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Qtec
08-13-2008, 03:35 AM
trailer (http://uncountedthemovie.com/trailer.html)

eg,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exit Poll Discrepancies in 2004

“Nearly all the experts are in agreement
that the exit polls could not have been so far
off that they gave such distorted results.

It’s far more rational to assume that
the voting process was compromised.”

Rep. John Conyers
Chair, House Judiciary Committee

For decades, exit polls have been used in democracies around the world to predict
with a high degree of accuracy the outcomes of important elections. Exit polls are
much more precise than pre-election polling in successfully predicting the outcome of
elections. This is because they are surveying voters immediately after they have cast
their ballots, rather than asking potential voters before an election who they might
support.

However, the 2004 presidential race had unprecedented variations between exit poll
results and the “reported” vote in almost all battleground states, as well as in other,
less contested states. “We’ve relied on the exit polls for many elections now; they
have a history of at least 40 years,” contends Jonathan Simon, Co-founder of the
Election Defense Alliance. “In 2004, we saw something very different. The
discrepancy between the exit polls and the ‘reported’ vote counts was off the charts.
And this was a new phenomenon.”



The 2004 exit poll, commissioned by six major news organizations, showed that John
Kerry won the popular vote with about 51% of the vote. The final tally of the voting
machines showed George W. Bush with about 51% of the votes. In 10 out of 11
battleground states, the reported vote results differed significantly from what people
told exit poll interviewers. The differences ranged from 1.6% in Michigan to 9.4% in
New Hampshire. In every case, the difference favored George W. Bush. “Statistics can tell you what the chances are ... that you’d be that far off,” said Bruce O’Dell, a data analyst with the Election Defense Alliance. “It’s between astronomically impossible and ludicrously impossible. So it just didn’t happen by chance.”



Professor Steven Freeman, a statistician at the University of Pennsylvania, did an
in-depth study of the 2004 exit polls. His conclusions are presented in his
groundbreaking academic report, “The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy.”
http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf/Documents/ExitPoll.pdf

Jonathan Simon of the Election Defense Alliance analyzed the 2004 exit polls and vote
count data and concluded that John Kerry won the 2004 popular vote:
http://freepress.org/images/departments/PopularVotePaper181_1.pdf
</div></div>

has McCain already won?

Q

wolfdancer
08-13-2008, 10:38 AM
has McCain already won?
We won't know until the votes have been recounted

Deeman3
08-13-2008, 10:51 AM
I just want Diebold and 9 judges....

Wally_in_Cincy
08-13-2008, 11:04 AM
It's a fact that almost all vote fraud is perpetrated by Democrats.

Did it ever occur to you that people might lie to exit pollsters?

And how many people are involved in this conspiracy and how do they keep it under wraps?

One more thing, Conyers is a buffoon. For fututre credibility you should leave his comments off the table.

wolfdancer
08-13-2008, 11:31 AM
If we accept your assessment of Rep. Convers as true, wouldn't you also need to impugn O'dell, Simon and Freeman to discredit their findings...oh, and some accepted sampling math which allows for a percentage of errors?????

Qtec
08-13-2008, 11:32 AM
What about
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Professor Steven Freeman, a statistician at the University of Pennsylvania, did an
in-depth study of the 2004 exit polls. His conclusions are presented in his
groundbreaking academic report, “The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy.” </div></div>

He concludes,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Summary and Implications

In this report, I have: (1) documented that, in general, exit poll data are sound, (2) <u>demonstrated that it is exceedingly unlikely that the deviations between exit poll predictions and vote tallies in the three critical battleground states could have occurred strictly by chance or random error,</u> and (3) explained why explanations for the discrepancy thus far provided are inadequate. </div></div>

Q

eg8r
08-13-2008, 11:39 AM
I don't think McCain will win, but I am positive there will be a large group of people that state, even though they have no way to prove it, they were unable to vote due to force or the police stopping them for speeding, etc.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
08-13-2008, 02:10 PM
And don't be surprised if Obama is leading in the polls and loses. It's called the Wilder Effect".

Wilder Effect (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/national/stories/DN-whitevoters_13pol.ART.State.Edition1.4dc368c.html)

People lie to pollsters.

Bobbyrx
08-13-2008, 02:24 PM
From the article Wally posted: "In this year's Democratic primaries, exit polls in 28 states overstated Mr. Obama's actual share of the final vote." That darn Bush is even cheating the Dems in their own primaries.............

wolfdancer
08-13-2008, 02:25 PM
I had to read up, Google, the Wilder effect.
Then reading a little further....it seems that the % of black voters in the area affects that effect, or it's reverse:
"After the Super Tuesday elections of February 5, political science researchers from the University of Washington found trends suggesting the possibility that with regard to Obama, the effect's presence or absence may be dependent on the percentage of the electorate that is black. The researchers noted that to that point in the election season, opinion polls taken just prior to an election tended to overestimate Obama in states with a black population below eight percent, to track him within the polls' margins of error in states with a black population between ten and twenty percent, and to underestimate him in states with a black population exceeding twenty-five percent. The first finding suggested the possibility of the Bradley effect, while the last finding suggested the possibility of a "reverse" Bradley effect in which black voters might have been reluctant to declare to pollsters their support for Obama. By comparison, with only one exception, in each state with inaccurate opinion polls for the Democratic contest involving Obama, those same polls accurately predicted the outcome of that state's Republican contest, featuring only white candidates."

As Deeman noted...it's all really dependent on the Diebold machines......eventually, we will not have to bother voting, it'll be up to the machines to decide which candidate they prefer
...ya know, just like in the last Presidential election.

Qtec
08-13-2008, 02:57 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think McCain will win, but I am positive there will be a large group of people that state, even though they have no way to prove it, they were unable to vote due to force or the police stopping them for speeding, etc.

eg8r </div></div>

You are SO uninformed. link (http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6252)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This story is unfrickin'-believable. Or maybe it isn't. It took place in Thor Hearne country, after all. And though she didn't get arrested and thrown in jail, a similar incident happened to the Missouri Secretary of State during the 2006 election.

A voter in Kansas City on Tuesday --- one I happen to know, because he's an Election Integrity advocate in the Show Me State --- was arrested and sent to jail after he refused to show a driver's license at the polling place before attempting to vote during the state's Primary Election.

The voter is Phil Lindsey of ShowMeTheVote.org and he posted the details of his harrowing tale over at DemocraticUnderground.com, where he posts as "galloglas," after being released on Tuesday night.

The charge on the citation: "Did knowingly cause a disturbance/disorderly conduct to wit: acts in a violent or tumultuous manner toward another, placing such person(s) in fear of safety by refusing to show proper I.D. when voting".

He told me, via email late last night, that he's been in close touch with MO Secretary of State Robin Carnahan following the incident, and that both local media and folks such as nationally syndicated radio host Thom Hartmann have been in touch with him since the story broke last night. He was surprised, but pleased, that the incident has received so much coverage already. [UPDATE: Local Fox affiliate now covering here, for example.]

Never mind that requiring a voter to show a driver's license in MO before he or she can vote was found unconstitutional in 2006. Never mind that he showed the pollworkers a perfectly legal and proper precinct-issued voter ID card when he went to vote. Never mind that he had even called to check with the local Board of Elections before going to vote, to make sure that the ID would be acceptable. Never mind that he even brought a copy of the MO law to show the pollworkers who had demanded a driver's license (much as they had done, illegally, in a previous election he'd voted in).

The cops were called, and he ended up going to jail anyway. The charge on the citation: "Did knowingly cause a disturbance/disorderly conduct to wit: acts in a violent or tumultuous manner toward another, placing such person(s) in fear of safety by refusing to show proper I. D. when voting"... </div></div> the story (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3735725&mesg_id=3737989)

Q

eg8r
08-13-2008, 03:03 PM
I am not uninformed. I was referring to the black community that said they were forcefully kept from the voting booths. A few people were on the news stating they were pulled over for speeding by "white" cops who did not want them to vote (later proven a lie). All you have to go on is what you can find on the net. I actually got to live through it. Just because you spend hours on end googling your "news" and "facts" does not make you informed.

eg8r

wolfdancer
08-13-2008, 03:07 PM
Just because you spend hours on end googling your "news" and "facts" does not make you informed.

Uh, what would you suggest then....Fox ?????

eg8r
08-13-2008, 03:08 PM
Please don't ask what someone suggests if you don't really want to know the answer.

eg8r

wolfdancer
08-13-2008, 03:41 PM
you should reread your post...you knock Q for reading and checking out stories......(the truth hurts; doesn't fit your facts, maybe?)
And you make another wild supposition with this post....
I think your numbers have gone way down lately...you're losing your readership, as your old time fans scratch their heads and think (Huh?)

eg8r
08-14-2008, 08:52 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you should reread your post...you knock Q for reading and checking out stories......(the truth hurts; doesn't fit your facts, maybe?)
</div></div>Let me post a portion of my post for you to see if breaking it out on its own is easier for you to read...<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All you have to go on is what you can find on the net. I actually got to live through it. </div></div>
eg8r

Gayle in MD
08-14-2008, 09:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a fact that almost all vote fraud is perpetrated by Democrats.
</div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">Almost all? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif, that's a good one. Almost all of it has been committed by Republicans these last three elections. I think you're a little off with your broad reaching statement. Prove it! </span>



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more thing, Conyers is a buffoon. For fututre credibility you should leave his comments off the table.
</div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">That's pretty funny coming from a man who voted twice for the worst president in history, and then believed all his lies, and still does, to this day! Dare we say it, Wally? You've lost credibility on your political opinions of who is a baffoon!

Gayle in Md.</span>

Gayle in MD
08-14-2008, 09:13 AM
And saw the whole thing through your own beedy little partisan eyes, no doubt!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

wolfdancer
08-14-2008, 10:20 AM
Ed, I'm sorry that you didn't get to vote...but not to worry....the Diebold machine with it's built in anti-algorerythm, took that into
consideration, and counted your no vote twice for Mr. B

Qtec
08-14-2008, 10:24 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not uninformed. I was referring to the black community that said they were forcefully kept from the voting booths. A few people were on the news stating they were pulled over for speeding by "white" cops who did not want them to vote (later proven a lie). All you have to go on is what you can find on the net. I actually got to live through it. Just because you spend hours on end googling your "news" and "facts" does not make you informed.

eg8r </div></div>

How long did you have to wait to cast your vote?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Tanya Thivener's is a tale of two voting precincts in Franklin County. In her city neighborhood, which is vastly Democratic and majority black, the 38-year-old mortgage broker found a line snaking out of the precinct door.

She stood in line for four hours -- one hour in the rain -- and watched dozens of potential voters mutter in disgust and walk away without casting a ballot. Afterward, Thivener hopped in her car and drove to her mother's house, in the vastly Republican and majority white suburb of Harrisburg. How long, she asked, did it take her to vote?

Fifteen minutes, her mother replied. </div></div>

How about what happened in Florida.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The group prevented from voting has few defenders in either party: felons. It has been well reported that Florida denies its nearly half a million former convicts the right to vote. However, the media have completely missed the fact that Florida's own courts have repeatedly told the Governor he may not take away the civil rights of Florida citizens who committed crimes in other states, served their time and had their rights restored by those states.

People from other states who have arrived in Florida with a felony conviction in their past number "clearly over 50,000 and likely over 100,000," says criminal demographics expert Jeffrey Manza of Northwestern University. Manza estimates that 80 percent arrive with voting rights intact, which they do not forfeit by relocating to Florida.

Nevertheless, agencies controlled by Harris and Bush ordered county officials to reject attempts by these eligible voters to register, while, publicly, the governor's office states that it adheres to court rulings not to obstruct these ex-offenders in the exercise of their civil rights. Further, with the aid of a Republican-tied database firm, Harris's office used sophisticated computer programs to hunt those felons eligible to vote and ordered them thrown off the voter registries.

After reviewing The Nation's findings, voter demographics authority David Bositis concluded that the purge-and-block program was "a patently obvious technique to discriminate against black voters." Bositis, senior research associate at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies in Washington, DC, notes that based on nationwide conviction rates, African-Americans would account for 46 percent of the ex-felon group wrongly disfranchised. Corroborating Bositis's estimate, the Hillsborough County elections supervisor found that 54 percent of the voters targeted by the "scrub" are African-American, in a county where blacks make up 11 percent of the voting population. </div></div>

Q

Wally_in_Cincy
08-14-2008, 10:42 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a fact that almost all vote fraud is perpetrated by Democrats.
</div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">Almost all? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif, that's a good one. Almost all of it has been committed by Republicans these last three elections. I think you're a little off with your broad reaching statement. Prove it! </span>



</div></div>

Can Q (or any of the other whiners from the Left) prove what he alleges in the original post?

I can give you plenty of anecdotes but what's the point. You would just put the blinders on. And I would not need to go back to LBJ's Senate election or the goings-on in Chicago in the Nixon-Kennedy election. There is plenty since then.

Gayle in MD
08-14-2008, 10:54 AM
I saw the investigation on this little Harris scam, live. She had the guy who did it, do all the talking. They used such methods as not checking the names of people according to age, and innitials, for example, so that many who weren't even felons, were turned away from the voting locations.

For example, if there was a Leroy Brown who was a felon, they turned away all the Leroy Brown's. They didn't check age, innitials, or addresses to discriminate between the felons, and others whose names were the same, who weren't even felons.

Some predictions were that over twenty thousand legal voters were purged. Some estimated many many more than that!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

However things got so screwed up, it was obvious who was out to prevent the counting of the vote, and also obvious that the Supreme Court broke with the Constitution, blocking the State Supreme court from having the right to do as they had voted, and recount the votes in order to get little Bushy in, and hence, the SC stated that what they did was not to be used for precedent in the future! No wonder Scalia doesn't like discussing this unprecedented move, and answers the questions about it with, "Get over it" The same mantra of the neoconned.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
08-14-2008, 10:55 AM
If you have no proof, just say so. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Gayle in MD
08-14-2008, 10:57 AM
LOL, Yeah, we can all trust anything that came out of a Nixon campaign!

BWA HA HA HA....

eg8r
08-14-2008, 11:00 AM
In reference to the Florida votes, you got me, we would not let criminals vote. While at the same time, the Dems were blocking our soldiers from casting their votes.

eg8r

wolfdancer
08-14-2008, 11:02 AM
whatever happened in 1960, or in the days of Boss Tweed, Huey Long,James Michael Curly, etc....doesn't justify the alleged voter fraud in the last two elections....but that's just my opinion.
I don't think who has the greater guilt is as important as the fraud taking place.

wolfdancer
08-14-2008, 11:05 AM
If you have no proof, just say so
that seems to be what passes for proof here lately
"I said so"
Say this new software we have is great....I think the anti-virus feature destroyed the lww "worm"

Wally_in_Cincy
08-14-2008, 11:12 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have no proof, just say so. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif </div></div>

Like I said I could dig up plenty of anecdotal evidence (do you know what that means?). I really don't have time right now. I need to work to support the parasites of society.

Tell me this. When states pass laws requiring proof of identity to vote, why is it the Left that fights it tooth and nail?

Once again, let Q (or anybody) prove there was fraud in FL in 2000 or OH in 2004 and I will "prove" that more voter fraud is perpetrated by the Dems.

Wally_in_Cincy
08-14-2008, 11:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, Yeah, we can all trust anything that came out of a Nixon campaign!

BWA HA HA HA.... </div></div>

Go ahead and make a fool of yourself Gayle. It's common knowledge that the state of Illinois went to Kennedy due to voter fraud in Chicago. Nixon knew it but for the sake of the country he conceded rather than pull an "Al Gore maneuver".

Gayle in MD
08-14-2008, 10:07 PM
I personally wouldn't waste my time trying to prove anything to you. I find your critical thinking processes flawed in general.

The reason why Democratics are against the voter Id is because they know that it would prohibit more of their supporters, than of the Republicans, which is precisely why Repiglicans want it in the first place.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tell me this. When states pass laws requiring proof of identity to vote, why is it the Left that fights it tooth and nail?
</div></div>

Tell me this, when Florida's Supreme Court decided to recount the vote, why did The Supreme Court take away the state's rights, in order to appoint George Bush President, when Al Gore won the popular vote? Who jammed the phone lines in Ohio, and who went to jail for jamming them, and then wrote a book about how to throw elections, and all his work for the Republican operatives?

I think Q has provided us with some very good proof already. I've read quite a number of studies on the Republican election fraud in Florida and Ohio, in two different elections, and already have enough proof to satisfy me. However, even voter fraud won't help the Repiglicans this time. We've all seen what happens to this country when they're running the show,.... well, most of us, without the blinders.

Gayle in Md.

mike60
08-15-2008, 02:13 AM
Wally, et al, This is so unreal. Republican disruption of the vote count in Miami 2000 debacle is just one prime example. If you believe the Democratic Party is more
bent than the Republican Party we have nothing to discuss. You're an idiot. This isn't a smear it's a definition. Save the noise there is no defense for your condition.
You are a complete waste of time. Be gone fool.......

as if... but we may wish......

mniguel

Wally_in_Cincy
08-15-2008, 06:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are a complete waste of time. Be gone fool.......

</div></div>

I will leave at the time of my choosing. But thanks for your concern.