
I like putting up first as well, as long as I feel like I have people that will get the job done in the first three matches... meaning at least having us in a position to win. A solid mid ranked player in the first match is great, then you have them putting up in the second match, which you can then try to play favorably to your side. Third match you are putting up, which just depends on where the score is at that point. After that, you know they are putting up the fourth match and process of elimination will give you a good idea of what's gonna have to come in the last match if needed.

Personally though, I much prefer a 3 and out in big tournies /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sack

1Time
06-02-2008, 04:57 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bob_the_borg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your team wins the opening coin flip and gets to choose whether to throw a player first or defer to the other team. Which is the best strategy? </div></div>
The more your team thinks either strategy is better than the other, the more harm this decision will do. And the less your team thinks either strategy is better, the less harm this decision will do.

The best strategy is to motivate your players to focus far more on winning their games.

Money often motivates people pretty well. Of course there are other things that motivate people, but money works pretty well with pool. To help your team focus more on winning, for example, all members could agree to throw X dollars into a pot each match and then the ones who win more games than they lost for that match could split the pot.

1Time
06-02-2008, 05:10 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJFSTAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have captained a pool team for more than a dozen years and if I had a buck for every time a player came up to me with his own agenda, disappointment, disagreement etc.. I would be a rich man.</div></div>
If, for example, your team agrees that such behavior has a negative impact on the team and should be discouraged and punished, your team then could agree such behavior is punishable by the offender adding X dollars to a pot that gets split at the end of the match among the worthy team members. It's kind of like a "swear jar", where you add money to it any time you're found swearing. It's an effective way to help get everyone on board or on the same page.

JJFSTAR
06-03-2008, 12:47 PM
That’s cool bob you have an interesting hierarchy as a pool team it is uncommon. So essentially she made the decision to make the decisions when you got to the later rounds huh? I think for everyone’s sake you all should probably make the decision as to who is going to make the decisions from now on.

If what I think you said is true and she switched up the chain of command and voted herself queen, then everyone is probably mad at her.

cycopath
06-03-2008, 01:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bob_the_borg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I can appreciate your point of view, not all teams are a dictatorship. The one I'm on typically votes on almost everything. </div></div>

I can't help but think of Peppermint Patty and the 'secret ballot' votes, in 'Race For Your Life, Charlie Brown'.