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DeadCrab
08-20-2008, 07:54 AM
Any opinions on the advantages/disadvantages of controlling cue ball speed by these stroke techniques:

a) Same stroke length for each shot, speed of grip hand coming forward determines cue ball speed.

b) Variable stroke length. Slow shots are accomplished with a shorter stroke. Faster shots use a longer stroke. The back hand acts a a true pendulum, i.e. constant acceleration with the cue velocity determined by the distance over which acceleration occurs.

Scott Lee
08-20-2008, 08:12 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DeadCrab</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Any opinions on the advantages/disadvantages of controlling cue ball speed by these stroke techniques:

a) Same stroke length for each shot, speed of grip hand coming forward determines cue ball speed.

b) Variable stroke length. Slow shots are accomplished with a shorter stroke. Faster shots use a longer stroke. The back hand acts a a true pendulum, i.e. constant acceleration with the cue velocity determined by the distance over which acceleration occurs. </div></div>

"A" is a much more consistent way of delivering the cue. However, the 'bold' portion of "B" should be added onto "A"...with the exception, that cue velocity is determined by the strokespeed of the forearm. The key is to learn your individual range of motion, for your pendulum swing, and use it, in it's entirety MOST of the time. You almost always use the whole length of your swing. You learn how to accelerate the cuestick at different speeds, to your natural finish position.

Scott Lee

DeadCrab
08-20-2008, 08:21 AM
As a follow-up, should the length of the stroke essentially equal the bridge distance?

I see a lot of good players pull the ferrule all the way back to the bridge point on the back-stroke.

My stroke length is shorter than my 11" bridge. Does this mean I should shorten the bridge distance, lengthen the stroke, or leave it alone?

JJFSTAR
08-20-2008, 09:14 AM
As far as the length of stroke goes I use my long stroke if I am trying to be accurate, a medium stroke if the shots are all easy and I am trying to maintain my “inner rhythm” and my short stroke if the shot will not permit either of those without fouling. I use the longest stroke that the shot will permit 99% of the time and believe that to be almost all players best bet on almost any given shot because for me long stroke = better accuracy.

As far as the bridge hand goes. I think for most of us we started out with our bridge hand too close and our grip hand back too far and gradually adjusted the grip and bridge to our specific comfort level.

I suppose if I wanted to determine if something in my technique were a liability or an asset I would go to my drills and test it. My bridge hand varies a bit depending on the shot. Just off the top of my head I would think that length from CB should be shot and player specific i.e. those Philippine players really are way back compared to their European counterparts but both do quite well.

I think I will do some testing I have been using the open bridge more and more as of late so I am also in a transition phase in my technique. I have spent the least time with my bridge hand. I have spent really all my time over the last 10 years on everything else. Stance, back arm, eye focus, pre-shot routine etc… I have always done “whatever feels right” I suppose it is because I have seen anything and everything with little exception work in terms of the bridge hand.

Good thread Deadcrab I bet I am going to learn something here.

Bob_Jewett
08-20-2008, 10:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DeadCrab</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ... The back hand acts a a true pendulum, i.e. constant acceleration with the cue velocity determined by the distance over which acceleration occurs. </div></div>
A small technical nit here: A true pendulum does not have constant acceleration during the stroke; it has zero acceleration at the bottom of the arc.

One accelerometer measurement I've seen from a very good player suggests that in fact he uses constant acceleration over the length of the swing. Unfortunately, all of the pool cue measurements I've seen are really noisy and it's hard to figure out exactly what's happening.

SpiderMan
08-20-2008, 10:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob_Jewett</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DeadCrab</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ... The back hand acts a a true pendulum, i.e. constant acceleration with the cue velocity determined by the distance over which acceleration occurs. </div></div>
A small technical nit here: A true pendulum does not have constant acceleration during the stroke; it has zero acceleration at the bottom of the arc.

One accelerometer measurement I've seen from a very good player suggests that in fact he uses constant acceleration over the length of the swing. Unfortunately, all of the pool cue measurements I've seen are really noisy and it's hard to figure out exactly what's happening. </div></div>

Bob,

Carrying this a little further, the logical question is:

Did this good player, whose acceleration was constant over his swing, also use the same magnitude of acceleration for any shot speed?

In other words, did he change only the time spent accelerating (stroke length)? Or, as favored by Scott Lee below, did he change the magnitude of this swing-constant acceleration to suit varying shot speeds?

SpiderMan

KellyStick
08-20-2008, 11:28 AM
For speed control, which is almost always critical I like and need a full stroke. It's with a full stroke that I can best feel the speed. With a short stroke there is little time to feel the speed in my way of thinking. I sometimes use a short stroke on a long and straight shot where I don't care too much about speed and don't want any anomally in my stroke to deliver the CB anywhere but precisely where it needs to be. Often you can be stretched out or I stretch out purposely to get as much rifle barrel in front of me as possible which both messes with your normal stroke and can shorten it.

I was not surprised when Scott was the first reponder to this one.

pooltchr
08-20-2008, 07:07 PM
It's impossible to say without seeing you shoot, but I would say that the odds of an 11" bridge being either necessary or desirable would be pretty slim. That seems to be very long. Most players seem to be in at around 6-8 inches for their typical bridge distance. Some shots require shorter or longer, but we are talking about average shots.
Is there some benefit you feel you get from having a bridge length that long?
Steve