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brian_m
06-25-2008, 04:04 PM
newb to the fourms here!!

my question is that i just started really getting into pool the past 8 months or so. and alot of my buddys play in the local apa legues and i always play with them so we play apa rules. and i feel that playing with them is always a challenge and alot of fun. but when i go to say my local fav bar and play random people none of them want to play with rules (other than you must call your pocket) and i hate it. i have had to walk away from too many games due to people (drunk or not) getting pissed about playing a safety or getting that way before we even start casue of the way i want to play.

how do you guys deal with this? (dont get me wrong its not like i have to play by those rules or i dont play at all but when i get a guy that comes up to me and plays better than me by bar rules it would be nice to have a chance in winning.)

another good point is why is it such a big no no to play a safety in a game. when i play with my SL5 and SL6 buddys i cant win a game without playing a few safetys a game. (not that i win many anyways /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Vapros
06-25-2008, 05:20 PM
IMO the best way to deal with this is to go somewhere else to play your pool. Deliver me from anybody who is offended by a safety play. I know some areas where one can hear a name for this kind of pool which is politically incorrect for use in this day and age.

Safety play is important in all pool games I know about.

brian_m
06-25-2008, 05:35 PM
yeah i think i might try changing my bar. it just baffles me how the more i learn about pool and how it is supposed to be played, the more i notice people that give me a hard time about playing a safety. i thought the point of playing any game was to win? im not out there to make you feel good about your playing. ive had


this convo with my wife many times when we play doubles and i always tell her "safetys win games" if you dont have a shot dont try some 45 rail combo just play a safety and even she feels like she is cheating in some way.

Rich R.
06-26-2008, 06:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brian_m</div><div class="ubbcode-body">newb to the fourms here!!

my question is that i just started really getting into pool the past 8 months or so. and alot of my buddys play in the local apa legues and i always play with them so we play apa rules. and i feel that playing with them is always a challenge and alot of fun. but when i go to say my local fav bar and play random people none of them want to play with rules (other than you must call your pocket) and i hate it. i have had to walk away from too many games due to people (drunk or not) getting pissed about playing a safety or getting that way before we even start casue of the way i want to play.

how do you guys deal with this? (dont get me wrong its not like i have to play by those rules or i dont play at all but when i get a guy that comes up to me and plays better than me by bar rules it would be nice to have a chance in winning.)

another good point is why is it such a big no no to play a safety in a game. when i play with my SL5 and SL6 buddys i cant win a game without playing a few safetys a game. (not that i win many anyways /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif </div></div>
The big problem with bar rules is that there are too many bars and too many sets of rules. Play your pool where players know at least one official set of rules. I don't care if they are APA, BCA or Official World rules, but you have to use an official set of rules. That way, everyone is on the same page and playing by the same rules.

The only people who do not want to play by rules are usually non-players and they don't really know any rules. The same goes for people who don't want you to play a safety. They aren't really players at all.

MAC
06-26-2008, 08:14 AM
I've had the same problem in the past, however I didnt give up on the place I adapted. I just made it a point to call ALL my shots and if the ball wasnt going to go clean I would tell them it would go in off of another ball etc.

Eric.
06-26-2008, 08:45 AM
Unfortunately, thats just the way it is with bar room 8 ball. BTW, it's like this everywhere (safeties are a no-no, call every rail, ball, etc that the shot involves, etc).

Like others have said, there are so many variations to the rules but the universal ones are that safeties are taboo and the 8 ball must go in clean (from what I've seen in my travels).

The bottom line on safeties is that if you play one, you better call a pocket and make it look like you were going for the shot ;-)


Eric &gt;that shot almost went

Deeman3
06-26-2008, 08:56 AM
Same experience here...

MAC
06-26-2008, 09:06 AM
That is the only way to play a safety without being slandered or threatened in a game of bar pool.

Rail Rat
06-26-2008, 09:41 AM
I played bar pool for money in my younger days and finally gave it up after more grief than it was worth. With their rules, winning comes down more to luck than skill, I think thats the way they like it.

Best to only play it with your buds.

Billy_Bob
06-26-2008, 09:51 AM
Bar rules means no rules. There are no written bar rules! Therefore these can be changed at any time by anyone as the need arises, usually after someone shoots!

If someone tells you there is a certain bar rule, ask to see it in writing. "Where does it say that? Show me!"

Then get out a BCA World Standardized Rule Book (the real official rules) and show them the true rules that they play by on TV.

Get books here (get copy for bar)...
http://www.poolndarts.com/p-4106--Billiard-Congress-of-America-BCA-Rule-Book-/

So far as safeties go, don't say safety. Don't shoot any obvious slow safety shots. BUT, you have 6 pockets to shoot any ball at. So instead of shooting a ball at the obvious pocket, call a bank shot into some other pocket that will leave the cue ball in a nasty spot. Your aiming can be quite off of course. Say "Boy I really missed that shot!" (Of course you were just trying to leave the cue ball on the far rail or whatever.)

Actually bar rules tournaments do NOTHING to stop better players from playing safeties. They just don't call them and make it look like they were trying for a bank shot.

Also you can intentionally miscue and send the cue ball to a nasty spot. Practice this first. There is no foul penalty with bar rules.

And you can scratch intentionally. Use a stun shot or the 30 degree rule to send the cue ball into a pocket.

Eric.
06-26-2008, 09:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billy_Bob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If someone tells you there is a certain bar rule, ask to see it in writing. "Where does it say that? Show me!"

Then get out a BCA World Standardized Rule Book (the real official rules) and show them the true rules that they play by on TV.

</div></div>

You, ah, got your azz kicked a lot, huh? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif


Eric

New2Pool
06-26-2008, 10:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billy_Bob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If someone tells you there is a certain bar rule, ask to see it in writing. "Where does it say that? Show me!"

Then get out a BCA World Standardized Rule Book (the real official rules) and show them the true rules that they play by on TV.

</div></div>

You, ah, got your azz kicked a lot, huh? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif


Eric </div></div>

LOL, that is kind of what I thought when I read that. Around here a lot of the bar players consider getting in a fight while playing pool a feature of the game not a flaw.

MAC
06-26-2008, 10:39 AM
Have you actually tried this? If you pulled out a rule book in most of bars where I live and tried proving someones bar rules wrong, the only rules they have played by mind you. Most likely you would be ran off the table or force fed your rule book by some intoxicated guy everyone calls Bubba.

JJFSTAR
06-26-2008, 11:41 AM
Brian you are going through a phase, right now you are irritated by bar rules and you loose sometimes because of the rules. If you continue to study and grow to finally become an expert pool player you will no longer be irritated by those rules and therefore you will be able to focus on your game rather than the fact that that guy just fouled and you cant walk up to that table and pick up that CB and put it anywhere.

In the near future you will not only be able to beat those people who are “social players” playing with bar call everything stupid made up rules 90% of the time but you will realize that the oversized CB’s, the heavy CB’s, the quality of the cloth, the quality of the balls, the dead rails, the lack of knowledge and the lack of maintenance of the tables themselves will not be contributing to to your advancement as a player. But you being so new to the game you will benefit from just knocking around any set of balls on any table with any cue.

So go ahead and continue to play at bars with bar rules for now. But don’t get irritated because these people don’t know the rules it will adversely affect your game. Keep focused on the task at hand; your game. Most of these guy’s play “make the OB” it looks like pool but any good pool player can lambaste these guy’s all night long until they get too drunk from the beer they won.

So when you are with your league and tournament player buddies share some of the stupid ridicules calls, statements and shots that you witnessed when playing out at bars, all of you will get a good laugh at those people. Come to the realization that those people are more entertaining than they are irritating.

I could go tonight to Smoking Joes (that’s a local bar with a bad table, bad balls and they play by bar rules) and put up my 50 cents win the table and play and drink all night for nothing. I have done that and still sometimes do just to boost my ego especially when I loose a local tournament that I thought I should have won.

But the fact is that I will sometimes get boycotted in such situations and everyone around me is right to do so because I don’t belong there. I belong on a 9ft table playing pool with other expert pool players not “Darth Vadering” social players out at bars. Playing those people with that equipment is not helping my game at all.

At some point this will be true of you as well. Recognize when you turn that corner it will be within the next couple of years, assuming that keep playing with your tournament buddies and studying everything here in cyberspace.

brian_m
06-26-2008, 04:07 PM
thanks guys i got alot of good info. i think im going to kinda start praticing a little on "oops safetys" just to get that little edge when needed.

but you are right jjfstar it doesnt help my game playing with "bar rules" ive been told by my buddies that i play at a med-high SL3 (and on good nights) low SL4. I have a new table coming to me (me and the inlaws made a deal if i quite smoking for 6months they would get me any table i want 7k or under im on month 3 now!!!) so i just need to hold out a little longer then i can play what ever i want on my table untill then i guess its just the 35 mile drive to my buddies if i want to play some real pool.

Cornerman
06-27-2008, 08:07 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brian_m</div><div class="ubbcode-body">newb to the fourms here!!

my question is that i just started really getting into pool the past 8 months or so. and alot of my buddys play in the local apa legues and i always play with them so we play apa rules. and i feel that playing with them is always a challenge and alot of fun. but when i go to say my local fav bar and play random people none of them want to play with rules (other than you must call your pocket) and i hate it. i have had to walk away from too many games due to people (drunk or not) getting pissed about playing a safety or getting that way before we even start casue of the way i want to play.

how do you guys deal with this? (dont get me wrong its not like i have to play by those rules or i dont play at all but when i get a guy that comes up to me and plays better than me by bar rules it would be nice to have a chance in winning.)

another good point is why is it such a big no no to play a safety in a game. when i play with my SL5 and SL6 buddys i cant win a game without playing a few safetys a game. (not that i win many anyways /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif </div></div>

Find a bar that plays leagues heavily. I know this is easier said than done, but they're out there. Years ago, it wasn't the case, but today, there are enough bars in my area that the "house rules" are either APA or World Standardized Rules.

Fred

cjt08046
06-27-2008, 08:11 AM
Brian m: (me and the inlaws made a deal if i quite smoking for 6months they would get me any table i want 7k or under im on month 3 now!!!)


Wow ... that almost makes me want to start smoking.

Billy_Bob
06-27-2008, 10:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brian_m</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks guys i got alot of good info. i think im going to kinda start praticing a little on "oops safetys" just to get that little edge when needed... </div></div>

Also when playing in a bar, don't get to be "too good"!

Some people will stop playing if you win two or three games in a row. And some will not play anymore if you break and run or leave them with most of their balls on the table (8-ball).

So learn to lose every now and then to keep them playing with you. And learn to miss some shots intentionally so they can pocket a few of their balls. Some players are so bad, you might need to miss your ball and leave the cue ball in a spot where they have an easy shot. This is good "position play" practice for you, your just leaving the cue ball in a good spot for them rather than for yourself.

In desperate situations intentionally scratch on the 8 or "accidentially" knock in the 8 early.

BTW the thing which helped me the most to learn position play (leave cue ball in a good spot for your next shot) was Dr. Dave's DVD. Takes a couple of years to be able to do some of this stuff after learning the various shots, but well worth practicing this stuff daily. Game winning stuff!

For example last night I had a ball clustered with another (tied up) and I got ball-in-hand. I was easily able to line up the cue ball to shoot in another ball and get the cue ball to go forward at the right angle after the shot to break out the cluster. Or have a shot at one end of the table and be able to get the cue ball to go to the opposite end of the table for the next shot down there.

If I have a shot at an angle, I can get the cue ball to go forwards after the shot, go sideways, or come backwards after the shot. This stuff is easy for me now.

Get that DVD here...
http://dr-dave-billiards.com/cd_dvd/dvd_description.html

MAC
06-27-2008, 10:37 AM
In most bars you would not be benefiting by losing intentionally. The only thing you are doing then is forfeiting the table so some other guy play the guy you just lost to. Thats the way we play anyway, winner keeps the table. I think its that way pretty much everywhere.

If your trying run a hustle on someone thats one thing. It seems like you are still learning so I dont think thats the case. The only time I have had anyone stop playing because I won too many in a row we were playing for money. If you are not playing for money you shouldnt have that problem, its all in fun.

Billy_Bob
06-27-2008, 12:54 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In most bars you would not be benefiting by losing intentionally. The only thing you are doing then is forfeiting the table so some other guy play the guy you just lost to. Thats the way we play anyway, winner keeps the table. I think its that way pretty much everywhere...</div></div>

In that case keep winning until you want to take a break!

I live in a rural area and the bars don't get packed like they do in big cities. So sometimes not too many people around to play. Plus I don't drink alcohol, so I tend to leave bars around 10 pm or 11 pm when everyone starts to get on my nerves. (I used to drink and then I could stay out all night no problem!) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

P.S. As to my "rule quoting" above, this mostly happens when someone on another table comes over and asks me a question about what the rule is for this or that. If they pull that bar rule stuff on me, I usually will not play them anymore, so I tend to not play those people. I go there to have fun, not argue with people!

MAC
06-27-2008, 01:16 PM
I guess living in a rural area you dont have many options when it comes to who to play or what to play for. Props on not drinking, I think sometimes I drink so I can tolerate my obnoxious friends /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

I live just south of Nashville so its never too difficult to find a game to my liking.

Eric.
06-27-2008, 01:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: New2Pool</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billy_Bob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If someone tells you there is a certain bar rule, ask to see it in writing. "Where does it say that? Show me!"

Then get out a BCA World Standardized Rule Book (the real official rules) and show them the true rules that they play by on TV.

</div></div>

You, ah, got your azz kicked a lot, huh? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif


Eric </div></div>

LOL, that is kind of what I thought when I read that. Around here a lot of the bar players consider getting in a fight while playing pool a feature of the game not a flaw. </div></div>

That rule book doesnt do one much good when it is shoved up one's azz. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif


Eric

brian_m
06-27-2008, 03:34 PM
well i went out and played last night and was down to 2 balls and one was open and the other froze on a rail with one of his balls froze to it. my shot on my open ball was straight in but i kicked it out and broke open my one froze on the rail my quote "man im never good at those straight in shots" and the next inning i cleared the table. oh yeah i also set the CB where i wanted it and played a good safety while doing all this.

i also had a guy trying to hustle me last night (but i saw him play for a 20 a few tables over and ran out the table in one or two innings. so when he came over to me i said id play him for 5 bucks but it was my rules or he could go on to the next table and try to hustle someone else. ended up winning!!! guy was a good bar player but was lost on what to do when i played a safety and he had no shot. ball in hand for me!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

brian_m
06-27-2008, 03:38 PM
i live about a block away from OU (oklahoma u) and my local bar is within walking distance and there is nothing quite like having a bunch of frat guys walk into our little hole in the wall. talking about how they have 3 tables in there frat house and they play all the time and just running rack after rack after rack on them.

i went through this about 2 weeks ago where i ended up playing prolly 8 different guys from their house and beat them all then decided to quit while i was ahead!! now thats a good feeling.

Billy_Bob
06-28-2008, 08:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brian_m</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well i went out and played last night and was down to 2 balls and one was open and the other froze on a rail with one of his balls froze to it. my shot on my open ball was straight in but i kicked it out and broke open my one froze on the rail my quote "man im never good at those straight in shots" and the next inning i cleared the table. oh yeah i also set the CB where i wanted it and played a good safety while doing all this...</div></div>

Good job! That's the way to do it! You can still play safeties, just can't let them know you are "thinking" or using "strategy". Thinking is not allowed when using bar rules! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

brian_m
06-28-2008, 09:35 AM
yeah i really had to contain myself when it happend so as to not give off that that was what i was trying to do