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gstump
08-07-2008, 02:07 AM
I've only been playing about a month, but I've been getting good hours so I sprung for a cue. A friend of mine recommended fury cues, as getting a nice bang for the buck, fairly cheap for someone just starting to play and doesn't want to spend a lot of money. Anyway the point is I started playing with it, and though I can usually string at least 4 or 5 shots together with a house cue, now all of a sudden all my shots are off just enough so they bounce out. It's same weight I always play with, but its about an inch longer. Is this all that's causing my game to be off? Are house cue's usually weighted differently or have harder or softer tips? Anyone here play with a fury? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

pooltchr
08-07-2008, 04:32 AM
I have played with a Fury RP for about 5 or 6 years now. I have been extremely happy with it, and that is after owning several other cues including Meucci, Predator, and Lucasi.

Any time you change cues, you must adjust to the way it performs. There are subtle differences in all cues, and the more you use the same cue, the more you will adjust to it.

Steve

1Time
08-07-2008, 05:42 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any time you change cues, you must adjust to the way it performs. There are subtle differences in all cues, and the more you use the same cue, the more you will adjust to it.</div></div>
It's true that cues don't all shoot the same, and adjustments are necessary. With some cues the adjustments may be minor, but with other cues it may seem impossible or not worth the trouble.

What you want is a cue that shoots more like the cues you have used in the past. And for you that's apparently not that particular Fury cue. Your buddy gave you bad advice recommending a Fury cue, and I'm sure Fury cues are quality cues. Your buddy simply had no possible way of knowing if you would shoot well with that particular Fury cue. Good advice, however, would have been to advise you to shoot with different cues until you find one that you shoot well with and then buy it.

DeadCrab
08-07-2008, 06:51 AM
House cues can vary in quality, but usually are not as good as basic sticks such as Fury, Players, ect.

There are a couple of things you can look at to make sure you are interfacing well with your new cue.

1. Find the cues balance point, where you can balance it on 1-2 fingers. This is usually about 19" up from the butt end of the cue, but can vary a lot.
When doing a normal stroke, your grip hand should be behind this balance point. How far behind depends on your bridge length. For most people, the grip will be 6-12 inches behind the balance point.

2. Find your natural (bridge hand-back hand) distance. Take a tape measure, put the free end in your bridge hand (pinch between thumb and forefinger) and the other end in your back hand. Go into your comfortable stance on a table, stretching the tape measure out. Make sure your back forearm is perpendicular to the ground. This is the position you want when you strike the cueball. Read the tape measure. This is the front-back hand distance. I'm 5-10, and mine is about 38-39".

3. What is your comfortable bridge distance? This is the distance from where the cue touches your bridge to the edge of the cueball. This varies a lot and is highly individual. Some are as short as 6" or as long as 14". For a beginner, 9" might be about right.

4. Add it all up: Bridge distance + (front-back hand) distance = position of back hand. This is, of course, measured from the cue tip. For me, this is 12" + 39" = 51". So my backhand is about 7" from the butt of a 58" cue. This can vary a lot. Jeanette Lee is usually way back on her cue, Jimmy Reid can be way forward.

Now that you know where your hands should be, it is time to determine if your cue fits you. Put a gummed reinforcement (those white donut stickers) at your bridge and backhand points, so you know that your hand position is correct. Shoot some comfortable shots. Does the cue feel right? Is it butt heavy? Is the shaft staying on your bridge? If not, try some other cues until you find one that fits you.

pooltchr
08-07-2008, 07:09 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DeadCrab</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

1. Find the cues balance point, where you can balance it on 1-2 fingers. This is usually about 19" up from the butt end of the cue, but can vary a lot.
When doing a normal stroke, your grip hand should be behind this balance point. How far behind depends on your bridge length. For most people, the grip will be 6-12 inches behind the balance point.

2. Find your natural (bridge hand-back hand) distance. Take a tape measure, put the free end in your bridge hand (pinch between thumb and forefinger) and the other end in your back hand. Go into your comfortable stance on a table, stretching the tape measure out. Make sure your back forearm is perpendicular to the ground. This is the position you want when you strike the cueball. Read the tape measure. This is the front-back hand distance. I'm 5-10, and mine is about 38-39".

3. What is your comfortable bridge distance? This is the distance from where the cue touches your bridge to the edge of the cueball. This varies a lot and is highly individual. Some are as short as 6" or as long as 14". For a beginner, 9" might be about right.

4. Add it all up: Bridge distance + (front-back hand) distance = position of back hand. This is, of course, measured from the cue tip. For me, this is 12" + 39" = 51". So my backhand is about 7" from the butt of a 58" cue. This can vary a lot. Jeanette Lee is usually way back on her cue, Jimmy Reid can be way forward.

Now that you know where your hands should be, it is time to determine if your cue fits you. Put a gummed reinforcement (those white donut stickers) at your bridge and backhand points, so you know that your hand position is correct. Shoot some comfortable shots. Does the cue feel right? Is it butt heavy? Is the shaft staying on your bridge? If not, try some other cues until you find one that fits you.

</div></div>

Damn that's a lot to remember. How about if you just get into shooting position, get the tip near the cue ball, and have your forearm at a 90 degree angle to the cue. The balance point of the cue has next to nothing to do with how or where you grip the cue. Body style, arm length, height, bridge distance are far more important.

I'm not saying you are wrong, just thinking backward. Get the proper fundamentals for your stroke, and you will know immediately if a cue feels good in your hands. Trying to adjust your fundamentals to the cue will just drive you nuts.

Steve

DeadCrab
08-07-2008, 07:51 PM
I was trying to convey that the cue should fit your body, not vice-versa, and that your natural hand positions on the cue and your bridge length are critical in determining the fit of a cue.

Someone who is 6'6" tall and has a long bridge will need to get a longer cue than 58". Someone 4'11" with a short bridge will probable need something shorter. Since he is having trouble with a new cue it might pay to measure his personal hand positions so he can determine if the current cue, or a new cue, is likely to match his body.

gstump
08-08-2008, 02:05 AM
Thanks for all the advice, and I'm thinking I might need a longer cue, being 6'5". It's wierd to think because as I said the house cue was shorter. Could it be adjusting to the taper? I went out for a few hours and shots I took with an open bridge were a more off. Maybe it's raising up and putting on excess top english? I also got an opportunity to shoot around with a Mcdermott, which was longer still, and I was hitting my bank shots alot better. pooltchr- fury vs. mcdermott? I understand after 5 or 6 years you've got you're preference, but a comparison would be appreciated.
Thanks again everyone.

pooltchr
08-08-2008, 04:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. pooltchr- fury vs. mcdermott? I understand after 5 or 6 years you've got you're preference, but a comparison would be appreciated.
Thanks again everyone. </div></div>

Only you can answer that question. While it's Fury for me, it might be McD for you. The best advice would be to try and find someone with one and see if you can try it. But it's more than the brand. Consider the shaft, tip, and joint type. They can make even the same brands feel different.
Steve

DeadCrab
08-08-2008, 06:32 AM
In his "No Time for Negative" DVD, Jimmy Reid discusses cue selection.

FWIW, for someone your size, he suggests a 60", 21.5 oz cue.

There are cue extenders available, if you can't find a longer cue. I've never used one, so can't comment as to whether they are a good idea or not.

Rich R.
08-08-2008, 06:38 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstump</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> pooltchr- fury vs. mcdermott? I understand after 5 or 6 years you've got you're preference, but a comparison would be appreciated.
Thanks again everyone. </div></div>
What you have to realize is that pool cues are a very personal choice, similar to buying a pair of shoes. Some feel better to you and some feel better to someone else. No one can make a choice for you.
Get out and try as many cues as you can, whether or not they are in your price range, so you can get a feel for what you like and what you don't like. Some cue dealers will allow you to test hit cues, as long as you don't chalk the tips. Attempt to find one in your area. In your travels, you will know when you hit with the right cue for you. Buy it.
Don't expect that to be the final cue you will buy. As you progress with the game, your taste in cues will also change. Some of us have more than one cue. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

JoeW
08-08-2008, 08:11 AM
I know a fellow who is tall, 6' 3"+ and his expensive cues are all 62" long. He says that is best for him. I think that the newer low stance requires a longer cue for most of us. I am only 5'7" with long arms and I use a 60" cue that allows me to grip closer to the balance point with a fairly long bridging distance.
I understand that Allison Fisher uses a shorter cue but then she has a shorter wing span.

As noted above check your stance and your natural grip and see where the cue balance point is. You too may need a longer stick.

Rail Rat
08-08-2008, 09:16 AM
Here's my 2 cents.

Consider this. Maybe you have learned to play on the wrong cues!

Now that you have a proper cue you're having a hard time adjusting. Before you spend the extra money try sticking with it until it starts working for you.

You may find this is the cue you really need. When I switched from snooker to pool I had to adapt to a whole different cue, it took a while but now I can't play without it.

PS, put a quality medium tip on it, its a whole new world.


-rat

SpiderMan
08-08-2008, 10:27 AM
If you've been playing with house cues, you are probably accustomed to a fairly soft tip. Most places around here seem to use Elk Master or similar tips on their house cues. Perhaps this helps keep the drunks from miscueing as much and golfing the cueballs into the plate-glass windows.

Anyway, it seems most of the lower-end production cues now come with very hard tips, so a change here might make things feel a lot more familiar.

Aside from tips, it still takes time for a player to become accustomed to a new cue. Start out playing with less sidespin (more centerball shots) in your typical game. I played with an older Meucci for many years, then bought a Jacoby. I needed about two months of solid play before I got used to the Jacoby. It was 1-1/2 ounces heavier, and balanced more forward. It had a smaller-diameter shaft and a stainless-steel joint. Very different feel. But once I got used to it, I played as well as I ever did with the Meucci.

SpiderMan

Rail Rat
08-08-2008, 10:59 AM
Good points Spider.

He also mentioned his new cue is longer. That means he could have had his grip to far forward on the shorter house cue, now he can move it back if needed.
He should check to see if his forearm is vertical in his stance.

gstump
08-08-2008, 05:23 PM
I guess I'm gonna have to find some shops around me, which has proven to bit harder than I thought it would be. My guess is I'll just have to stick to practicing the fundamentals for now anyway, and If the cue keeps giving me as much trouble as it is after a week or so I'll have to go look for a new one. Luckily being a younger player I don't have a whole lot else I need to spend money on except food and rent. As much fun as pool is I don't have any problem spending cash on it.

pooltchr
08-08-2008, 07:07 PM
Check your PM's
Steve

1Time
08-08-2008, 09:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I'm gonna have to find some shops around me, which has proven to bit harder than I thought it would be. </div></div>
I suggest calling ahead to see if they allow you to shoot with thier display models. No sense going if you can't shoot with them. And I would give preference to the business that allows you to chalk their cues.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My guess is I'll just have to stick to practicing the fundamentals for now anyway, and If the cue keeps giving me as much trouble as it is after a week or so I'll have to go look for a new one. </div></div>
With enough practice and adapting to your new cue, you may find it plays better for you than a house cue. I wouldn't count on it, but that is possible and may take well over a week or so. It's more likely that if you try a lot of different cues, you'll find one that plays better for you right now, but doing so often isn't easy either. Better money spent than on a new cue often is on pool instruction, but that isn't to say a good match between player and cue can't make a world of difference.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Luckily being a younger player I don't have a whole lot else I need to spend money on except food and rent. As much fun as pool is I don't have any problem spending cash on it. </div></div>
I suggest a higher priority than pool should be making a savings account grow and maintaining an insurance policy. Nothing wrong with learning with a house cue.

av84fun
08-11-2008, 02:37 AM
I would suspect the tip first, in terms of different playability.
We don't hit the cue ball with anything other than the tip...at least when we are reasonably sober.

Two things are likely.

1. That your Fury tip has different spin characteristics than the house cue tip. Not better or worse necessarily...just different and differnet is BAD until you adjust to it.

2. Since you are new to the game there is a 100% chance that you are A) hitting most shots too hard and B) using more english, intentionally or unintentionally than you should.

At this stage of your development english (side) is one of your WORST enemies due to spin induced throw, swerve and squirt...none of which you fully understand at this point nor have much ability to correctly compensate for.

So, do your best to hit almost every shot on the vertical center line unless you are faces with a shape "emergency" and shoot ALL long shots with CENTER BALL and to hell with shape...just take what you get and go from there.

Otherwise, you miss and sell out to better players.

But back to the topic...just get used to your new cue and especially the tip and you'll be fine.

Regards,
Jim

Bambu
08-11-2008, 07:07 AM
I understand why you are suggesting center ball, Jim. But if he avoids the english, how is he going to learn the game for what it really is? I think any member of a pool forum either knows how to play, or wants to learn how.

So unless is is a must win game, I would rather experiment with the english, sell out, and get hammered. I swallow it as a long term investment, and I learn more with every shot and match(more than I would just using center ball anyway.) If you cant swallow your pride by trying shots that seem impossible now, how else are you going to make them down the road? Not everyone has the time, dedication, patience or cash to practice alone. And I'm not trying to pick an argument or anything, you always make valid points. I just think a guy who can string 4 or 5 balls is ready to start learning english.

1Time
08-12-2008, 02:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bambu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just think a guy who can string 4 or 5 balls is ready to start learning english. </div></div>
The question is when to start learning English.

According to av84fun, that should be after 500 racks. That seems quite arbitrary to me because you could have someone able to benefit from learning English before 500 racks and someone else not ready even after 500 racks. And according to Bambu, that should be after being able to string 4 or 5 balls, which is a performance based determination.

I favor a performance based determination if not receiving instruction. In my opinion, if a player is not receiving instruction, the cue ball should be struck along a vertical axis until they have run a rack of 15 balls. Then learn English. Instruction likely will bring this about sooner than later.

However, with instruction some can benefit from learning English much sooner and without having run a rack of 15 balls without English. So if I'm showing someone how to shoot and they appear ready to benefit from it, I go ahead and show them.

A big part of the success that I have in showing people how to shoot pool is in modifying their mechanics, stroke technique, aiming system, and shot selection. Some people pick up this stuff much faster than most and can benefit from learning English sooner.

Bambu
08-12-2008, 08:51 AM
Running a whole rack using no english is tough enough for experienced players. It just seems like a matter of luck when a beginner ends up with a rack of 15 easily connected balls. That could take years, or even a 3 could get really lucky quickly. Unless you are perfect with follow, draw and touch.....english is going to be needed at some point. Its tough to use balls ran as a guide for english use. I mean, 5 hangars arent going to cut it. But once you can draw, follow and stop(and have a basic concept of ghost ball aim)I dont see why english cant be learned. I guess a better measure of english readiness would be an apa level 4. IMO, most 4's I see are ready but cant run a rack.

Instruction is great, it speeds the whole process along. But lots of people could learn just by watching and/or reading. That may seem slow, but slower would be to avoid the english instead of learning it. Smart practice habits and good observation can get you a long way. Lessons work best when a player no longer seems to improve on his own. But the longer you avoid the english, the longer its going to take to learn.