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KellyStick
08-17-2008, 06:10 PM
I was playing APA the other night and this 5 I was playing got up and was getting ready to rack as I was addressing a long 8 ball shot on an oversized 8 foot table. I stopped and asked him if he was "conceding the game". He didn't understand the word so I asked "are you giving me the shot?" He said "no". So I said then "go sit back down". Which is what he was doing before he approached the table while I was shooting. He was a bit perplexed by this and sorta backed off a little. He seemed to be a bit bent outa shape as well and started talking about how he did this in vegas and it was not rule a violation and blah blah blah... smack talk... etc... And yeah I took second in this masssive tournament yaddah yaddah.... Blah blah blah.

I made my 8 ball after ejecting all mental thought of his existence from my mind and we continued playing.

Ok so I have to be honest I thought the guy was a major jerk mostly because of his mouth. And his dad's mouth too which were both yapping most of the game. Maybe it was a tag team event I dunno. They are both pretty much blow hards.

But. When you are shooting the 8 ball what is the rule or perhaps the proper etiquette (sp?) that you all follow. To me approaching the table and getting close, as if to rack, is sharking. I think it's wrong but don't beleive there is an actual rule about it. Especially in APA. I told him to go sit down but don't really have any authority for that.

How do you all handle this? What rules do apply if any?

Coroner
08-17-2008, 06:47 PM
Hey KellyStick, good question.

I play 8-all in the APA as well. I've had a few guys do what you mention above, usually SL5's and SL6's. I don't think there is a specific rule about it, except the general 'sportsmanship' rule. If a guy does this when I'm shooting I just stand up and stare at him until he decides to sit back down. I just won't address the cue ball until he sits down or pulls balls out of the pocket and concedes the game. My opponent usually gets the point prettty quickly and I don't mention it again. IMO, it's sharking and any player above SL3 should know it.

The other night a SL5 told me I didn't have to mark the 8-ball because it was an easy shot. I asked him if he was conceding the game and he said no, so I marked the pocket before shooting. I was afraid he might call me on it (as if he didn't say anything to me).

I do two things which I think is the correct etiqutte - I either sit quietly in my chair or I announce 'That's good' in a loud and clear voice (no mumbling here) and start pulling balls out of the pockets. I will also get out of my seat if I think I am in the line of my opponent's shot, (before he gets down on his shot) it's just the right thing to do. The ONLY move I make while waiting my turn is to drink my soda or put my cue in it's holder. BTW, I figured this etiquette out in maybe my second or third week in the APA, so there really is no excuse for not knowing any better.

Rich R.
08-17-2008, 07:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KellyStick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But. When you are shooting the 8 ball what is the rule or perhaps the proper etiquette (sp?) that you all follow. To me approaching the table and getting close, as if to rack, is sharking. I think it's wrong but don't beleive there is an actual rule about it. Especially in APA. I told him to go sit down but don't really have any authority for that.

How do you all handle this? What rules do apply if any? </div></div>

I'm not sure what rules apply, if any, but IMHO it is a sharking move and it should come under the rules of unsportsmanlike conduct.
Whether the rules say anything or not, you did the right thing by telling the guy to sit down. If your turn at the table has not been completed, he has no business approaching the table, unless he is giving you the game.

Rich R.
08-17-2008, 07:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Coroner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey KellyStick, good question.

I play 8-all in the APA as well. I've had a few guys do what you mention above, usually SL5's and SL6's. I don't think there is a specific rule about it, except the general 'sportsmanship' rule. If a guy does this when I'm shooting I just stand up and stare at him until he decides to sit back down. I just won't address the cue ball until he sits down or pulls balls out of the pocket and concedes the game. My opponent usually gets the point prettty quickly and I don't mention it again. IMO, it's sharking and any player above SL3 should know it.

<span style="color: #FF0000">You could always hand the guy the rack and see what he says. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif </span>

The other night a SL5 told me I didn't have to mark the 8-ball because it was an easy shot. I asked him if he was conceding the game and he said no, so I marked the pocket before shooting. I was afraid he might call me on it (as if he didn't say anything to me).

<span style="color: #FF0000">IIRC, about a year ago, the APA changed their rules and marking the pocket is no longer required. However, I still think marking the pocket is the best policy. It avoids any confusion. </span>

I do two things which I think is the correct etiqutte - I either sit quietly in my chair or I announce 'That's good' in a loud and clear voice (no mumbling here) and start pulling balls out of the pockets. I will also get out of my seat if I think I am in the line of my opponent's shot, (before he gets down on his shot) it's just the right thing to do. The ONLY move I make while waiting my turn is to drink my soda or put my cue in it's holder. BTW, I figured this etiquette out in maybe my second or third week in the APA, so there really is no excuse for not knowing any better. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">IIRC, the APA discourages the conceding of games. I know players do it all of the time, but it is not good idea. Any shot, no matter how easy, can be missed.</span>

Fenwick
08-17-2008, 08:35 PM
Pardon me if I steal your thunder for a bit. Your post struck a sore nerve. It's as stated sharking pure and simple. You did the right thing telling him to have a seat. I play a guy who likes to get in my eye all the time if he'd down points. He will stand by the table while I'm trying to pocket my last ball to get shapes on the break ball. He will move his chair into my line of sight during the match? One end of the table to the other during a run. I know we should focus on the task at hand but how do you block out a 6'4", 250 pound shark. I have been weighing my options with my sharker. At this time I just avoid him and his child like actions. I simply refuse to play him for now saying I'm waiting for someone else and I can always find another game and do. You didn't have that option. My question is how to deal with him, my shark the next time we do play. Stoop to his level or tell him to hit the road until he grows up? I have no problem with either road but given the choice I would chose the high road. I'm at that point in life where I've burned so many bridges 1 more is no big deal if my hand is forced. On the other hand I'd like to think I've moved on and grown up and life is too short. Maybe the next time he changes chairs while I'm at the table I'll ask if he has ants in his pants or if he needs to go pee pee. Depends?

mike60
08-17-2008, 11:10 PM
You have grown up and life is too short to put up with known sharks.

Let them swim away.

mike

JJFSTAR
08-18-2008, 09:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Any shot, no matter how easy, can be missed.</div></div>

That depends on your skill level. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Coroner the game needs more players like you.

Fenwick tell your shark that you know he's sharking (donít use that word) and that you donít appreciate it. Stewing about it makes him very successful.

SpiderMan
08-18-2008, 09:46 AM
Your opponent was being an ass and a jerk, and he does it because he has learned over the years that "sometimes" his opponent will let up and miss when he uses these tactics. In other words, it's cheating and should not be tolerated. It's best to call him on it, every time, and do it loudly enough to embarass him (if he is capable of that emotion).

Get your team captains involved. In APA, make it clear that the "sportsmanship point" will be denied if the behavior recurs after one warning. Follow through on this threat. If they retaliate by denying your team the point as well, this should be immediately reported to the league operator.

I used to play pool at lunch, across the street from where I worked. Often there was a car salesman who came in and challenged me. I enjoyed playing him, because he could really shoot, but he had this annoying habit of standing by the table when I was on my last ball or two. He would reach into a nearby pocket and pull the balls, "getting ready to rack".

I cured him of that habit. When he put his hand into a pocket to pull balls, I also reached into the nearest pocket and pulled a few. Then I rolled them down the table, disturbing the lay of whatever remained, and waited for him to rack. He got the message.

BTW, all this sharking philosophy applies to regular white guys, but be aware that there are certain ethnic groups for whom this behavior seems culturally acceptable. In particular, Filipinos and Mexicans often crowd the table and jabber when one another are shooting, so I tend to cut those guys a little more slack in the beginning. But, if they don't respect my wishes after a few polite requests, then I refuse to play until they back off.

SpiderMan

Chopstick
08-18-2008, 09:49 AM
There is a specific rule about it. In the General Rules of Pocket Billiards:

3.41 INTERFERENCE
If the non-shooting player distracts his opponent or interferes with his play, he has fouled. If a player shoots out of turn, or moves any ball except during his inning, it is considered to be interference.

This is not included in the APA rule set, but is it also not included the the rule sets of the games themsleves, yet they still apply and there is nothing in the APA rule set that states that the General Rules of Pocket Billiards do not apply.

Now, that having been said. If see anything in the room besides the ball you are aiming at, then you need to work on your concentration. If I am shooting on a game ball, they're dead and there is nothing they can do to save themselves. They only dishonor themselves for trying.

In any case, you should never let your opponent know that they have affected you. If you do, you give them a handle with which to grasp you. When you project yourself to your opponent, give them nothing. Stone, dark, implacable, unchanging, hardness. It is not only polite, it is fearsome.

Chopstick
08-18-2008, 10:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SpiderMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your opponent was being an ass and a jerk, and he does it because he has learned over the years that "sometimes" his opponent will let up and miss when he uses these tactics. In other words, it's cheating and should not be tolerated. It's best to call him on it, every time, and do it loudly enough to embarass him (if he is capable of that emotion).

Get your team captains involved. In APA, make it clear that the "sportsmanship point" will be denied if the behavior recurs after one warning. Follow through on this threat. If they retaliate by denying your team the point as well, this should be immediately reported to the league operator.

I used to play pool at lunch, across the street from where I worked. Often there was a car salesman who came in and challenged me. I enjoyed playing him, because he could really shoot, but he had this annoying habit of standing by the table when I was on my last ball or two. He would reach into a nearby pocket and pull the balls, "getting ready to rack".

I cured him of that habit. When he put his hand into a pocket to pull balls, I also reached into the nearest pocket and pulled a few. Then I rolled them down the table, disturbing the lay of whatever remained, and waited for him to rack. He got the message.

BTW, all this sharking philosophy applies to regular white guys, but be aware that there are certain ethnic groups for whom this behavior seems culturally acceptable. In particular, Filipinos and Mexicans often crowd the table and jabber when one another are shooting, so I tend to cut those guys a little more slack in the beginning. But, if they don't respect my wishes after a few polite requests, then I refuse to play until they back off.

SpiderMan </div></div>

Hey man, didn't realize you were in here. I've had guys reach in the pocket too. I did the same thing. I am even more strict. If they touch the table in any way even put their hand on the rail, that's game.

In regards to your cultural statement, I have observed this as well. I played in a pool room in Atlanta that was all chinese and Vietnamese. I soon came to realize that their definition of personal space is different than ours. For us it is 3 or 4 feet. For them it is inches. To have someone standing a few inches away while you are shooting was normal for them. I got used to it. In the long run I think it did me some good. For a while there it was almost impossible to shark me. I've even had a woman flop her boobs down on the table and say today's my birthday. I didn't care. I just shot the balls off. She said I can't believe you just shot those balls off that way. I told her it's my birthday too. Now, let's talk about that present you brought me. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

wolfdancer
08-18-2008, 02:36 PM
In the USPPA, the rule is...you get out of your chair when the other guy is shooting...you lose the game.

Rich R.
08-19-2008, 07:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJFSTAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Any shot, no matter how easy, can be missed.</div></div>

That depends on your skill level. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif </div></div>

Skill level doesn't matter. I have seen pros take a shot for granted and miss. Any shot can be missed, if not given the proper respect.

Rich R.
08-19-2008, 07:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the USPPA, the rule is...you get out of your chair when the other guy is shooting...you lose the game.
</div></div>
That is an excellent rule. I wish the pool world, as a whole, would adopt that rule.

KellyStick
08-20-2008, 11:16 AM
I never concede. I always make everyone shoot. But this is particularly annoying when sandbaggers do it. I had a guy who was sandbagging so bad that he couldn't wait to lose and I think he didn't want me scratching on the 8 or extending the game further after he'd gotten his needed innings in. Thanks for the thoughts. I'll put it under the sportsman ship rule.

I was not aware that APA had taken the mark your pocket requirement away?

PRQL8R
08-20-2008, 12:58 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never concede. I always make everyone shoot.</div></div>

I totally agree... it's the final shot, always with some sense of pressure and everyone should have to earn it. I've seen guys miss theis sort of shot simply because they were insulted and upset that it wasn't just given to them... and then they didn't properly focus on it /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif I never take offence at being expected to shoot every shot. ...Bob

Sid_Vicious
08-20-2008, 01:19 PM
I'm sorry, but that marking the pocket thing seems silly to me. What real purpose does it serve? You just called all of your other balls, what's the deal with sitting a cell phone or car keys by a pocket on the 8-ball! Maybe it's an old bar rule-set had me down, but it just don't fit within organized pool in my way of thinking.

As far as never conceding, I deem it respect to concede unless the rules prohibit it. Sure I've seen gimmes missed, but I don't play so intense that I lose sight of the general importance of human interaction outside of winning and losing...sid

New2Pool
08-20-2008, 05:01 PM
I don't see football teams conceding the PAT when other team has just scored but still needs the point after to tie or win the game. Will the kicker probably hit the PAT? Sure, but he might miss so go ahead and give him the chance.

Why should pool be different?

Rich R.
08-20-2008, 07:23 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KellyStick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was not aware that APA had taken the mark your pocket requirement away? </div></div>
IIRC, the national APA organization said it is no longer necessary. Local league operators may still require it in their areas.

KellyStick
08-20-2008, 07:27 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PRQL8R</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never concede. I always make everyone shoot.</div></div>

I totally agree... it's the final shot, always with some sense of pressure and everyone should have to earn it. I've seen guys miss theis sort of shot simply because they were insulted and upset that it wasn't just given to them... and then they didn't properly focus on it /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif I never take offence at being expected to shoot every shot. ...Bob
</div></div>

Sid, when I run the balls to the eight I don't want someone to concede. I want to shoot the 8 for victory. I earned it. A victory I worked for and won. It may be an easy shot but that is probably because I made it so due to skill. TO concede and take away the final moment by slapping the 8 ball in before I shoot it is wrong to me. I don't get all bent outa shape when it happens but I still feel slighted. Let me finish what I started according to the rules of the game and according to what I created to be able to get there. It's a small thing granted but in this life the simple pleasures are often the best.

KellyStick
08-20-2008, 07:28 PM
Oops, my reply with Quote was a bit messed up with the wrong quote. Sorry.

Rich R.
08-20-2008, 07:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sorry, but that marking the pocket thing seems silly to me. What real purpose does it serve? You just called all of your other balls, what's the deal with sitting a cell phone or car keys by a pocket on the 8-ball! Maybe it's an old bar rule-set had me down, but it just don't fit within organized pool in my way of thinking.

<span style="color: #FF0000">In the APA, all shots are not called. Only the 8-ball is called. I have seen some players just waive their cue to call the pocket and you never know exactly which pocket is being called. By marking the pocket, it removes all doubt and you know exactly what pocket has been called. </span>

As far as never conceding, I deem it respect to concede unless the rules prohibit it. Sure I've seen gimmes missed, but I don't play so intense that I lose sight of the general importance of human interaction outside of winning and losing...sid </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">I concede my share of shots and some have been conceded to me, but I don't see any issue of respect involved. The rules of the game say that you have to pocket the ball to win. I never assume that I won't have to shoot the last ball. In anything other than a friendly game, I see nothing wrong with making your opponent shoot. </span>

Tom_In_Cincy
08-29-2008, 04:35 PM
Wolfdancer...
According to the USPPA website, in one place the 3 foul rule is in effect and in another place it has been eliminated. There is no 8 ball rules.
check this out. http://usppa.com/rules.htm
It says under Texas Express rules....
and then it refers to the BCA rules which are currently the World standard rules.

no where I could find where you lose the game if you are not in your chair.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the USPPA, the rule is...you get out of your chair when the other guy is shooting...you lose the game.
</div></div>

av84fun
08-31-2008, 11:59 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJFSTAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Any shot, no matter how easy, can be missed.</div></div>

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>That depends on your skill level.</span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Coroner the game needs more players like you.

Fenwick tell your shark that you know he's sharking (donít use that word) and that you donít appreciate it. Stewing about it makes him very successful. </div></div>

You included a grin emoticon so I assume you were being funny. We have all seen champions miss shots so easy that APA 2s would have no trouble with them.

In a TV match between Django and JJ recently, they both dogged SIMPLE shots on the 8 ball...in the same rack!!

Then, to redeem themselves in the next rack they put on a 15 inning safety duel that was one of the greatests I've ever seen.

Regards,
Jim

wolfdancer
09-01-2008, 02:41 PM
Tom, it's been several years since I ran USPPA tournaments, and I'm not sure now if that was our "house" rule, or.....I'm remembering incorrectly......we may even have just called it a foul???
I'm of the opinion though, that you sit down in a designated chair until it's your inning to shoot...or you are sharking..

av84fun
09-01-2008, 03:12 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tom, it's been several years since I ran USPPA tournaments, and I'm not sure now if that was our "house" rule, or.....I'm remembering incorrectly......we may even have just called it a foul???
I'm of the opinion though, that you sit down in a designated chair until it's your inning to shoot...or you are sharking.. </div></div>

In general, I agree with you. However, in amateur and regional tour events, the player seating is often very close to the tables. In such circumstances, if my opponent has a shot where he is sighting directly at me, I will get up and move off to the side, just so I can't be accused of sharking with a body movement.

In a TV match, I saw Johnny Archer move over to his opponent's chair for the same reason...but usually in such matches, the player chairs are far enough away that they are not in the shooters focus so they remain seated.

Regards,
Jim

Sid_Vicious
09-04-2008, 03:07 PM
"By marking the pocket, it removes all doubt and you know exactly what pocket has been called."


Truthfully, I have never played APA, and I understand now that you don't call pockets in general in APA, then it makes perfect sense to mark the 8. My recent experience in a TAP league is that it is an option for the opponent to say you have to mark. I'll re-phrase my statement, "In call-pocket for all balls during 8B games, it is silly, even unsportsmanlike to alter a player's stride with the mark." APA and "not all shots are called" is obviously one format I'll not have any interest in.

In APA, are there called safeties, and BIH, or are those features left out of the rules set as well? Just asking for future reference. Thanks...sid

Rich R.
09-04-2008, 07:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In APA, are there called safeties, and BIH, or are those features left out of the rules set as well? Just asking for future reference. Thanks...sid </div></div>
In the APA, safeties, aka defensive shots, are played, but they do not have to be called ahead of time. They are recorded on the score sheets for handicap calculation purposes.
Also, in the APA, if you scratch or have a bad hit, your opponent gets BIH.
Actually, the only major difference between TAP and APA is the calling of every shot. With most players, that is not a factor most of the time, as it is clear what shot they are taking. It is only a factor when a player misses the intended shot and it happens to drop in another pocket, which doesn't happen too often.
APA is not as bad as some people would have you believe. Many of the people who complain the most have never played in the APA.

Sid_Vicious
09-04-2008, 08:03 PM
"In the APA, safeties, aka defensive shots, are played, but they do not have to be called ahead of time."

Can you call safe, intentionally make one of your balls and make the other player shoot? I'll assume not since no safeties have to be called. True?

Also another question, do you establish a suit if a OB drops on the break or is the table open. I appreciate your patience Friend...sid

Rich R.
09-05-2008, 06:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you call safe, intentionally make one of your balls and make the other player shoot? I'll assume not since no safeties have to be called. True?

<span style="color: #FF0000">In the APA 8-ball, if a ball is leagally pocketed, you continue to shoot. As you assumed, you cannot call a safe, pocket a ball and make the other player shoot. It is more like 9-ball, where, if you leagally pocket a ball you continue to shoot. </span>

Also another question, do you establish a suit if a OB drops on the break or is the table open. I appreciate your patience Friend...sid </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">In APA 8-ball, if you make a ball on the break, you establish the suit. The table is no longer open. If you make one or more balls from each suit, the table is still open. If you scratch on the break, the table is open regardless of balls made on the break.

Sid, ask all of the questions you want. I don't have all of the answers, but I have some of them. I'll do my best to answer your questions and, if I can't answer, maybe someone else can. </span>

New2Pool
09-05-2008, 07:39 AM
One other difference in APA 8-ball vs. the World Standardized rules is scratching when the 8 is your only ball left is loss of game in APA. Failing to hit the 8-ball or a rail is a BIH foul and not loss of game in both though.

I have not been able to locate the rules for racking in APA 8-ball though. I had assumed it was like the World Standardized Rules but during our team practice this week I was told the only requirement in APA is a solid for the head ball and the 8-ball in the middle of the third row. I would assume my team members are correct since they have been playing for a while but it seems odd racking is not in the rules.

MAC
09-05-2008, 10:14 AM
In APA it doesnt matter how the balls are racked as the long as the 8ball is in the middle that is the only requirement.You dont even have to put a solid in the front. I know some players who will purposly put a odd ball like the 2 or somthing else dark so they cant see it for the break, which makes no sense to me cause a bad break isnt good for anyone.

SpiderMan
09-05-2008, 03:55 PM
Safeties in APA are often played, but never called. Because any pocketed ball counts, if you accidentally pocket a ball while playing defense, you must continue shooting.

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
09-05-2008, 04:01 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In APA it doesnt matter how the balls are racked as the long as the 8ball is in the middle that is the only requirement.</div></div>

If that is true, it's a new development. When I last played APA, the two balls behind the 8-ball had to be from different groups. Contrast this with "world standardized" (formerly BCA) rules, where the two balls behind the 8 didn't matter, but the two rear corner balls had to be from different groups.

Since I once played in both leagues, I just got into the habit of always racking with opposing groups behind the 8 (satisfying APA) as well as opposing groups on the rear corners (satisfying BCA).

SpiderMan

Rich R.
09-05-2008, 05:42 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SpiderMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In APA it doesnt matter how the balls are racked as the long as the 8ball is in the middle that is the only requirement.</div></div>

If that is true, it's a new development. When I last played APA, the two balls behind the 8-ball had to be from different groups. Contrast this with "world standardized" (formerly BCA) rules, where the two balls behind the 8 didn't matter, but the two rear corner balls had to be from different groups.

Since I once played in both leagues, I just got into the habit of always racking with opposing groups behind the 8 (satisfying APA) as well as opposing groups on the rear corners (satisfying BCA).

SpiderMan </div></div>

I just checked the APA rules on line and they only state to put the front ball on the spot and the 8 ball in the center. They make no mention of the specific placement of any other balls.
http://www.poolplayers.com/8-9-ball-Rules.pdf

I like to put the 1 ball in front, followed by one solid and one striped ball in the second row. Continue to alternate down each side and you will get one of each suit in the bottom corners. You will also have to place two balls from the same suit together in the back row, but that is not bad.

This way of racking is recommended on one of Jimmy Reed's videos and it provides a good spread of both suits on the table.