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sack316
06-06-2008, 09:37 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25004343

cool little 2 page read from msnbc regarding the Clinton campaign. Thought it pretty interesting and accurate, complete with a "why it appears the media is against her" defense on page two. Makes perfect sense to me.

Sack

Gayle in MD
06-08-2008, 07:27 AM
Sack,
IMO, MSNBC was among the worst of the perpetrators of sexism against Hillary.

To deny that sexism existed, had an impact on Hillary's campaign, and was allowed and overlooked, even by Hillary's own male party leaders, is truly a false premise.

One need only review the picture of the Hillary nut cracker in a thread right here, to understand the sexual threat experienced by men who see such a device as the ultimate depiction of what will happen to them when a woman of accomplishment, intelligence and success, succeeds and makes a mark in a male dominsted arena. It is clear through that picture, that empowered women who manage to achieve great accomplishments, are a threat equal to having their balls smashed, a truly accurate assessment of how insecure, sexist, misogynistic kinds of men actually do experience a woman of accomplishment, who managed to do very well in her attempt to win the nomination for the presidency.

I found that post, (Was it yours?) to be the ultimate statement of how some kinds of men, (insecure men?) present sexism as a joke, and experience equal opportunity for women, a threat to their manhood.

Hillary Clinton has been a trail blazer for women's rights, African American rightsm and children's rights, throughout her life. Becomming the first woman to make a successful attempt for the presidency, successful in that she won 18 million votes or more, the majority of the battleground states, and has gained the respect of her opponent, her party, and Americans all over this country, must have certain men grasping at their crotches, just as depicted by that picture, to protect their manhood from the scary women of substance such as Hillary Clinton.

I find this very revealing, and very sad.

While sexism may not be the primary cause of Hillary's defeat by Obama, which is questionable, IMO, given the unprecedented decisions of the Democratic party, skewed to benefit Obama, I don't think any reasonable person could think that the constant sexist bashing had no effect.

Interestingly, the very men on this site who found the Hillary Nut Cracker so funny, are the same who will deny that sexist bashing had any effect at all, while at the same time, grabbing their crotches to protect their balls from being smashed to smitherines over the precieved result of a strong, intelligent, audacious woman succeeding in a male dominated arena!

Very sad, very telling and very sexist, IMO.

pooltchr
06-08-2008, 11:27 AM
Maybe it wasn't sexism, as you seem to proclaim as fact. Some of us just didn't like her politics, and saw no real reason why we would want another Clinton in the White House. Her mistake was she was so arrogant as to think she was entitled to the job, and failed miserably in her campaign. Not even understanding how the deligates in California would be allocated was a huge mistake. Thinking the caucus states weren't important was another. Underestimating Obama was another. And her history was enough for many to decide not to support her.
Steve

hondo
06-08-2008, 03:27 PM
Gayle, I honestly feel that one of the big differences between Obama & Clinton was that he is so much smoother than Clinton in front of a group.
I saw the same thing happen to Eugene McCarthy against
Bobby Kennedy even though they essentially believed the same thing.
Hopefully this will work for Obama against McCain.

sack316
06-08-2008, 04:09 PM
Gayle,

I have never denied that some forms of sexism has existed and had some impact on this campaign... in fact I do understand that forms of this came both from the media and the public in general as well. It was an issue that was bound to come up... any form of isms from many directions. Hillary obviously had to deal with sexism. Obama obviously with racism. McCain obviously with older-white-well-to-do-male-ism. Name a race, group, sex, religion, sect, camp, etc. and you'll find a grout of "ists" for it.

And no, the nutcracker thead was not mine... but I'll be honest and say that I did just make a reply that you probably won't agree with... and again honestly I was gonna make a post about it had I not been beaten to it. But not because I am sexist... and not because I don't "think" I'm sexist but really am because I'm blind to the fact (which is what I think you may believe). It was because I'm not so sensitive to things, and get tired of hearing how offensive EVERYTHING is. We cry out about how wrong and "ist" this or that is, and it takes away from actual abuses of say sexism or racism.

Now before you respond to this, or my reply in the other thread, here is my preemptive reply. I'll freely admit my jokes, things I may say, and way of putting things can very much be interpreted as sexist or bigoted. That's just my sense of humor, that's just my little jab at a society so caught up in political correctness that all the fun of life gets sucked right out. In fact, I've rarely shown in on this board... but in person if you heard me you'd probably think I may be some kind of monster if you took some things I say out of context, or didn't know it was me saying them and how I really am. I'll say some controversial things, I'll push stereotypes to their limit... sometimes just for the sake of shock value and humor. That may be hard to understand, and make myself sound really bad, but for those who know me know I'm am the complete opposite in reality.

I've grown up and lived my entire life right here in central Alabama. I took flack for defending and helping blacks when I was in school. Came close to several but whoopins because I seemingly "sided with them N's and not my own" in several issues. I brough a female onto the baseball field in my playing days... not as a statement or anything, but because she was someone that played well and was a good practice partner for me. That was fairly "radical" even only ten years ago when I did it. I've shot down discrimination in one of my former workplaces.

And I never did those things because I thought it would be cool to cause the controversy. I did that because in any situation, in any walk of life, the best person for a particular job/position/help/whatever is the best person for that period. So my dear, I do not accept that because I find a Hillary nutcracker to be humorous means I am somehow sexist. Just the same as how I may quote a nasty Obama joke, but still not believe I am racist. Though the words I may say or the things I may find funny seem to reflect that... the fact is that the way I've lived my life has shown that I am probably one of the most level headed and accepting people I know. Then again, maybe that's why in "real life" I can get away with saying the things I do, because people know me.

As to the post at hand, as I said I won't deny sexism exists... as well as any number of other isms that any other candidate may have to face. Somehow, I think Hillary is above using it as an excuse. Though sexism may have been part of the roadblock, it wasn't the entire one... and nobody can deny that several other flaws along the way contributed to her not being the nominee at present time. The same sexism was there nearly a year ago when she was the sure thing as exists now, so a reasonable person could deduce that something would have to be the major reason for her downfall (note: downfall used for lack of a better term).

She could have used sexism and the media to spark more support for herself had it been done right. I respect her more for not doing so... but the fact is that she could have created outrage and buzz around certain issues that would have kept the majority of focus on herself rather than splitting it with Obama. I do believe she tried to do things the "right way", but at the same time I feel that in itself may have cost her as well.

Sack

Deeman3
06-09-2008, 07:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe it wasn't sexism, as you seem to proclaim as fact. Some of us just didn't like her politics, and saw no real reason why we would want another Clinton in the White House. Her mistake was she was so arrogant as to think she was entitled to the job, and failed miserably in her campaign. Not even understanding how the deligates in California would be allocated was a huge mistake. Thinking the caucus states weren't important was another. Underestimating Obama was another. And her history was enough for many to decide not to support her.
Steve </div></div>

Steve,

People who support Hillary will always say it was sexism rather than admit she is/was such a flawed candidate. While voting in our special election last Tuesday, of the 4 races where women were running, I voted for two. I had made a personal committment to one Harri Ann Smith, that I would travel to the polls although if not for her running for this special election, I would not have voted this time. Now she is in a runoff with Jay Love, who gfot a much larger part of the vote. He is well qualified...She is well qualified.

I just don't think, in this day and time, that sexism is as large as the claimants say. I could be wrong. However, Hillary is the worse possible case to prove or disprove this as she has been a consistent fingure of controversy and a proven and known liar for decades. All but the most rabid of her fans will admit that! Now, all politicians lie, that is certain. Most don't do it when the truth is actually easier to defend.

She is thankfully, yesterday's news for most and unless Obama is stupid enough top put her on the ticket, she will go back to the Senate and brood for four years. Most Americans are looking to see who Obama picks. If he goes for Hillary, it will tell the world more about his judgement than all the other stuff has.

Gayle in MD
06-09-2008, 07:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Some of us just didn't like her politics, and saw no real reason why we would want another Clinton in the White House. </div></div>

Some Americans only seem interested in insuring that another Republican will run this country, regardless of how flawed he is, and unstable, and insure that they, who voted for the party which has put this country into such huge debt, and unstable international relations, will not have to pay any additional taxes, but would prefer to leave all the debt we have incured to their children, and grand children, eventhough they were the ones who voted for the President who borrowed more money than all previous administrations combined, and ignored the greatest trade deficits ever recorded.

Her history includes her outstanding accademic achievments, a reputation for being one of the, if not the hardest working First Lady in history, forty years of working for the rights of women and children and African Americans, eight years of hard work in the senate, where she gained the respect of representatives from both sides of the isle, and the most successful campaign ever launched for the presidency by a woman.

However, bacause the poor losers in the Republican party, who were frosted over a Democratic President winning two elections, and who demonized and lied about the Clintons and wasted millions of dollars investigating them, and turning up nothing of substance, save a BJ, impeached a man who was a great president, who left office with a high approval rating, and a surplus, and low unemployment, and a reformed unemployment program, and was improperly impeached by a bunch of lowlife Republicans, who were doing the same thing they impeached Clinton for doing, and hence, for things that did not rise to the level of impeachment.

One only has to read the statements made by pundits from MSNBC, and imagine those same things being said about a man, or about their beloved Bush family, to see that the attacks were unfair, sexist, and disgusting.

Did Laura Bush pimp out her daughter to sell her recent book?


Gayle in Md.

Deeman3
06-09-2008, 08:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Did Laura Bush pimp out her daughter to sell her recent book?


Gayle in Md. </div></div>

Gee, that is funny. I bet no one gets that offended at your remark. It is funny on a couple of levels as, of course, it was a left leaning journalist that made that infamous remark about the Clinton daughter, Bush's daughter co-authored the book they were selling, the profits are not going to the Bush's (Remember any Clinton books where the money did not go to the Clintons?)

Lastly, Bush's daughter has said she may vote for Obama!

No. None of us are upset about your comments on Bush's daughter. Heck, it's probably the most civil commnet on any Republican you have made in 7 years unless you count Republicans who have flipped ot the dark side. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

If you are really set on finding real women hating in the politics, and I agree they exist, you need to look a little closer at your own party as they have don more of it than most recently. Now that she is out of the way, they will claim, along wiht you, it was a right smear campaign all along. If you can't see the biat and switch in your own party, you'll always be electing Obama's and looking for excuses for the weaker candidates.

She lost over poor planning skills, poor judgement, not knowing that the states were not winner take all, etc. etc. etc.

Remember it was not winner take all and especially not whinner take all.

Gayle in MD
06-09-2008, 08:20 AM
Well, I thought she out performed Obama throughout the campaign. She was far better in debates, and I think she is far more intelligent, and quick on her feet.

While Obama is a great orator, he is not nearly as good as she is when placed on the spot, and she demonstrated a greater command of the issues, IMO. he does a lot of stammering and extended pausing, and I found much of his performance relied on rhetoric, and without a lot of substance, other than he didn't vote for the war, which he couldn't have done, anyway, since he wasn't even in there at the time, and who knew how much Bush had trumped up the intelligence, or how decietful he intended to be,? He did break all his promises in his talks with the congress and the Senate, and acted without the restraint which he conveyed he would exercise as he made his push for power.

I don't like Obama, and I actually dislike his wife more than any other by proxy, contending First Lady, or former first lady that I have ever observed. I even dislike her more than I dislike smile-nod Laura, and that's saying something.

However, given John McCain's senility, and his ignorance on both foreign afairs, and economic affairs, I don't think he has a chance. His support for George Bush's failed and illogical, anti-american policies, and his very well documented inappropriate temper, should give most Americans pause. When more is known about his history of vindictive, outrageous back stabbing, even against his own Republican peers, and even against innocent aides who worked for people he held grudges against, I don't think Obama has much to worry about, considering the mess the Republicans have left for the rest of us to deal with. I suspect that only those voters who are most interested in having their children and grand children pay for their own mistaken votes, rather than stepping up to the plate and paying higher taxes to plow us all out of debt, will vote for McCain. But who knows what kind of slime tactics Karl Rove may be cooking up, or if another Katherine Harris is lurking in the wings, purging voters from the voting roles?

Those who consider voting for McCain should realize that there will be a draft, and more accumulating debt, with higher interest, if he should win, and there will definately be far greater social unrest, and more of the swaggering, blustering threatening, demonizing styled foreing policy which has put us closer to nuclear annihilation than since we had to deal with Russia and Cuba. There will not be any working across the isle, no partisan progress, that's for sure, because McCain has the emotional personality of Hitler, and one can feel it seeting just under his phoney smile, and forced soft voice. He's a fake, through and through, and knowing what I know about him, it is truly repulsive watching him pretend to be a reasonable, soft spoken little pooh bear.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
06-09-2008, 08:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gee, that is funny. I bet no one gets that offended at your remark. It is funny on a couple of levels as, of course, it was a left leaning journalist that made that infamous remark about the Clinton daughter, Bush's daughter co-authored the book they were selling, the profits are not going to the Bush's (Remember any Clinton books where the money did not go to the Clintons?)

<span style="color: #000066">I'm well aware of the particulars surrounding the circumstances involved in the instances we are addressing, and I was using, to make a point, Deeman. I was trying to provide an example of how such a statement sounds when it is launched against a woman other than Hillary. However, I could just as well have said, "Did Romney pimp out his daughters on the campaign trail?" Or, any number of other examples, to prove that there was an unprecedented number of sexist statements launched against Hillary in the last months, from both the right, and the left. MSNBC, was among the worst, and in fact, I was among the women who demonstrated against their outrageous statements, along with my eighty-three year old aunt. </span>

Lastly, Bush's daughter has said she may vote for Obama!

<span style="color: #330099">Again, not pertinent to my point. </span>

No. None of us are upset about your comments on Bush's daughter. Heck, it's probably the most civil commnet on any Republican you have made in 7 years unless you count Republicans who have flipped ot the dark side.

<span style="color: #000066">I'lll tkae that as a compliment, since you obviously consider truth and reality, to be the dark side. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif </span>

If you are really set on finding real women hating in the politics, and I agree they exist, you need to look a little closer at your own party as they have don more of it than most recently. Now that she is out of the way, they will claim, along wiht you, it was a right smear campaign all along. If you can't see the biat and switch in your own party, you'll always be electing Obama's and looking for excuses for the weaker candidates.

<span style="color: #000066"> I've already acknowledged that the left was just as bad as the right regarding the unfair treatment of Hillary.</span>

She lost over poor planning skills, poor judgement, not knowing that the states were not winner take all, etc. etc. etc.

Remember it was not winner take all and especially not whinner take all.

<span style="color: #000066">I'm well aware of what mistakes she made, Deeman, and also well aware of the bashing she endured. I just don't agree that the sexist statements made against her continuously had no affect, as you seem to prefer to believe.

Gayle in Md. </span>
</div></div>

eg8r
06-09-2008, 08:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I found that post, (Was it yours?) to be the ultimate statement of how some kinds of men, (insecure men?) present sexism as a joke, and experience equal opportunity for women, a threat to their manhood.</div></div>Hey sack, considering this quote from gayle it appears that when she is in doubt she immeadiately questions you as the owner of a thread she did not like and refers to you as insecure. What a friend.

eg8r

Deeman3
06-09-2008, 08:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #000066">I'm well aware of what mistakes she made, Deeman, and also well aware of the bashing she endured. I just don't agree that the sexist statements made against her continuously had no affect, as you seem to prefer to believe.

Gayle in Md. </span>
</div></div> [/quote]

No, once again, and hopefully for the last time, I think it did have a minor effect, just not the impact that cost her the nomonation. She had enough help with that from Bill, her staff and the far, far left.

Gayle in MD
06-09-2008, 08:58 AM
Bill was just as smeared unfairly as she was, FYI.

His statements were taken out of context, and spread all over cable news, and given false and trumped up meanings, which were rpesented as factual analysis.

We can argue about this forever, but repeated slander and lies on cable network programming has a huge result and impact on a candidate, as John McCain learned in 2000.

None of Hillary's mistakes revealed a lack of understanding of the issues, btw, as McCain's blunders have demonstrated. She exaggerated one story, and it was re-played, over and over again, non stop, for weeks. How many times have you seen McCain's incorrect statements repeated?

The right owns the press. You have yet to come up with a comprehensive list of proven liberal media pundits, btw.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

Gayle in Md,

Deeman3
06-09-2008, 10:24 AM
Bill Moyers
Keith Obermeyer
Katie Couric
Brian Williams
Wolf Blitzer

How many do you need?

sack316
06-09-2008, 01:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I found that post, (Was it yours?) to be the ultimate statement of how some kinds of men, (insecure men?) present sexism as a joke, and experience equal opportunity for women, a threat to their manhood.</div></div>Hey sack, considering this quote from gayle it appears that when she is in doubt she immeadiately questions you as the owner of a thread she did not like and refers to you as insecure. What a friend.

eg8r </div></div>

Yeah, I think I addressed that if I'm not mistaken. She was incorrect in thinking it was my thread, but she was spot on in realizing it was a likely thread for me to post, I must admit /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Really, the only inncacuracy is the insecurity part... as I explained such joking and my ability to find humor in possibly tasteless things is due to my being extremely comfortable, rather than insecure. Just as I may "act" gay, or metro, or sexist, or racist in many situations and myself and those who know me find it humorous--- it is because I am so comfortable in my sexuality, acceptance, etc. and not due to uncomfortable joking in order to deal with a complex.

But I don't actually think she was specifically trying to call ME out per say... if she was she would definitely let me know. We are friends, and at the very least do respect each other... enough so that she knows she is free to say "Sack, you are being an idiot" when it is warranted /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sack

Gayle in MD
06-09-2008, 01:30 PM
LOL, Brian Williams is a Republican, and the only network newman that Bush gave an interview to.

Katie Couric, another Republican.

Keith Oberman, as I understand it, is a libertarian.

Wolf Blitzer is so monotone, nobody even knows what he is.

Bill Moyers is probably a Democratic, but he is alos one of the best interviewers in the broadcast industry, and anyone who hasn't been watching Bill Moyers Journal, has really missed out on the best documented news of the week, save Frontline.

Anyway, Even if I'm wrong about Couric, which I don't think I am, only Moyers, of these you mention, is officially from the left.

Oberman goes after both parties, as does Blitzer, and Couric.'

I won't bore you with the dozens from the right who dominate the radio and news media, but believe me, the right does dominate.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
06-09-2008, 01:32 PM
Sack,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">





</div></div>








I don't think you're an idiot. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

sack316
06-09-2008, 01:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Keith Oberman, as I understand it, is a libertarian.

</div></div>

As a longtime fan of Olbermann from way back in his early Sportscenter days, and with friends that actually work on his show, I can safely tell you his is about as liberal as they come. And about as anti-right wing as one can get. Oh, and though I do somehow manage to still like the guy, he is about as nutty as Mr. Peanut.

His apparent "turn" on Hillary was only after he felt her campaign had taken a rightward turn, and his disagreements with some of her tactics.

But that notwithstanding, he is very liberal... not libertarian. A british newspaper even voted him as #67 on a top 100 list of most influential US Liberals.

Sack

sack316
06-09-2008, 01:42 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sack,



I don't think you're an idiot. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif </div></div>

yeah, I know you don't think that. But there are many occasions it is warranted that someone tell me I act like one... and all I can do is smile and say "yeah" /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sack

Deeman3
06-09-2008, 01:54 PM
I see. if they ever dumped on Hillary, they are right wingers. No one in their right mind would thnk that the media is tilted right except from the very far lurches of the Democratic Party.

Just because they share the right's justified skepticism of Hillary, does not make them not left leaning.

eg8r
06-09-2008, 02:07 PM
I am just reading the post with the words that are there. Hey sack, you know that post that was sexist and probably written by an insecure female hating man...wait, was that a post from you? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

sack316
06-09-2008, 02:12 PM
Heck yeah it was eg8r... and if someone else wrote one I'd simply steal it and take credit for it anyway. What do you call that useless piece of skin around a.... eh nevermind, you've probably heard that one /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sack (is gonna hear it for that one)

eg8r
06-09-2008, 02:14 PM
You are too much. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

Gayle in MD
06-09-2008, 02:33 PM
Deeman,
I thought Oberman was a libertarian, but I think I was thinking of Tucker Carlson, who is denfinitly libertarian.

As for the Right wing Media, they have slandered the Clinton's throughout their political careers. I don't think I've imagined that. They impeached Bill, for what did not rise to the level of impeachment, hence, it failed, when loads of the same Republicans who slandered him and investiaged him throughout his tenure, were at the same time, involved in their own affairs and abortions.

John McCain was a known womanizer for years. Everyone in Washington knew about it, just as they knew about Bush one's girlfriend. No body made much aout of men and their affairs until Bill Clinton came along, and the resentment from the Republican Party was so full of hatred, they pulled out all the stops.

Now you can deny it all you wish, but I do get around town, and I know who the womanizers are, and McCain was one of them, as was Bush One, and there are many on both sides of the isle. It wasn't an issue until Clinton beat Bush, then there were nothing but investigations, that led nowhere, and Republicans wasted loads of taxpayers money looking for smut. I didn't imagine it, it happened.

I saw the sexism throughout her campaign. Deny it all you wish, it was there, and while all that was going around, have you heard one thing about how McCain treated his first wife, who had been left an invalid in a horrible accident, before he dumped her for his millionaire wife? NO. Nothing.

Hillary Clinton is a decent woman, who has always been a hard working person throughout her life. She didn't need Bill Clinton, or any other man, to make her in her life, she made him. She did not deserve all the nasty statements she had to put up with, regardless of where they came from.

Bill Clinton was a good president, and most americans think so, and one thing is for sure, he surely didn't leave this country in the kind of mess it is in right now. Bush has destroyed us, and our former good reputation around the world. Clinton is loved all over the world, but just ask anyone who travels abroad what the people in the world think about America, and George bush.

"If you deny till you die, you must be a Republican."

Gayle in Md.





None of that was my imagination.

Wally_in_Cincy
06-09-2008, 03:04 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


I do get around town, and I know who the womanizers are, and McCain was one of them, . </div></div>

You know?

So what are ya sayin' Gayle?

LOL

Deeman3
06-09-2008, 03:21 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Deeman,
I thought Oberman was a libertarian, but I think I was thinking of Tucker Carlson, who is denfinitly libertarian.

<span style="color: #FFFF66">Yes, i would identify Tucker as Libertarian. Of course, he wa not on my list. </span>

As for the Right wing Media, they have slandered the Clinton's throughout their political careers. I don't think I've imagined that. They impeached Bill, for what did not rise to the level of impeachment, hence, it failed, when loads of the same Republicans who slandered him and investiaged him throughout his tenure, were at the same time, involved in their own affairs and abortions.

John McCain was a known womanizer for years. Everyone in Washington knew about it, just as they knew about Bush one's girlfriend. No body made much aout of men and their affairs until Bill Clinton came along, and the resentment from the Republican Party was so full of hatred, they pulled out all the stops.

<span style="color: #FFFF66">Even if I beleive that McCain is a womanizer, I think Clinton was in trouble for taking advantage of a young White House Intern, not a "date" in Washington. </span>

Now you can deny it all you wish, but I do get around town, and I know who the womanizers are, and McCain was one of them, as was Bush One, and there are many on both sides of the isle. It wasn't an issue until Clinton beat Bush, then there were nothing but investigations, that led nowhere, and Republicans wasted loads of taxpayers money looking for smut. I didn't imagine it, it happened.

<span style="color: #FFFF66">Again, I am all for Bill messing around, I never thought Paula Jones, Jennifer Flowers, Anna May Clampett nor the host of others were the point, just the Intern with the Cigar. </span>

I saw the sexism throughout her campaign. Deny it all you wish, it was there,

<span style="color: #FFFF66">Gayle, how many time smust i say, "Yes, there was some sexism", just not enough to impact the election. She may have, in fact, benefitted fomr it by rallying a bunch of women who otherwise would not have voted for her. </span>

Hillary Clinton is a decent woman, who has always been a hard working person throughout her life. She didn't need Bill Clinton, or any other man, to make her in her life, she made him. She did not deserve all the nasty statements she had to put up with, regardless of where they came from.

<span style="color: #FFFF66"> She is a very political animal but that, in itself, is not bad. She did need Clinton if she wanted to be any more than a footnote in history and he gave her that opportunity. Clinton would have been successful, perhaps even more so, if he were married to someone else. She needed him. She knew that, you won't accept it. It does not mean it is not true. She is a cleaver and talented person. </span>

Bill Clinton was a good president, and most americans think so, and one thing is for sure, he surely didn't leave this country in the kind of mess it is in right now. Bush has destroyed us, and our former good reputation around the world. Clinton is loved all over the world, but just ask anyone who travels abroad what the people in the world think about America, and George bush.

<span style="color: #FFFF66"> Clinton was not a bad president aside from personal poor judgements. However, Bill was not running, Hillary was and she was rejected for what some consider a better candidate for the Democrats. I disagree with their choice as you know. I think Hillary would have been a much stronger candidate than Obama. I know she is about 10 times more capable than he is. She, in fact has said both she and McCain are the two qualified for the office, if I recall correctly (and I do) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif . </span>






None of that was my imagination. </div></div>

Gayle in MD
06-09-2008, 03:27 PM
Deeman,
I don't think Bill Clinton would have won the presidency, without Hillary at his side, from the very beginning of his political life, hence, his statment when he won the election for president, that America would be getting two for one.

I get the feeling that you have never been hooked up with an enterprising woman. In that case, I can understand your flawed view of what her value actually was, to his success.

BTW, will you PAHLEEEZE stop using yellow! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

Gayle in Md.

cheesemouse
06-09-2008, 03:50 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

BTW, will you PAHLEEEZE stop using yellow! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

Gayle in Md.</div></div> I second that....I feel like I'm loosing my balance sitting in my chair when I see that yellow font...pleeeassee stop...oh, the humanity:)

Deeman3
06-09-2008, 03:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Deeman,
I don't think Bill Clinton would have won the presidency, without Hillary at his side, from the very beginning of his political life, hence, his statment when he won the election for president, that America would be getting two for one.

He was, of course, basically turned out of office in his second Governor's term becuase she was his wife in Arkansas. I was there. I do not think she impacted his election to President but could be wrong as I sometimes am.

I get the feeling that you have never been hooked up with an enterprising woman. In that case, I can understand your flawed view of what her value actually was, to his success.

I have never been married to an enterprising woman and was only "hooked up" to one when single. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I was married to a woman who aided my career greatly by allowing me to focus on that career very specifically. I give her credit and a lot of money now. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif She had a degree and was intellegent. She was one hell of a skater. She would have done well in the academic world but not well at business. She did a remarkable job of raiseing my two gifted daughters who now make more than most men in their careers (except that one "retired" at 28 to raise my grandkids, her choice not mine nor her husbands. She is no less a woman and a graduate of Notre Dame Law, but has litle interest in become president, although capable of it if she had the background in politics. She is a staunch Republican of her own accord. My youngest is a VP in a cosmetics company but is a Democrat. It can't be helped but she also does not want to be a politician, just a rich liberal. She is well on her way.

BTW, will you PAHLEEEZE stop using yellow! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

What is this xenophobic fear you and Q have of yellow? Do you not recognise the many contributions of people of the color yellow to our society, therfore the world? not to mention the value of highlighters? What color do you prefer? White? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

</div></div>

Deeman3
06-10-2008, 07:30 AM
Ha! Still no response from the "Yellow" haters! Please, even if you won't answer the real questions, let me know what color irritates you less and we can work it into the "fairness" doctrine. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eb_in_nc
06-10-2008, 08:03 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What is this xenophobic fear you and Q have of yellow? Do you not recognise the many contributions of people of the color yellow to our society, therfore the world? not to mention the value of highlighters? What color do you prefer? White? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

</div></div> </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">I think her choice of color would most certainly be red. Better red than dead!</span>

Gayle in MD
06-10-2008, 08:23 AM
Blue shows well, both for the voting booth, and for reading... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

eg8r
06-10-2008, 10:38 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now you can deny it all you wish, but I do get around town, and I know who the womanizers are</div></div>LOL, you might want to reword this a little bit. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

cheesemouse
06-10-2008, 03:49 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ha! Still no response from the "Yellow" haters! Please, even if you won't answer the real questions, let me know what color irritates you less and we can work it into the "fairness" doctrine. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif</div></div> Maybe you have your background on your screen set where you see the yellow nicely but I would bet that most have a white background. On my white background your yellow text looks like a pile of maggots, virtually unreadable. I like your bold black font. If you cannot relate change your background to white and you will immediately understand....thank for listening...:)

hondo
06-10-2008, 06:07 PM
I just don't read your posts anymore.
I assumed that was your intention.

pooltchr
06-10-2008, 07:34 PM
If you want to read the yellow posts, simply click your mouse at the beginning and drag it over the text. It stands out quite nicely.
Steve

sack316
06-11-2008, 03:14 AM
<span style="color: #FFFFFF">I'm gonna type in white from now on</span>

by the way, above this says "I'm gonna type in white from now on" /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif really, highlight it, I did! Now I have a new way to push my subliminal messages upon you.

Sack

Deeman3
06-11-2008, 07:55 AM
Cheese:

Yes, I have a black background, just to show my lack of prejudice, but I will refrain from using the yellow in the future despite the fact it kept Hondo from reading my posts. Think of the pleasant days I have given him doing that lately. It's like, all of a sudden, I can't get Fox on my TV.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Thanks for your explaination. I am about as technical as a bag of tomatos. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif How may people are so stupid they can put themsleves on ignore? Me, Me,.....ME!

cheesemouse
06-11-2008, 10:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cheese:

Yes, I have a black background, just to show my lack of prejudice, but I will refrain from using the yellow in the future despite the fact it kept Hondo from reading my posts. Think of the pleasant days I have given him doing that lately. It's like, all of a sudden, I can't get Fox on my TV.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Thanks for your explaination. I am about as technical as a bag of tomatos. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif How may people are so stupid they can put themsleves on ignore? Me, Me,.....ME!</div></div> Thank you kind sir....now if I could just get you to change your content....:)

Deeman3
06-11-2008, 10:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cheesemouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cheese:

Yes, I have a black background, just to show my lack of prejudice, but I will refrain from using the yellow in the future despite the fact it kept Hondo from reading my posts. Think of the pleasant days I have given him doing that lately. It's like, all of a sudden, I can't get Fox on my TV.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Thanks for your explaination. I am about as technical as a bag of tomatos. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif How may people are so stupid they can put themsleves on ignore? Me, Me,.....ME!</div></div> Thank you kind sir....now if I could just get you to change your content....:) </div></div>

Cheese,

You know, funny you should mention that but it about time in my life that i become much more liberal. After all, in a few years I'll be wanting all the benefits of an entitlement culture. Free health care, enhanced social security and freedom from worry over war should start topping my agenda any day now. I'll just have to wean myself from a lot of things. I started with the stock market about 7 months ago and am considering retiring (again) in a few years. It just gets boring, I know it did in my mid 40's.

I could volunteer for the VP slot with oObama of replace his former pastor at his old church. I don't know!!

Please fell free to make content change recommendations. I'll condier all alternatives that don't incluse me in a Thong or Speedo. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

cheesemouse
06-11-2008, 12:44 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cheesemouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deeman3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cheese:

Yes, I have a black background, just to show my lack of prejudice, but I will refrain from using the yellow in the future despite the fact it kept Hondo from reading my posts. Think of the pleasant days I have given him doing that lately. It's like, all of a sudden, I can't get Fox on my TV.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Thanks for your explaination. I am about as technical as a bag of tomatos. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif How may people are so stupid they can put themsleves on ignore? Me, Me,.....ME!</div></div> Thank you kind sir....now if I could just get you to change your content....:) </div></div>

Cheese,

You know, funny you should mention that but it about time in my life that i become much more liberal. After all, in a few years I'll be wanting all the benefits of an entitlement culture. Free health care, enhanced social security and freedom from worry over war should start topping my agenda any day now. I'll just have to wean myself from a lot of things. I started with the stock market about 7 months ago and am considering retiring (again) in a few years. It just gets boring, I know it did in my mid 40's.

I could volunteer for the VP slot with oObama of replace his former pastor at his old church. I don't know!!

Please fell free to make content change recommendations. I'll condier all alternatives that don't incluse me in a Thong or Speedo. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div> DeeMan,
It sounds like we have a new start available for you if you can except the premise that you are a good deserving person and you should have a chance to live out your life in tranquility, peace, and harmony. I'm afraid I am ill equipt to give specific content suggestions but they happen kind of surrepitiously anyway. I can tell you when you have finally gotten there though. One day you will be sitting at a stop light and some young teenagers will be crossing in front of you. They will have their hats on sideways, their pants will be falling off, their underware will be showing, the girls will have tattoes and rings in their noses, one may have a multi-colored mohawk haircut, their shoes will be untied, they will all be talking on cell phones, they will all be walking as if there is some stange beat happening, and you will acknowledge them by raising your fingers from the steering wheeling and they will acknowledge you back with some sort of unintelligable hand signals. You will just smile and think "is'nt it wonderful to be young"....when that happens you will be there DeeMan...cheers and good luck with the journey...LOL

Deeman3
06-11-2008, 01:06 PM
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Gayle in MD
06-11-2008, 04:07 PM
If the Washington D.C. media was not tilted right, we would never have ended up in this idiotic war.

Gayle in Md.