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1Time
08-08-2008, 07:13 AM
Any ideas for adding a little tackiness to a slippery Irish linen wrap? Maybe something used in another sport to help a grip?

The Irish linen wrap on my current primary shooting cue is too slippery. It always has been that way, but recently I've noticed it's causing me to miss shots. And I don't want to consciously grip the cue harder to prevent my hand from slipping.

My ideal wrap for this cue would be the exact same feel of the forearm on it, located right above the wrap. However, I don't know of a way to duplicate that feeling in place of the wrap. The next best thing I can think of doing is to paint its Irish linen wrap with Minwax Polycrylic. I am fairly confident this will work well; however before trying this I wanted to see if anyone had any good ideas. If all esle fails, I will have the wrap replaced with something else, leather or something.

cjt08046
08-08-2008, 07:45 AM
Just off the top of my head, I wonder if overgrip wrap from the world of tennis might help. In sporting goods stores, in the tennis section, look for "overgrip" wrap. It's a wrap players put on their racket handles to help their grip. It comes in different colors and different levels of tackiness. I use it for my racket and it does a good job, but I haven't tried it on a cue. Here's a website with some overgrips:

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/catthumbs.html?CCODE=OverGrips

JoeW
08-08-2008, 08:21 AM
I am not a cue maker but I have changed Irish Linen before. It wasn't that difficult. There are several materials that could be used.

Seems to me that Meucci and some of the other cue makers use some form of polyurethene on their cues. From my previous wood working I might try wipe on poly for a few coats and then go from there. Spray on would take many many coats to get a nice finish.

I sure would try it first with a broom stick wraped with Irish linen as a trial run.

1Time
08-08-2008, 08:21 AM
Thanks, but it looks like those over wraps would leave seams, which I know will bug me.

I'm hoping to find a product I can spray onto the Irish linen wrap to give it a tacky feel.

But if I can't find that or something better from this thread, then I will try the Minwax polycrylic.

And then if the polycrylic doesn't work, I may order a sang-lee power grip (http://highrock.storesecured.com/items/accessories/sang-lee-power-grip-regular-slp1pgub-detail.htm).

JoeW
08-08-2008, 08:24 AM
Oh - I have removed Irish linen and replaced it with a leather wrap before. That too was not all that difficult. The leather can be obtained from several different places.

Personally I like the lather wrap best. Just seems to suit my hands. But differen people have different needs.

1Time
08-08-2008, 08:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not a cue maker but I have changed Irish Linen before. It wasn't that difficult. There are several materials that could be used.

Seems to me that Meucci and some of the other cue makers use some form of polyurethene on their cues. From my previous wood working I might try wipe on poly for a few coats and then go from there. Spray on would take many many coats to get a nice finish.

I sure would try it first with a broom stick wraped with Irish linen as a trial run.
</div></div>
JoeW, what wipe on poly product are you suggesting? I've used Minwax poly over paint with success before. I have a feeling it would work well. But I am willing to consider using some other product if it may work better. I won't be testing it first. If it doesn't work, I will just cover it up with a wrap or cut it off and go from there. Thanks

JoeW
08-08-2008, 08:29 AM
I use Minwax and begin with the low gloss. I use high gloss for the last few coats.

A trial run won't take all that long and will give you a feel for how much to use at one time. One of the things I have learned about poly is that it is much more effective to use very thin coats, a damp cloth is best for the first few coats. It only takes 15 minutes to dry and you can build up many coats in a few hours.

Sure would like to know how you make out.

JoeW
08-08-2008, 08:37 AM
If you replace the Irish linen use Elmer's spray on fabric adhesive ($5.00 at Walmart is the best price). The linen stays in place much better. I also found that buying a thicker thread gave a better feel. It is a matter of looking at what you have and then checking what is available at JoAnn Fabrics or some such place. The larger hobby shops with craft materials have lots of good stuff.

1Time
08-08-2008, 08:42 AM
Another product that might work well painted over an Irish linen wrap for more grip... Mod Podge (http://www.plaidonline.com/apmp.asp#ModPodgeBrands). It comes in matte and gloss finishes and dries clear. I think it would give a little more tack to the grip than the polycrylic.

1Time
08-08-2008, 08:56 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use Minwax and begin with the low gloss. I use high gloss for the last few coats.

A trial run won't take all that long and will give you a feel for how much to use at one time. One of the things I have learned about poly is that it is much more effective to use very thin coats, a damp cloth is best for the first few coats. It only takes 15 minutes to dry and you can build up many coats in a few hours.

Sure would like to know how you make out. </div></div>
I see you're talking about the wipe-on version of the same product. I already have some polycrylic and am confident in my painting skills, so I won't be using the wipe-on. I will post my results in this thread, whatever I end up doing. Thanks

1Time
08-08-2008, 08:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you replace the Irish linen use Elmer's spray on fabric adhesive ($5.00 at Walmart is the best price). The linen stays in place much better. I also found that buying a thicker thread gave a better feel. It is a matter of looking at what you have and then checking what is available at JoAnn Fabrics or some such place. The larger hobby shops with craft materials have lots of good stuff. </div></div>
I just figured I go to my local cue maker if I was going to replace the wrap with another. Thanks

JJFSTAR
08-08-2008, 09:22 AM
When a ping–pong paddle is loosing its ability to impart spin on the ball (it has become too slick) players in the know put a couple of drops of lemon juice on it and the tackiness returns. This is of course an transitory solution but you might want to try it if you have a match coming up.

Bob_Jewett
08-08-2008, 10:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any ideas for adding a little tackiness to a slippery Irish linen wrap? Maybe something used in another sport to help a grip?

The Irish linen wrap ... </div></div>
If a main function of the grip is to keep your hand from slipping during the stroke, Irish linen is the wrong choice. If you do not want your back hand to slip during the stroke, a much better choice is a plain wood (finished) grip. (Some players like to use a "slip stroke" and for them these comments don't apply.)

The carom players already have a solution: nearly all of them use rubber slip-on grips.

A disadvantage of the plain wood handle is that it will usually be more expensive since the cue maker will have to use more good wood when it is visible.

1Time
08-10-2008, 01:01 AM
Bob_Jewett, great information for the readers. Thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob_Jewett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If a main function of the grip is to keep your hand from slipping during the stroke, Irish linen is the wrong choice. If you do not want your back hand to slip during the stroke, a much better choice is a plain wood (finished) grip. (Some players like to use a "slip stroke" and for them these comments don't apply.)</div></div>
I found it impossible to find a cue that I really liked that did not come standard without an Irish linen wrap. So I gave up and expanded my search to include cues with any kind of wrap. And sure enough soon after I found my current primary shooting cue, which happens to have a slippery Irish linen wrap, overly slippery. My other shooting cue also has an Irish linen wrap, but I have no problem at all with it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob_Jewett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The carom players already have a solution: nearly all of them use rubber slip-on grips.</div></div>
I had been considering a slip-on grip as a last resort. And before this I had been considering the use of wax paper or bees wax on the wrap, or to paint it with Minwax Polycrylic. However, I've since become convinced the wax or polycrylic won't provide enough of a grip that I'd like. So, I ordered a Sang Lee ultralight Power Grip.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob_Jewett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A disadvantage of the plain wood handle is that it will usually be more expensive since the cue maker will have to use more good wood when it is visible. </div></div>
Too bad more cues are not offered with the option of paying more for an unwrapped grip.

av84fun
08-10-2008, 03:49 AM
You might try "washing" the wrap with a Woolite solution on a cloth that is just barely dampened with it.

It could be that grit filling in the grooves of the wrap and hand oil etc, is what is causing the slickness which, if removed as above, would remove the slickness.

Just give it a good rub with the Woolite solution and then again with a clean, barely damp cloth (water only).

That won't hurt anything and might solve your problem without having to restort to tacky substances.

Regards,
Jim

av84fun
08-10-2008, 04:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob_Jewett</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any ideas for adding a little tackiness to a slippery Irish linen wrap? Maybe something used in another sport to help a grip?

The Irish linen wrap ... </div></div>
If a main function of the grip is to keep your hand from slipping during the stroke, Irish linen is the wrong choice. If you do not want your back hand to slip during the stroke, a much better choice is a plain wood (finished) grip. (Some players like to use a "slip stroke" and for them these comments don't apply.)

The carom players already have a solution: nearly all of them use rubber slip-on grips.

A disadvantage of the plain wood handle is that it will usually be more expensive since the cue maker will have to use more good wood when it is visible. </div></div>

I've never had any slippage issues and have played irish linen wrap for 40 years (I started out with leather).

When helping students to avoid excessive grip pressure...grabbing/snatching...I have them cradle the butt in the curl of their middle grip hand finger ONLY without squeezing even that finger.

In doing so, you can still get 2.5 table lengths of cb travel with zero slippage. By adding slight pressure to that one finger, I can easily draw 4 or 5 diamonds with no slippage.

With the back 3 fingers and the thumb entirely off the cue, I can get full table draw with no slippage.

One of the properties of Irish linen is the absorbtion of at least some hand moisture and oil which would not be accomplished by a plain wood butt.

Seems to me there are good reasons why Irish Linen is used nearly universally by top players...at least 8/9/10 ball players. I'm not positive about straight pool players but I would guess 95% of them use linen wrap.

Regards,
Jim

1Time
08-10-2008, 05:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: av84fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You might try "washing" the wrap with a Woolite solution on a cloth that is just barely dampened with it.</div></div>
I already ordered a rubber slip-on for it. The wrap is in like new condition. It appears pressed and heavily starched, smooth and slippery. The diameter of the grip is smaller than normal, and I just had 1/2 ounce added to the cue. So now it's slipping even more than before, on the forward part of my stroke with some shots. I have no problem using a slip-stroke with it or with my other cue that has an Irish linen wrap. This Blaze cue just has a bad wrap.

Bob_Jewett
08-10-2008, 05:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ... I already ordered a rubber slip-on for it. ... </div></div>
A potentially low-cost alternative is to visit your local medical supply store and buy "18-inch long 7/8-inch surgical drainage tubing" which is made of latex. The downsides are that the clerk may ask you whether you are an IV drug user and that it will not last for more than a month or two. The upsides are that it remains nicely tacky and it is quite thin.

skin
08-10-2008, 08:34 PM
I like the grip slippery. The slipping helps me find the right place (diameter) on the butt during preshot preparation.

However, I would approach the slickness problem - assuming it is due to the pressed starch and not a coating on the wrap - with saliva which has an enzyme in it that breaks down starch. I'd spit a little into my grip hand - not a hocker!, just saliva - often during practice and rub it into the wrap to see if over time the slickness goes away. If it does, that's a better solution than grip wraps or sprays if you want to keep your stick natural.

And oh, don't worry about the public health issues of the spit. Your bridge hand coming off of the cloth at a pool hall has potentially a lot worse on it than your saliva has in it for your grip hand. So, spit away but just don't lick your bridge fingers.

av84fun
08-11-2008, 01:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the grip slippery. The slipping helps me find the right place (diameter) on the butt during preshot preparation.

However, I would approach the slickness problem - assuming it is due to the pressed starch and not a coating on the wrap - with saliva which has an enzyme in it that breaks down starch. I'd spit a little into my grip hand - not a hocker!, just saliva - often during practice and rub it into the wrap to see if over time the slickness goes away. If it does, that's a better solution than grip wraps or sprays if you want to keep your stick natural.

And oh, don't worry about the public health issues of the spit. Your bridge hand coming off of the cloth at a pool hall has potentially a lot worse on it than your saliva has in it for your grip hand. So, spit away but just don't lick your bridge fingers.
</div></div>

Good idea...and I still think the Woolite solution might work as well. Like all surfactants, it breaks down/suspends lots of substances...especially such easy to dilute substances like starch. I would be that it is an additive applied to the linen like starch or "Scothguard" that is causing the problem. Linen in and of itself is not slick and I've never had a linen wrap in my hand that was too slick for normal play.

Regards,
Jim

1Time
08-11-2008, 05:26 AM
Thanks for all the inventive ideas for dealing with this slippery Irish linen wrap. I will keep them in mind if the rubber slip-on doesn't work out.

New2Pool
08-11-2008, 08:20 AM
I use a product called Stickum for tennis grips when I am playing in extremely humid weather. You can sometimes find it at sporting goods stores. It is often in the baseball or football section.

I don't think I would like it for pool because it is too tacky for me. But if that is what you want just search for "Stickum Spray" and you can find it at a lot of different stores.

KellyStick
08-11-2008, 11:42 AM
This is probably a bad idea and by the way I don't make cues and don't like linen wraps. But, perhaps you could abraid the wrap ever so slightly. I mean slightly. Like maybe start with some steel wool and try to just roughen the surface a bit. IF that does not help maybe some high grit sandpaper like above 400 or more applied very lightly. If you have decided that you are going to replace the wrap with something else you might try this anyway just to see. Then let me know so I'll know how good or bad this idea is.

MAC
08-11-2008, 02:43 PM
This would probably cause the wrap to fray, I'm no expert and people may very well be doing this. Just seems to me that would ruin the wrap.

1Time
08-11-2008, 04:53 PM
I borrowed one of my pool buddy's Players cues once that had its Irish linen wrap abraided. I didn't really like how it felt or looked because it was so different from the smooth grips I was used to. There was no slip to it at all. It felt like holding a worn dried out rope. While shooting quite well with this cue, I found myself periodically looking back at the grip and noticing how strange it felt but also how well it kept my grip hand from slipping. Not a solution for anyone using a slip stroke, and one major hurdle with it is if you can get used to how it feels, but it does work.

1Time
08-11-2008, 05:00 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: New2Pool</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use a product called Stickum for tennis grips when I am playing in extremely humid weather. You can sometimes find it at sporting goods stores. It is often in the baseball or football section.

I don't think I would like it for pool because it is too tacky for me. But if that is what you want just search for "Stickum Spray" and you can find it at a lot of different stores. </div></div>
I did consider this, but thought its tack might be a bit much.

mlfield
08-11-2008, 07:29 PM
I had problems with the linen wrap on my Predator but the solution is a simple one. Preferably get someone that works on cues and has a lathe. Put a coating of clear polyurathane on the linen wrap. You may to need to put a couple of applications. You can do it yourself with a small brush but it would be advisable to have a pro do it. But if you like the feeling of "no wrap" versus the linen, then you will love the wrap after you have the poly put on it.

1Time
08-12-2008, 12:48 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mlfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had problems with the linen wrap on my Predator but the solution is a simple one. Preferably get someone that works on cues and has a lathe. Put a coating of clear polyurathane on the linen wrap. You may to need to put a couple of applications. You can do it yourself with a small brush but it would be advisable to have a pro do it. But if you like the feeling of "no wrap" versus the linen, then you will love the wrap after you have the poly put on it. </div></div>
I had considered painting the wrap myself with Minwax Polycrylic since I have some. I painted the grip of one of my "test" cues with 3 coats of it, but I didn't like how it felt and not grippy enough. Somehow I forgot that I could ask a cue maker if he could paint a couple coats of clear polyurathane on it. That would probably come a lot closer to the feel I'm looking for. So I will check that out with him the next time I'm there. Thanks

zombiemodder
08-14-2008, 08:55 PM
I have discoverd that if you apply pure bee's wax to the wrap it will make the wrap less slippery. Just rub the bar of wax on the wrap then apply heat with a hair dryer and then buff the wrap with a piece of leather it feels great and make the wrap look good to.

1Time
08-14-2008, 11:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zombiemodder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have discoverd that if you apply pure bee's wax to the wrap it will make the wrap less slippery. Just rub the bar of wax on the wrap then apply heat with a hair dryer and then buff the wrap with a piece of leather it feels great and make the wrap look good to. </div></div>
That probably would work too. I priced bee's wax on eBay at under $5 shipped, but I wasn't sure if I'd like the feel and if it would give me enough grip, so I didn't try it. I will keep the option open to try this in case I don't like the slip-on wrap. Thanks

JoeW
08-15-2008, 07:43 AM
You should be able to get bee's wax in the canning section of your local hardware store or from any one who cans food.

Thanks for saying what happened with the home paint job.

zombiemodder
08-16-2008, 09:47 PM
I've had the bee's wax on my cue for about a month now and it is still working fine. I sujest strongly that you try this method if you dont like it you can always heat it up and it will probably be easy to remove. I bought mine on ebay for $4.50 for 3 1oz. bars.

1Time
08-17-2008, 12:33 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zombiemodder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had the bee's wax on my cue for about a month now and it is still working fine. I sujest strongly that you try this method if you dont like it you can always heat it up and it will probably be easy to remove. I bought mine on ebay for $4.50 for 3 1oz. bars. </div></div>Same reply as earlier... <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That probably would work too. I priced bee's wax on eBay at under $5 shipped, but I wasn't sure if I'd like the feel and if it would give me enough grip, so I didn't try it. I will keep the option open to try this in case I don't like the slip-on wrap. Thanks </div></div>

KellyStick
08-17-2008, 06:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This would probably cause the wrap to fray, I'm no expert and people may very well be doing this. Just seems to me that would ruin the wrap. </div></div>

Yeah MAC that was my concern that it would fray. I don't suggest that anyone is in fact doing this because I know of no one who is. Just an off the wall idea. BUt some extremely light fraying on almost the microspic level might do the trick? And follow that perhaps with a coating?