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skin
08-08-2008, 07:54 PM
I played in a tournament last night and there was a local Brunswick dealer and a cue maker whe claimed to have helped write the Texas Express rules into the BCA rule book there. Man, did those two guys detest Earl!

But I think Earl is right in most of his criticisms of how pool is presented to the public and how there is a need for standardized conditions (not just standard rules of play and equipment) like for lighting, foot surface, and fan seating/behavior for tournaments.

I also think he is right about having a shot clock. Here is what he said in a 2006 interview:

"I'm not going to watch a guy labor over four balls that are hangers. We should have a shot clock in every match. Make people think and shoot. In tennis you have 20 seconds to serve.

"I'm 44 years old and I treat myself like an athlete. I work hard to stay in shape. Then I'm punished by slow, lethargic players who take 40 strokes, powder their hands, take 20 more strokes, then get up and take a sip of water! You think that helps sell the game?"

He's right in my opinion. The boon of pool is that it is mostly thought of as a game in a smoke-filled room between drinking, reprobate gamblers, and anything you can get away with goes. That is quite sad because it is a great game of skill. Heck, even Texas Hold 'Em poker gets more legitimacy and air time than pool nowadays. It's not right and I believe Earl has been way ahead of the curve for a long time. I wish I had his email address to tell him so.

1Time
08-08-2008, 10:04 PM
I'm with Earl on every point mentioned in your post... for the betterment of the sport.

I will add this to those points. There should be more stringent specifications for pocket design and function, such that the ball does not jar easily and not drop in the pocket.

Rich R.
08-09-2008, 06:27 AM
Although Earl may have some very valid points, he is the last one who should be complaining. He should be looking at his own glass house before heaving rocks at others.

Earl is the most disruptive player I have ever seen at a tournament. When he is not satified with the conditions, or anything else, he chooses to complain to everyone while his opponent is trying to take a shot. He does this over and over again at tournament after tournament. IMHO, this is his way of sharking his opponents and nothing less. When Earl starts treating his opponents with the respect they deserve, maybe we can start listening to his complaints.

Rich R.
08-09-2008, 06:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will add this to those points. There should be more stringent specifications for pocket design and function, such that the ball does not jar easily and not drop in the pocket. </div></div>
I have to disagree with this point. I happen to like the slight differences in table design, from different manufacturers. As a player, it forces me to adjust to these differences and I think it makes me a better player. On the pro level, they should be able to adjust to these differences.

Differences in playing conditions haven't hurt baseball or golf. Each baseball stadium is different from the next and each golf course is different. In golf, they even change the position of the holes each day of a tournament. I don't think the slight differences in tables should hurt pool.

skin
08-09-2008, 06:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Although Earl may have some very valid points, he is the last one who should be complaining. He should be looking at his own glass house before heaving rocks at others.

Earl is the most disruptive player I have ever seen at a tournament. When he is not satified with the conditions, or anything else, he chooses to complain to everyone while his opponent is trying to take a shot. He does this over and over again at tournament after tournament. IMHO, this is his way of sharking his opponents and nothing less. When Earl starts treating his opponents with the respect they deserve, maybe we can start listening to his complaints. </div></div>

That's the flip side of the issue alright. Earl is not a good ambassador for the game, at least not like Mizerak was. But I do share Earl's enthusiasm for seeing the game elevated in its professionalism to a level like golf & tennis. It will be a long road because there is a lot of history and negative stereotyping to overcome, and Earl doesn't help much there with the way he acts sometimes.

[skin wrote above: "The boon of pool is that it is mostly thought of as a game in a smoke-filled room between drinking, reprobate gamblers, and anything you can get away with goes." Ha! I meant to say The BANE of pool...]

Bambu
08-09-2008, 08:01 AM
"I'm 44 years old and I treat myself like an athlete. I work hard to stay in shape. Then I'm punished by slow, lethargic players who take 40 strokes, powder their hands, take 20 more strokes, then get up and take a sip of water! You think that helps sell the game?"


Not long ago, strickland and robles played together on a world team that represented the USA. Might have been the mosconi cup, but anyway: During the introductions before the match, tapes of older matches were being shown on screen. One of the matches happened to be of earl losing a match to someone(I forget his name). So earl didnt like the match being shown, and proceeded to have another classic hissy fit. Yes, during international competition in another country. And, I am positive this is a true story.

So robles happens to be a guy whose style says he should take what some would call "excessive warm up strokes" during a match. Earl shoots much faster than Tony, but I know who I would choose to "help sell the game."

BCA Master Instr
08-09-2008, 11:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I played in a tournament last night and there was a local Brunswick dealer and a cue maker whe claimed to have helped write the Texas Express rules into the BCA rule book there. Man, did those two guys detest Earl!

But I think Earl is right in most of his criticisms of how pool is presented to the public and how there is a need for standardized conditions (not just standard rules of play and equipment) like for lighting, foot surface, and fan seating/behavior for tournaments.

I also think he is right about having a shot clock. Here is what he said in a 2006 interview:

"I'm not going to watch a guy labor over four balls that are hangers. We should have a shot clock in every match. Make people think and shoot. In tennis you have 20 seconds to serve.

"I'm 44 years old and I treat myself like an athlete. I work hard to stay in shape. Then I'm punished by slow, lethargic players who take 40 strokes, powder their hands, take 20 more strokes, then get up and take a sip of water! You think that helps sell the game?"

He's right in my opinion. The boon of pool is that it is mostly thought of as a game in a smoke-filled room between drinking, reprobate gamblers, and anything you can get away with goes. That is quite sad because it is a great game of skill. Heck, even Texas Hold 'Em poker gets more legitimacy and air time than pool nowadays. It's not right and I believe Earl has been way ahead of the curve for a long time. I wish I had his email address to tell him so.
</div></div>

I don't remember a "cue maker" working on the Texas Express Rules.(John-Robin-Randy) I know exactly how the Tx Rules made it to the BCA Rule book....SPF=randyg

skin
08-10-2008, 01:11 PM
I don't remember a "cue maker" working on the Texas Express Rules.(John-Robin-Randy) I know exactly how the Tx Rules made it to the BCA Rule book....SPF=randyg

He seemed like a man of integrity so I may have misunderstood what he was saying about it. Wouldn't be the first time I've done that! The larger point is, however, that a lot of influential people don't like how Earl behaves and I think that hurts Earl's ability to get his points across. He has some very good ideas for increasing the popularity of pool, but he gets in his own way a lot of times.

One thing that draws kids into sports like tennis and golf is all the opportunities they have to play in organizations that their parents can support. With pool, what can a youngster do usually except pick up the game in a pool hall, often in a culture of gambling? If there were more opportunities in pool for the youth like are offered by youth sports leagues, then I think parents would support it and the game would grow very fast. It also would lose the stigmas it still has.

Rail Rat
08-10-2008, 03:59 PM
I hear ya Skin.

But I don 't think there will ever be a time when we can lose the stigma pool has in the US and Canada. You can put players in tuxedos and give it a formal air but its no use.

We still hear people jokingly say that anybody who plays pool well must have had a mispent youth. Can you imagine anyone saying that about a golfer or even a card player?

In England and Europe pool has the respect of soccer and other sports, but up here in Canada they dropped sanctioning billiards when Thorburn was caught snorting coke. All it took was some little indescretion and the do gooders came out of the wood work and killed what little success it had.

Oddly enough its the contoversial side of pool that is the only thing that seems to promote it.... For instance Minnisota Fats made pool widely known, but it was his image as a gambling hustler that drew the attention.

Earls antics make pool headlines and hes a big draw to many matches. Maybe we should incourage Earl even more until he hits the main stream media. Then he could promote himself like Minnisota fats, daring all comers on the Tonite Show to big money matches, any where, anytime...!

What a hoot that would be! And at least this time around we would have a REAL hustler doing our promoting.

If it works, what the hell.... GO Earl!

-Brad

skin
08-10-2008, 07:13 PM
I think there is a chance to mainstream the game, Brad, but it is going to be an uphill battle.

Since there is an international governing body (IBF), it is eligible to petition to be an Olympic sport. One thing, though. The IBF would have to adopt and enforce Olympic anti-doping rules and testing. Who knows if that is a tall or short order nowadays. But, being an Olympic sport would boost its legitimacy and popularity like crazy.

A good role for Earl would be on the IOC to help write the rules and make sure everything about the venue was up to snuff. I bet he'd do a great job and we would see a shot clock if he had his way.

Deeman3
08-11-2008, 07:57 AM
Yes, Randy could clear up any misunderstanding about the rules.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I think he would have noticed someone helping him!

1Time
08-15-2008, 05:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Although Earl may have some very valid points, he is the last one who should be complaining. He should be looking at his own glass house before heaving rocks at others.

Earl is the most disruptive player I have ever seen at a tournament. When he is not satified with the conditions, or anything else, he chooses to complain to everyone while his opponent is trying to take a shot. He does this over and over again at tournament after tournament. IMHO, this is his way of sharking his opponents and nothing less. When Earl starts treating his opponents with the respect they deserve, maybe we can start listening to his complaints. </div></div>
I generally don't follow what the pros do. And I have no reason to doubt your characterization of Earl's behavior. But if Earl or anyone has ideas for changes that could help the sport, then I would rather have them heard than not. And so I consider it counter-productive to squelch any such complaints. And since Earl's behavior has been such a problem, that only indicates a need for additional changes to better address them. IMO, pool has a lot of maturing to do before it could be widely perceived as a civilized prime time sport.

1Time
08-15-2008, 06:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will add this to those points. There should be more stringent specifications for pocket design and function, such that the ball does not jar easily and not drop in the pocket. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to disagree with this point. I happen to like the slight differences in table design, from different manufacturers. As a player, it forces me to adjust to these differences and I think it makes me a better player. On the pro level, they should be able to adjust to these differences. </div></div>The question is not if Rich R. or the pros like or know how to adjust to these differences. The question is what would be better for the advancement of pool.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Differences in playing conditions haven't hurt baseball or golf. Each baseball stadium is different from the next and each golf course is different. In golf, they even change the position of the holes each day of a tournament. I don't think the slight differences in tables should hurt pool. </div></div>This quote just highlights a problem with using analogies with other sports. There are lots of examples in these and other sports where specifications have been standardized for the betterment of the sport. The question is not how pool should be like other sports. The question is what changes should be made to better pool?

Rich R.
08-15-2008, 06:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will add this to those points. There should be more stringent specifications for pocket design and function, such that the ball does not jar easily and not drop in the pocket. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to disagree with this point. I happen to like the slight differences in table design, from different manufacturers. As a player, it forces me to adjust to these differences and I think it makes me a better player. On the pro level, they should be able to adjust to these differences. </div></div>The question is not if Rich R. or the pros like or know how to adjust to these differences. The question is what would be better for the advancement of pool.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Differences in playing conditions haven't hurt baseball or golf. Each baseball stadium is different from the next and each golf course is different. In golf, they even change the position of the holes each day of a tournament. I don't think the slight differences in tables should hurt pool. </div></div>This quote just highlights a problem with using analogies with other sports. There are lots of examples in these and other sports where specifications have been standardized for the betterment of the sport. The question is not how pool should be like other sports. The question is what changes should be made to better pool? </div></div>
Can you please tell us what sports have been standardized to the point where there are no variables?

In pool, you are never going to get table manufacturers to agree on the cut of pockets, the profile of cushions, etc. They all believe that their version is the best. The same is true of makers of cloth, balls, chalk, etc, etc, etc.
You will always have variables. Dealing with those variables is what determines the better players.

1Time
08-15-2008, 08:10 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you please tell us what sports have been standardized to the point where there are no variables?</div></div>If you read what I wrote, it should be clear that I have not suggested pool or any other sport would be better without variables or that this is even possible. Thus, the point of your question is entirely moot. Again, the question is what changes should be made to better pool. Add more variables? Improve standardization?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In pool, you are never going to get table manufacturers to agree on the cut of pockets, the profile of cushions, etc. They all believe that their version is the best. The same is true of makers of cloth, balls, chalk, etc, etc, etc.</div></div> Irrelevant. If the sport of pool dictates the standards, a demand is created for products that meet those standards. Manufactures supply that product or go out of business.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You will always have variables.</div></div> This is true, and it would be foolish to argue that the complete elimination of them would be possible, and I have not done so, despite your argument as if someone has.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dealing with those variables is what determines the better players. </div></div>Again, the question is not if Rich R. or the pros like or know how to adjust to these differences (or variables). And, the question is not what determines better players. The question is what would be better for the advancement of pool. Better standardization is one way to advance pool, and doing so certainly would not lessen the game's ability to determine better players, despite the implications of your claim to the contrary.

Bambu
08-15-2008, 08:36 AM
Sadly, we live in a world where "they" decide if pool should make any progress. That holds more weight than what strickland says or even does. So, the only true entity that can advance the game of pool is hollywood, and those who control the media.

These are the same people who pushed suv's on us just before the gas crunch......same ones who decided texas hold em should be an overnight sport. .....same people who decide what colors should be popular this fall......same people who decided Snoop dog, ozzy osbourne and paris hilton are the role models our children should look up to. Gee, do I want the pimp, the whore, or the guy who did so many drugs he can barely speak?

"They" dont want thinkers, and pool is definately a game that makes you think.

1Time
08-15-2008, 08:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing that draws kids into sports like tennis and golf is all the opportunities they have to play in organizations that their parents can support. With pool, what can a youngster do usually except pick up the game in a pool hall, often in a culture of gambling? If there were more opportunities in pool for the youth like are offered by youth sports leagues, then I think parents would support it and the game would grow very fast. It also would lose the stigmas it still has. </div></div>
This is very good thinking for the advancement of pool. To continue along this line, here's what I think also would be necessary for such efforts to succeed. First, there needs to be one organization that governs from the pros on down to the teenage level. As impossible as that may seem, I consider it necessary. There needs to be the perception from the teens, parents, and the public that this particular "brand" of pool is legit and separate from all other pool, a popular and beneficial product that can be enjoyed into one's maturity. National and/or international tournaments would need to be run at each level from teenager, amature, pro, or whatever. Rules, equipment, etc. would need to be very well standardized and run on 9' tables. Yep, pool is a long way from being mature enough, and I can't imagine it growing into a popular and widely accepted sport any time soon without this.

1Time
08-15-2008, 08:47 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bambu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sadly, we live in a world where "they" decide if pool should make any progress. That holds more weight than what strickland says or even does. So, the only true entity that can advance the game of pool is hollywood, and those who control the media.

These are the same people who pushed suv's on us just before the gas crunch......same ones who decided texas hold em should be an overnight sport. .....same people who decide what colors should be popular this fall......same people who decided Snoop dog, ozzy osbourne and paris hilton are the role models our children should look up to. Gee, do I want the pimp, the whore, or the guy who did so many drugs he can barely speak?

"They" dont want thinkers, and pool is definately a game that makes you think. </div></div>Gee, you're quite the victim... lol. Tell me something. Do you actually believe these things?

Bambu
08-15-2008, 09:05 AM
If youre so smart, tell me why texas hold em is more popular than pool.

1Time
08-15-2008, 09:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bambu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If youre so smart, tell me why texas hold em is more popular than pool. </div></div>Who the hell said I was smart?

Bambu
08-15-2008, 09:25 AM
I never expect people to agree with what I say. But if you dont agree, then say why instead of just being a jerk about it.

1Time
08-15-2008, 09:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bambu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never expect people to agree with what I say. But if you dont agree, then say why instead of just being a jerk about it. </div></div>Isn't here a chat forum on this site for stuff like this? Hey, we could chat it up and have a good time!

1Time
08-15-2008, 09:50 AM
Yes, I found it here: http://www.billiardsdigest.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=3&page=1.

Let me know if you would like your questions answered and I will be glad to discuss the matter with you there.

Rich R.
08-15-2008, 10:07 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1Time</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you please tell us what sports have been standardized to the point where there are no variables?</div></div>If you read what I wrote, it should be clear that I have not suggested pool or any other sport would be better without variables or that this is even possible. Thus, the point of your question is entirely moot. Again, the question is what changes should be made to better pool. Add more variables? Improve standardization?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In pool, you are never going to get table manufacturers to agree on the cut of pockets, the profile of cushions, etc. They all believe that their version is the best. The same is true of makers of cloth, balls, chalk, etc, etc, etc.</div></div> Irrelevant. If the sport of pool dictates the standards, a demand is created for products that meet those standards. Manufactures supply that product or go out of business.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You will always have variables.</div></div> This is true, and it would be foolish to argue that the complete elimination of them would be possible, and I have not done so, despite your argument as if someone has.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dealing with those variables is what determines the better players. </div></div>Again, the question is not if Rich R. or the pros like or know how to adjust to these differences (or variables). And, the question is not what determines better players. The question is what would be better for the advancement of pool. Better standardization is one way to advance pool, and doing so certainly would not lessen the game's ability to determine better players, despite the implications of your claim to the contrary. </div></div>

I don't believe my questions were moot. They are valid points.

You said, "There should be more stringent specifications for pocket design and function, such that the ball does not jar easily and not drop in the pocket."

Doesn't the act of making "more stringent specifications" in itself do away with variables?

Who should decide which pocket cut is the correct design? Should it be the players, the manufacturers or should they design a pocket that 1Time can make a ball in without jarring?

There are variables in tables, as in almost every other facet of your life. You'll just have to live with it.

MAC
08-15-2008, 10:47 AM
The main problem with pool not being recognized as well as other sports such as golf is the gambling. I personally like gambling and will bet on snail race at the drop of a hat.Its just that for pool to make it big they would have to cut that aspect out of the game and pool without gambling is like mashed potatoes without gravy.Pool just doesnt have the role models it takes to be extremely popular, no parent is going to condone there kids participating in something that gambling is linked to.I'm not saying there is no gambling in golf, we just had the Tiger boom otherwise golf wouldnt be as popular as it is now. If I got off topic I apoligize I just skimmed over a few things and responded to where I thought it was going its Friday and my attention span is short, C'mon 6 oclock so I can go home!

1Time
08-15-2008, 11:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't believe my questions were moot. They are valid points.</div></div>No, I said the point of this question is moot, "Can you please tell us what sports have been standardized to the point where there are no variables?" And, I explained why by saying, "I have not suggested pool or any other sport would be better without variables or that this is even possible."

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You said, "There should be more stringent specifications for pocket design and function, such that the ball does not jar easily and not drop in the pocket."

Doesn't the act of making "more stringent specifications" in itself do away with variables?</div></div>Of course not. Variables or differences cannot be eliminated by implementing more stringent specifications. Doing so can make these differences small enough to be virtually inconsequential, but you can never do away with all variables. There are too many and it would be too expensive to attempt. For example, how level should a pool table be? There are specifications for this, and implementing more stringent specifications regarding this would not eliminate the associated variables. The tables would not be perfectly level, without difference or variation.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who should decide which pocket cut is the correct design? Should it be the players, the manufacturers or should they design a pocket that 1Time can make a ball in without jarring?</div></div>Well, as you can see from an earlier post of mine, "First, there needs to be one organization that governs from the pros on down to the teenage level."

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are variables in tables, as in almost every other facet of your life. You'll just have to live with it. </div></div>This is not contrary to anything I've posted in this thread or to what I've previously known. And so your point here is moot as well. To explain, that doesn't mean I consider your statements to be false. To the contrary, they are in total agreement with mine, and you've made an argument here as though they are not. Hence, moot.

Rail Rat
08-16-2008, 09:58 AM
Back to topic....

This post started with Earl and his demands that pool take up stringent rules on shot clocks and other time wasting elements. Also what impact does Earl have on the game?

Earl has many valid points. He was the first to complain about the soft break and now we have the break rule.

The bottom line is pool is a game, not really a sport! There's very little physical activity required, so it will be hard to bring it into schools or any venues for young people to make as part of their growing regimen. We have soccer moms but there will never be pool moms. That's not to say we should'nt try but we need to promote it first.

We can advance it for the excitment and mental discipline required (Like Poker) and thats why I think Earl could help the games over all recognition.

In Europe they're still talking about Earl's outburst at the Cup, but over here most people never even heard of him. If we change that, we could see an interest build. I don't want Earl to be a lose cannon but I think he's the Macenroe we need. In Baseball we razz the the hitter and argue with the ump, thats the games personality. Pool has an excietment factor... it's why people watch it. As long as we keep it under proper control.

Once again I refer to Fats playing Willy. The banter, trash talk and competiveness they had back and forth worked... it gave pool a shot in the arm.

brad

Soflasnapper
08-17-2008, 02:31 PM
At least some of Earl's notions are personal prejudices that would harm the game if they were implemented.

Example, if it were up to Earl, no jump cues would be allowed. Yet I think that the public likes to see jumping, and the use of special jump cues makes that easier and so it happens more frequently (to the benefit of pool's public popularity).

Same with the lighting required for television. Earl has sensitive eyes, I've heard him say, and finds the tv lights somewhat painful or difficult to deal with. Yet televising matches (whether live or for video taping) is another thing that helps pool as a sport for the public.

Yet he's right about those players who use the dreaded 20+20 practice strokes as if they are on the stall at all times. That is a public interest killer (and even turns off dedicated fans of the game), and itself may very well be a sharking technique to throw the opponent off his timing. I'm not talking about medium slow play, ala the careful technicians of the game (Ralf Soquet, for example), but very slow play of the kind Danny Bassavich used, and which Johnny A has devolved into. Many fans who are willing to watch matches for hours find that unacceptably slow play, and I agree.

Unfortunately, I see no method for pool to achieve greater public interest, if the WPA hasn't been able to do it. That women's league has many advantages lacking on the men's side-- a uniform body of rules, some great champions with immaculate old-school manners (quiet, respectful, no bad sportsmanship as a rule, etc.), new talent coming in to shake up the top ranks, AND the only television contract to speak of. In short, they have most of the advantages that people note the men's side lacks and which are blamed for a lack of public credibility. Still, I don't see them creating widespread public interest in pool, even though they have more success than the men's side.

Rail Rat
08-17-2008, 04:29 PM
I come from a marketing background so I guess I see some things for a jaundiced view, but I know that promotion needs to be exciting, curiosity driven and most important high profile. It does'nt always take a lot of money just creative marketing.

The big events that have been tried, i.e. the Seigal/John Jones match were not publicised outside of the pool realm. Niether is the WPA. People say "well mainstream won't do anything with it because there's no interest." So you create the interest first, then they will. If a big event can be created and marketed in the mainstream it will sell on TV. If you could get a guy like Earl on ESPN primetime for example people would be curious that have never heard of him. Pool could get the curiosity factor that Fats got, but he had to go on Carson to get it.

Nobody is promoting billiards in the mainstream, either because they don't know how, or pool does'nt have the motivation or the daring to do it. If a pool event hired first class PR and stayed away from insider consultants, I know it would work, poker did it, UFC did it and with the right ideas and management, pool can do it.