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skin
08-06-2008, 07:52 PM
I have been playing with a 13 mm shaft and it has performed absolutely awfully for me on any hit off dead- center cb. About its only virtue is on long straight shots with center cb as far as I can tell, even with a dime-sized tip.

The reason I bring this up is that I have a hard time believing the hype that 13 mm is an all-purpose best diameter or that anything can be done with it consistently except on the break (and long shots as I said).

Yet, it is standard shaft size on most shafts sold with butts nowadays. What gives? The thing is a tree trunk.

BillyJack
08-06-2008, 08:14 PM
I guess it all depends on what you mean by "performed absolutely awfully". I have shafts from 12.3 thru 13.25. For me, skinny is better for maximum english, fatter is more forgiving for long centerball shots. If I could have only one shaft, I'd probably pick a 12.75 with about 8 in. of pro taper. Until then, my 13 earns the most table time based on best all-around performance.
Bill

skin
08-06-2008, 08:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BillyJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess it all depends on what you mean by "performed absolutely awfully". I have shafts from 12.3 thru 13.25. For me, skinny is better for maximum english, fatter is more forgiving for long centerball shots. If I could have only one shaft, I'd probably pick a 12.75 with about 8 in. of pro taper. Until then, my 13 earns the most table time based on best all-around performance.
Bill </div></div>

What I mean is that I do not get enough feel and cb action with the 13 mm tip. Not with low nor high nor on either side. It may be me individually, but the thing is like looking over a stump to see the hit on the cb. Plus, it hits with a big thump on the cb instead of with sweetness. Aggravating.

I am going back to a 12.5 and may go down even further from there to a 12.

zombiemodder
08-06-2008, 08:33 PM
I've found that the 13mm is the best size for me. But all that matters is what works for you, try some different sizes and you'll find one hat fits you best.

1Time
08-07-2008, 05:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been playing with a 13 mm shaft and it has performed absolutely awfully for me on any hit off dead- center cb. About its only virtue is on long straight shots with center cb as far as I can tell, even with a dime-sized tip.

The reason I bring this up is that I have a hard time believing the hype that 13 mm is an all-purpose best diameter or that anything can be done with it consistently except on the break (and long shots as I said).

Yet, it is standard shaft size on most shafts sold with butts nowadays. What gives? The thing is a tree trunk. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I mean is that I do not get enough feel and cb action with the 13 mm tip. Not with low nor high nor on either side. It may be me individually, but the thing is like looking over a stump to see the hit on the cb. Plus, it hits with a big thump on the cb instead of with sweetness. Aggravating.

I am going back to a 12.5 and may go down even further from there to a 12. </div></div>

The diameter of the shaft alone does not determine how a shaft / cue will hit for you. You could just as well pick up a shaft / cue with a 13mm diameter at the ferrule that plays great for you.

That said, I prefer a slightly smaller diameter at the ferrule than 13mm because I sight better that way. I sanded the ferrule on my Blaze playing cue so it's about about 12.5 at the tip and then tapers wider, but the shaft is stock, which is a European taper.

When you make the change to a smaller diameter, I suggest you keep in mind that a smaller diameter shaft alone may not give you the kind of hit and play you want.

I bought a cue recently with a 13mm European taper that was nothing more than a tree trunk. I had the shaft re-tapered which lightened it by 0.5 ounces, and transformation was amazing, but still measured 13mm at the ferrule.

Some cues / shafts just hit and play better than others. Getting one in the diameter you want that plays well for you can be pretty sweet, but tough to come by.

Rich R.
08-07-2008, 06:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I mean is that I do not get enough feel and cb action with the 13 mm tip. Not with low nor high nor on either side. It may be me individually, but the thing is like looking over a stump to see the hit on the cb. Plus, it hits with a big thump on the cb instead of with sweetness. Aggravating.

I am going back to a 12.5 and may go down even further from there to a 12. </div></div>
The amount of action you get depends a lot more on your stroke than the shaft of your cue.

I use 13 mm shafts on all of my cues and I have no problem at all with the cues. Any problems I have are self inflicted. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

JayBaltimore
08-07-2008, 06:39 AM
smaller mm, more action, less accurate. 13mm not as much action, but really depends on your stoke as rich has said. i switch back and forth between a 12.7 and a 13. i'm more accurate with the 13 but have great action on the 12.7.

BillyJack
08-07-2008, 07:03 AM
Quote "What I mean is that I do not get enough feel and cb action with the 13 mm tip. Not with low nor high nor on either side. It may be me individually, but the thing is like looking over a stump to see the hit on the cb. Plus, it hits with a big thump on the cb instead of with sweetness. Aggravating.I am going back to a 12.5 and may go down even further from there to a 12" [/quote]

If that's what you're thinking, a change is definitely in order. 1/2 mm. is less than .020, almost insignificant. But if our mental perception is a lot more significant, it will effect our game. I'd look for another shaft, so that you could always have the option of switching back.
Bill

MAC
08-07-2008, 07:58 AM
I personally like my 13mm I find myself doing things accidentally with a 12mm shaft like drawing the cueball a foot too far haha. OOPS!

JoeW
08-07-2008, 08:23 AM
I played snooker and pool for many years and learned to like a 10mm. Now I play with an 11.75 Z shaft. For me the loss of control is too much with a 13 mm.

Try a snooker cue for a while and see what you think. It has definite limitations as it is not of much use for power shots but you may find, as I do, that the ability to get precise control over one's english with less offset is worth the trade off. Then you can move to a slighlty thicker shaft.

The snooker cue will also make you play with more precision and less power. It depends on what you are looking for in a cue. I like the idea that the CB goes wherre I hit it with the smaller cue though it is less forgiving of error. This only means that I need to have sound fundamentals.

In my thinking pool is really about position play and that is what needs to be emphasized.

Bambu
08-07-2008, 10:10 AM
I like the 11.75 z shaft too, and it didnt take long to get used to shooting with it. The only problem I have with the z2, is its very easy to become dependent on it. If I go back to my scruggs or schon, they feel huge and deflect much more. Getting used to that all over again didnt come as easily, and was harder than I expected. And I played with those other 13mm cues for over 25 years, the z2 only a couple of months. But it felt like hitting 80 mph fastballs one day, then switching to high arc softball the next.

JoeW
08-07-2008, 12:00 PM
I agree Bambu. The Z is addictive. I have some excellent shafts that I simply do not like to use anymore because they are too bulky. Seems like such a waste at times.

Bambu
08-08-2008, 06:55 AM
It does seem like a waste, Joe. I used to rotate all my cues now and then, and without ever needing too much adjustment. Now though, I dont think I will be using the rest of my cues much anymore. Not alot of reason for me to collect additional cues either, though I want to try the OB-1 shaft.

JWasson
08-23-2008, 07:41 PM
I'm sorry, but I have never fell into the 13mm crowd. I've been shooting pool for over forty years. I seem to remember when you could look through house cues at most locations where I played and most tips were smaller than 13mm. Most shooters forty or more years ago didn't use fat shafts if memory serves me. I learned to shoot with much smaller tips than 13mm and still prefer to use smaller tips. I have two 13mm shafts for my McDermott but also have a 12mm and even an 11mm shaft for it as well. I seldom use a 13mm except to break sometimes if I don't bring my J/B cue. I think the 13mm shafts might be better for many novice shooters who may have trouble hitting the cue ball where they need to. 13mm tips seem more forgiving but limit you to what you can accomplish if you are a seasoned shooter. There you have it, my opinion on why the industry has crammed the fat 13mm shafts down our throats.

Bambu
08-24-2008, 09:47 AM
Even though I agree with you, I have a good friend who prefers a fatter shaft, 14 mm and is considering a 15. I had trouble just finding tips for him. And he's no slouch, 200 ball runner. What I'm trying to say is, there is no "better" way to go. Its all strictly personal preference, like choosing a baseball bat. I know we all know that, just re-stating in general terms.

Sid_Vicious
08-24-2008, 11:43 AM
IMO you'll find the wall sticks shaft diameter the most pleasing, even though I do have 314's and OB1 shafts. It all really comes down to your talent/stroke, and the elaborate shafts are possibly better, only in the fact that you should ONLY play with them once you get one, and stop stick-swapping. In the end though, the game is personally fun, and using all of my cues is FUN!, so it all depends on your reason, the one reason of playing.

I do have to favor the OB1, built by Royce to whatever shaft dimensions you like to play with. The ferrule design has as much to do with the action, unless you decide to play with whippy shafts for extreme spin. Whippy was never my style, and the OB1 with a more solid shaft has all the action I'll ever want. jm2c...sid

Bambu
08-24-2008, 08:51 PM
Sid, I hear you on the stick swapping. Thats the hardest part about making the switch, kissing the old cues goodbye. Well, they look nice on the wall anyway. You really make me want to buy an ob-1. Soon enough I will break down and get one.