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MAC
07-17-2008, 02:34 PM
While reading some other posts in the playability for price thread, I found my self wondering.... What are the benefits and or cons of different size shafts. I currently use a 13mm shaft. I have considered switching to a 12mm but I dont know why I would be changing???? Aside from the obvious of just being smaller what are some benefits?

Bambu
07-17-2008, 04:47 PM
I believe you will get a little less deflection from a 12mm as opposed to a 13mm. Also in general, you can get a bit more spin out of a thinner shaft. To me, making a switch like that is all just preference.

mike60
07-17-2008, 06:20 PM
Bambu, I remember the late Doc Frye, cue maker for players such as Steve the Miz, telling me to use a 14mm tip for 14.1. My cue now has 12.4mm.

mike60

JWasson
07-17-2008, 07:20 PM
The way I understand it, you get more deflection with the thinner shafts and tips as the shaft will have more flex. More deflection usually means you will be using more English with the same hit on the cue. The huge marketing trend right now is for low deflection shafts, but for many players, I think their style dictates a higher deflection shaft. I think it might be quite possible that a player fairly new to the sport may see a benefit from a low deflection shaft, but I also think (just my opinion) that most of us will likely shoot better with what we are familiar with. I normally carry two 13mm shafts along with a 12mm shaft in my case. One of the 13mm shafts is my breaking shaft and the other my general playing shaft. I have the 12mm shaft because I can switch shafts if I need to put a lot of English on the cue for certain shots such as a slight curve around another ball or because the shot dictates it. We all have styles and trick shots that we learn to do that we may not be able to duplicate with different size shafts.
for years I played with a 12mm shaft and I played some great games too, but I was not consistent. When I was on my game, I could do no wrong but when I was off my game, I could do nothing right. When I started shooting the larger and more or less standard 13mm, my consistency was and is much better. That tells me that I should probably stick with the 13mm shafts/tips but as I mentioned above, I learned some neat tricks that I can't duplicate with the 13mm shafts so I have 12mm shaft I can still use for that purpose.

zombiemodder
07-17-2008, 07:42 PM
I feel that the smaller shaft is less accurate than the larger. I recently bought a name brand stick with one of the best shafts out there right now that had a 12.75mm tip and did not get enough consistentcy i tried a shaft with a 13mm and now i am much more consistent in my shot making. This is probibly more of a preference thing than anything else but hey whatever works.

Bambu
07-18-2008, 08:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bambu, I remember the late Doc Frye, cue maker for players such as Steve the Miz, telling me to use a 14mm tip for 14.1. My cue now has 12.4mm.

mike60</div></div>

I think thats good advice, Mike. I know another great straight pool player who swears by his 14mm, and is condidering a custom 15mm. Only one manufacturer I found even makes tips that wide, but I guess some people do use them. In general, straight pool features more center ball, and 9 ball more english. I am more of a 9 baller, so I like the 11.75 on my predator Z2. Its taken a bit longer than I expected to get used to it, but I like it.

1Time
07-19-2008, 04:01 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> While reading some other posts in the playability for price thread, I found my self wondering.... What are the benefits and or cons of different size shafts. I currently use a 13mm shaft. I have considered switching to a 12mm but I dont know why I would be changing???? Aside from the obvious of just being smaller what are some benefits? </div></div>
Some Pros and Cons of a Smaller Diameter Shaft:

Pro: flexes more
Con: flexes more

Pro: more deflection
Con: more deflection

Pro: may change the balance of the cue toward the butt
Con: may change the balance of the cue toward the butt

Pro: shoots better for you
Con: shoots worse for you

A 13mm to 12mm change is fairly drastic, especially if you have not shot with a 12mm shaft before. Although some would find the change beneficial, I'm guessing at least 90% would not. 12.5mm to 13mm is far more common.

I have one question to answer when considering a change to the diameter of a shaft. Will it help me shoot better? And the best way to determine this is first go shoot with the shaft or cue that I may change to.

SpiderMan
07-21-2008, 10:22 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWasson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The way I understand it, you get more deflection with the thinner shafts and tips as the shaft will have more flex. More deflection usually means you will be using more English with the same hit on the cue. The huge marketing trend right now is for low deflection shafts, but for many players, I think their style dictates a higher deflection shaft. I think it might be quite possible that a player fairly new to the sport may see a benefit from a low deflection shaft, but I also think (just my opinion) that most of us will likely shoot better with what we are familiar with. I normally carry two 13mm shafts along with a 12mm shaft in my case. One of the 13mm shafts is my breaking shaft and the other my general playing shaft. I have the 12mm shaft because I can switch shafts if I need to put a lot of English on the cue for certain shots such as a slight curve around another ball or because the shot dictates it. We all have styles and trick shots that we learn to do that we may not be able to duplicate with different size shafts.
for years I played with a 12mm shaft and I played some great games too, but I was not consistent. When I was on my game, I could do no wrong but when I was off my game, I could do nothing right. When I started shooting the larger and more or less standard 13mm, my consistency was and is much better. That tells me that I should probably stick with the 13mm shafts/tips but as I mentioned above, I learned some neat tricks that I can't duplicate with the 13mm shafts so I have 12mm shaft I can still use for that purpose. </div></div>

I think you're confusing shaft deflection with cue-ball deflection. The "low-deflection" shafts you speak of are actually designed to deflect the cueball less. To accomplish this, the shaft itself must deflect more.

When you strike the CB off-center to get sidespin, the CB leaves the tip traveling slightly off-line from a path parallel to the stick. For example, left english results in some cueball deflection to the right, which requires aiming compensation. The lower this cueball deflection, the less aim compensation is required.

"Low-deflection" cues are designed so that the end of the shaft deflects more, so that the cueball deflects less. In other words, when you apply left english, the shaft deflects MORE to the left so that the cueball will be deflected LESS to the right. This is accomplished by making the end of the shaft lighter, usually by having a portion of it hollow or filled with a material less dense than wood. This is the approach used by both Predator and OB-1, and probably others.

Making the shaft substantially smaller in diameter will have the same effect. Smaller is lighter, so the shaft deflects more and the cueball deflects less. That's what we mean by a "low-deflection" shaft - low cueball deflection.

SpiderMan

JWasson
07-21-2008, 10:36 AM
Thanks! That's the best explanation I've had so far. Thank you for that.

1Time
07-21-2008, 03:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SpiderMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you're confusing shaft deflection with cue-ball deflection. The "low-deflection" shafts you speak of are actually designed to deflect the cueball less. To accomplish this, the shaft itself must deflect more.

When you strike the CB off-center to get sidespin, the CB leaves the tip traveling slightly off-line from a path parallel to the stick. For example, left english results in some cueball deflection to the right, which requires aiming compensation. The lower this cueball deflection, the less aim compensation is required.

"Low-deflection" cues are designed so that the end of the shaft deflects more, so that the cueball deflects less. In other words, when you apply left english, the shaft deflects MORE to the left so that the cueball will be deflected LESS to the right. This is accomplished by making the end of the shaft lighter, usually by having a portion of it hollow or filled with a material less dense than wood. This is the approach used by both Predator and OB-1, and probably others.

Making the shaft substantially smaller in diameter will have the same effect. Smaller is lighter, so the shaft deflects more and the cueball deflects less. That's what we mean by a "low-deflection" shaft - low cueball deflection.

SpiderMan </div></div>
Well this shows how little I knew about deflection. I had no prior knowledge of this as explained by SpiderMan.

So which is better - a lower deflection shaft or a higher deflection shaft? It seems this would be a matter of personal preference. Or, is everyone destined to shoot better with a lower deflection shaft?

SpiderMan
07-21-2008, 06:06 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SpiderMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you're confusing shaft deflection with cue-ball deflection. The "low-deflection" shafts you speak of are actually designed to deflect the cueball less. To accomplish this, the shaft itself must deflect more.

When you strike the CB off-center to get sidespin, the CB leaves the tip traveling slightly off-line from a path parallel to the stick. For example, left english results in some cueball deflection to the right, which requires aiming compensation. The lower this cueball deflection, the less aim compensation is required.

"Low-deflection" cues are designed so that the end of the shaft deflects more, so that the cueball deflects less. In other words, when you apply left english, the shaft deflects MORE to the left so that the cueball will be deflected LESS to the right. This is accomplished by making the end of the shaft lighter, usually by having a portion of it hollow or filled with a material less dense than wood. This is the approach used by both Predator and OB-1, and probably others.

Making the shaft substantially smaller in diameter will have the same effect. Smaller is lighter, so the shaft deflects more and the cueball deflects less. That's what we mean by a "low-deflection" shaft - low cueball deflection.

SpiderMan </div></div>
Well this shows how little I knew about deflection. I had no prior knowledge of this as explained by SpiderMan.

So which is better - a lower deflection shaft or a higher deflection shaft? It seems this would be a matter of personal preference. Or, is everyone destined to shoot better with a lower deflection shaft? </div></div>

I'd say you're right, a lot of it is personal preference.

Whether a low-squirt shaft (I prefer that terminology because low-deflection seems to lead to confusion regarding what is actually deflecting less) like the Predator helps your game probably depends a lot on style of play and experience. Obviously experienced players don't have a problem compensating for cueball squirt with a conventional shaft - otherwise all the pros would have jumped into the Predator camp years ago.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, there is also an inherent advantage to a shaft that produces "just the right amount" of CB squirt. If you're familiar with back-hand english and finding the pivot point for optimum compensation, imagine a shaft whose squirt characteristics place the pivot point at your normal bridge length. In this case, if you line up your shot correctly, your aim will tend to remain true even if you have a slightly flawed stroke and hit the CB off-center. None of the low-squirt shafts will work in this manner, because their pivot points tend to be too far back on the shaft.

As an aside, few of the squirt discussions I've read stress the dependence on the cueball. Squirt is an interaction of the CB and the shaft for off-center hits. It's actually the RELATIVE masses of the shaft and CB that determines squirt. In other words, making the cueball heavier has the same effect as making the shaft lighter. A heavier CB will squirt less, because this has the same effect as lightening the shaft. Likewise, a lighter cueball will squirt more.

If you use back-hand english to compensate your aim, you have to remember to shorten your pivot for lighter balls, and lengthen it for heavier balls.

Obviously a low-squirt ("low-deflection") shaft can make these errors less significant, or perhaps even negligible for the player who mainly uses centerball, follow, and draw. I suppose a low-squirt shaft also makes learning english easier for a beginner, because the CB will still go "almost" in the direction the stick is pointing. But the downside is that if the shooter can't stroke in a straight line, the aim won't auto-correct as it might with a conventional-squirt shaft.

Personally, I play with a regular shaft. I've gotten used to the cue and it's squirt characteristics. It's pivot is very close to my natural bridge, so I can use BHE as a cross-check for my compensation, should I care to so so.

SpiderMan