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View Full Version : Break Cue vs Jump/Break Cue, features Value



bluey2king
06-03-2008, 11:26 AM
Hello;
I am considering a Break or a Jump/Break cue. I have been looking at past threads about J/B cues that got me to thinking.
What are the features that are important in a J/B cue?
What are the features that are important in a Break cue?
I am a APA league player, and we can't use a jump cue, but things change. APA could change their rules, or I might change leauges at some point.
I have never jumped before. My Break cue is a Lucasi with a phnolic tip. (maybe not the best for control)
I will be looking for a value cue ie. low end and from what I have read that there are several that work Great.
Do you have any endorsments for the low end cues and features to look for?
Thanks
Bluey2King

sygfrid
06-03-2008, 03:12 PM
IMO, it's better to have a separate jump and break cue. I believe that a solid break cue breaks better than a segmented j/b as the energy transfer is purer due to its structural integrity... Here's an example, which is stronger, a 1pc cue (like a house cue)or a 2pc cue? See how Johnny Archer easily snapped his 2pc cue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui_cLjswzJk). Now stretch that into being a 3pc cue as in the case of a j/b

I have a custom break cue and a custom jump cue. My break cue has 13.25mm hard tip while my jump cue has 14mm phenolic tip. My jump cue's has a diameter of 22.5mm at the joint while my break cue has 21.25mm. The stronger taper of the jump cue allows it to make the cb jump effortless. If I were to use the jump cue's shaft on my break cue, then I might have trouble especially with off-centered breaks as the cb's deflection will surely be great.

I prefer to use a hard leather tip on my break cue as this gives me better control on the cb. Although a phenolic tip would deliver a more explosive break, the accuracy is somehow sacrificed with it.

My personal answer to WHAT ARE THE FEATURES THAT ARE IMPORTANT IN A BREAK CUE:
* Cue's butt must be plain and solid, preferably made from a very hard wood. The absence or lack of dampeners (glues from points, inlays, weight bolts, etc) will allow better transfer of energy from the butt to the tip
* Tip should be made of leather & graded as at least HARD.
* Weight of the cue will depend on how fast or slow your style of breaking is. If you like swinging the cue fast, a light cue will allow you to swing it faster & deliver a good force. Nevertheless, a heavy cue can deliver the same amount of force at a slower swing. This is possible due to the law of physics wherein FORCE= MASS (of the cue)x Acceleration.
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

MAC
06-03-2008, 04:05 PM
I bought a Fury J/B cue for about $145 brand new shipped to my house. Its a good looking cue with a better looking price tag /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
I hear Poison make a good J/B for about $170.00. I really do like my Fury for the money, if your on a budget I would check out Fury's website.

bluey2king
06-04-2008, 12:43 PM
Thanks for your input I have marked several on Ebay! I will let you all know what I win..!!
Thanks again

bluey2king
06-05-2008, 09:31 AM
Hello again;
I let a Fury J/B get away last night on the bay. It sold for $88 used.

I still have questions.
1. Why do some of J/B cues have a wood to wood joint is there a reason?
2. I will use this cue more as a Breaker than a jumper. Is the phnolic tip and ferrel the way to go?
3. What about weight? I have heard that lighter cues are faster thus better, also does accuracy suffer with the higher speed? ( I am posting nother thread about accuracy on the Break Stroke please join in that too.)

Stingers and X Breakers, Predtor, Mezz, are too much for my budget.
I am looking at Fury, Scorpion, J&J, Axiom, Jackhammer, Kaiser. Any others?
Thanks

Jager85
06-05-2008, 09:38 AM
I currently have a Cuetec J/B, and have no issues with it, other than you cannot jump in the APA. I used to use a different cue for jumping and breaking. I really have not been able to tell the difference except for the possibility for different tips. My break is not great though, so my opinion is not extremely credible. Currently I put a phenolic tip on my J/B, and it worked great until I cracked my Ferrule. I have sent it out to Muellers and am getting a phenolic ferrule/tip combo put on it.

eb_in_nc
06-05-2008, 09:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jager85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I currently have a Cuetec J/B, and have no issues with it, other than you cannot jump in the APA. I used to use a different cue for jumping and breaking. I really have not been able to tell the difference except for the possibility for different tips. My break is not great though, so my opinion is not extremely credible. Currently I put a phenolic tip on my J/B, and it worked great until I cracked my Ferrule. I have sent it out to Muellers and am getting a phenolic ferrule/tip combo put on it. </div></div>

Actually, you can do jump shots in the APA, you just cannot break down a cue to do this and need to do it with a full length cue.

Excerpt from the APA:
Are jump shots legal?
Jump shots are legal, when executed properly, but such shots must be attempted using your regular game cue. Those cues especially designed for jump shots MAY NOT be used in competition. Players are not allowed to break their cues down to attempt jump shots. Note: If the location has a sign that states no jump shots, then they are not allowed.

sygfrid
06-05-2008, 03:45 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bluey2king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello again;
3. What about weight? I have heard that lighter cues are faster thus better</div></div>

Lighter cues can be swung faster, YES... but better? Not necessarily true...

Let's say you can swing a 17oz cue at the maximum acceleration of 32mph from 0mph. If you can swing a 21oz cue more than 26mph then you're giving a more explosive break!

Just look at this computation based on the physics formula:
Mass (in kg)x Acceleration (meters/sqsec) = Force (Newton)
Given a 17oz cue & a 21oz cue, they can be made to give the same amount of Force but at different accelerations:

0.48194kg (17oz cue) x 51663.3meters/sq sec (0-32.1mph swing)= 24896.6N (Force upon impact)
AND
0.595kg (21oz cue) x 41,842.944m/sq sec (0-26mph swing)= 24,896.6N


IN general, accuracy suffers at higher speeds

bluey2king
06-06-2008, 08:25 AM
What do you use as criteria for choosing the weight?
My just stay with the weight of my playing cue becuase that feels good to me.

MAC
06-06-2008, 10:12 AM
My playing cue is a 19oz while my breaking cue is 18oz. I have heard both sides of the story of lighter vs heavier for breaking. It seems in our league the ones that use a heavy cue prefer it over a lighter one and vice versa. For me I get more bang with a lighter cue opposed to a heavier one. I look at like this in baseball if you want to hit homeruns, you want bat speed. You can swing a lighter bat faster than a heavier one, so I just applied that to pool also and went with a lighter break cue.

Deeman3
06-06-2008, 10:24 AM
Your playing cue to some extent should be the weight that "feels" right while, IMO, the break cue is the one you can move at the fastest velocity for the effect produced. Of course you can move a 1 oz. incredibly fast but with little mass it is not an effective weapon. Some people can move a 21 oz. cue very fast but not many.

JoeW
06-06-2008, 10:29 AM
I think it was Bob Jewett who said that pros play with a break cue that is about one oz. lighter (18 oz. or so). Something to do with the Jacksonville studies if you know what they are.

Deeman3
06-06-2008, 12:38 PM
Yes, I am familiar with the Jacksonville Experiments. I think Bob may have meant that "most" pros use a break cue about an ounce lighter.

I was just making the point as in baseball, there were exceptional strong/quick handed players who successfully used much heavier bats than the norm. If they could get them through the ball at a faster speed, accurately, they hit further, like breaking harder.

eb_in_nc
06-06-2008, 12:45 PM
Jacksonville (http://www.sfbilliards.com/jax_bd150.pdf)

JoeW
06-06-2008, 01:38 PM
Thank you eb_in_nc. I enjoyed reading the write ups. I did not realize that a firm hand grip is of little importance for imparting force. Have to think about that. Are there any more of these write ups available?

eb_in_nc
06-06-2008, 02:06 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you eb_in_nc. I enjoyed reading the write ups. I did not realize that a firm hand grip is of little importance for imparting force. Have to think about that. Are there any more of these write ups available? </div></div>

Joe, not sure of any more write-ups, but Platinum Billiards did some independent testing of cue deflection. You can see the the Z2 shaft is the most rigid out of all that they tested.

http://www.platinumbilliards.com/rating_deflect.php

eb_in_nc
06-06-2008, 02:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did not realize that a firm hand grip is of little importance for imparting force. Have to think about that. </div></div>

It's the speed of the shaft imparting the force so long as you are not holding the butt so loosely that it cannot complete the stroke. Another note about firm hand grip. My own observation on this is that I find when I grip the butt too tight (especially on long straight shots) I tend to mis-hit the ball and a more causal grip better serves me for these sort of shots. I've watched closely at pros like Karen Cor (camera shots taken from the back as she is getting ready to shoot) and her grip is sort of a wrap (she curls her hand and lets the butt cradle in it) without over-gripping it. I can tell this as the tips of her fingers are not fully wrapped around the butt as if she is letting the feel of the butt guide her through the stroke as opposed to forcing the stroke with a firm grip.

JoeW
06-06-2008, 02:32 PM
In general I have a light grip but seem to put more pressure with the draw shot. As some others have indicated it would appear that it may be best to keep one's finger tips off the cue stick as they only tend to steer the shot anyway. There are some interesting implications here for the break and the jump. Not sure what this all means and it probably needs more study (by me).

For the OP, I use an original R. Howard "Mace" (jump/ break) and am more than pleased with it for both functions. From what I read today it would seem the phenolic tip is best for the break. My Mace has a water buffalo tip but I doubt that I will change it anytime soon.