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DSAPOLIS
06-26-2008, 11:23 AM
I did an analysis of SpiderWebbComm's 39 ball run - it's very entertaining - and available to view on Google and Veoh -

Let me know what you think of it.

14.1 Analysis - 29 Minutes - Veoh (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v14404883kaxsKW8n)

14.1 Analysis - 29 Minutes - Google (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3837602630424633418&hl=en)

The Veoh version is better video quality

There are some problems with the video at the end of the run - not sure what happened there - plus you guys get here my raspy voice (as a result of my Parkinson's Disease - it comes and goes)

Thanks to Dave for being brave enough to allow me to post this up for everybody to watch and listen as I tear into his game apart -

Yes - this is the video with the cat!

av84fun
06-26-2008, 10:10 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DSAPOLIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did an analysis of SpiderWebbComm's 39 ball run - it's very entertaining - and available to view on Google and Veoh -

Let me know what you think of it.

14.1 Analysis - 29 Minutes - Veoh (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v14404883kaxsKW8n)

14.1 Analysis - 29 Minutes - Google (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3837602630424633418&hl=en)

The Veoh version is better video quality

There are some problems with the video at the end of the run - not sure what happened there - plus you guys get here my raspy voice (as a result of my Parkinson's Disease - it comes and goes)

Thanks to Dave for being brave enough to allow me to post this up for everybody to watch and listen as I tear into his game apart -

Yes - this is the video with the cat!

</div></div>

THANKS for the link. Great stuff. You did an excellent job of analysis. And I would hugely recommend the Thorsten Hohman 98 ball run that you also supplied excellent commentary on.

That run is an absolute CLINIC on 14.1.

Regards,
Jim

DSAPOLIS
06-27-2008, 05:38 AM
Thanks, Jim.

I believe the best is still yet to come - Danny Harriman's 280 Ball run is ready on DVD - Danny is doing the commentary on that one - and it is awesome! You can get with Danny on Az, he was taking orders and selling them for $30.

There is also John Schmidt's 245 - IMO one of the best runs I have ever witnessed.

This is all part of an effort by a lot of people (John Schmidt, Bob Jewett, Thorsten Hohmann, Ralf Souquet, Danny Harriman, Kevin Vidal,Dennis Walsh, Steve Lipsky, Dana Stephenson, and ME) to bring the game of straight pool back to prominence. It's a great game, and by far the game's best teacher.

There is so much more that we have planned - If anybody out there wants information on how to start a league - visit http://www.14and1.com

Tony_in_MD
06-27-2008, 06:33 AM
Loved it, analysis and evaluation was excellent.

I missed the cat too. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Eric.
06-27-2008, 09:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DSAPOLIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did an analysis of SpiderWebbComm's 39 ball run - it's very entertaining - and available to view on Google and Veoh -

Let me know what you think of it.

14.1 Analysis - 29 Minutes - Veoh (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v14404883kaxsKW8n)

14.1 Analysis - 29 Minutes - Google (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3837602630424633418&hl=en)

The Veoh version is better video quality

There are some problems with the video at the end of the run - not sure what happened there - plus you guys get here my raspy voice (as a result of my Parkinson's Disease - it comes and goes)

Thanks to Dave for being brave enough to allow me to post this up for everybody to watch and listen as I tear into his game apart -

Yes - this is the video with the cat!

</div></div>

Good stuff, Blackjack. I appreciate the 14.1 insight, I need to play it more.

Just to bust your horns a lil... (you need to say "O.K." a lil less); it makes you sound like the teacher on South Park. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fBurUNN62mw&feature=related

http://bestuff.com/stuff/mr-mackey


Eric &gt;the thorn

Bambu
06-27-2008, 10:15 AM
Great job, much thanks for sharing!

DSAPOLIS
06-27-2008, 10:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">]

Good stuff, Blackjack. I appreciate the 14.1 insight, I need to play it more.

Just to bust your horns a lil... (you need to say "O.K." a lil less); it makes you sound like the teacher on South Park. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fBurUNN62mw&feature=related

http://bestuff.com/stuff/mr-mackey


Eric &gt;the thorn </div></div>

Okay.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

av84fun
06-28-2008, 11:36 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tony_in_MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Loved it, analysis and evaluation was excellent.

I missed the cat too. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif </div></div>

If a cat ever got on my table I wouldn't "miss."

(-:

av84fun
06-28-2008, 11:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DSAPOLIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did an analysis of SpiderWebbComm's 39 ball run - it's very entertaining - and available to view on Google and Veoh -

Let me know what you think of it.

14.1 Analysis - 29 Minutes - Veoh (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v14404883kaxsKW8n)

14.1 Analysis - 29 Minutes - Google (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3837602630424633418&hl=en)

The Veoh version is better video quality

There are some problems with the video at the end of the run - not sure what happened there - plus you guys get here my raspy voice (as a result of my Parkinson's Disease - it comes and goes)

Thanks to Dave for being brave enough to allow me to post this up for everybody to watch and listen as I tear into his game apart -

Yes - this is the video with the cat!

</div></div>

Good stuff, Blackjack. I appreciate the 14.1 insight, I need to play it more.

Just to bust your horns a lil... (you need to say "O.K." a lil less); it makes you sound like the teacher on South Park. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

</div></div>

Ok, I don't agree with you. OK?

(-:

Fran Crimi
06-29-2008, 12:09 PM
Nice commentary.

However, I'm still trying to figure out what he did wrong on his initial break shot. How can a parallel cb /ob position result in anything better than the spread he got? I thought he performed the break shot very well. He got a perfect spread there. If a player doesn't know how to break into the pack with a little side spin, then they're probably not ready to be playing any kind of serious 14.1.

Mizerak's favorite position was a back cut into the break ball where the cb was practically against the side rail and the ob was about a half diamond out. A lot of people would say that was a bad choice as well, not only shooting a back cut but forcing the cb to travel a longer distance to the pack, but it was his favorite setup and it worked great for him.

I often think the main difference between a good player and a great one is more in their attitude than anything else.


Fran

Qtec
06-29-2008, 08:45 PM
As a 14.1 novice, I found the commentary was interesting as it gave an insight into the thoughts of an experienced straight pool player.
A few Qs tho,
Parallel...........what does that mean? Parallel to what?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Mizerak's favorite position was a back cut into the break ball where the cb was practically against the side rail and the ob was about a half diamond out.</div></div>
Makes sense to me because you dont have to play the shot hard to open the pack.. The thinner the cut ,the more energy stays in the Qball. ie try exploding the pack from a 3/4 ball shot. You have to hit it really hard.

Just a thought from a snooker player that knows next to nothing about 14.1.
If the last shot you play is to get perfect position on the break ball, doesn't that mean the the [ last] triangle consists of balls 2,3 and 4? ie, if you are playing to position the Qball on a desired spot, you need 3 balls to do it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I often think the main difference between a good player and a great one is more in their attitude than anything else. </div></div>

At the top levels, its all attitude. If you have the right attitude you can reach the high concentration level that you need to be a top player.
Some people forget that to win your average tourney- played in a day- you need to be sharp for 13-14 hours maybe. To win the US Open etc, you need to play well for a week.


Qtec

DSAPOLIS
06-30-2008, 02:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fran Crimi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice commentary.

However, I'm still trying to figure out what he did wrong on his initial break shot. How can a parallel cb /ob position result in anything better than the spread he got? I thought he performed the break shot very well. He got a perfect spread there. If a player doesn't know how to break into the pack with a little side spin, then they're probably not ready to be playing any kind of serious 14.1.

Mizerak's favorite position was a back cut into the break ball where the cb was practically against the side rail and the ob was about a half diamond out. A lot of people would say that was a bad choice as well, not only shooting a back cut but forcing the cb to travel a longer distance to the pack, but it was his favorite setup and it worked great for him.

I often think the main difference between a good player and a great one is more in their attitude than anything else.


Fran

</div></div>

Fran

I understand what you are saying, but it should be noted that prior to this analysis I had many conversations with Dave and break shots were one of his concerns.

I know how The Miz would hit those break shots - sort of like the Johnny Ervolino super-cut break shots that would make me jump out of my seat -

However - by remaining in a straight line (such as the example I used in the video) you learn how to hit the stack at a natural angle. As you progress as a player and become more proficient at controlling the cue ball on the break shot, then you can add some spin and other elements to the shot.

Keep in mind, the student is learning how to play the game - and does not look at the shots and strategy in the same manner you and I would.

I also have some video of a 98 ball run by Thorsten Hohmann (with my commentary) it is up on youtube - the run ends when he scratches on the break shot - a direct result of trying to do much with the cue ball.

So for when people are trying to learn the game, I try to keep it very basic on the break shot and try to have them set up where they not only have a chance to pocket the balls, but to get into them - get their cue ball out - and get a shot.

I realize that he had a good result off the initial shot, but because of questions he had during a phone conversation, I added that advice into the commentary.

Thorsten Hohmann 98 - part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTWvb_v55xc)
Thorsten Hohmann 98 - part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tXTx8fSYqo&feature=related)
Thorsten Hohmann 98 - part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCJDe59N-Hw&feature=related)
Thorsten Hohmann 98 - part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmEIRYNk3G0&feature=related)
Thorsten Hohmann 98 - part 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POUk9OGdheQ&feature=related)
Thorsten Hohmann 98 - part 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHkZb7JlNPk&feature=related)
Thorsten Hohmann 98 - part 7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPLvXY-MyQY&feature=related)

Fran Crimi
06-30-2008, 03:11 PM
All well and good, Dave; my only point was that there was nothing wrong with his first break shot and I don't see the benefit in being critical of something that was done right. If he had missed the shot then it's understandable that maybe something could be said, but he hit the shot beautifully. I just think that sometimes we can tend to get a little too picky in our critiques. I've done it too at times. You put your review up for everyone to see, so I hope you don't mind my commenting.


One time I was analyzing every miss my student took. Finally he turned to me in exhasperation and said, "Heck, I don't see you making every shot you shoot." That shut me right up. He was right. I was being too picky.

Fran

DSAPOLIS
07-01-2008, 06:30 AM
Fran

Just to clarify my earlier explanation - when Dave and I talked on the phone prior to me putting this together, we had a long conversation on this type of break shot. I explained to him what I call "Neat in - Neat out". He claimed that he was not getting his cue ball free after his break shots.

My definition of neat in - neat out - is ...

Pocketing the break ball, and having the cue ball contact one ball in the stack - only ONE BALL - to spread them out - and getting the cue ball free without having it touch another ball.

The advice I am giving him on the break shot was given to explain HOW to do that - and how having that natural angle in - and - that natural angle out will help him to achieve that a little easier.

In that break shot, the cue ball did get knocked around a little by one of the balls - nothing major - he got a good spread on the balls - but the issue was addressed because that was one of the major problems that he said he was having.

spiderwebcomm
07-01-2008, 11:56 AM
I hear what you're saying Fran. You're right - if you can't hit a break shot with a little sidespin, you're in trouble.

I think Blackjack's comment was mainly focused on the point that I had chosen that angle from the very first shot - which puts me at a disadvantage with control (meaning, if I end up that way mid-run, so be it - work it out - but not on the first shot).

I did spread that first break shot because I hit it almost like an 8-ball break. If I was gambling or playing seriously, I never would have hit it with speed (I'm not Thorsten).

My transition game has improved a lot with that advice, actually. My CB is not getting beat-up and I'm getting a shot. The parallel CB position has helped me apply what I learned from both Blackjack and Joe Tucker on hitting one ball in the stack.

mike60
07-01-2008, 12:52 PM
An idea for 14.1 league play. I proposed this ten years ago to some friends and we
had a good time.
Play one rack games. Alternate breaks. Simple race to five. Makes the break shot
the most important factor and forces learning safety play. Sort of six pocket one pocket. With the short attention span nine ball players not forced to think too hard.
Second round play is two racks making leaving a break shot or safety shot necessary.
Final two players play to fifty or more points.
This format gets the tournament going and rewards the better player as it gets more
difficult to win as you go. Lag for break without hitting the head rail like in the old days.
mike60 running out the door

DSAPOLIS
07-01-2008, 02:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An idea for 14.1 league play. I proposed this ten years ago to some friends and we
had a good time.
Play one rack games. Alternate breaks. Simple race to five. Makes the break shot
the most important factor and forces learning safety play. Sort of six pocket one pocket. With the short attention span nine ball players not forced to think too hard.
Second round play is two racks making leaving a break shot or safety shot necessary.
Final two players play to fifty or more points.
This format gets the tournament going and rewards the better player as it gets more
difficult to win as you go. Lag for break without hitting the head rail like in the old days.
mike60 running out the door </div></div>

There already is a great 14.1 league system, and you can learn about it at

Eric.
07-01-2008, 04:10 PM
Nice shooting, Dave and welcome to CCB.


Eric

spiderwebcomm
07-02-2008, 04:53 PM
Thanks, glad to be here.

mike60
07-02-2008, 10:45 PM
DSAPOLIS, Thanks for the link to 14and1. My proposal is for open entry and not
a handicap system. I hate handicaps. Anytime handicaps allow lessor players to beat better players the game isn't about ability. No handicap means no sand bagging and real results. Anyone playing in a handicapped game has two opponents and are challenged by their own skill. Not my choice to be fair. I understand that the handicap leagues allow a mixture of players that would never meet in other circumstances and good experience for learning. I just prefer the open system.

mike60 miscuing but happy

nAz
07-07-2008, 09:42 PM
Dave good analysis it seems to have helped me out. after watching the video, i went out and played for the first time in awhile and had a 41 ball run after the opening safety.
It did get sloppy @ times but stopping and taking my time after each shot to evaluate my options and also playing shots with minimal CB movement help get me back in line and continue the run.

It's a funny thing, i have read about and been told to do the things you recommend but it never really sunk in... maybe it will this time.

av84fun
07-09-2008, 12:38 AM
I hear what you are saying about handicapping but it has been around forever and not only in pool or in pool leagues. Golf, of course, is a major example.

But even very top roadie gamblers get and give weight all the time.

I agree that handicaps are abused but without them, there would be very little league play and the sport would decline in popularity even more than it already has. People are human beings and they don't enjoy losing all the time.

Regards,
Jim

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DSAPOLIS, Thanks for the link to 14and1. My proposal is for open entry and not
a handicap system. I hate handicaps. Anytime handicaps allow lessor players to beat better players the game isn't about ability. No handicap means no sand bagging and real results. Anyone playing in a handicapped game has two opponents and are challenged by their own skill. Not my choice to be fair. I understand that the handicap leagues allow a mixture of players that would never meet in other circumstances and good experience for learning. I just prefer the open system.

mike60 miscuing but happy </div></div>

Voodoo Daddy
07-11-2008, 01:19 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DSAPOLIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did an analysis of SpiderWebbComm's 39 ball run - it's very entertaining - and available to view on Google and Veoh -

Let me know what you think of it.

14.1 Analysis - 29 Minutes - Veoh (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v14404883kaxsKW8n)

14.1 Analysis - 29 Minutes - Google (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3837602630424633418&hl=en)

The Veoh version is better video quality

There are some problems with the video at the end of the run - not sure what happened there - plus you guys get here my raspy voice (as a result of my Parkinson's Disease - it comes and goes)

Thanks to Dave for being brave enough to allow me to post this up for everybody to watch and listen as I tear into his game apart -

Yes - this is the video with the cat! </div></div>

Only thing that would have made them better is me sitting next to you commentating!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

dg-in-centralpa
07-12-2008, 06:51 PM
Hey Voodoo, how you been? We've missed you at the Open.

DG

Voodoo Daddy
07-14-2008, 07:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dg-in-centralpa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Voodoo, how you been? We've missed you at the Open.

DG </div></div>

Been flyin WAY under the radar...I may show my face this year, stay tuned /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif