View Full Version : The naked truth about Plamegate.

08-08-2008, 06:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><u>Rule can head off dirty tricks at CIA</u>
Published on: 11/02/05

It's like a spy thriller. Institutional rivalries and political loyalties have fostered an
intelligence officer's resentment against the government. Suddenly, an opportunity
appears for the agent to undercut the national leadership. A vital question of
intelligence forms the core justification for controversial military actions by the
current leaders. If this agent can get in the middle of that question, distort that
information and make it public, the agent might foster regime change in the
upcoming election.

But the rules on agents are clear. They can't purposely distort gathered intelligence, go public with secret information or use their position or information to manipulate domestic elections or matters without risking their job or jail. But their spouse can!

The agent realizes her spouse can go out on behalf of the spy agency, can distort information, go public with classified information and use all this spy-agency-sponsored material and credentials to try to pull down the current government, and it is all perfectly legal.

Suppose the spouse adds just one more brilliant, well-aimed lie: claim your foremost political opponent put the spouse up to the trip. As your spouse uses your agency's name to mount attacks, your enemy may fall into your trap. Will your enemy suffer your spouse's lies or take the bait and try to clarify his non-role? If he tells the press he didn't hire your spouse, the press will demand to know, "Then who did?"

Instead of you violating secrecy laws, it is your victim who is guilty because he tried to set the record straight. Heads, you win; tails, he loses.

It sounds unbelievable, a fiction, perhaps to be called "To Sting a King." But it is no fiction. This is the story behind Valerie Plame, Joe Wilson and the Bush administration. And it appears that Plame and Wilson will get away with the biggest sting operation ever.

No one seems to care that our intelligence agency has crippled our president. Certainly not the media.

They are determined to make Wilson a hero. Recall the dozens of times the Washington Post and The New York Times carried his lies on the front page, above the fold. The conclusive story discrediting Wilson was buried 6 feet deep, back by the obituaries.

To the media, it doesn't matter that the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence says Wilson lied about what he did and with whom he met while investigating Iraqi attempts to purchase "yellowcake" uranium.

To the media, it doesn't matter that the CIA says what Wilson did actually find supported that Iraq was attempting to buy the uranium a direct contradiction to Wilson's public claims.

To the media, it doesn't matter that he claimed the vice president assigned him to the uranium investigation when we all know now it was his

Some absurdly claim that Plame had nothing to do with her husband's political activities against President Bush. But let it be clear. Plame could not have done what Wilson did and gotten away with it. Wilson could not have done what he did without Plame giving him a way to do it.

Something has to be done. We can't let the CIA become the domestic dirty tricks shop, with Republican and Democratic agents each trying to pull down their opposing presidents.

We need a Plame rule. Any family member of a CIA agent tapped to help out must live by the same rules regarding information disclosure and domestic political manipulations as those imposed on the agent. If the family member fails to live by those rules, the agent is terminated.

Clearly this will restrict the flexibility of the CIA. But who ever thought that the flexibility given to CIA agents would be misused to destabilize a
Rule can head off dirty tricks at CIA.

No one until Valerie Plame.

Zell Miller is a former Georgia governor and U.S. senator. </div></div>

OH DEAR! (http://www.attackmachine.com/PDF/Zell_DirtyTricks.pdf)


08-08-2008, 06:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><u>CIA Run Amok[/SIZE]</u>

By the Editors

The reasons for Porter Goss?s abrupt departure as CIA director are shrouded in mystery. But its effect is not. It gives the impression that there has been a coup by the CIA insiders who have waged a covert policy war against the Bush administration for five years. The White House must act quickly to correct the impression that the renegades have won.

The CIA is supposed to work for the president. It was created in 1948 to be the president?s civilian, non-partisan, non-policy intelligence arm. Its job is to provide an accurate picture of facts and trends so that decision makers can formulate good policy. Too often the agency has performed that job miserably, the greatest example being its gargantuan miscalculations about the Soviet Union. In retrospect, this is perhaps unsurprising. The CIA has always had a leftist bent, well represented in its upper echelons even under directors of staunchly anti-Communist and pro-national-security orientation.
During the Bush presidency, however, the agency has not been content with subtly pushing its own agenda while underperforming its nominal mission. It has run amok. In fact, it worked assiduously?though unsuccessfully?to depose the administration in the 2004 election, and since then has continued brazenly undermining Bush?s foreign policy.

Having failed to detect the 9/11 plot and predicted that the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was a ?slam dunk? certainty, the CIA has been in blame-shifting mode since 2001. Amazingly, it authorized the head of its most important counterterrorism group, the unit responsible for targeting al Qaeda, to write a book attacking the Iraq war and the Bush administration?s foreign policy. That analyst, Michael Scheuer, who published Imperial Hubris anonymously, later acknowledged publicly that ?as long as the book was being used to bash the president, [the CIA] gave me carte blanche to talk to the media.?

By then, of course, the agency?s not-so-covert operations against the Iraq war were in full swing. When the administration posed questions in 2002 about intelligence reports that Saddam Hussein had sought uranium yellowcake (a potential nuclear precursor) in Niger, Valerie Plame Wilson, a CIA analyst who thought these reports were ?crazy,? helped arrange to have her husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson, sent on a CIA fact-finding mission. Though the assignment was classified, the CIA permitted Wilson to author a New York Times op-ed ripping the administration for purportedly misstating intelligence in the run-up to the war and suggesting?disingenuously, it turned out?that Joseph Wilson had found no evidence that Iraq had sought uranium from Niger. A coterie of current and former agency officers demanded the prosecution of administration officials when Plame?s status as a CIA employee?a matter that appears to have been widely known, and whose leak caused no damage to national security?was mentioned in the media. Yet this clique has been silent about damaging leaks by agency operatives who have outed themselves to serve the higher cause of attacking Bush.

Meanwhile, the CIA used its funding clout to underwrite Bush?s opponents. From 2001 through 2004, the agency?s Counterterrorism Center provided more than $15 million for various studies led by former Clinton officials (such as Richard Clarke) and Bush critics (such as the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace). The resulting products, according to a CIA spokeswoman, were aimed to bolster ?our analytic product.? A 2004 investigation by the Washington Times found that the Counterterrorism Center had not funded any research by organizations supportive of the administration?s foreign policy.

Most damaging of all, however, has been the CIA?s incorrigible leaking. Again and again, it has demonstrated that it is more dedicated to harming the Bush administration?s war effort than to protecting its own secret activities. On the eve of the 2004 presidential debates, for example, the CIA selectively leaked a report claiming that it had warned in early 2003 that a joint Baathist-jihadist insurgency would follow a U.S. invasion of Iraq. The report?which turned out not to have said much of anything about an insurgency, and to have been wrong in its core prognostications?was written by Paul Pillar, who has been happy to rip the Bush administration in the press, identifying himself as ?a top national intelligence officer.?

In May 2005, CIA officials leaked to the Washington Post details of a covert operation in which airplanes owned by CIA front companies were being used for various activities, including the renditions of top al Qaeda operatives. Six months later the Post, again relying on agency insiders (among others), reported that the CIA was using secret prisons in Eastern Europe to detain and interrogate high-level al Qaeda prisoners. This leak gravely jeopardized the cooperation of allied governments, whose own security and intelligence gathering were imperiled by the disclosure.

On the eve of a critical congressional vote on Patriot Act renewal, the New York Times sensationally broke a story it had been sitting on for a year: According to intelligence-community sources (which almost certainly included CIA officials), the NSA had, since 9/11, been intercepting international communications between suspected al Qaeda terrorists and persons stationed inside the United States. Aside from delaying the Patriot Act?s extension for months, the NSA leak has taught the enemy about our methods and submerged a vital program?an effort to create an early-warning system to avoid another 9/11?in a sea of legal controversy.

?It is crucial that the administration and Hayden
make clear from day one that, while Goss is gone,
the CIA purge is far from over.?

Porter Goss, a former Republican congressman who once served as an official in the CIA?s clandestine service, was named by President Bush to head up the agency 19 months ago. His primary task was to end its bare-knuckles insurrection and policy interference, and return it to the business of intelligence collection and analysis. His tenure was marked by non-stop turmoil and bickering, as he moved to root out the insurgents and they fought back with a vengeance.

Goss?s sudden ouster is, at best, ill timed. He had merely scratched the problem?s surface. Further, the lack of a clear explanation for his departure is extremely harmful. It is certain to be spun as a coup by the insurgents. Such a perception will only embolden them, laying the groundwork for more leaks?and more damage to national security.

The president has named Gen. Michael Hayden, former head of the NSA and current deputy to national intelligence director John Negroponte, as Goss?s successor. It is crucial that the administration and Hayden make clear from day one that, while Goss is gone, the CIA purge is far from over. Those who are using the agency to undermine the war effort must be rooted out, no matter who is in charge.</div></div>
OH MY! (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MjJlY2ZhNzZkNThhODg0YTVjNTk0MzkxMWU5ZDQ2YjE=)


08-08-2008, 07:41 AM
Zell Miller......that's some funny stuff larry...I got a tee time:)

08-08-2008, 07:45 AM
It does seem a lot of people have tee times when things like this come up. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

08-08-2008, 09:12 AM
This is your "proof"???????????????????????????
Shirley, you can't be serious !!!

08-08-2008, 02:45 PM
I looked into this and it turns out that Wilson was lying the whole time.

Washington Post Article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39834-2004Jul9.html?referrer=emailarticle)

And if you really want to see the dirt:

The Senate Intelligence Committee Report (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/senateiraqreport.pdf)

They even had the phone number of the guy in Niger who had the proof of the deal and he never even called him.

Something in this report does worry me. The Nigerian embassy is reporting that Niger is producing 1000 tons more uranium than is being reported by the mining companies which are owned by the French. So, where's it all going?

08-08-2008, 02:52 PM
ERWS meeting tonight under the bridge, bring sheets and waders.

m /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

08-08-2008, 03:10 PM
If these are the definitive reports...then why is the matter still in question some four years later? The proof is right there on page 156..."Curveball"
Why hasn't Mr. Wilson been charged with "something", or his wife?
Was it GWB's bad luck that of all the people he could have sent to check the story out, he picked this traitor?
I gather though this is some kind of nefarious plot then, cooked up by Joe and Valerie....the new "Rosenburgs" to bring down the Presidency, and to put the country at risk of a nuclear attack.
Seems like after catching Saddam, GWB is no longer interested in Nigerian yellow-cake, nor that other guy....what's his name...Osama sumthin.
Well, I still believe the truth, the real truths will never be known in this lifetime

08-09-2008, 07:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cheesemouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Zell Miller......that's some funny stuff larry...I got a tee time:) </div></div>
I bet you are really going wading with Mike.


08-09-2008, 04:43 PM
ERWS Awards ceremony coming get your nominations in today.....


08-09-2008, 05:50 PM
So many names, so little time.....

08-10-2008, 04:21 AM
Don't worry, you are sure to rank very high on the list.


08-10-2008, 11:10 AM

08-10-2008, 12:54 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ERWS meeting tonight under the bridge, bring sheets and waders.

m /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif </div></div>

What does that mean? What is ERWS supposed to be?

08-10-2008, 01:20 PM
as a self styled expert in cryptography....(I broke the Enigma code, well, would have, had they asked)...
I am still working on the exact meaning but believe I have decoded it in part:
still working on the last word though.....

08-10-2008, 06:32 PM
LOL, mikey has been posting this stuff all over the place. He has been seen referring to it as Egyptian River Waders Society or something similar. My guess is that he found it somewhere and it was funny and is wearing it out lww did with his bbbut booosh, stuff. I say, let the old guy have his fun and eventually he will run back under his rock. Until then, keep up witty copy/paste mikey.


08-12-2008, 01:04 AM
I thought this would be helpful.
In case you missed this on AZ:
Like it matters.........

This is a prime example of the nonsense that suffices for Global political dialogue around here.
Someone please insult someone else while someone else insists Obama wouldn't support the troops even though he'll be The Commander in Chief. I mean really have you no shame?

This blatant disregard for the Office of CiC and its historic Command structure that have served many Presidents. It's not the first time.

The bigoted and hateful predisposition of some of our posters with insults for a man striving so far beyond their little worlds is showing us the limit of their intellect, the border of their humanity, how far they've fallen from the common grace of being willing to find out by experience the worth of a leader. When so many are drawn from need for relief from a time seeming to have come from a nightmare.

Relief from having their children wage a war without a known goal. Relief from a group of leaders that make secrets of information already known to hide their faults.

A time fraught with false alarms of danger to divert the attention of decent people from learning their elected administration has exposed an agent working to find dangers in the real world.

Or that the Troops have been sent into combat with inferior equipment and are dying from the mistake. When the No Bid Contracts going to the Vice Presidents Cronies result in our troops eating MRE rations because the contract has a Tactical Zone clause.

Or a thousand other incidents of WAR PROFITEERING.

And then there's torture.
At the War Crimes trials after WW2 Two Japanese Soldiers were executed for "WATERBOARDING". We have now become the enemy.
The things done in the name of the USA citizens are criminal. Who's to blame?

It's a sure bet the right wing denial freaks on this and other forums will howl but it will change nothing. None of you could do better.

War is an abomination. War makes no one great. No one wins a war.

You tire me.


Gayle in MD
08-12-2008, 01:26 AM
Did you write this? It's excellent!

Gayle in Md.
Republicans are without conscience.

Gayle in MD
08-12-2008, 01:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Something in this report does worry me. The Nigerian embassy is reporting that Niger is producing 1000 tons more uranium than is being reported by the mining companies which are owned by the French. So, where's it all going?

Midland, TX. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

These articles are ridiculous. The Niger embassy in Italy was broken into, and the only thing stolen was the official stamp and the official stationary, and the investigations led right back to the White House cronies and the American Enterprise Institute, and a guy named Ledeen, a Bush/Cheney operative.

Burlesconi was mixed up in this thing. He was sucking up to Bush around that same time, and Ledeen had ties with the thugs suspected of the break in, that led to the fake intelligence, that led right back to the AEI and the WH.

There has more criminal behavior going on over these last almost eight years than we'll ever get to the bottom of. What we know about is bad enough!

That Yellow Cake is under the tightest of control and security. There is no way in hell that Saddam could have been angling for it without exposure and plenty of people sitting up and taking notice.

Just another Republican scam by the crooks, to promote their unsavory was without reasonable cause.

Gayle in Md.
Already posted a long Vanity Fair on this years ago, right here, and it's been investiagted by numerous prize winning investigative authors. Saddam never tried to get Yellow Cake from Niger. Just another Bush/Cheney/Rice lie.

08-12-2008, 06:19 AM
I see you go wading with Mike.


08-12-2008, 07:21 AM
LWW big difference between outing and termination, pass that on to Zelman Miller.####

08-12-2008, 07:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You tire me.</div></div>Then take a nap mikey.


08-13-2008, 02:29 PM
Ed, just because the glove didn't fit......you don't have to overlook everything else

08-13-2008, 03:09 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ed, just because the glove didn't fit......you don't have to overlook everything else
</div></div>You definitely do not have any hope of being a poet. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif


08-13-2008, 03:37 PM
Well, that's where you are wrong....
I just came up with this:
Ed, in a fit insane
thrust his head beneath a train
all were much surprised to find
how much it broadened Ed's mind

08-13-2008, 03:55 PM
Well, how bout this?

Q who is clearly insane
Put his head out into the rain
And much to his chagrin
He found it rusted his pin

Wolf, the reason Wilson did not get charged is because he was not asked to sign a confidentiality agreement. It's in the report. If you don't have to sign one of those it's not even classified much less covert.

One thing I think everyone missed, time and time again the investigation found that the CIA was not only incompetent but knowingly passed false information to the administration. What was Valorie Plame's specific area of responsibility? Why does this idiot still have a job, much less a book tour?

When are we the people going to stop rewarding incompetence? Pelosi has a book tour too? Are you serious?

08-13-2008, 06:47 PM
You are saying then that it is ok to out a CIA agent, as long as you haven't signed the agreement...and that makes what...less covert? Valerie?
Some stories that I read were that CIA reports were ignored, suppressed,...
I think Mike has a better handle on this then I have...I'm a victim of the liberal press, according to Ed...
I hope he answers your question

hmmm, if you don't sign, it becomes less covert, can't even be classified....I lernt sumthin today

08-14-2008, 06:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are saying then that it is ok to out a CIA agent, as long as you haven't signed the agreement...and that makes what...less covert? Valerie?
Some stories that I read were that CIA reports were ignored, suppressed,...
I think Mike has a better handle on this then I have...I'm a victim of the liberal press, according to Ed...
I hope he answers your question

hmmm, if you don't sign, it becomes less covert, can't even be classified....I lernt sumthin today </div></div>

Maybe I could have explained it better. I am not gifted with words like you and Deeman. Whenever you do work for the CIA, DOD etc. they give you a document to sign stating that you cannot talk about anything you do for them. After that step the work is assigned a security classification. Work can be classified and not be considered covert. Which myself, Spiderman and I believe Ed have all done.

If you never signed the agreement they can't come back later and say your work was classified and you can talk about it and there is nothing they can legally do about it. If the work cannot be considered as classified it cannot be considered covert.

Wilson was not asked to sign anything, so he was free to go to the media and out himself and his wife, which he did and there is no crime according the the legal definitions which in this case are very specific.

I read the indictment that m60 posted next door. Did anyone else notice that it contradicts itself?

Gayle in MD
08-14-2008, 07:09 AM
First of all, Joe Wilson did not identify himself, originally. he was quoted, as a anonymous source.

Secondly, Valarie Plame's career was ruined, and people who were working with her, were put at risk because she was outed.

Did you see her testimony?

The president de-classified the information, and extended that presidential authority to Cheney, an unprecedented move, to legalize Cheney's role in outing her.

You righties like to split hairs on this, and try to say that Armitage outed her, but Armitage didn't know she was covert. And there is no language in the law that states the only the first one to out a covert agent, can be charged with the intent to out a covert agent.

This was a situation where there was a conspiracy to commit a felony, which Libby, Rove, Cheney, and Bush, were all involved in, and that's why McClellen said that when he learned that Bush, after he had been ranting over leaks, was actually the man who leaked the info, with the de-classification of Plame's identity, and without even checking with the CIA to learn if there would be any serious repercussions for her, and other operatives, he lost respect, and no longer trusted any of them, since they had all lied to him about their respective roles.

When Plame's book came out, the CIA redacted much of what she wrote about her career, before it was published. And to prove the sensitivity of her position, she and her publicher published it, with the blackened printed lines included. The book was full of them!

The special prosecutor proved that when Novak published the story, none of her friends, or family, or neighbors, knew where she worked. He went to their doors, and asked them, after the right wing press began to spread this lie that everybody knew that she worked at the CIA.

There was nothing in Joe Wilson's statements about the Niger yellow cake, or the lies that the President told to us, or his eventual op/ed article on the State of The Union misinformation that the administration put out there, about his wife.

The Iraqi who gave them faulty information about Saddam's bioligical weapons, and Yellow cake, was tortured until he told them what they wanted to hear, and Curveball, had been a known liar.

Cheney and Bush set up Feith to head up efforts to create fake intelligence, and some who worked at the CIA said they felt like it was torture going to work, with Libby, and Feith, on their asses non stop pushing for them to come up with intelligence that would match their agenda to invade, and depose, Saddam.

Michael Ledeen, who was a part of the cabal in the administration, working on creating fake intelligence to justify the war in Iraq, and digging, in some cases, from intelligence older than ten years, also had ties with crooks in italy. Crooks who were know to make money by aiding governments in creating fake intelligence. Once that fake intelligence begins to travel around in the intelligence circles between countries, it becomes accepted overnight. It's the old story, how a lie spreads around the world, before the truth gets its pants on.

When the Niger Embassy was broken into, in Italy, with nothing missing except the official stamp, and official stationary, intelligence officers around the world realized that this italian bunch of thugs, were involved. Ledeen, had had dealings with them, and had his fingerprints all over it. Interestingly, and even before 9/11, Burlesconni, the President (Prime Minister)of Italy, visited the White House numerous times, even before 9/11, and was anxious to do favors for Bush, since he had some designs of his own which included America, and some of his own financial plans. That began almost right after Bush crashed into the White House, Compliments of the Supreme Court.

Ledeen was a neocon, from the AMerican Enterprise Institute, and we all know that that was the breeding ground of the neocon, "Project For The New American Century" A grand design to remove Saddam, and adopt more agressive foreign polcies, and he was also involved in the administration's efforts to create and skew intelligence. It is well known, that there was great pressure from the White House, on the CIA to come up with what they wanted, not to advise, but to create. Many resigned over it. Clarke's book goes into much of it. As does Schauers, and Rich's "the Greates Story Ever Sodl" and many other books from well respected authors.

After all the intelligence they used was revealed to be false, and cherry picked, they then blamed the CIA, when they themselves were behind the push for the false intelligence.

When they say the whole world thought Saddam had WMD, the leave out the fact that the reason why, was because they paid people, through Ledeen, to break into the Niger Embassy, in Italy, and create the fake memo. The break in was just months before Bush creashed into the White House.

Even if 9/11 hadn't given them the great weapon to use on the AMerican People, FEAR, they fully intended to invade Iraq. When the centerpiece of their whole Mushroom cloud, Saddam/al Qaeda connection was beginning to be exposed for the lie that it was, Joe Wilson became their enemy, because he knew, and leaked to the press, annonymously, that it was a lie, and he knew that they knew damned well that they were lying, and he spoke out about it. And Plame was asked under oath, and she did not send Joe Wilson to Niger, her boss did that, and the administration spread around the theory that she was just a secretary, who sent her husband on a junket, which some dummies still try to refer to as fact. The testimony Plame made, stated that the administration, at that time, was pusing for information about Saddam and Niger, and Yellow Cake. The administration's Ledeen, was involved in the break in, at the Niger Embassy, in Italy, and was well known that he had the knoweldge and connections in Italy for the break in, and how to create that fake document. Wilson was originally the man who recognized that the document was fake.

One would surely have to suspend critical thinking to believe that Bush and Cheney weren't pissed, and didn't set into motion their plan to make it look like Joe Wilson was just some flunky, whose wife "Sent him on a junket" which was the term Cheney himself used when he scrawled those words on the actual NY Times article written by Wilson, "What I Didn't Find In Africa" for Libby, giving Libby his directions, how to proceed with the press, in discrediting Wilson.

If you don't think they were mad that Wilson forced them to remove those sixteen words, from the SOTU address, the lynchpin of their trumped up lies to justify Iraq, all I can say is that you must need a crayon.

Gayle in Md.
My cousin's daughter was engaged to Burlesconi's son at that time, and when he came to Washington, he spent time with my Uncle, her grand father, so I know how often he was sneaking in and out of the White House, btw.

08-14-2008, 08:24 AM
I was jes having some fun...but you have cleared up what you really meant to say.
It still seems odd to me that it was no crime for Wilson, (if he was the one) to out his wife.....odder still that Libby gets convicted for obstructing the investigation into the outing, if it was so clear Joe did it? At this stage though, who cares anymore?
I think that despite out best efforts here...Deeman will take the real truth behind this to his grave; we'll still be debating the issue

08-14-2008, 08:26 AM
Pelosi is being rewarded handsomely for her incompetence. She can hardly give the book away. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif


08-14-2008, 08:29 AM
.......all I can say is that you must need a crayon.
final score:
Gayle 1
neocons 0

08-14-2008, 09:26 AM
It's little like the steroids issue in baseball. If steroids were not illegal when you played and you are still stupid enough to go before congress and deny that you ever got butt pricked, despite your not previously broken the law, now you are firmly nestled in the loving caress of deep do do. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Gayle in MD
08-14-2008, 09:44 AM
LOL, and because Joe was the culprit, the Special Prosecutor, and three judges, said that Libby obsturcted the investigation into learning all those who were involved in outing a Covert Agent.

And also said that a cloud remained over the Vice President's office.

If one were to read the statements of the judge who heard Libby's trial, there is no way that three judges, and a special prosecutor, who is a Republican, BTW, ever considered that anyone outed Plame, other than this administration's attack dogs, on direct orders from the Vice President, and Bush.

Gayle in Md.