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Rail Rat
06-05-2008, 04:05 PM
I was playing my bud the Big Easy the other night and he left me with this shot on my 3 ball to win the hill hill game. At first I figured he had sold out.

I could just roll down there and drop it in but then I would have no shot on the Black because his 14B is in the way.

I knew it needed strong bottom right to pull it back but that proved to be a real challenge with both balls right on the rail. I lost that game and later we both practiced it but still could'nt get it.

Later our leauges best player popped over and he nailed it first time by pulling it back and knocking the 14B away. He said you must aim slightly away from the rail so that it can swerve back in to avoid rubbing into the rail on the way down..

I thought I would post it and get some feed back from forum players. Rail Rat.


http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/brad1943/Table.jpg

Vapros
06-05-2008, 04:35 PM
If there's room to go by the fourteen once, you can go by it again, in the other direction. It looks like the eight ball can be cut in, but if you can hit it at all, your position shouldn't be hopeless. Your goombah would at least have a pretty tough shot if you leave him in the jaws by the eight. Maybe even corner-hooked.

I'm not one of the people who could draw this shot, but I could stop it.

Rail Rat
06-05-2008, 04:57 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vapros</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If there's room to go by the fourteen once, you can go by it again, in the other direction. It looks like the eight ball can be cut in, but if you can hit it at all, your position shouldn't be hopeless. Your goombah would at least have a pretty tough shot if you leave him in the jaws by the eight. Maybe even corner-hooked.

I'm not one of the people who could draw this shot, but I could stop it. </div></div>

Unfortunately there is just enough room to clear the 14B so I was forced to a direct hit. A "no call" won't work because he can pocket the 14B. If I try and come back to the 8B for a safety it would scratch. The only other option is a kick off the far rail near the center pocket, but thats very dicey.

eb_in_nc
06-06-2008, 06:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rail Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was playing my bud the Big Easy the other night and he left me with this shot on my 3 ball to win the hill hill game. At first I figured he had sold out.

I could just roll down there and drop it in but then I would have no shot on the Black because his 14B is in the way.

I knew it needed strong bottom right to pull it back but that proved to be a real challenge with both balls right on the rail. I lost that game and later we both practiced it but still could'nt get it.

Later our leauges best player popped over and he nailed it first time by pulling it back and knocking the 14B away. He said you must aim slightly away from the rail so that it can swerve back in to avoid rubbing into the rail on the way down..

I thought I would post it and get some feed back from forum players. Rail Rat.


http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/brad1943/Table.jpg </div></div>

In my mind you have two choices. The first is making a stop shot and hoping you have not blocked the path of the 8 ball with the 14, and that you can negotiate the cut into the corner.

The second is the way your hot shot played it. If you want the CB to come off the rail, you have to hit it with bottom right english, but because you are on the rail with the CB, you run the risk of running into the rail first before striking the OB potentially mis-hitting the shot. Somewhat like a masse shot, you need to compensate directionally by hitting the shot somewhat away from the rail causing the english to pull the ball back to the rail to contact the OB dead center. This is by far no easy shot, but it does allow you more opportunity to deal with making the 8.

Rail Rat
06-06-2008, 08:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eb_in_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In my mind you have two choices. The first is making a stop shot and hoping you have not blocked the path of the 8 ball with the 14, and that you can negotiate the cut into the corner.

The second is the way your hot shot played it. If you want the CB to come off the rail, you have to hit it with bottom right english, but because you are on the rail with the CB, you run the risk of running into the rail first before striking the OB potentially mis-hitting the shot. Somewhat like a masse shot, you need to compensate directionally by hitting the shot somewhat away from the rail causing the english to pull the ball back to the rail to contact the OB dead center. This is by far no easy shot, but it does allow you more opportunity to deal with making the 8. </div></div>

Yes. the second is the only option i think. I reccommend this for anybody who wants to advance thier game for practice. I managed it once in over 20 tries. Its amazing how easy it seems though once you hit it right.

JoeW
06-06-2008, 10:17 AM
I agree with the hot shot. It is a shot that has to be learned. Nice thing is that you do not have to draw back too far and if you missed could have stuck him too close to the 14.

jondrums
06-09-2008, 01:47 PM
I would thing straight back draw much easier to execute in the situation. (come back between the 14 and the rail) True - it requires an accurate hit with a slightly elevated cue, but for me it would sure beat having to use right and compensate for masse, then hope the cue strikes the 14 correctly!

Cornerman
06-09-2008, 02:41 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rail Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was playing my bud the Big Easy the other night and he left me with this shot on my 3 ball to win the hill hill game. At first I figured he had sold out.

I could just roll down there and drop it in but then I would have no shot on the Black because his 14B is in the way.

I knew it needed strong bottom right to pull it back but that proved to be a real challenge with both balls right on the rail. I lost that game and later we both practiced it but still could'nt get it.

Later our leauges best player popped over and he nailed it first time by pulling it back and knocking the 14B away. He said you must aim slightly away from the rail so that it can swerve back in to avoid rubbing into the rail on the way down..

I thought I would post it and get some feed back from forum players. Rail Rat.


http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/brad1943/Table.jpg </div></div>I have no better answers, but you might want to use the Cuetable instead at Cuetable.com

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1CbjE4HXQX1NXmf4PbJD@

Fred

Bob_Jewett
06-09-2008, 03:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jondrums</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would thing straight back draw much easier to execute in the situation. (come back between the 14 and the rail) True - it requires an accurate hit with a slightly elevated cue, but for me it would sure beat having to use right and compensate for masse, then hope the cue strikes the 14 correctly! </div></div>
The problem is that if the cue ball is truly frozen to the rail, it is likely to jump up and hit the rail if you play firmly (or hard enough to draw the cue ball). That shot is illustrated in Byrne's "Advanced" book, I think. The other problem is that on many tables, the side pockets are not well formed or the rails are not correctly aligned.

Rail Rat
06-09-2008, 05:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jondrums</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would thing straight back draw much easier to execute in the situation. (come back between the 14 and the rail) True - it requires an accurate hit with a slightly elevated cue, but for me it would sure beat having to use right and compensate for masse, then hope the cue strikes the 14 correctly! </div></div>

The Qb is too close to the rail, you must shoot out away from the rail slightly or the Qball will rub it and come away from the shot. Give it a try, its very difficult.

1Time
06-10-2008, 02:05 AM
If there's enough room between the striped ball and rail, hit the CB with low right / draw curving the CB slightly away from the rail and back to the 3 ball. It's like a curve or mini-masse' shot.

If there's not enough room between the striped ball and rail to execute that shot, kick at the 3 ball in an attempt to pocket it in the corner. I would use top right English and hit the CB left of the side pocket.

Neither shot is that difficult. Just requires a lot of practice to get the feel for it. I would bet on me making the first shot, but the kick shot would be less than 50/50.

Rail Rat
06-10-2008, 10:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If there's enough room between the striped ball and rail, hit the CB with low right / draw curving the CB slightly away from the rail and back to the 3 ball. It's like a curve or mini-masse' shot.

If there's not enough room between the striped ball and rail to execute that shot, kick at the 3 ball in an attempt to pocket it in the corner. I would use top right English and hit the CB left of the side pocket.

Neither shot is that difficult. Just requires a lot of practice to get the feel for it. I would bet on me making the first shot, but the kick shot would be less than 50/50. </div></div>

Yes, this was discussed as the proper approach to the shot, however you must make it and clear the 14B. My dwg is not too accurate, the 3B is up a bit from the pocket. The 14B offers about 1/2" clearance. Our top player did make it the first time but he missed the next 2. If you can make this shot everytime your'e a pro class player in my book.

1Time
06-10-2008, 11:01 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rail Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yes, this was discussed as the proper approach to the shot, however you must make it and clear the 14B. My dwg is not too accurate, the 3B is up a bit from the pocket. The 14B offers about 1/2" clearance. Our top player did make it the first time but he missed the next 2. If you can make this shot everytime your'e a pro class player in my book. </div></div>
The difficulty of the shot depends on the exact positioning of the balls. As pictured and with enough clearance to pass the striped ball, I could see making that shot more than half the time, which is why I said I would bet on it. No one can make it every time. But it is a shot like with many others that can be practiced such that one's chances of making it can be improved. I've seen the straight shot down the rail enough times to know it's one that pays to practice.

Several factors like moving the 3 ball away from the pocket can make this shot exponentially more difficult. The half inch of clearance for the 14B seems like enough to pocket the 3B, but it also makes setting up for the 8B harder. Again, it depends on exactly how the balls are set-up.

If the straight or kick shots on the 3B are too unlikely, a 3rd option is to attempt a good hit on the 3B and possibly move the 14B for a tough next shot. CB 2 rails into the 3B, 3B into the 14B, and 3B back into the same rail and/or 14B to a rail. A get lucky shot and hope for another.

Rail Rat
06-10-2008, 11:18 AM
Yes, this shot needs to be practiced a lot to master. I've been working on it since then and I still have'nt been able to leave the QB safe or get to the 8B better than 20% of attempts. The long draw shot frozen to the rail is one of the most difficult shots in pool in my opinon, wish I could nail it.

All I can say is, set it up and try it.