PDA

View Full Version : Lowering the drinking age?



sack316
08-19-2008, 10:45 PM
seems like a good topic we have yet to discuss here, anytime recently at least. What are y'alls thoughts on the matter, and why?

I guess for me personally... well I probably haven't cared that much since I was 20 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif But I do tend think if you are old enough to fight a die for your country, then you ought to be allowed the choice. But then the other side of me sees these kids now, as it is, and would hate to see the dumb-assery that ensues were they allowed to be tossing back a few. But then again, I suppose those that want to are doing it anyway.

Guess I'm curious as to what some of you think about this... I really can't decide what I feel is suitable. And that may be a rare thing for me /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sack

wolfdancer
08-19-2008, 11:32 PM
I caught part, but not all of a report that said many College Heads were for lowering the drinking age to 18, to cut down on binge drinking that occurs in the dorms.
In NYS we were able to legally drink at 18, and began our training for this around age 16....
We might have abused alcohol, but nobody did drugs then.
Tough question...if I remember correctly alcohol related auto fatalities are a significant percentage of under 21 deaths.

sack316
08-19-2008, 11:55 PM
I think the college heads may be for it, but not quite as much for the "binge drinking" reasons they say. I think they are looking to maybe have a little less liability and a lot less babysitting to do.

And I think you are correct about the auto fatalities stuff.

Sack

Gayle in MD
08-20-2008, 05:41 AM
In many Italian families small children are given small amounts of alsochol, red wine, with meals, as young children. I was one of those. No eyebrows would have lifted if I, or one of my cousins, had sipped from an adults glass of red wine, and infact, we likely would have heard a parent say, "Have a bit more, it's good for your blood" with a big smile on their face.

As kids, red wine was readily available, and alcohol no big deal. We weren't that crazy about the taste of it anyway. No mystique prevailed.

I often heard my dad comment, at weddings and such, when offered another drink, "No thanks, I don't want to feel bad tomorrow." I never saw him drunk in my life, because he never drank to get drunk. We don't teach our kids how to drink, nor do we set the right examples. I often offer my grand daughter a sip of wine. She usually says, Yuk! I think we should be more concerned about raising the age for a drivers permit, and sending the correct messages about alcohol in general.

Gayle in Md.

Wally_in_Cincy
08-20-2008, 06:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I do tend think if you are old enough to fight a die for your country, then you ought to be allowed the choice. </div></div>

That's always been the argument and it is very hard to disagree with. Imagine back in the 60's, you could be drafted, sent to Vietnam and die but you were not even allowed to vote. That was a true outrage.

When the age was 18 back in the early 80's I doubt there were any more young problem drinkers than there are now. If you want to be a drunk it does not matter what age you are, you can get it somewhere.

Maybe they should start with allowing 18-20 year olds to buy beer and wine but not hard liquor and see what happens. That might be a good compromise.

BTW we can thank Elizabeth Dole, as Transportation Secretary under Reagan for forcing this law on the States, instead of letting each state decide for themselves. Some supposed Conservative she is.

P.S. I agree with Gayle.

hondo
08-20-2008, 07:10 AM
Is drinking a beer more dangerous than fighting in Iraq?
Lower the damn drinking age.

Deeman3
08-20-2008, 07:19 AM
My children grew up in Europe and were able to drink with us in all situations. I think that is why they never had the binge drinking period that others do even when they returned here to attend university. Of course, they only drank at meals and a very small amount then.

Vapros
08-20-2008, 07:30 AM
Given the fact that such a tremendous percentage of traffic deaths are alcohol-related, and given the fact that the drunk often takes out one or more non-drinkers with him when he goes, I find it pretty weird that so much effort is made toward abolition of smoking, and virtually none toward drinking. I've never been a drinker, altho I am an ex-smoker, but I find it hard as hell to follow the logic of the people who defend alcohol. There's so much that could be done. IMO, a DUI conviction should cost the perp about half a month's pay, plus whatever else. Today, they pay the fine and drive on. In today's Baton Rouge Morning Advocate the list includes a fifth-offender, a fourth offender and a third offender.

I am a lot more afraid of second-hand alcohol than smoke.

sack316
08-20-2008, 07:30 AM
Gayle, the scenario with you as a child and the way you handled it with your children actually sounds quite alright. I guess the key is "responsible parents", though, that are able to set that good example and give qualified information in an open discussion with their children. Because (you know my history) my time in rehab and AA, many of the stories consisted of "getting started" as a youth under parental supervision. That was not the case for me, and of course it is not an automatic trigger for developing alcohol abuse problems... but at the same time the number of people with such stories were hard to ignore as well.

But then again, I've always thought to myself that when I have a young'n... as they get older I'd probably allow them to do so to an extent at home. I know how kids are, and I know one way or another they will eventually be exposed and offered it at some point before it is legal to do so. I'd rather them be comfortable enough around me to talk about things such as this, so that it may be my experience and knowledge being passed on to them, rather than that of a fellow teenager /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

I also sometimes think of times at the bars, both where I worked at and frequented, where 18 was allowed entry but 21 was required to drink. And a lot of problems came from the 18-20 sect. Even though I am still fairly young, I don't recall a great difference in my own maturity level between when I was 18 compared to when I turned 21. But there may well have been.

The more I think about it, the more I think maybe they should go ahead and drop the age limit. I don't know if I like it personally, but at 18 you are free to be an adult, free to serve, free to enter the real world outside of your parent's responsibilities, free to vote, etc. As I ponder the issue, it seems we allow every other major adult decision to be made by an 18 year old. Maybe we should allow that one too.

If they are to do so, do we also drop the legal age to smoke? Here it is 19. But if an 18 year old is allowed to legally enter a bar which is smoking, it sure would be a lot of trouble on the bar to keep an eye out on what patrons are in that one year window. I know that's drifting towards another topic entirely, but it's an issue that's sure to come up if the drinking age does get lowered.

Sack

eg8r
08-20-2008, 09:03 AM
I am on the fence, however the reason for this subject I think is lazy adminstrators. The University administrators want to lower the drinking age so they don't have to police underage drinking. What a cop out.

For me personally, I don't care either way.

eg8r

Chopstick
08-20-2008, 09:04 AM
How did Tim Wilson put it? You can blow up a bar in Baghdad just don't order a rum and coke cause that's illegal. That whole 18 vs 21 thing is just plain silly. Some people never get old enough to drink. Others can do it just fine. If a guy's a drunk jackass at 18 he's gonna be one 21. The opposite is also true. There's no magic transformation that occurs between 18 and 21 that is going to make a person a more responsible drinker.

There should be one legal age for everything and that age should be when your brain has reached it's mature size. Drinking when your brain is still growing can seriously screw up your development. After that it's OK for some. For some it will never be OK.

eg8r
08-20-2008, 09:08 AM
I definitely agree about raising the driving age. I also believe that if the driving age is not raised, then minors who are driving should be treated as adults if they hurt or kill another person while operating the vehicle.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
08-20-2008, 09:13 AM
I think the whole first year after you get your license you should not be allowed to drive with anyone else in the car, other then if your parents are along.

eg8r
08-20-2008, 09:18 AM
I can already see the battles I am going to have when my kids get to that age. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

eg8r

Gayle in MD
08-20-2008, 09:25 AM
Just lay out the groundwork, early, long before they are teens. No license until you graduate high school, and only then on certain conditions.

You may have to do a lot of chauffeuring, but it's worth the trouble.

Wally_in_Cincy
08-20-2008, 09:42 AM
When I was 16 most kids wanted their license not only for the freedom but also so they could work. Seems to me not as many of the youth are actuallly working these days.

I don't know if it's necessary to raise the driving age but they should tell these punks right out of the box that there will be zero tolerance for excessive speeding and reckless driving. Y'all have seen how some of them drive. They are the ones that end up getting a full facial from a telephone pole.

I would like to see the cops concentrate more on keeping them in line, rather than giving folks a ticket for going 43 in a 35.

Chopstick
08-20-2008, 10:50 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wally_in_Cincy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I was 16 most kids wanted their license not only for the freedom but also so they could work. Seems to me not as many of the youth are actuallly working these days.

I don't know if it's necessary to raise the driving age but they should tell these punks right out of the box that there will be zero tolerance for excessive speeding and reckless driving. Y'all have seen how some of them drive. They are the ones that end up getting a full facial from a telephone pole.

I would like to see the cops concentrate more on keeping them in line, rather than giving folks a ticket for going 43 in a 35. </div></div>

I think we should do away with all traffic fines. Any traffic offence should begin with a minimum of 2 hours in jail and go up from there.

Come on. These are not traffic "accidents" happening out there. It's rampant egocentric stupidity and it kills more people every year than the entire Viet Nam conflict. Yes, a million people running around with automatic weapons and explosives trying to kill each other as fast as they can, anyway they can, could not do what we do every single year with our cars and our attitudes.

Every 415 seconds a motor vehicle is stuck by a train. In all cases the signalling devices are present and functional. What is that? It's a freaking train. Did it sneak up on 'em with the flashing lights and bells and bars coming down?

Stupid is not an "accident" and we should stop treating it like it is. You screw up in traffic, you go to jail, your car is impounded, and you go to training to earn it back. D is not a passing grade. You get an A or a B or they keep your car.

Does this seem harsh? If you get caught doing wrong in your boat in a Florida waterway they will not only take your boat, they will go to the boat ramp and take your car too. And they won't make it easy to get them back.

I had a buddy buy a used boat and take it straight down to Tampa bay and put it in. He went out there, lost power and got caught in a current. When the Coast Guard rolled up on him he was outside the boat in the water holding his boat from crashing up against some rocks. No anchor, no life jackets, no anything the law requires you to have in a boat. He got $9,000 in fines.

Sid_Vicious
08-20-2008, 11:33 AM
That's a damn good idea Gayle. I'd like to see the stats on how many first accidents involve a car loaded up with a brand new driver and their friends riding along, opposed to "driver only." sid

Gayle in MD
08-20-2008, 11:43 AM
<span style="color: #000066">No question. Guess there no money in it! </span>

Sid_Vicious
08-20-2008, 11:54 AM
On the drinking age being 18...anyone with an idea of drinking then, will do it anyway, but likely be a binge drinker. The mystique of slipping past a package store clerk by looking older, or faking an ID, simply enhances the experience. Once you make it less thrilling and more commonplace, lots of potential early alcohol abuse might be curbed. Besides, Sid would like to see a boost in the ratio of women to men in the clubs jump up with the additional 18-20yr old females. Maybe the under 21 males should still be restricted(just kidding.) "young stuff" is just eye candy for this old crusty fart, but hey, I live on cheap thrills ;-) sid

Deeman3
08-20-2008, 12:48 PM
Sid, leave those 18 year old girls alone. They have laws against child endangement as well as a couple for elder abuse. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sid_Vicious
08-20-2008, 01:06 PM
Hey! 9-to-90, crippled, cross-eyed or blind. I ain't passin' nuthin' up. The one you pass up, you never catch up on again ;-) sid~~~knows it'd probably kill him if he got that lucky even once

Gayle in MD
08-20-2008, 01:14 PM
hey Sid,
I hear that the only industry that gained lots of money after the rebate checks went out, was the internet porn sights!

OMG! I wonder if that's true! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

sack316
08-20-2008, 09:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hey Sid,
I hear that the only industry that gained lots of money after the rebate checks went out, was the internet porn sights!

OMG! I wonder if that's true! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif </div></div>

I know I did my part /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Sack

Sid_Vicious
08-21-2008, 11:39 AM
Always will be sadly. Maybe I just found me a passive income after retirement, thanks for the idea Gayle. Frankly though, that industry of the internet has, and is, a cash king. I am not decatent enough to join in until I change from an Independent to a Republican, OUCH! sid

wolfdancer
08-21-2008, 11:44 AM
of course it's true....
porn (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5430343841227974645)

SpiderMan
08-21-2008, 03:59 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe I just found me a passive income after retirement, thanks for the idea Gayle. Frankly though, that industry of the internet has, and is, a cash king. </div></div>

Warn me if you decide to be a porn star - I'll get my own parental watchdog software to make sure I don't accidentally find your site /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

Gayle, on the other hand ....... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

SpiderMan

Chopstick
08-21-2008, 04:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey! 9-to-90, crippled, cross-eyed or blind. I ain't passin' nuthin' up. The one you pass up, you never catch up on again ;-) sid~~~knows it'd probably kill him if he got that lucky even once

</div></div>

Like Sydney once told me, "Grass on the infield?...Play Ball!" /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif