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pooltchr
07-02-2008, 04:54 PM
Anyone else hear this? Obama wants those who have succeeded at "the American Dream" to help others do the same. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the "American Dream" was to work hard and be responsible for your own success or failures.

He also wants middle and high school students to give 50 hours of "community service" and college students to give 100 hours. Where I come from, community service is what the criminals in our court system usually get after they have run up 3 or 4 pages of a rap sheet!

How is he different from any other hack politician? He just wants everyone else to give and give, and when that doesn't work, he will tax them, and spread it around as he sees fit.

Hope and Change? Absolutely! He hopes he can get elected and leave us all with nothing but a little spare change!

Steve

mike60
07-03-2008, 01:02 AM
Remember the Draft? Remember that the present Cheney administration has spent more money and enlarged the government payroll more than any past regime.
Steve you should know better than "How is he different from any other hack politician? He just wants everyone else to give and give, and when that doesn't work, he will tax them, and spread it around as he sees fit.". Really, the Congress makes the laws and spends the money collected. The President has no financial power other than saying yes or vetoing the plans of the Congress. The taxes aren't the problem. The problem is what is done with the money.
In more civilized countries there is free health care, highways that don't fall apart in a year or two, just to name two problems we can't seem to cure. When most
severe bankruptcy is the result of health care costs we are screwed.
As for community service for young people it will never be mandatory. No way in hell. Too much like the draft. We have volunteer services already.
Your ideas are simply nonsense. But at least you have ideas.

mike60 not fooled

pooltchr
07-03-2008, 04:29 AM
I agree that the past 8 years have been a financial nightmare. I just don't see that as a reason to support someone who has said they will tax and spend even more. If he really wanted change, and the change included CUTTING spending and waste, I would support him in a heartbeat!
Steve

nAz
07-03-2008, 07:56 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone else hear this? Obama wants those who have succeeded at "the American Dream" to help others do the same. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the "American Dream" was to work hard and be responsible for your own success or failures.

He also wants middle and high school students to give 50 hours of "community service" and college students to give 100 hours. Where I come from, community service is what the criminals in our court system usually get after they have run up 3 or 4 pages of a rap sheet!

How is he different from any other hack politician? He just wants everyone else to give and give, and when that doesn't work, he will tax them, and spread it around as he sees fit.

Hope and Change? Absolutely! He hopes he can get elected and leave us all with nothing but a little spare change!

Steve </div></div>


Steve i do not understand what is wrong with asking successful Americans like yourself to help other less successful Americans?
I don't mean with money, i mean with life experience and community service.
from what i read all he is asking is the same thing that the Judaic-Christian god talks about in the bible? same thing JFK ask us all for but that has been forgotten.

Asking young Americans to step up and help their fellow man should be a good thing... it can teach these young bucks character and give them a good grounding in what it means to be a good human being.

"He has put out a $3.5-billion national service plan that would double the size of the Peace Corps, recruit retired engineers and scientists to tutor students, and offer college students tuition aid in return for community service"

really what the hell is wrong with this?????
where is the compassionate conservative in you? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

pooltchr
07-03-2008, 07:26 PM
He also wants middle and high school students to perform 50 hours of community service every year. And if the schools don't set up a program, some of the federal funds to those districts would be witheld. This is NOT volunteer work, it is forced servitude!
How much will it cost to administer this program? Who will keep track of how many hours a student works at a non-profit or government agency? Will they turn in time sheets? How big will the agency be that has to track this for every school child in the country. And who will be responsible for getting those 13-15 year olds to their designated "volunteer" location? Parents? Most of them work. Schools? They are already having enough problems getting the kids to school. Will we run school buses to these "after hours" programs? Who will pay for the drivers? And who will foot the bill for all the extra gas?
This is nothing more than another way of growing the government more and more.

Here's a better idea. Why not require everyone receiving a welfare check to perform 2 hours of service a week in exchange for their welfare check? That would be a very nice hourly rate of pay!

We do not need more government, and we do not need children being forced to work for the government. I thought we abolished slavery years ago!

I'm all for volunteering, I do it myself. I pick my own cause and do it because I WANT to, not because some South Chicago Hack Politician tries to make me do it! Volunteer means just that...doing it of one's own free will.

Steve

mike60
07-03-2008, 07:39 PM
find or borrow a clue. The President has no right to make anyone serve against their will. All of the points you attempt to pass off as fact are not true. He may suggest anything he likes but the Congress must enact the laws to make it so. As usual a right wing gas bag blathering on without fact or reason. In many states there is a
program called "work fare" where to receive welfare you must work for it. The moron
Bush and his handler Cheney have blown up the government payroll beyond any past administration.
Look Steve, you don't like Obama, that's your choice but lying about his powers as
the next President won't change the fact you're full of shit.

mike60 old enough&tough enough

pooltchr
07-04-2008, 06:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look Steve, you don't like Obama, that's your choice but lying about his powers as
the next President won't change the fact you're full of shit.

mike60 old enough&tough enough </div></div>

I am quite aware of what powers the POUS does and doesn't have. I'm just commenting on what he said in his speech. His agenda is to grow the government even more than the present administration has done. I don't like big government. I would have loved to see a candidate who had the nads to say he would cut back on the size of government, but we sure didn't get that one.
If you think that means I'm full of $hit, good for you. I don't really care what you think. You, sir, can BITE ME!
Steve

mike60
07-04-2008, 02:25 PM
Steve,
Thanks for the offer but no thanks. I am too hot headed and i ask your indulgence
and i will stop insulting you for your opinions.

mike60

eg8r
07-05-2008, 01:45 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">find or borrow a clue. The President has no right to make anyone serve against their will. All of the points you attempt to pass off as fact are not true. He may suggest anything he likes but the Congress must enact the laws to make it so. ... that's your choice but lying about his powers as
the next President won't change the fact you're full of shit.
</div></div>I thought giving you the benefit of the doubt was a good idea, instead you have shown us you are an idiot. You like to jump on people full steam so I guess you are yet another gayle wannabe. Take a second and go back and read Steve's post and let us know where he said that as President, Obama would be able to force this into law? Quit acting like an idiot and just read what is being posted. It does not take an idiot (I am guessing by your post above you are below this) to understand that the things Obama is talking about now are things he would like to put on his agenda during his term which means presenting ideas to Congress. Now about asking you to "find or borrow clue", I am not too sure you would no where to start.

eg8r

mike60
07-05-2008, 02:43 PM
Oh thank you i am now imbued with the light of reason. Don't bother worrying about my idiocy i've got it covered.
"Steve,
Thanks for the offer but no thanks. I am too hot headed and i ask your indulgence
and i will stop insulting you for your opinions."

Now pertaining to you etwit, fuck off.

Not very civil i admit but germane and to the point.
Look it up dimwit.
mike60

Gayle in MD
07-11-2008, 11:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hope and Change? Absolutely! He hopes he can get elected and leave us all with nothing but a little spare change!

Steve
</div></div>

Bush has already done that. We are not only left with nothing but a little spare change, but also burried us and our children in debt.

How is Mccain different from any other hack politician? Interesting, you don't ask youself THAT question.

McCain has flip flopped on everything, except this militarily unwinnable war, which is running this country into the ground, and assisting our enemies.

He knows nothing about economics, and his main economic advisor, (whose wife was on the board of Enron when they stole from their employees, among others)is telling us that he thinks that Americans who are paying out five dollars a gallon, and watching their homes lose values greater than anything we've seen in forty years, that the recession is a figment of thier imagination.

He is asked how he feels about health insurance companies being required to fill prescriptions for Viagra, but not for birth control pills, and he cannot even come up with his own opinion on the subject, when he voted against any provisions for birth control, himself! No opinion? Gotta check on the pulse of the country before he can answer? that was the most revealing moment in this entire campaign!

He voted against giving our Veterans more assistance, and he voted against giving our active troops a fair shot at surviving this fiasco in Iraq.

Almost every single major issue that he has voted on, he has flip flopped on completely, including Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy, abortion, Iraq, supporting our troops with better provisions, you name it!

No problem with you? Dotell us how McCain is more honest, or has shown more ability to set this country on a path other than the dire direction Bush has us on now!

Do you care about anything, other than a tax break?

sack316
07-11-2008, 12:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
McCain has flip flopped on everything, except this militarily unwinnable war, which is running this country into the ground, and assisting our enemies.

</div></div>

And the more Obama talks, the more he begins to sound the same as McCain. One day he's saying 16 months, the next he's saying he'll have to talk to the leaders on the ground. Then he gets called out on that and accused of flip flopping, and goes on to say his stance never changed. (????).

Here's an idea for both candidates... DO talk to the leaders on the ground.... RIGHT NOW! Take the chance and skip a week from campaigning in Armpit, Whatever State... or wherever you are pandering that day for group x's vote... go to Iraq, have your chat and get your info first hand. Come back and make a stance, a clear and realistic stance. Not a dream stance, not an "I hope" stance, not an "if then" statement... but pretend you are president now, get your information, and tell me what you would do at this moment.

of course I may even flip flop myself, given the statements from Iraqi leaders lately. I'm about to the point of saying, "OK, you don't want us there without a definite timetable... we don't have one as of yet, so you kids have fun. Don't call us, we'll call you".

Sack

Deeman3
07-11-2008, 12:27 PM
Sack,

As usual, you and I are near the same page. Of course, we would have to go back after the blood flow slowed a bit and hook up the oil wagon. If the administrations said, "O.K. Bye-bye", The entire Iraqi government would be charging the planes trying to get on board.

Malalki would be hung in 48 hours and Iran would be pouring across the borders in a matter of hours. As I say, if the Iranians want nukes so bad, lob a couple to them.

McCain is not good, Barack is terrible but at least Hillary is out of the race, unless Obama let's her slither back in. Did you see them begging for them to pay her bills? Run up in slashing him!

There is an envolop under you seat right now. Send Hillary a dime.

sack316
07-11-2008, 12:41 PM
yeah really, who does she think she is--- Starbucks? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

I think we'll be back over there also, regardless of who what when where or why we get out now or in the near future. Unless we decide to just wash our hands entirely of the middle east... which would be about as likely as Gayle having a W sticker on her car /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sack

Gayle in MD
07-11-2008, 01:29 PM
Brace yourselves, but I agree with just about everything you and Deeman have said.

I don't like either candidate, nor do I think either of them are fit to run this country. I think they're both politicians, and that they will both err on the side of oil supply, however, I think that Iraq will be owned by Iran regardless of anything that we do, and the Bush has put us into a trick bag over there than we can no longer afford to fight our way out of.

Here we are 54 trillion dollars in foreign and financial institutional debt, our own country has a degraded infrastructure, we're in a deepening recession, which has been denied for far too long, and McCain's economic advisor thinks its all in our heads!????

I don't like either of them, and I also don't think anyone can undo the mess Bush has made in the Middle East, and I just hope all those who supported Bush are loving these five dollar a gallon gas prices, because I surely predicted it right here, many years ago!

Our major problems are definitely what the hell do we do with Iraq, but the bad news is that Iraq is only the tip of the iceburg, now, and you can thank George Bush for that.

As I said, I don't like Obama, or McCain, but one of them is plumb crazy, and I sure as hell don't think the world needs another mentally ill dictator, who states that he doesn't know anything about economics, and thinks that we should continue a failed policy in Iraq that is runing us into the poor house, just as bin Laden wished and hoped we would be foolish enough to do trying to win wars in those unforgiving sands, with a broken army, disillusioned American population, and degraded equipment! Sound familiar? Only Russia had its oil to fall back on.

Gayle in Md.

I do have a W. on my car, but it has an F. in front of it! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

sack316
07-11-2008, 01:49 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I do have a W. on my car, but it has an F. in front of it! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif </div></div>

That does not surprise me. Also it nearly made my drink come out of my nose /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sack

pooltchr
07-11-2008, 06:56 PM
I think the majority of us on this board agree on one thing...we have possibly the two worst candidates for president that this country has ever been forced to choose from. I think it's just a matter of which one stinks the most. (Or the least) I can't defend McCain as he is nothing more than a Dem in a Rep jersey. Obama is a socialist in a Dem jersey. Neither is what they say they are. You have to read between the lines and try to figure out who they really are. I just strongly suspect that we will all be holding our collective noses when it comes time to cast a vote in November.
Steve

mike60
07-11-2008, 08:33 PM
Steve, There has to be change to restore our Nation and our standing in the world.
Obama is the only choice that excludes the continuation of Cheney-Bush. That alone is will bring millions of voters to his side come November. Any candidate must be held to a higher standard than the horror show of the last seven plus years.

mike60

LWW
07-12-2008, 05:48 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the majority of us on this board agree on one thing...we have possibly the two worst candidates for president that this country has ever been forced to choose from. I think it's just a matter of which one stinks the most. (Or the least) I can't defend McCain as he is nothing more than a Dem in a Rep jersey. Obama is a socialist in a Dem jersey. Neither is what they say they are. You have to read between the lines and try to figure out who they really are. I just strongly suspect that we will all be holding our collective noses when it comes time to cast a vote in November.
Steve </div></div>
I disagree ... Bush - Gore and Nixon - McGovern were much worse sets of choices, but I agree these are far from the best.

LWW

LWW
07-12-2008, 05:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve, There has to be change to restore our Nation and our standing in the world.
Obama is the only choice that excludes the continuation of Cheney-Bush. That alone is will bring millions of voters to his side come November. Any candidate must be held to a higher standard than the horror show of the last seven plus years.

mike60 </div></div>
Why do you support Obama sir ... especially since he will continue the same policies in Iraq, except with a resolve more likely to be reminiscent of LBJ.

LWW

mike60
07-12-2008, 12:16 PM
LWW, Actually i prefer Chuck Hagel.

mike60

eg8r
07-14-2008, 09:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How is Mccain different from any other hack politician? Interesting, you don't ask youself THAT question.
</div></div>I don't think he is any different and frankly I am embarassed that McCain is the best the Reps could put up for election.

eg8r

eg8r
07-14-2008, 09:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike60getting dumber by the minute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now pertaining to you etwit, f%&* off.</div></div> When will you grow up?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
07-14-2008, 10:06 AM
Exactly! Much as I dislike Obama, and particularly his wife, we MUST get Republicans out of the White House!

They are both politicians.

One is cool and calm, made his own way in life, against some pretty heavy odds, and has proven himself to be extremely intelligent, and was against the illogical, un-necessary, disasterous invasion of Iraq (which had no WMD's) and thought we should focus on bin Laden, Afghanistan, Pakistan, which we KNOW has nukes, the volital region which was placed on the back burner by the Iraq invasion, and which is the true center of the terrorists.

The other has anger issues. A well documented VERY bad temper. Received special consideration and opportunity from family ties early on in his life. Was in the bottom of his class at Annapolis. Has a history of running around on his invalid wife, who stood beside him through thick and thin, and whom he dumped for the daughter of a rich man with political connections, who could aid his political career. Whose campaign is being run by former lobbyists with questionable interests in the Middle East, and supported the worst foreign policy disaster in American history.

It's a simple choice for me.

I was talking with a friend of mine last week, who worked in the Senate Office Building for thirty years. He was telling me about how McCain, when he first arrived on the Hill, was in the Military Liason Office, which was right across the hall from my friend's Senate Woodworking Shop, where he was in charge of all the carpetry and woodworking. He said that McCain used to come into their office every morning to get water for the coffee maker, and would shoot the **** with the guys who worked in there, and that as soon as McCain was elected Senator, when they would pass him in the halls, he would not speak to, or acknowledge any of them anymore. When they had to do work in his office, he treated them like dirt under his feet.

I've heard worse about McCain from other guys I've known from childhood, in other Senate offices, from the air conditioning shop, to many aides and even other Senators, themselves, about his nasty treatment of people in general, his temper, and his arrogance.

If he can't even respond spontaneously about his vote against giving women coverage for birth control, but giving men coverage for Viagra, without drawing a blank, over something he actually voted on, something so basic, I don't find him at all believable.


He is not presidential material. Knows nothing about economics, according to his own assessment of himself, and is for torture, and for continuing to run this country into further debt in this fiasco in Iraq, 50 million dollars an hour!

That's enough for me.

Gayle in Md.

LWW
07-14-2008, 11:05 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike60getting dumber by the minute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now pertaining to you etwit, f%&* off.</div></div> When will you grow up?

eg8r </div></div>
Not much chance of that.

LWW