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View Full Version : McCain's Insane Rhetoric Will Defeat Us, Not Them!



Gayle in MD
08-20-2008, 10:18 AM
John McCain: Recruiting for Al Qaeda? http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2008/08/18/john-mccain-recruiting-for-al-qaeda/

At the “Civil Forum” at Saddleback Church in Orange County, California this weekend, Senator John McCain (R-AZ) repeated a favorite line of his about Osama bin Laden:

If I have to follow him to the gates of hell, I will get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice. . . . No one should be allowed to take thousands of American, innocent American lives. Of course evil must be defeated . . . we are facing the transcendent challenge of the 21st century–radical Islamic extremists.

What a gift to the recruiting efforts of Al Qaeda! - to have an American presidential candidate declare himself a follower of Osama bin Laden. According to McCain, Bin Laden is so powerful that he poses a “transcendent” challenge to John McCain’s United States.

In his cogent, well-supported, and readable article, “What Terrorists Really Want,” Max Abrahms at UCLA argues that terrorists “are rational people who use terrorism primarily to develop strong affective ties with fellow terrorists.” Think of Al Qaeda as a gang that disaffected youth might join - something powerful to belong to that gives their lives meaning.

McCain’s “gates of hell” talk is leadership malpractice, and he should stop using it immediately. Calling the threat of terrorism “transcendent” is equal parts incoherent and false. Terrorism stands no chance of defeating the United States or the West unless we ourselves collapse the society. Speaking this way about terrorism thrills our terrorist enemies and draws recruits and support to them. Silence would be much better, presidential campaign or no.

I wrote here a year and a half ago about the sensible thinking of Bill Bishop, Director of the Idaho Bureau of Homeland Security. He understood that the our national ID law, the REAL ID Act, fails as a security tool. Something else about Bishop came back to me as I was recently reading Abrahms’ article: Bishop wouldn’t even speak the name of Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber. This is how he exhibited his loathing for a shameless terrorist killer, and it also happens to comport with sensible counter-terrorism.

Exalting terrorism - as John McCain does with his “gates of hell” talk - is precisely the wrong thing for a national leader to do. The country will be made more secure by deflating the world image of Osama bin Laden and making his movement less attractive. Our leaders must withdraw rhetorical power from terrorists by controlling their tongues.


<span style="color: #000066">Here is a good example of why I have to vote for Obama. As I have stated many times, Bush's policies, which we can see will be the same as McCain's, exacerbate ALL of our problems with terrorists, and the Russions.

For all the stupid people, YES stupid, who were impressed with the statements made by John McCain at Saddleback, read some history books, for the love of Pete! Remember Vietnam! Another stupid war that we should have stayed the hell out of.

These dangerous policies of agression must be stopped. It is insanity to buy this crap that Obama displayed weakness, just because he recognizes the severity, and depth of our circumstances. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif </span>

sack316
08-20-2008, 08:07 PM
Well the writer of this article made the comparison of terrorist groups with gangs. So I'll go with that viewpoint for the sake of argument here.

So the general idea, then, should be let's just shut up and ignore it and it will all go away. That's what I take out of it at least. So then let's ask areas with high gang activity what they would prefer: for news coverage of their situation and police at least attempting to gain control, or if they would rather everyone to just ignore it all and hope they get bored and go away. That doesn't even work with schoolyard bullies.

I do understand the premise of the article. He's also saying that by giving quotes such as that we are playing right into what THEY want... which is bad. But also by that same reasoning, we should go back to all our old security measures also. Afterall, making us change our comfy little lives the way we had to was also part of what THEY wanted. I'm sure THEY would also love for their world image to be deflated as well. Much easier to fly under the radar (so to speak) that way. They don't need us talking about them to gain recruits... all they need is like minded people with a common goal, which is something they have always had. Shutting our mouths and ears will not stop them. I'm not claiming we've done a wonderful job as is, either... but I don't think Osama will be sitting in a cave one day going "Gee, they don't talk about me anymore. Where's the love? Guess I'll have to move onto something else."

Sack

Gayle in MD
08-21-2008, 01:14 PM
Sack,
Did you ever hear the story of the little boy who cried wolf?

Did you read the report from our own 16 National Intelligence Agencies.

Have you ever know someone who lied so much that they didn't exist for you anymore?

Ever noticed where the mouthy guy in the group, ends up after his friends up in a fight because his big mouth and cocky attitude starts trouble?

I have been thoroughly disgusted with Bush and McCain over their blustering, saber rattling, threats and insults throughout these last almost eight years.

We are under no circumstances correct to project an Imperialistic, dictatorial attitude, replete with insulting language, to the rest of the world.

I don't call that good foreign policies. I dont' call that leadership. A leader saves such tactics for times when the wolf is actually crashing through the door.

Bush's policies have played right into the wishes of al Qaeda, Iran, and Russia, at the least.

He has greatly damaged our National Security, with his blustering and saber rattling, and pre-emptive war, torture, and lack of human decency. McCain will be more of the same.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in Md.

sack316
08-21-2008, 01:23 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">to the rest of the world.

</div></div>

And if he was saying this about Canada I would agree. But these comments were about terrorists, and pertain to the areas in which they are. I don't see how that takes the attitude you speak of to "the rest of the world". It places that attitude directly towards where it belongs.

Sack

DickLeonard
08-22-2008, 11:57 AM
Gayle thank you for your straight shooting/thinking/. Georgie boy has Fooked up this world with his with his big Stick. We mjght lose the whole world to Russia and China. He has made us as weak as tea and Putin knows it.

He can take back all the breakwaay countries but wwe don't have to worry GWB looked Putin in the EYE and ne didn't see a KGB man and Putin saw an Idiot.####

wolfdancer
08-22-2008, 11:59 AM
GWB looked Putin in the EYE and ne didn't see a KGB man and Putin saw an Idiot.####
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif....way I hears it, Bush blinked first

wolfdancer
08-22-2008, 12:02 PM
If I have to follow him to the gates of hell,
At least McCain knows where he will end up...and hope he ain't surprised to see GWB, and Cheney down there as well....and Nixon, Agnew,etc, etc....
(the place might look like a Republican convention)

Sid_Vicious
08-22-2008, 12:11 PM
"Bush's policies have played right into the wishes of al Qaeda, Iran, and Russia,"

AND WONDER THE REASON??? The chimp has sold us out for the so-called New World Order. Our pres is a puppet...sid

Gayle in MD
08-23-2008, 09:26 AM
BWA HA HA HA HA!!! Ya did it again! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Gayle in MD
08-23-2008, 09:30 AM
So right you are. The Russians, the Neocons, China, India, Iran the Talliban and Al Qaeda, all on the rise, while America has been sliding for eight years!

Funny how the right never mentions Bush's redistribution of American wealth among the Arab countries, Russia, and Iraq, don't you think.

The Neo-con agenda that the neo-conned don't get!

Qtec
08-23-2008, 11:12 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Osama bin Laden</div></div> Who? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

I would suggest to McCain to try 'smokin him out'- just like you would do with an "Armadilla".

Q........no Rep Pres will ever catch OBL. They don't want to. Why kill the bogey man.

sack316
08-23-2008, 11:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Why kill the bogey man. </div></div>

ha! the bogey man... because he's always in a sand trap! I get it /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Sack---randomly silly right now

Gayle in MD
08-24-2008, 09:07 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gayle thank you for your straight shooting/thinking/. <span style="color: #000066">You're welcome. And thank you for being an ally in reality! </span> Georgie boy has Fooked up this world with his with his big Stick. We mjght lose the whole world to Russia and China. He has made us as weak as tea and Putin knows it.

<span style="color: #000066">No doubt! If he diesn't get us all blown up before we get rid of him, it'll be a miracle! </span>

He can take back all the breakwaay countries but wwe don't have to worry GWB looked Putin in the EYE and ne didn't see a KGB man and Putin saw an Idiot.#### /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
</div></div>

sack316
08-24-2008, 09:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DickLeonard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We mjght lose the whole world to Russia and China. He has made us as weak as tea and Putin knows it.
</div></div>

The thought that the "whole world" is ours to lose to the likes of other countries is thinking that could do more damage that GW could ever do himself.

But the rest of your post wasn't so bad.

Sack

Gayle in MD
08-24-2008, 09:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The thought that the "whole world" is ours to lose to the likes of other countries is thinking that could do more damage that GW could ever do himself.


<span style="color: #000066">Actually that was GW's agenda. The neocon "New World Order" was all about dominance in the world. </span>
</div></div>

<span style="color: #000066">I think Dick was talking about international influence, our problems with our debts, falling dollar value, and overall bad economy and the problem of our dependency on foreign oil, as much as aything else.

</span>

Gayle in Md.