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View Full Version : Have Vivian's Antics Gone Too Far - Opinions?



08-10-2002, 02:55 PM
Did anyone watch the BCA finals this afternoon between Karen and Vivian? Vivian has always really loved to play up to the crowd with her dramatics - and has developed many loyal fans because of it. However, it seems to me she's taken her act a bit too far, and perhaps maybe this is one reason she hasn't won a tourney in 4 years.

In the TV match, anytime she missed a shot she carried on in disbelief to the cameras and was extremely slow to give way and turn over the table to her opponent. By contrast however, as soon as her opponent missed Vivian jumped up out of her chair and raced to the table - before the balls had even stopped rolling. To me, she exhibits very poor sportsmanship and lack of respect towards her opponent. She is well aware that her behavir is interpreted by many as sharking pure and simple, and IMO she should be warned by the TD. It's certainly quite obvious why she is not well received by her fellow WPBA players.

I know Vivian has her adoring fans. I guess I'm old fashioned - I personally cannot pull for someone who carries on like this. - Chris in NC

Ken
08-10-2002, 03:11 PM
Chris, I found her behavior a bit forced. The whistling nonsense tunes and her prolonged whining when she missed. I don't begrudge her showing some feeling but I think she tried too hard to try to show that she is very different foom the other players. She has a rep of showing her personality when she plays and I think she is now trying too hard to live up to that label. I think she is capable of winning any race to seven against Karen but maybe her probability of doing so is around 1:3. Perhaps she should switch and choose the other door.
KenCT

Q-guy
08-10-2002, 04:29 PM
I happened to watch that today and felt the same way. Actually she looked like a fool. You wonder what goes through their minds when they act like that. Aren't they embarrassed?

08-10-2002, 05:30 PM
While I haven't seen the match, your description, Chris, is all I need to hear.

This type of behavior is an absolute shark, and it has no place at any level of the game. Jumping out of your seat, before the balls have stopped rolling, is an especially egregious example. When you know a miss will cause your opponent to come racing out of his chair, it adds a distraction while practice-stroking a tough shot.

Staying at the table and lamenting a miss, or checking to see if you "got" your safety - these are other examples.

However, the sad reality is that most players - again, at all levels - are guilty of such behavior. If I were a tournament director, I'd stand for none of it.

- Steve Lipsky

Vapros
08-10-2002, 06:41 PM
I agree. VV was out of line today, and probably lost a lot of the fan support she has usually enjoyed. I hope she realizes what she's done. If not, someone in authority is going to have to point it out to her. Some of the announcer's comments today implied that there was even more bad behavior than we got to see. Not good.

Elvis
08-10-2002, 09:41 PM
When Vivian pointed her stick into the crowd and got on someone for waving I almost felt she was making an excuse for missing the shot. Players at that level have to block out those things. They have a tv camera guy around the table all the time. Her whistling and talking almost seemed to get in her head more than Karen's. I also agree that jumping up when Karen missed was unprofessional. I found myself rooting for Karen in the end because of all the above.

cuechick
08-10-2002, 09:52 PM
I AGREE! Embarrassing and disgraceful. She showed no class annd she when she ran out crying at the end I I felt no sympathy. I use to really admire her; but I agree she has taken this too far. I also thought her interview was embarrassing, it was just "me, me, me!!"
I have wondered how other players felt about her sharking. The whistling really got to me, I wanted to slap her.

08-11-2002, 09:36 AM
This is an interesting aspect of pool. The general consensus is that pool is a gentleman's game and should be played as such. On the other hand, the game is full of sharks and hustlers at all levels. I think that, at the professional level, more emotion would be a good thing. Pros should be able to foccus and put their opponents antics aside. In most other pro sports, talking smack is considered part of the game. For example, NFL linemen, NBA players, MLB catchers/batters all try to get into their opponents head. I'm not sure about golfers, but I'd bet it happens there too.
One of the greatest matches I've seen on television had a little of that before the match and it made the match more fun to watch. I think Charlie Williams only missed one shot that entire match, and Tony Robles may have missed two.
VV may have gone a little overboard during that match, but I'm going to be sure to catch her next televised match to see what she'll do next.

Sid_Vicious
08-11-2002, 10:28 AM
VV adds what I feel is important to the spectator sport of pool, a multimedia of a wrestling match on felt. The leap she made out of the chair on that miss made me laugh outloud. I suppose we differ entirely on this Chris(and I hope that is ok witcha'), I get bored as hell watching two snooker champs picking the racks apart on TV.

Vivian suffered for the antics this time though, and I'm pretty sure she will relive those embarrasing misses next time she thinks about showing as much of her a$$ next time. All in all I do like her showing it...sid

Sid_Vicious
08-11-2002, 10:31 AM
I will emphatically agree that the waving in the audience thing was out od bounds on Vivian's part. Her job is to tune that stuff out, that's the pro and also the gambling thing to learn. She was cheap on that shot at the audience...sid

08-11-2002, 01:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cuechick:</font><hr> I AGREE! Embarrassing and disgraceful. She showed no class annd she when she ran out crying at the end I I felt no sympathy. I use to really admire her; but I agree she has taken this too far. I also thought her interview was embarrassing, it was just "me, me, me!!"
I have wondered how other players felt about her sharking. The whistling really got to me, I wanted to slap her. <hr></blockquote>

Criticizing the girls tour now are we?What is this board coming to? /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

This style of play,she may think that it's cute but in my opinion detracts from winning ways.It's a cover for mediocrity.You don't see AF and KC putting on this type of charade.They're all business and play to win ,not playing just to appease a crowd and performing OFF the table.It's a losers mentality looking for someones approval or pats on the back imo.

On another note,are Vivian and Earl dating each other these days?BS

Harold Acosta
08-11-2002, 08:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris in NC:</font><hr> Did anyone watch the BCA finals this afternoon between Karen and Vivian? Vivian has always really loved to play up to the crowd with her dramatics - and has developed many loyal fans because of it. However, it seems to me she's taken her act a bit too far, and perhaps maybe this is one reason she hasn't won a tourney in 4 years.

In the TV match, anytime she missed a shot she carried on in disbelief to the cameras and was extremely slow to give way and turn over the table to her opponent. By contrast however, as soon as her opponent missed Vivian jumped up out of her chair and raced to the table - before the balls had even stopped rolling. To me, she exhibits very poor sportsmanship and lack of respect towards her opponent. She is well aware that her behavir is interpreted by many as sharking pure and simple, and IMO she should be warned by the TD. It's certainly quite obvious why she is not well received by her fellow WPBA players.

I know Vivian has her adoring fans. I guess I'm old fashioned - I personally cannot pull for someone who carries on like this. - Chris in NC <hr></blockquote>

Vivian did nothing wrong. She was just living her emotions at the table. She was down and practically out of the game when Karen missed. That meant she had another opportunity to change the outcome of the set. Anyone would have jumped at such an opportunity! She ultimately failed to win but that doesn't make her a bad person!

Her nickname is the "Texas Tornado" therefore she was just trying to stir things up for her opponent!

I would rather see Vivian play than see the crybaby Strickland!

08-11-2002, 11:54 PM
Why don't you get up and play her some if you are going to be so critical. Have some respect, unless you are good enough to beat her.

Vapros
08-12-2002, 12:21 AM
Baloney, pal. Nobody is criticizing her pool - just her behavior. Not the same thing at all.

Doctor_D
08-12-2002, 04:52 AM
Good morning:

Yes, I viewed the match as well and must say that Vivian's antics were definitely over the top. Is she taking lessons from Earl Stricland? God, I hope not...

Dr. D.

Wally_in_Cincy
08-12-2002, 07:22 AM
I've always enjoyed her antics to some degree but this was just a bit hard to swallow.

She played like crap and instead of facing that fact she blamed the rolls and some poor schlep in the crowd.

Last time I saw her get beat that bad on TV was against AF a couple years ago. She took her beating with class and humor that day. Remember her saying "I didn't miss a shot" with a smile on her face.

This time though she made a fool of herself. I hope she learns from her mistake.

08-12-2002, 07:42 AM

bluewolf
08-12-2002, 07:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: whitewolf:</font><hr> Have always enjoyed watching VV play, except when she jumped out of the chair. IMO, I don't think she meant to shark when she did this, this was just psyched to the max. As far as not winning a tournament in the last 4 years, she is just not as good as AF and KC. Her choke on the 9 ball was purely inexcusable. Way too much pressure as she shot way way way too fast. <hr></blockquote>

Enjoy her anctics. agree with whitewolf she is not as good and af and kc, partly because she chokes under pressure and does shoot too fast.the other two are more kool, calm and collected and able to still play their game under pressur.

bluewolf

bluewolf
08-12-2002, 08:03 AM
i find that she is a free spirit who just happens to be pretty good at pool. more traditional people have these etiquite rules in competition pool. she does not accept these rules. she is just herself. does she make mistakes?of course. does she always take responsibility for her mistakes? probably not.

but who among us never makes mistakes and always takes responsibility for their actions. it is funny how we see fault in others and often not ourselves.

i have been guilty at times of thinking the other person(s) had the problem, when the problem was me.&lt;G&gt;

bluewolf

Kato
08-12-2002, 08:03 AM
I've always enjoyed watching Vivian play. I haven't seen the match in question, hopefully I will soon. I hope VV isn't whacking out, she's alot of fun and a character I think the game needs.

Kato~~~VV fan

bluewolf
08-12-2002, 08:11 AM
'dont criticise a person until you have walked a mile in their moccasins'

gosh people have individuals styles. people have flaws and dont always act perfect. i doont always act with perfect poiseetc. 'whoever is without sin cast the first stone'

isnt it easy to sit back in your easy chair with beer and pizza and criticize someone's imperfect behavior who is on the hotseat due to it being the finals and also on tv?

bluewolf

cheesemouse
08-12-2002, 08:23 AM
I have only seen VV play on TV. The question I have is: When she plays in the early rounds does she whistle, jump from her chair, verbalize her shots and enter act with surrounding observers? Or does she do these things only when the lights go up? If she is just being herself then I would say it's OK. If it is playing to the camera then it's a no no. It takes all kinds to play this game.

=k=
08-12-2002, 08:24 AM
i enjoyed watching the match.. as sid said maybe this is what pool needs.. well to a certain degree.. she didn't get in fans face near as much as AF did to a spectatar a couple days earier.. as to taking lessons i would much rather see VV take lessons from TR =k=

PQQLK9
08-12-2002, 09:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr> I have only seen VV play on TV. The question I have is: When she plays in the early rounds does she whistle, jump from her chair, verbalize her shots and enter act with surrounding observers? Or does she do these things only when the lights go up? If she is just being herself then I would say it's OK. If it is playing to the camera then it's a no no. It takes all kinds to play this game. <hr></blockquote>

I saw her win a non TV match and she was just as animated...definately a crowd pleaser but probably annoys some...

08-12-2002, 09:48 AM
I have found that when one looks good, they have a better attitude and don't act as wierd.

Vivians face is very triangular. She should really do something with that hair. Make the part straight and lose the black roots for starters. Yikes! And she has no business wearing green tops. Who is dressing this girl? She should be wearing pastel pinks and reds.

Photo:: http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/photos/viv5.jpg

cheesemouse
08-12-2002, 10:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>I saw her win a non TV match and she was just as animated...definately a crowd pleaser but probably annoys some... <hr></blockquote>
That's good to hear PQQLK9. If she is just being herself then I would say "you go girl!!!!!!" Her opponents should be use to her style and will just have to deal with it.

Ralph S.
08-12-2002, 10:05 AM
I usually don't pop off too much, but this time I just have to. I first want to say that I am a huge VV fan. I enjoy watching her play. I did not get to see the match that is being discussed here yet, and am waiting for a re-airing. On the topic of the behavior shown by VV, I am almost certain we have all acted that way at one point in time. I know I have and will be the first to admit it. Chalk it up to a bad day or whatever. I believe all here to be honest people and that is why I am believing what others have said. Some of the responders to the initial post also criticized her play. Remember she is A FORMER NATIONAL CHAMPION and that does deserve a little respect I feel. Not to mention she has won or placed in the top tier of many big tournaments from years past to present. How many here can say that for themselves. I sure as hell can't. Some are saying she flat out choked. How many here have choked on a pressure shot before? I have. So, my point that I am wanting to make is let's be a little more honest with ourselves and quit the bashing of some one that is not here to defend themselves. I am disappointed with the way she acted. I HOLD EVERYONE THAT POSTS ON THIS BOARD IN HIGH REGUARD. So, if you are disappointed say it as such instead of making it sound like bashing. Please remember, we are all only human. We are prone to make mistakes.

Ralph S.&gt;hoping everyone here does't hate me for this post.

08-12-2002, 10:05 AM
Vivian's act is great fun for the casual spectator, Chris, but I'm tired ot it too, in good part because it's such a false front. There's nothing lively or fun about her at all; in fact, if you're not part of her circle, she won't give you the time of day and frequently comes this close to outright rudeness. It's great that a player recognizes the importance of doing more than just pocketing balls - in fact, I wish there were a male player who was Vivian's counterpart, in that regard - but if she's intelligent enough to perceive that, then she ought to be able to make herself accessible to the fans too. GF

Vapros
08-12-2002, 10:33 AM
Got to disagree with you this time, cm. 'Being yourself' is not a license to do wrong. There are limits to what is acceptable, as defined by the other people who play and those who oversee the tournaments. When you exceed the limits, you are doing wrong, and must change your ways or go on back to the house. I think she was out of line, but there's nothing wrong with you feeling otherwise.

Q-guy
08-12-2002, 10:40 AM
I think most here are able to be objective, and you don't have to be a pro yourself to have an opinion. You just call it the way you see it. In my opinion, she embarrassed herself in both her play and behavior.

08-12-2002, 10:47 AM
Unfortunately the sad truth is that the antics and disrespect shown towards her opponents goes far beyond just what we witnessed on camera in the TV match. Would bragging and taunting in public in the face of AF and KC about having just beaten them in the previous night's matches qualify as rude, obnoxious and unprofessional behavior in your book? - Chris in NC

cheesemouse
08-12-2002, 10:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Vapros:</font><hr> Got to disagree with you this time, cm. 'Being yourself' is not a license to do wrong. There are limits to what is acceptable, as defined by the other people who play and those who oversee the tournaments. When you exceed the limits, you are doing wrong, and must change your ways or go on back to the house. I think she was out of line, but there's nothing wrong with you feeling otherwise. <hr></blockquote>
I'm not being argumentative here but if her actions, personality and style are exceptable in the early rounds why are they not in the final rounds. If I'm not mistaken when your opponent has the table you are to sit in your chair until the table is yours then you are free to play the game the way you like to play it. I guess the grey area is when does the table become yours?

Wally_in_Cincy
08-12-2002, 11:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris in NC:</font><hr> Unfortunately the sad truth is that the antics and disrespect shown towards her opponents goes far beyond just what we witnessed on camera in the TV match. Would bragging and taunting in public in the face of AF and KC about having just beaten them in the previous night's matches qualify as rude, obnoxious and unprofessional behavior in your book? - Chris in NC <hr></blockquote>

She must have been feeling pretty full of herself and understandably so (that's no excuse for taunting though).

After being that high and then running into Karen's devastating safety game Sunday maybe that's why she took losing so hard. It's hard (but not impossible)to maintain your composure when you're crashing like that.

I'm usually amused by VV but this time she came off as a whiner.

Vapros
08-12-2002, 11:28 AM
Good point - but most of us have no way of knowing how she conducted herself prior to the TV show. Her behavior may, or may not, have been acceptable earlier.

Another good point was about giving up the table. I really believe Vivian crossed the line when she lay down on the table and moaned (for too long) after missing her shot. The game was still undecided at that point, and she owed KC a little more consideration and sportsmanship than that. What if Karen had then missed her shot at the 9 ball? How much could have been said about that?

Having said all that - keep posting, pal. You're generally one of the people with something to say that's worth reading. Including today's traffic.

Fred Agnir
08-12-2002, 11:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> I'm usually amused by VV but this time she came off as a whiner. <hr></blockquote>
I love VV. But when she asked the guy in the stands after an inexcusable miss, "why did you wave", I quickly changed the channel. I just didn't want to see it. I guess I was embarrassed.

These antics and these type of comments (especially when she misses and/or is losing) is not new for her, unfortunately.

Fred &lt;~~~ wishes VV didn't dog those two 9-balls against Franciska Stark a decade ago.

Barbara
08-12-2002, 12:02 PM
GF,

You're absolutely right about her demeanor towards someone outside her "circle". Last year at the Staff Party when Line was belting out some song, she turned around to a group of us and shoosed us. One of the staffers told her to go do something physically impossible, after all THEY were crashing our party!

Yep, VV is rude.

Barbara

cheesemouse
08-12-2002, 12:11 PM
Vapros,
You know what I'd like to see. The out takes from the professional golf broadcasts that showed the antics of the 20 or 30 card carrying PGA pros who are dumping it down their leg with a 78 on Friday(cut day). Fortunatly for the cash fat PGA this unsportmanlike behavior is on the cutting room floor. I know that everyone of them including the big boys have buried their putter two inches deep in the green or helicoptered that offending driver over the galleries heads into the trees and then stomped off down the fairway at some point in their careers. Pool TV coverage doesn't have the luxury of thirty camera views of thirty different players to choose from, we get our TV pool one table, one match, right now down and dirty and if one of the players makes a boo-boo there it is to see. If they had all the rounds and matches on film in the big pool tournaments I'll bet we would see the most respected gentleman/women players losing their cool....JAT

Lester
08-12-2002, 12:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr> Vapros,
You know what I'd like to see. The out takes from the professional golf broadcasts that showed the antics of the 20 or 30 card carrying PGA pros who are dumping it down their leg with a 78 on Friday(cut day). Fortunatly for the cash fat PGA this unsportmanlike behavior is on the cutting room floor. I know that everyone of them including the big boys have buried their putter two inches deep in the green or helicoptered that offending driver over the galleries heads into the trees and then stomped off down the fairway at some point in their careers. Pool TV coverage doesn't have the luxury of thirty camera views of thirty different players to choose from, we get our TV pool one table, one match, right now down and dirty and if one of the players makes a boo-boo there it is to see. If they had all the rounds and matches on film in the big pool tournaments I'll bet we would see the most respected gentleman/women players losing their cool....JAT <hr></blockquote>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;That brings up an interesting question Vapros. In most of the 9ball matches broadcast on TV, two or three of the games are edited out due to time restrictions. Someone at ESPN thought the "incident in question" important enough to leave in. Maybe they are trying to incite controversy to generate viewers. ***Lester***

08-12-2002, 02:00 PM
i'll probably get in trouble here but what else is new. i see a lot of older pro players who seem to be trapped in their own antique press releases. vivian does not get to the "show" very often anymore and she naturally feels like she needs to trot out the act that made her famous. the fact that it's strained and threadbare is of no matter since it's the only act she has and feels a lot of pressure to take advantage of the opportunity. in the past it worked and got her sponsors or ad opportunities.

look at some of the older guys who still shoot well. they all, well almost all, have the same silly haircuts they had in the 70's or 80's. still got the same old publicity fotos and still trotting out the same old act.

i see the same thing with politicians, t.v. anchors and other performers so why should pool "celebrities" be any different. a bit sad, really.

dan

PQQLK9
08-12-2002, 02:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: houstondan:</font><hr>

look at some of the older guys who still shoot well. they all, well almost all, have the same silly haircuts they had in the 70's or 80's. still got the same old publicity fotos and still trotting out the same old act.
i see the same thing with politicians, t.v. anchors and other performers so why should pool "celebrities" be any different. a bit sad, really.
dan <hr></blockquote>

those that still have hair /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif...just watched the taped match again and really have to give KC the "put up with all the crap" award...she's a class act.

Fran Crimi
08-12-2002, 02:59 PM
Chris, I didn't see the show and you may very well be right that is was a clear case of poor sportsmanship, however, before we condemn her to the dredges, I think we should consider another possibility. As I'm sure you know, (and you can confirm it with Allison), the players have often been asked by various people... WPBA Board members, the producer, etc...to show a little more 'personality' on the ESPN shows. Everyone knows Vivian to be an animated player, and I wouldn't be surprised if she was encouraged before the show to do her thing, and even kick it up a notch. It's hard to be fun-loving and funny when you're fading the likes of Karen Coor and I'm guessing Vivian may have been pumping some major adrenaline and kicked it up about 10 notches instead of one.

Ordinarily, she is really a crowd-pleaser and I think she may have put too much pressure on herself to give a good performance both on and off the table, and it all went sour on her.

Fran

08-12-2002, 03:05 PM
And then there's the matter of her finishing dead-ass last (to use an appropriate metaphor) in my WPBA Bum Analyses. That behind is such a disaster that she should apply for federal funding. GF

Fran Crimi
08-12-2002, 04:09 PM
Do I detect some judging going on here?? /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

Whew, I feel better now, George. For awhile there with your non-judging philosophy, I was starting to think I should be praying to you instead of chatting with you.

Glad to see you back on the earth plane. (Whoops...was that me judging?)

Fran

Nostroke
08-12-2002, 04:42 PM
That is't fair. Her weight is good - Far better than most males or females her age. The rest is the luck factor

As far as her antics, i think she went pretty far overboard but i wouldnt be surprised if whe was asked to "liven it up" a bit as someone suggested.

jjinfla
08-12-2002, 05:51 PM
Antics gone too far? VV is enjoying the game. She is playing to the fans and getting them into the game. They love her. And I noticed that all the seats were taken. We shouldn't criticize VV but hope we get more like her. I saw her play in person and she sure does interact with the fans. As does Scotty Townsend, and Bob Ozborn, and Buddy when he is ahead, and Ray Martin, they all work the crowd. But then, how many of you have actually paid to go watch them play? There are more important things in life to worry about than if Vivian is too animated. She was nice enough to sign a cue ball for me. Jake

08-12-2002, 11:21 PM
Well, I am ordained as you know, Fran. But all things considered, there are probably better objects for your prayers. Appreciate the thought, though - to say nothing of the reverence. GF

Elvis
08-13-2002, 12:11 AM
Wasn't this a double elimination tournament? Vivian was in the winners bracket and Karen came out of the losers bracket to play her in the finals. Shouldn't Karen have had to win twice? Was the first one not televised? Is this different from any normal double elimination? Please enlighten me..thanks

Vapros
08-13-2002, 12:29 AM
Elvis, I can't be sure about this particular tournament, but it is not unusual for even a double-elimination event to specify a single match for the championship. It would be the logical format for a tourney that is to be decided on television. As long as everybody understands about it before the tournament begins, it is not at all unfair.

The main advantage, then, in coming through the winner's bracket would be that you don't have to win as many matches to reach the finals.

bluewolf
08-13-2002, 02:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Elvis:</font><hr> Wasn't this a double elimination tournament? Vivian was in the winners bracket and Karen came out of the losers bracket to play her in the finals. Shouldn't Karen have had to win twice? Was the first one not televised? Is this different from any normal double elimination? Please enlighten me..thanks <hr></blockquote>

my husband watched it twice. not sure about the double elimination thing

bluewolf

bluewolf
08-13-2002, 02:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: George Fels:</font><hr> Well, I am ordained as you know, Fran. But all things considered, there are probably better objects for your prayers. Appreciate the thought, though - to say nothing of the reverence. GF <hr></blockquote>

OrdAINED as a minister? are you in preachermanss cppa?

bluewolf

bluewolf
08-13-2002, 04:06 AM
just keep sitting in your lazy chair, drinking your beer, eating your pizza, and being the world's greatest pool critic.

Bluewolf

Lester
08-13-2002, 05:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: George Fels:</font><hr> And then there's the matter of her finishing dead-ass last (to use an appropriate metaphor) in my WPBA Bum Analyses. That behind is such a disaster that she should apply for federal funding. GF <hr></blockquote>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I for one am glad to see the "Caliph" back in form. Thought you might be "off your feed" for a while there. You haven't mentioned AF's new and improved bum. ***Lester***

Wally_in_Cincy
08-13-2002, 08:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: PQQLK9:</font><hr> those that still have hair /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif...just watched the taped match again and really have to give KC the "put up with all the crap" award...she's a class act. <hr></blockquote>

My observation:
When Corr puts that game face on I don't think she's even paying any attention to her opponent's antics.

Sharkproof.

Vapros
08-13-2002, 10:04 AM
Wally, there's probably a lot of truth in that (to KC's credit), but VV is pretty hard to overlook when it's your turn to shoot at the 9 ball and your opponent is lying on the table.

08-13-2002, 10:52 AM
Her behavior/sporstmanship was ridiculous. Sharking - plain + simple. It shouldnt be tolerated.
A player should not approach the table until the balls have stopped rolling. Likewise, if a player misses - once the balls stop rolling - its time fot that player to take a seat.

08-13-2002, 12:49 PM
Chris,

I was there in Vegas, watching the match. I talked with several pros I know after the match, and they each said that, based on her antics, they thought Vivian didn't take the match seriously enough. They believed that it may have cost her the match.

As for whether or not that is true is hard to say. It could be that her antics actually help her, serving as a release for the pressure of playing in a finals.

I've only met and hung out with Vivian a couple of times (as part of a larger group of people), and don't know her well enough (I hardly know her at all) to say why she acts that way. It might be deliberate sharking, or it might not be. And it might hurt her game, or it might help it.

But I did take note of how almost every pro that I talked to about the match says that they think her antics cost her the match. That really stuck in my mind.

Rod
08-13-2002, 01:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Mike:</font><hr> Chris,

I was there in Vegas, watching the match. I talked with several pros I know after the match, and they each said that, based on her antics, they thought Vivian didn't take the match seriously enough. They believed that it may have cost her the match.

As for whether or not that is true is hard to say. It could be that her antics actually help her, serving as a release for the pressure of playing in a finals.

I've only met and hung out with Vivian a couple of times (as part of a larger group of people), and don't know her well enough (I hardly know her at all) to say why she acts that way. It might be deliberate sharking, or it might not be. And it might hurt her game, or it might help it.

But I did take note of how almost every pro that I talked to about the match says that they think her antics cost her the match. That really stuck in my mind. <hr></blockquote>

Mike,
I feel near the same as you. I never even considered it as a form of sharking her opponent. More likely as I observed, it hurt her. Who cares if someone runs up to the table, IMO let them run up and play fast. I know it wouldn't bother me. On the fan waving, I think a few words, when the time is right to single out an individual is ok. That happens quite a bit in Golf by some of the best, including T Woods. Vivian does not hold an exclusive in that area. lol Emotions run high during the tournament and especially in the finals. Lee Trevino once said at the British Open after being upset at a fan, something like this= "Man here I am, out here fighting for my life and this guy thinks it's a joke" very close to that effect, on national TV. It's my guess pro pool players are not in the same boat, but one that sinks much faster.

PQQLK9
08-13-2002, 02:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Mike:</font><hr> Chris,
I was there in Vegas, watching the match.<hr></blockquote>

Right after VV admonished the offending spectator, the camera panned to show a rapidly exiting tank top wearing fan ...I wonder if he was the culprit or just leaving to get a shirt.../ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

08-14-2002, 10:03 AM
Just the Universal Life Church, Wolf. Preacherman, while I don't know anything about him, is almost certainly closer to the real ecumenical thing than I am. GF

Doctor_D
08-14-2002, 10:08 AM
Good afternoon:

So good to hear from you. You and your posts have been sorely missed!!!

Dr. D.

9 Ball Girl
08-14-2002, 10:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: whitewolf:</font><hr> Her choke on the 9 ball was purely inexcusable. Way too much pressure as she shot way way way too fast. <hr></blockquote>

Pressure is right. VV hasn't been on televised matches as much as the more experienced KC. I think pressure played a part. And the whole thing about the spectator handwave when she missed a ball, I'm sorry, but if you're at that pro level, IMO, you should be able to tune stuff like that out and just be in your zone (I think I mentioned this in a post some time ago). All in all, I really do enjoy watching VV play, though.

08-21-2002, 02:47 PM
I'm sorry to take so long in responding to you, Wolf, but the answer to your question is no. I was ordained by the Universal Life Church, in return for absolutely no training whatsoever. Don't know the first thing about Preacherman, but you can safely assume that he's considerably closer to God than I will ever be. GF

heater451
08-21-2002, 03:30 PM
Here you go:

http://www.ulc.org/


I wound up part of the ULC years ago. I don't know if it's still possible, but at one time, if you signed up enough ministers under you, they would promote you to "Saint" status. I don't know if my friend ever made it. . . .



============================

08-21-2002, 04:30 PM
I agree that Karen was definitely the class act of the two. I remember seeing Vivian years ago on tv. I don't remember her getting on my nerves like she did this time. I think I liked her when I saw her on tv in the past. So I was looking forward to seeing her again.

08-21-2002, 04:34 PM
Quote:
My observation:
When Corr puts that game face on I don't think she's even paying any attention to her opponent's antics.

Sharkproof.

Wally in the Natti
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At one point in the match I noticed Vivian's action seemed to upset Karen. I believe she then almost quickly smiled. Almost a smile. I suddenly felt there was no way she would lose.

08-21-2002, 04:55 PM
Partial snip:

Have always enjoyed watching VV play, except when she jumped out of the chair. IMO, I don't think she meant to shark when she did this, this was just psyched to the max.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::

Hi Whitewolf.
I remember back in high school I would often charge or attack the table after an opponet's miss. But I never did it like she did. And she did rush to the table a few times, not just once. So I believe she was definitely intentionally doing this at least that last time.

Barbara
08-21-2002, 08:28 PM
VV reminds me of Jimmy Conners and John McEnroe of tennis. Okay, I really wasn't into tennis much, knew how to play, but not that good, but I did enjoy watching those two. Plus, Ilie Nastasie.

Now, do I see a parallel with bar players and "bangers" watching VV doing her schtick? You bet! She got an audience's attention. And once she did that, of course, they'd want to watch her for her schtick.

Here's an example of why some people love VV's stuff and when she is really funny -

One time at VF VV was playing a Saturday afternoon/night match (before I started staff). Anyway, this guy walks into the general seating area and is comfortably drunk and sits in a seat near her match. He breaks wind and is not quiet about it. VV was up at the table and looking at a shot and starts sniffing the air and turning around a "sniffing the air in disgust" type motion. After realizing the direction of the sound, and matching it to the smell. she pointed to the guy and said to the crowd (note: crowd), "This guy just farted!! This guy just farted!!". The guy in question turned beet-red and stumbled out of the arena. Everyone was in stitches and VV had the crowd with her for the rest of her match.

What would have been your reaction if you had been in the crowd?

Barbara

Doctor_D
08-22-2002, 06:17 AM
Good morning:

Sounds as if VV would do very well at many of the stand up comedy clubs here in NYC!

Dr. D.

Sid_Vicious
08-22-2002, 07:20 AM
I still contend that much of the pool on TV(spectators, those who makes sponsorship $$$) is just near chess in excitement with the current styles. I have played slow, methodical, silent players in my time and I get really flat in the fun zone. If VV happens to stir up the atmosphere, I feel that is good. This was much the norm(imo) in American pool for a long time, and the promoters at the events seem to want to hoot it up to the audience before matches. Seems like Vivian is fitting in to the script, and adding spice where it's needed...sid