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Vagabond
06-11-2008, 03:51 PM
http://www.justsaynodeal.com

click on the above link and join today.
If the top brass wanted the pary to stay united they should have stayed neutral instead of suppoting Obama during the primaries.screw the party leaders and i am going for mccain.

Gayle in MD
06-12-2008, 08:00 PM
I'm angry about what they did, also, friend, but there's no way in hell I'd vote for McCain! The man's not stable. And, we need to bring our troops home, not build 50 bases in Iraq, while our bridges and tunnels are collapsing right here at home, and the dollar is going down the drain.

We've lost eight years in moving forward with biofuels, and wind and solar and electric automobiles, and higher cafe' standards, and Republicans have blocked everything we need to address, and move forward, right down to taxing big oil for failing to spend any of the subsidies we've given them, to move toward renewable clean energy. We can't afford to lose another four to eight years, the Republicans will have us all speaking Chinese. They've practically put us in the poor house as it is, and our safety here at home has been greatly compromised by their policies.

We had a big surplus. If Bush hadn't lied us into this war, and hadn't been nothing but a CEO for big oil, we could have come a long was away from depencence on Middle East oil. We could be firing up new nuclear plants around the country, and alughing at the Arabs, instead, Bush goes begging, and they laugh at him.

Being financially in the hole, doesn't make us look like a super power, that's for sure, and what good has going into Iraq, brought to our country, it has only made our enemies stronger, and weakened our influence.

No, we can't afford a nut like John McCain calling the shots. It would be the worst thing that could happen.

Gayle in Md.

mike60
06-15-2008, 07:21 PM
I'm a 62 year old Republican raised in Conservative Bucks County Pa. No way McCain
gets my vote... He has said anything to anybody to get this far... His temper is too often exercised in the Cloak Room of the Senate... Next...

Deeman3
06-17-2008, 07:42 AM
So, we end up with someone who even Gayle has called an empty suit in the White House!

I guess that's o.k. but if you are all voting to have the first black president over anything else, we will somehow endure it.

As I have said many times, I am not thrilled with McCain but have not seen a candidate that is worthly of our vote in many, many years. If Hillary, Obama and McCain are the best this country has to offer, we are in trouble.

pooltchr
06-17-2008, 05:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We've lost eight years in moving forward with biofuels,
Gayle in Md.



</div></div>

Do you honestly think biofuels are the way of the future. 15% of our corn crop has been diverted to make ethonol, and the price of food goes up. Now, with the flooding in the midwest, it looks like corn is going to be harder to find than an honest Democrat in Washington! At least McCain did come out with the possibility of opening up US exploration for oil. That is the only thing that is going to ease the energy crunch in the near future. Electric cars are going to require either more coal fired power plants or nuclear plants to provide the electricity. Anybody on your side supporting new power plants?

Obama just wants to create more dependency on the government by more people. "Free" college for every kid, "Free" healthcare for all Americans, etc are populist ideas designed to buy votes...but in the end, as some of us have learned over the years, when a politician says free, they mean, paid for by everyone else.

You go ahead and vote the party line, just as you have said you were going to do long before we even knew who the candidates would be. And I hope for all of our sakes that he isn't able to do anything he has said he wants to do.

Steve

mike60
06-17-2008, 08:11 PM
Nuclear Power. Ugly but with legs. Build and protect. Work on doing something with the leftovers. Drilling for oil in the US is a joke. Thee isn't enough to make a difference. Electric cars are fine if you have the Nuclear Power to charge em up.
As long as Cheney and his ilk are making BILLIONS FROM $5 GAS keep wishing in one hand and pissing in the other and see which one fills up first.

mike60
06-17-2008, 08:17 PM
Steve, We are the richest country in the world with the worst health care among the leaders. This bullshit about free college and free health care:

Obama just wants to create more dependency on the government by more people. "Free" college for every kid, "Free" healthcare for all Americans, etc are populist ideas designed to buy votes...but in the end, as some of us have learned over the years, when a politician says free, they mean, paid for by everyone else.

It means that the BILLIONS going into the pockets of thieves that charge $7 for a bandaid will go into a national health program that will even include you.
Get a clue.

sack316
06-18-2008, 02:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike60</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Drilling for oil in the US is a joke. Thee isn't enough to make a difference. </div></div>

And we would know this how exactly? Through all the exploration and searching we are not currently allowed to do?

I do actually agree there probably isn't enough oil here to make a long term solution out of. But there darn sure would be enough to put a temporary band-aid on the problem as we research and develop alternative means.

One problem is we are all fighting over which means of energy we should use. I say the answer isn't about any one way, it about how many ways can we come up with... using them in conjunction with each other to hopefully become energy independent. take all the possibilities together, then instead of us using "or" as the conjunction we should use "and"... that would make a big difference right there.

First I'm thinking we should probably do away with all the bureaucracy and red tape involved with energy production, so then maybe, just maybe we can actually accomplish something. It's sad to think of all these other countries that are energy independent while we continually bury ourselves at the mercy of others.

Sack

mike60
06-18-2008, 03:45 AM
Actually the oil companies and thousands of independent wildcatters have been all
over the USA and the off shore areas looking for oil. They have the knowledge but mostly the prices haven't supported the labor required. Or the lands are off limits
for whatever reason. The oil companies have never given back a dime to the public.
Your temporary band-aid isn't practical and will screw up more than it helps.
Some off shore would make sense.

sack316
06-18-2008, 06:50 AM
Please do explain how it wouldn't be practical... do you mean practical for us as a nation or for the oil companies? I'm hungry for a pizza, I have one in my freezer already and all it will take is a little time and effort to go hunt it down, retrieve it, and cook it up. Or I could choose to spend an extra ten to fifteen bucks and order one from Dominos, but then my hunger is at the mercy of their delivery driver. If I'm hungry right now, which is more practical to my needs as well as financially?

I am aware of people searching for oil here as well as offshore, and as far as I know it is estimated that we would have enough oil for ourselves for anywhere from 15-30 years. I know, not much time in the grand scheme of things, and it is but a drop in the proverbial bucket... but as I said earlier if we could cut out all the bureaucracy that is ample time to develop alternative means. Yeah I'd hate to lose a National park somewhere, but I'd also hade to see a Saudi flag flying in it's place (yeah, a stretch there but you know what i mean).

If the price of oil now doesn't support the labor required... either we're complaining a lot about nothing or our workforce requires too much pay. If we could even just go as far to show that we could try and succeed, the price of oil would drop dramatically.

Finally, as far as I know the oil companies still pay taxes... beyond that what duty would a private company have to give back to the public? Morally yeah, maybe so, but what obligation do they really have? They are doing well now, take away their subsidies... they don't need it (give it to airlines or car manufacturers maybe?).

No matter what, surely you must agree doing something is better than nothing?

Sack

Gayle in MD
06-18-2008, 08:27 AM
Bravo! Good to have atleast ONE reasonable Republican posting here, the rest are mostly part of the radical wingnut extremists of your party.

American oil companies have 68 million acres already leased, yet they won't drill on it, and the Republican party is trying to suggest that only drilling off our shores can increase the numbers of barrels we can produce here. A feeble atempt to try to pit conservation of our planet, against the financial desperation that the gouging by big oil has created for middle America, and a way to demonize Democratics, in the process. It's a scam.

Our coastlines bring us billions every year in recreation and travel dollars, including jobs, yet Republicans think we should take chances with ruining all that? Totally not necessary, and just another political game.

Big Oil is making the greatest profits ever recorded, anywhere, and yet they need our tax dollars? I don't think so. this is nothing but a Bush/cheney/big oil/ scam for making billionaire oil CEO's as wealthy as possible, and driving up oil prices, aided by American hedge funders, who don't give a damn about what Americans pay for oil.

You are so right about McCain. He's not stable, and he's just more Bush, more bombs, more being ripped off by Iraq, for nothing, and borrowing from China to pay for all of it.

Anyone who would vote for John McCain, who has flip flopped on EVERYTHING, for political purposes, is voting for more failure, more disgrace, more debt, and more policies that will assist the terrorists in indoctrinating more young people to take up their cause.

Burried in debt, is what George Bush's legacy has brought us, and McCain, wants more debt. All his BS about vetoes for pork, is BS. He voted against everything he is now in favor of, and is not mentally stable enough to run this country.

Gayle in Md.

Vapros
06-18-2008, 09:03 AM
Hatred is corrosive. It will eat you up from the inside and kill you like a dog. I have heard of people being struck down in the street by it.

I hope one of you kind-hearted liberal Democrats will bring this to Gayle's attention, as she no longer reads posts from us scumbags. It may be too late, but the effort should be made.

Deeman3
06-18-2008, 09:13 AM
What is really funny is that she responded to her cohort and answered and agreed with comments he did not even make. Not only is it hate, it is delusion.

She/they can't let Obama's and McCain's policys speak but must go back down into the mud therefore changing debate to mud slinging personal attacks.

mike60
06-18-2008, 06:39 PM
Please list the personal attacks by Obama upon McCain. McCains minions have already done plenty of dishonorable attacks upon Obama. McCain claims to have no influence on groups like the swiftboat liars. He can't stop them from phony ads or
their scumbag attacks. In 2004 Bush minions attacked McCain in North Carolina by
claiming McCain fathered a black child when in fact McCain had adopted the child.
McCain is now employing the people that attacked him in 2004. So save the tears for
your own lame selves as you will be crying after November. Twits.

Mike60 vet&voting

jayalley
06-19-2008, 05:07 AM
Please stop with the bogus "I'm a Republican" nonsense. You may have been, though I doubt it, but you have been rehashing all the usual democratic party/Obama talking points in your posts.

Gee....newbie self-proclaimed Republican repeatedly attacks McCain....only little Gayle could be stupid enough to believe this.

Deeman3
06-19-2008, 07:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please list the personal attacks by Obama upon McCain. McCains minions have already done plenty of dishonorable attacks upon Obama. McCain claims to have no influence on groups like the swiftboat liars. He can't stop them from phony ads or
their scumbag attacks. In 2004 Bush minions attacked McCain in North Carolina by
claiming McCain fathered a black child when in fact McCain had adopted the child.
McCain is now employing the people that attacked him in 2004. So save the tears for
your own lame selves as you will be crying after November. Twits.

Mike60 vet&voting </div></div>

Those same surrogates for Obama attacked Cindy McCain for her release of tax records, now are playing off McCain's age and quoting the "hundred years in Iraq" which they know is not genuine and incomplete. If you somehow beleive the Democrats are playing by superior rules to the Republicans you are fooling yourself.

Obama is now doing a make over of his wife ans saying lay off her while his people through PACs will do as much or worse than McCain.

Yes, they can. Yes, they will.

I have no problem with someone supporting Obama just don't pretent he is a really different politician. He is just another Chicago political animal. Not good, not that bad. Just too liberal for me.

Gayle in MD
06-19-2008, 09:12 AM
Deeman,
You're really so funny. Mud slinging, and personal attacks? Gee, I'm sure no Republican would ever stoop to such tactics!

Delusional is believing that Republican policies have been good for America, and going right back out there and voting for another swaggering Republican, just because you think he won't raise your taxes.

"We'll be greeted as Liberators."

"The oil will pay for it."

"The insurgency is in its last throes?"

"We don't want the wake up call to come in the form of a mushroom cloud"

"British intelligence has confirmed that Saddam recently tried to acquire Yellow Cake."

"The aluminum tubes could only be for WMD purposes..."

"If somebody in my administration was involved, I want to know about it, and I'll take care of it."

Delusional? Yep! That's exactly how Republicans have acted for nearly eight years! Our trillions of debt, weakened dollar, failure to address our energy disasters, and loss of respect in the world, all represent the greatest cause of the severe National Security threat which we now face.

Thank you Bush, and the Republicans who supported you!

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
06-19-2008, 12:00 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gayle wrote: We've lost eight years in moving forward with biofuels, and wind and solar and electric automobiles, and higher cafe' standards, and Republicans have blocked everything we need to address, and move forward, right down to taxing big oil for failing to spend any of the subsidies we've given them, to move toward renewable clean energy. We can't afford to lose another four to eight years, the Republicans will have us all speaking Chinese. They've practically put us in the poor house as it is, and our safety here at home has been greatly compromised by their policies.

</div></div>

Steve writes...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Do you honestly think biofuels are the way of the future. <span style="color: #000066">Notice how you took one thing out of context, and then built a tirade attack on something I never said. NO, I don't think any one thing will solve our problems, as I stated, it will take a whole range of things from solar, to wind, to clean coal, Nuclear power, higher cafe' standards, remember them? The important efforts which could have made all the difference, except that Bush, reduced the numbers on Cafe' Standards as soon as he crashed into the Whtie House, remember, he invaded Iraq, and that was his entire energy policy, that and his secret dealings with big oil. </span> 15% of our corn crop has been diverted to make ethonol, and the price of food goes up. Now, with the flooding in the midwest, it looks like corn is going to be harder to find than an honest Democrat in Washington! At least McCain did come out with the possibility of opening up US exploration for oil. That is the only thing that is going to ease the energy crunch in the near future. Electric cars are going to require either more coal fired power plants or nuclear plants to provide the electricity. Anybody on your side supporting new power plants?
</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At least McCain did come out with the possibility of opening up US exploration for oil. That is the only thing that is going to ease the energy crunch in the near future. </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">The oil companies already have 68 million acres of oil leases which they have failed to use. Why in the world should they get more? They have failed completely to increase refineries. They have failed to use the subsidies that they get from American tax payers to reduce our dependency on foreign oil, something that ONLY Jimmy Carter managed to do.

Regardless of how many barrels of oil we pump, higher cafe' standards are essential to getting more out of what we have. Why are we still driving vehicles that can't get more then forty miles a gallon? Republican policies, that's why. They wiggle around everything that has anything to do with reducing oil consumption, they just spent the last eight years calling everyone who has been crying out for a more responsible energy policy "Tree Huggers" I don't suppose you think that has anything to do with a White House full of oil men? There is no reason to put our coastlines at risk in order to solve our energy problems.

Bush has done nothing to promote reduction on oil consumption. McCain's campaign is chock full of lobbyists connected to Oil, Iran, and other inhumane radical countries. I hardly think you are one to be dissing how others vote. You did vote twice for George bush, right?

You ignore rhelms of proof about the incompetence, waste, lies, corruption and illegal activities of this administration, and then you bash others for refusing to vote Republican! BWA HA HA HA....that's really funny. How do you like Bush's welfare program for the insurgents who were killing our troops? What if we had spent all the trillions he has wasted in Iraq, an effort which Iran and bin Laden are loving, re-building our infrastructure? Researching renewable fuels? The whole damned Mississippi River is overflowing, because the Levies aren't stable. Is there anything that is wrong in this country that you think can be laid at Bush feet? How about forty-one hundred dead American soldiers? do you think he made them safer?

Anyone who would vote Republican after everything we've seen them do to this country, is nuts!

Gayle in Md.</span>

Bobbyrx
06-19-2008, 12:01 PM
"So save the tears for
your own lame selves as you will be crying after November. Twits."
Written like a true life long Republican......lol

Deeman3
06-19-2008, 12:13 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Deeman,
You're really so funny. Mud slinging, and personal attacks? Gee, I'm sure no Republican would ever stoop to such tactics!

Gayle ion Md.

</div></div>


<span style="color: #FF0000"> Gayle,

I never said that Republicans don't use smear tactics, just that the Democrats do it as well. Maybe not as well, but they do them. </span>

Gayle in MD
06-19-2008, 12:43 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What is really funny is that she responded to her cohort and answered and agreed with comments he did not even make. Not only is it hate, it is delusion.

She/they can't let Obama's and McCain's policys speak but must go back down into the mud therefore changing debate to mud slinging personal attacks. </div></div>

Lately I've made an effort to communicate with you on a higher level than what passes for debate around here. Accusing others of hate because they are angry about a lying, dishonest, incompetent administration, is not my idea of friendly debate.

We now have a surplus of offensive right wing posters. I hold you above their tactics, but accusing me of hate, doesn't make that easy to do.

For years I've posted information about the vast wrong doing of this administration here. I think it's fair to say that much of it has since been investigated, and proven to have been accurate.
I also posted information which I recieved from personal friends, who worked in the Senate Office Building for decades, about John McCain, and his dangerous temper. that was before I had ever reqad anything about it in the papers, or wirtten by members of his own party.

I doubt very much that you would consider voting for a Democratic Candidate about whom you had heard such stories, from lifelong friends, that you grew up with, from your old neighborhood, if the circumstances were reversed.

I get really tired of people saying that all of we Americans who are angry about the incompetence and lies, the waste and failures of this administration, are hateful, rather than acknowledging that there are plenty of reasons for AMericans to be angry at George Bush, and at the many Republicans who skewed reality in their positions on the HIll, in order to assist him in those lies, and failures.

I see John McCain as one of those. I hear things he says every day, and he is still lying for bush, and about Iraq.

I don't think a "Surge" that depends on a welfare program for insurgents who were killing our troops, and fully intend to go back to killing our troops, eventually, can be called a success. the reduction in violence, is great, I'm very happy about that, but it won't last, and already it is increasing weekly, little by little.

There has been no political progress made in Iraq, and it is clear now, to most foreign experts, that Maliki has far more loyalty to Iran, than to America, and that Iran has been the winner in this occupation.

When I think of all the American families that have suffered, all the troops who have lost their lives, and limbs, all to get rid of one man, Saddam, who was of no immediate threat to us, and all the strife and debt that we as American have suffered, and then I see Maliki hugging Achmadinejad, and the Talliban and al Qaeda resurgent, and franchising, as I watch our own infrastructure collapse around us, from floods, and from structural failure, and our economic circumstances, along with a coming price of &6.00 at the gas tanks, I must say, I truly do not know how anyone could possibly go out and vote Republican.

I most surely do not think that any emotion of hatred would be necessary in order to hold that opinion. If I am wrong, than two thirds of this country is illogically, delusionally, crippled with hatred.

Gayle in Md,

Deeman3
06-19-2008, 12:56 PM
Gayle,

I am having too much fun on this site to be making people feel bad or even to accuse them of motives I can't really be sure of.

If I hear things about McCain from lifelong friends as you suggest, I'll take them seriouly about him. However, as I have said. I am not a proponent of John McCain. I wish we had other alternatives. Sadly, we do not. If you are right about McCain and many feel as I do and probably stay home, the dark side (JK) will win anyway and we will have a few years to evaluate Obama.

Your statement about two thirds fo the country being cripled with hate may not be correct as just because 29% of Americans disapprove of Bush, the war, etc. does not mean that 71% hold your values. That is a silly translation of data. Perhaps only a small part of those people are crippled with hate. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

I AM JUST KIDDING!

I think I'll slink to the middle for a while let the fringes on both sides go at it for a bit. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Vagabond
06-20-2008, 10:02 PM
gayle,
your are a kind and sweet lady.If anybody says otherwise will not be dignified.

Vapros
06-21-2008, 08:29 AM
Well done, Vagabond. In a single line you have made adequate response to a million words of spite and malice. I am impressed.

Gayle in MD
06-22-2008, 08:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you honestly think biofuels are the way of the future. 15% of our corn crop has been diverted to make ethonol, and the price of food goes up. </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We've lost eight years in moving forward with biofuels, and wind and solar and electric automobiles, and higher cafe' standards, and Republicans have blocked everything we need to address, and move forward, right down to taxing big oil for failing to spend any of the subsidies we've given them, to move toward renewable clean energy. </div></div> </div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">Could you please stop twisting what I write? No. It will be a part of what we will continue to research for solutions. A good beginning, would be to reverse the reduction of the Cafe' standards which Bush immediately reduced when he crashed into the White HOuse. He's only interested in the bottom line, for his corporate Fascist pigs.

</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obama just wants to create more dependency on the government by more people. "Free" college for every kid, "Free" healthcare for all Americans, etc are populist ideas designed to buy votes...but in the end, as some of us have learned over the years, when a politician says free, they mean, paid for by everyone else.

</div></div>

Right now your tax dollars are supporting a welfare program in Iraq for radicals who killed our troops. It's a Republican thing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now, with the flooding in the midwest, </div></div>

Yes, while Bush is re-building Iraq, after he blew it to smitherines, our infrastructure is crumbling, hence, multiple levies failed along the Mississippi, Levies that had already been deemed as degrading. As is our dollar, and our honor, declines, and debts and our threats rise, it might be worth attention to the fact that Bush, a REPUBLICAN, has been running thie country for the last almost eight years. McCain, supports all of his failed policies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but in the end, as some of us have learned over the years, when a politician says free, they mean, paid for by everyone else.

</div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">"The costs of the invasion are being overstated. Iraqi oil will pay for it." </span>


Gayle in Md.
Definition of Republican Policies: fascism n. a merging of the interests of big corporations and government, adjoined with a systematic curtailment of civil liberties


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>